Hello all.
There are a number of you out there who have been following my story not only over the past few months, but for the past few years. Although the ups and downs of this rollercoaster ride are often seemingly unbearable, I have always managed to bounce back and tackle the situation from a new angle. I(t has mainly been attributed to all the help I have received here + the amount of reading I have down on the subject.)<p>Over the past few days I am really starting to consider if it is even worth it? Over my years of learning more about about the dynamics of M, plus experiencing how people in different countries attack the same problems (especially here in Sweden), I'm beginning to give up hope on any resolution to my situation besides D. As I have stated recently, I am not sure of the present A status of my WW. All the signs seem to be pointing in that negative direction, but I have been quite hestitant to snoop any harder, from the lessons of the past. With this uncertainty & previous betrayal, does one just say, enough is enough? At this stage I feel that whatever choice I make it will just helping her get the life that she is seeking--with little regard to my happiness. Do I change the rules of the game?<p>As many of you know I am from the US but living in Sweden (where WW is from). Because this is not home and not the greatest place on earth to live, I have the option of packing up everything and heading back stateside. This would also mean, leaving the kids here. <p>Has anyone been in a similar circumstance? I rally feel that if I keep at this too much longer, there won't be any feelings left for my W; also I feel that if she is still on the Divorce path, that I must ultimately relocate myself in a more familiar and supportive environment (unfortuately many thousands of miles away) where I can thrive also as an individual.<p>OK, I'm rambling...<p>Any ideas, experiences, slaps in the face?<p>Sweden

Hi Sweden,<p>I don't know your complete story but I can understand the feelings you have.
I myself am from Canada and I live in Germany.
Even thought I have lived here for many, many years I was thinking the same thing when I found out about my H affair.<p>I actually had planned to leave Germany and start a new life in Canada. I would of left my children and started a complete new "unknown" life!!!
I was actually on the phone already making plans for my flight. I was serious about this. <p>Things just came different in my situation. My H realized how serious I was and asked me to think it over again and if I would be willing to hang up the phone instead of booking a flight or if we could first talk before I did book a flight.<p>I know I would of done it if he hadn't of stopped me. I wouldn't of been able to get over this being here. The only thing that really would of made this step very difficult for me was my children.<p>But since I knew that they were old enough and well taken cared of, I had to think of my needs and my life. Might sound very center-minded but this is what my thoughts were.<p>hugs
BB

BB,
Thanks for the reply! It's nice to know that the situation I'm in and the feelings I'm having are not unique. <p>Would you say this was the event that made your WH really stand up and take notice that this was serious? I DON'T want to use my leaving as a threat to her in any way, but I also feel that I'm being used in the present situation. It's really a tough call here, but then again, it isn't me that wants out of the relationship...<p>I've also noticed that in the recent past with my threats to relocate back to the US, that this issue has really made her nervous. She sought my assurances that I wouldn't move about a month back, but now come these urges within me again.<p>
Sweden

Sweden:<p>It's hard to relate to your situation with young kids involved. I know I would have had a tough time with that if I had known about my W's first A, which started when my son was only 3. But even at that time (and now) my choices don't involve moving away more than about 500 miles, if I were to do that. So, again it's hard to relate to your sitch.<p>It sounds like your W wants her cake and the frosting as well here. If she didn't love you, why would she care if you came back to the US? But then, you need to decide whether staying together, when your LB$ is this low will work for you either.<p>Hang in there. I hope others can give you more useful advice than I can.

2Long,
There's the little slap in the face I'm lookin' for! Thank you!
Yes, the thought of this does scare me, but at the same time, maybe it is a road to ultimately get everything I want--everyone together, living in the US. Big gamble... At this point I think she feels if I move back stateside that the kids will suffer, not her. Least that what she makes me want me to feel. <p>I've spent some time today reading about how time, care, understanding and persistance are the key to the situation. I've also read how setting some tangible bounds to the situation is the key. Which is the path for me?<p>You know enough about the dilemmas that I am currently facing; how would you approach our couseling session next Tuesday? <p>Sweden

Hm...<p>Try telling the MC your concerns about your LB$ running dry, and ask for suggestions to get the ball rolling?

That may be something for the IC, which is on Friday.
But would you go into the session letting W know that "walking" (moving back) is still a viable option? Or would you just keep your yap shut? <p>Sweden

Sweden:<p>I've DONE stuff like that in our MC sessions. But you're right. Our MC basically tells me to keep my yap shut! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Actually, you're also right in that you should tell your IC this stuff. The MC will want to make sure you're both on the same page, so these kinds of things don't make positive headway in that situation. In my case, we're not in the same book, so MC sessions are usually pretty frustrating for me.

Our MC sort of sits there and pokes at my W to make her say something. If it was somebody besides me sitting in the other chair, I'd laugh!
All-in-all though, she (MC) is not very insightful. Most of the couseling session focuses on if my WW has made a decision on staying with our M. This time it seems that she has, and she wants out of it. We are now in counseling because she thinks that the MC is going to tell me that my W has all the right answers for dividing up the time with the kids (to optimize her time with OM???) and to leave and let her have the apt.
This is how throwing the curveball of moving back to the states blows everything out of the water... She get 0 time alone w/OM. But you understand what I lose too, the kids. To much revenge in this?<p>Sweden

Hi Sweden,<p>I'm so sorry that you are in this situation.
I actually just asked my H about this and he answered as following:
When I realized that my wife "BB" was on the phone and that she wanted to book a flight one way to Canada, I was shocked!!!
I just was thinking: She'll be gone, gone, gone. She won't be here anymore, but her place is here.
What the heck will she be doing on her own by herself, I cannot let her do this!!!! She really means it and I don't want her to do this!!! No!! I want her here and I want her to be here with me.<p>This was definately a "hello, wake up call" for me and even though I realized how serious our situation was it deifnately made me scared and I then knew I didn't want to loose her. If I would of let her go, she would of been gone forever.<p>
Sweden, this is what my H said and I hope this will help you abit. I know that everyone's situation is different, I just really wish for you that you and your wife will find a way to make this work out.<p>I know it is an absolutely mixed up situation, living in a foreign country and having a family there. We always have a torn up feeling, don't we?
I miss many things from Canada and yet I love things about Germany. When I'm in Canada I miss Germany and the other way around. I'm sure you have to be in this situation to know what I am talking about, it can be hell at times.<p>hugs
BB<p>[ June 19, 2002: Message edited by: blondblossom ]</p>

Hello Sweden,<p>I believe we communicated a long while ago. I don't know why I feel compelled to throw my $0.02 into this since I have definitely never been in your situation. I am also puzzled about what I am going to say to you, because I have never liked the advice that two people living happily apart is better for the children, than a couple having trouble together.<p>But, Sweden it seems to me you need to evaluate this in several steps. One, can you make this decision on its merits rather than thinking it will bring your W back? If you cannot then I think no decision is better than a decision.<p>If you can, then I think you need to ask yourself where would I be the happiest? Where is my professional future greatest? Where would I have the best opportunities? If the answer is truely the US, then you need to go to the next set of questions. If it is not, then stay where you are right now.<p>If the answer is yes, then you have to address the issue of your marriage. Your W wants a divorce and you already know there is little you can do about that but do what you are doing. But, it appears that divorce is in your future, barring a turnaround of some sort. Do you want to continue to fight,or are you done fighting for your marriage? Do you have anything left in your tank, if so continue, if not then it is time to get the divorce.<p>This to my mind leaves the hardest decision: the children. I apologize but I don't recall all of your story. I will presume that your W has contributed as much as you have to the actual rearing of the children. So that this issue is a toss up for this discussion. But, we come to this. If you had stayed married and happily so, would you live the rest of your life in Sweden? Is that something that was in the plan, or was it planned that you would go elsewhere with your family?<p>I ask this because it is possible that if you returned to the US you might get visitation such that your children could visit you when school was out and such. I don't know the Swedish laws about child custody. Don't know many in the US either. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] But, it it seems to me if you never planned on living the rest of your life in Sweden, then you need to continue that plan. If you did plan to do so then I think you need to stay there now for the children.<p>I think my point, which actually bothers but I feel is right, is that YOU need to continue with your plan for your life. THe children will grow up and leave. Yes they are your children, but even if you leave you can have contact with them, you can see them (either they come to you or you go to them), but eventually they will leave even if you and W remained happily married.<p>I am not suggesting that this is easy, or pain free, and I don't know if it will be good or bad for your children, given that divorce is truely a certainty. But, I do know that you would give your life to save your children, but that this is not necessarily a situation that requires that you give your life.<p>Have I talked around the topic enough? [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] I know you would like, and we would like to give you a straight forward answer that would solve all of these issues, but going or staying your children's lives are going to be affected by your W's choices, and subsequently by your choices. <p>I am sure glad I don't have to make your decision, but I think if returning to the US was in your plans as a couple, it should be in your plans now.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

Hi Swedish,
Just wanted to ask, how long have you lived in Sweden and how old are your children???<p>BB

Sweden;
How about an intermediate step? Plan B while staying there for 1-2-3 months, see if WW feels the shock enough to re-think her position....

Thanks everyone for the great responses and ideas!!! It helps me a lot putting things into perspective.<p>I´ve been throwing my MCing "plan of attack" around in my head today and I have come up with this. All of you please let me know what you think...<p>I´ll go into counseling with mostly only "ears." Hopefully, the MC can get my W to start talking about our situation. After a while, I should be able to get an idea what my W´s intentions are, which will most likely be to move forward in planning the D process. If I see that there is NO hope, or signs of her wanting to reconcile, then I will bring up the "my moving back to the US" plan.<p>This way I can get a firm idea as to her intentions (at least immediate), and then press the envelope a little. She maybe needs to realize that this process is NOT going to be simple and painful, and that I´m no longer going to play the doormat.<p>There is something that I haven´t mentioned here that could play into this some. When we went to the last joint session after I found out about her online A, I also stated that I was moving back. This did scare her, and she spent the next month seeking my reassurances that I wasn´t heading back. About two weeks ago I confirmed to her that I wasn´t going, but upon further, more in-depth evaluation, I think it is the right move for the situation of an inevitable oncoming D. <p>This is tricky work; I don´t want it to come off as a threat but, at the same time, if SHE is committed to the decision of D, then I want to walk away knowing I did all I could, and my being in the best position to seek happiness in the future. If I stay here just for the kids, I know I ultimately won´t find peace.<p>One other comment in response to starting a Plan B. We are still living together. Is it even possible? One of us will then need to leave; she will want it to be me (that way she can minimize the disruption in her life). I don´t like the idea at this point because it means that I´m giving in to her desires. I think this is the real reason she is presently pushing for MC. To get the MC to agree with her that the apt. & kids belong with her.<p>Fire away everyone...<p>Thanks again!<p>Sweden

Sweden;
The idea of Plan B is for you to remove from her life those ENs you are fulfilling. You should move out, and have NO CONTACT except the minimum necessary to take care of the kids and/or critical things. That may be what she THINKS she wants, but that is not really what she wants because it's on YOUR terms; No Contact.
She wants the freedom of not having you there, but she also wants you to continue to be there for her emotionally. When you remove that, she has to re-think, choose.

Space,
Point well taken...I completely can see this as an option too! But the moving back part is a much harder slap in the face. I know she will not be pleased. <p>Additionally, I am thinking somewhat about my employment situation. I am in the process (or was) of beginning a PhD program here at Lund University. Everything is lined-up and I would offically begin late-August. Sweden is basically on vacation until this time, so this would give me a logical opportunity to make a break. It's not a real big thing, but I would like this to minimize its impacts on others as much as possible.<p>Sweden