I no longer have contact with OW. OW works in a store. W wants to go there to see what the attraction was. My W says she doesn't plan on making a scene but she can't promise anything. She says she wants to know what she looks like so every woman she sees isn't a suspect. She also wants to compare her to herself. <p>I have reservations about this. Although I understand it, I don't think it will help anything. Shouldn't "NO CONTACT" work for both WS and BS alike. When she see the OW no matter what she looks like it won't help her self esteem. Also I think I am still in withdrawal. I don't need this right now. HELP<p>[ June 20, 2002: Message edited by: Ray ]<p>[ June 21, 2002: Message edited by: Ray ]</p>

Are you in any kind of counseling with your wife?<p>I can completely understand her need to meet the OW, and honestly, if she needs to do this, then I think you should respect her wishes in this.<p>Yes, it may cause her more hurt, but the wondering is awful too. Regardless, either which way, she has the right to make a choice about how she wants to live her life (with answers or not) which is more than she had when you chose to lie to her, and bring a third party to your marital relationship without informing her.<p>However, I can understand you are having problems with withdrawal. Contact for you at this time is extremely destructive. Can you agree with her that she can do this after you are bit more stable?

I can understand your wife wanting to know.. I know some of the women my husband has had, and their are a few I dont know any thing about...seems he cant even remmber their name.. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] I dont believe that but you can only argue so many years about it. <p> I think you need to decide if she can handle it before you do this and how will it effect her.
The pain is great whether she knows or doesnt know. I know when I go to a town to shop nearby there is a woman in that town who was with my husband and spent a couple of years on line with him and called my house and caused a lot of mess in my life and now when I go to that town, I look at every single woman and wonder is that her ? And it makes me sick to my stomache. EVERY THING IS A TRIGGER.
I would guess your wife feels some of this.
Hope that helps you understand her thinking a little better.

Personally I don't feel its up to you to decide what your W can handle or not. You've already made enough decisions for her by having an A. <p>If this is something she needs to do, then she should do it.

Ray,<p>That is word for word what my WS and I went thru last month. I HAD to see her because I was so tired of 'ghosts'. Every woman that remotely fit my H's discription of OW would make me stop and wonder (and when with H, ask him) if that was her.<p>I had to know what she looked like in order to start recovery. I needed to know what she was like, not only looks wise but personality wise because it completed the picture I had to build in my mind in order to get to a point to start recovery. I just needed to see her and that would have told me enough about what her personality was like. Was she sophisticated? Was she a beach babe? Was she a slut? I even wondered for awhile if she was a prostitute because why else would a woman of 40 with 2 kids stay in a relationship for 4 years with a man who has a wife and child that he proclaims his love for (to her) all the time...a man who had no intention of ever leaving us and she knew that. Why would she stay? There were a thousand questions that I HAD to have answered in order to move on and for me they could all be dealt with by simply seeing her. I didn't even need to speak a word to her and I didn't have any interest in hurting her. I just needed to complete the picture.<p>My H kept promising me he'd set something up so I could see her from a distance. That was good enough for me. But it never happened. He had one excuse after another why it couldn't be today. Finally, after about a month of excuses, I took matters into my own hands and phoned her up and asked her if we could meet. To my surprise, she said yes without needing to hear any prompting from me! I was amazed and actually liked her myself. She wasn't a monster. <p>Anyway, we met. At first she denied ever sleeping with my H but I set her straight on that real quick. I repeated some of the things my H had told me and her eyes got big as saucers when she found out all that I knew. My H had told me some extremely personal stuff about her physically as well as a legally unacceptable thing she did while going thru court with her ex-husband for custody of their children. Anyway, she changed her tune pretty quick when she heard all that. We then proceeded to have a very nice conversation. No kidding. She confirmed the details I cared to know about...did he really always profess his love for me to her like he said(yes), etc. <p>But even if nothing would have been said between us, the two burning questions I had (what did she look like and why would SHE stay for 4 years) were answered the minute I saw her. Although she was supposed to be exactly my age, to the month, I was shocked to see how much older than I she looked and acted. I don't know if she lied to H about her age or he just confused her birthday with mine (something that happens regularly when you lead a double life and drink). But in my mind, there it was...her biggest EN was still still being attractive to younger men and being good enough in bed to keep him coming back. She wasn't a hooker after all. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>But, Ray, if you get just one thing from me, let it be this. It would have taken my H and I alot farther down the road to recovery alot faster if he would have helped me meet my need rather standing in my way for a month. I would have been very happy with a look at her from a distance for a minute or two. That's all he had to arrange.<p>If you're wife is like me...this must be done before she can start moving on.<p>If you haven't read it yet, check out Shattered Vows at http://www.findarticles.com/cf_0/m1175/n4_v31/20845729/p1/article.jhtml<p>Hoping you all the courage and success in the world.

Thank you all for your replies. I know she will go to see the OW sooner or later. Like I said I understand her reasons. I don't think "Mom of 5" meant I should make that decision for my W. I think she meant that we should. What I have been concerned about though is that since we have been discussing the subject I find myself thinking about the OW more and more. I don't want to re-kindle feelings for her.

Ray, then don't rekindle your feelings for her. I think it might help in your wife's recovery if she does see the OW. <p>And your reaction to it is going to be crucial, too. If you act protective of the OW it will put you way back in terms of recovery. You need to reassure your wife and protect HER, let her know that you help her do anything to assist in recovery.

Ray<p>I probably worded it wrong, but YES I think you should let her see her. I just think you should be careful about how you do it and in what manner.
I feel It will HELP knowing what this person looks like. Takes all the wondering out of your head and makes the mystery go away. Maybe she can heal and move on.
My husband was a firm believer in not telling anything he didnt get caught at, however he got caught many times, but I dont know details or any thing else, just that he betrayed me many times. So I never healed completely, it is always in the back of my mind and I can not and have never moved passed it.
I dont talk about it or argue about it with him, but it is always in my mind.
it never goes away.
I have always felt he protected the O women all the time no matter what the cost to my emotional stability was.
[img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ June 20, 2002: Message edited by: mom of five ]</p>

I hope I can add something to this discussion. It has been almost two years since my husband told me about his affair and we began recovery. My husband was very honest and open about everything concerning the affair. Although he has described her in detail, I do not have an actual visual picture of her. I felt, at first, that actually attaching a real face to the images that were going through my mind would be harder for me to deal with. Within the first week after he ended contact with her, I had him drive me by her house but no one was home (so I do know where she lives). Now (two years later) I wish I knew what she looked like. Part of me still wants to sit in front of her house to "wait" for her to come out so that I can catch a glimpse of what she looks like ( if she even lives there any more) . Like the others have said, I still find myself "wondering" if it is HER when I happen to realize that someone "sort of" matches her description. A very good email friend of mine (who is also going through recovery) could not understand why I had no desire to see her. If your wife wants to see the other woman..then...in my opinion... you should help her to make it possible. You brought this woman into your relationship..and now your wife is doing what she needs to do to deal with it.

It appears everyone agrees she should see the OW. After reading all your replies I agree also. What is the best way to procede? should she go alone? Should I take her there? Should I contact the OW to make arrangements? Should my W call her? How can best help her???

Talk it over with your wife and decide together.
Primarily, it is her need that is being filled so try to make sure that how it happens will be all she is looking for. Maybe it could happen in steps. First she sees OW from a distance and if that is not enough then at a later date something more could happen.<p>But make sure your W is aware of your needs too. You may not want to be there. Or you may really want to be there. If you're anything like my H, you have a driving need to want to protect the 'innocent'. Believe it or not, I understand what he meant by that now but when he first said it I just about took his head off. <p>Because he made it clear that he didn't want us to talk, I was willing to just see her from a distance and see if that would complete that need for me or not. Unfortunately, my H never had the courage to follow through on it so I took matters into my own hands when I phoned her up myself. I told him everything that was said and he was relieved that our meeting went so well and that it was finally over with. (I was lucky...I didn't have any strong negative feelings towards her so I wasn't looking to hurt her.) <p>And I'll tell you this...the next time I went out of the house was for groceries with H and it was such a wonderful experience. I could walk down the aisles and not once did I wonder if every woman I saw was her. Need filled. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Good luck and try to remember, the amount of love you 'show' her right now brings you that much farther and quicker down the road to recovery. Right now it is actions that show how much you love her. She needs to learn to trust your words again but actions are usually proof in themselves....much less room for doubt.<p>Backing you all the way,
EC

Ray,
If your W wants to see the OW, it's her decision. You need to stay out of it. I hope you were kidding about calling the OW to set it up. This is not a parent/teacher conference. <p>You need to observe No Contact! It sounds to me like your W just wants to see the OW to put a face on this ugly situation. For you to make contact and set up a meeting would be a very bad idea. Would the OW think that you were trying to start up the A again? [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Support you W in her decision, she did not ask to be here... [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]

ray
please do not set up something with ow just take your wife somewhere you know she can see her or tell her where the store is and let her go her self.
FIRST let me say if you call other woman to tell her your wife is insecure and wants to see what she looks like, this will be a bonus for other woman, and your wife will be furious you dared said anythig personal to her at all..
please save your self alot of hassell and do not call ow and say anything. she needs to know nothing about you or your wife or any conversation you are having. Bigg NO NO to share your wifes thoughts with this woman. That would be nothing short of another betrayel to your wife. <p> OTHERS may disagree, but I can tell you I dont think I am wrong on this.<p>[ June 20, 2002: Message edited by: mom of five ]</p>

Ladysing58, No I wasn't kidding about setting it up I was asking. If you read the whole thread you would have seen that "Extremly_confused brought it up as an option" <p>"My H kept promising me he'd set something up so I could see her from a distance. That was good enough for me."<p>Because my W has asked for my help on how to handle this situation I can't exactly "stay out of it" In all fairness the thought of calling to set something up was way down low on the list in my mind.

Ray,
I'm sorry if I offended you. I did read all of the posts, always do before I make any comments. What I read it that ExtremelyConfused's H offered to "set something up" to see the OW from a distance. The question you asked is if you should contact the OW to set something up. I read these to be very different. To let your W know where the OW works so she can get a look at her is very different from you calling the OW to personally set it up.<p>Sorry for the confusion, only trying to help. [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img]

I meet with my wife's OM. Infact I was going to meet with him before I knew he was with her because she had been so disconnected from our marriage for a while and I just learned about a cyber affair she was having.... I never she was having a EA/PA with him, her best friend.<p>Honestly I used my time with him to learn details, to try to get their stories of the affair to even out so I would be able to trust again. Unfortunatly it didn't happen that way. and I'm still learning more about what happened to this very week.<p>I wish you the best in your recovery, but I promise you - the only way she will feel better is if you hide nothing. Break free of that addition to lying. Even open those wounds to be totally honest.<p>The worst had already happened - the affair. Now the truth will definatly hurt - but it will also prove your willingness to make up for your mistakes.<p>Good Luck!

Sorry Lady, I was getting defensive. I came here for help. Thanks Pete for your reply. <p>I do have one or two questions though. This POJA and PORA. Why is it that when it comes to the personal feelings of the WS in matters like this, everyone seems to feel he should let the BS do whatever makes her feel better. Let her make this decision. If the WS didn't agree with this decision do we just through out the POJA. OR should I keep my feelings to myself. Even if I feel this is opening up an emotional can of worms for me. (LIE)? <p>Not that I disagree with her desire but the tone here suggests I should comprimise both Policies

No problem Ray,
We're all defensive, comes with the territory.
Because you said that you still feel that you are in withdrawal, I felt that you even considering contacting the OW would be counterproductive to your recovery. As a BS, my outlook will not be very objective, so I will hope that some other WS's will be able to answer your questions. We are all here because of being hurt, one way or the other. We are also all here to try to help our relationships, I applaud you for that.

Ray,<p>Sorry I wasn't more clear in my posting. In your quote of me it even says "from a distance" but obviously something else I said muddied the waters a bit.<p>Contrary to the confusion I created here, I had made it very clear to my H that there was NEVER to be any contact with her again without my PRIOR knowledge. Of course, if you have read my profile, you know that didn't happen. <img src="graemlins/teary.gif" border="0" alt="[Teary]" /> <p>The most important thing is to discuss it with your wife and decide together. Everyone is different and every situation is unique. Being a BS, I'll pretty well guarantee she won't even consider you calling OW to set it up but it's not impossible either. And, as I said earlier, make sure your W is aware of your needs too. My H had a need to protect the innocent. Of course, it turned out that "he was the innocent" because the reason he didn't want OW and I to meet was there were a ton of lies he hadn't come clean to me with so he was worried about what can of beans she would spill (and there were lots of cans for her to inadvertently choose from). Fortunately for him, I am a good enough sleth that D-day #3 happened before I got together with her and that was it...I was on my way out the door. With nothing left to lose, he finally came clean and told me everything. If I would have learned it from OW and not from him, I would be referring to him as my STBX instead of my H right now.<p>POJA does not get thrown out the window here. You and your W have the same objectives ...to save the M. You've already agreed to the hardest part of doing this....helping W meet a very strong EN. You already understand how important that is to her in order to get into recovery mode. So far POJA is intact.<p>Next discuss how it should happen. Be very honest with each other and give supporting reasons for your feelings. If you both truly have the objective of saving the M (and you have nothing left to hide [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] ), then you'll succeed.<p>Remember, it's you who is trying to reprove your love and trust right now so expect that it's going to seem like you're doing alot more of the giving than she is. But trust me, your W just by still being there and agreeing to do whatever it takes to get back on track, is putting in just as much sacrific and effort at you are.<p>Still backing you all the way.
EC<p>[ June 21, 2002: Message edited by: Extremely_confused ]</p>

I would highly suggest that you do not contact the OW..if she works in a store (like you mentioned), your wife could just walk in and shop a little. I completely understand your wife's need to see what the woman looks like. If either of you do contact the OW..you are allowing the OW to know that she still has some power/control in your relationship. It will give her a huge boost if she knew that she was having that kind of affect on your two. I understand your feelings about not wanting your wife to see her (I think we can all understand it), however, your wife is going through just about the worst pain that she has ever been through and she is trying to hang on and deal with it in whatever way she can. She could have went by herself (without telling you) and saw the OW...she could have attacked the woman...but she is trying to work with you to get her needs met. Your wife deserves a lot of credit. Althought I chose (for my own reasons) not to see the OW.... a lot of woman don't act so civily (as your wife) and they go after the OW. In my opinion, you should drive with your wife to the store..but let her go in by herself to see the OW (you should not, I repeat..SHOULD NOT have any contact with her)..encourage your wife not to have words with her... the OW is a nothing and doesn't deserve the time or energy... and be there waiting in the car when your wife comes out. It will be very traumatic for your wife and she will need you to be there for her. Good luck!<p>Tammy