Having gone through the trauma of trying to forgive and forget, the doubt, the anxiety, the images and questions, I think everyone has to reach a point where they can honestly answer the question: IS IT REALLY WORTH IT?<p>Why not just accept the fact that you are or were PLAN B when the spouse met the lover and became PLAN A. The spouse didn't want you, didn't care about you, didn't give you a thought except perhaps to ridicule, and certainly...didn't love you at all!<p>He or she, isn't really worth the trouble and all that goes with the fact that they have joined their body and soul with another. They have shared your most intimate secrets with their lover. They had nothing but disdain for you. <p>Don't be a fool. Life is too short. If kids are involved, perhaps you can live together as friends until they are grown or you can work out an agreement and split.<p> That wonderful person that you once held so dear is gone forever. Stop torturing yourself! You are now dealing with a 'clone' who looks like the one you loved, who sounds like the one you loved and even feels like the one you loved but we both know deep down in our hearts, the one we loved is gone forever. <p>You are too good of a person to allow them to demean you and humilate you in the worst way possible and then have the ultimate audacity to expect you to forgive and forget. Forget what the good doctor says...neither of those two things will ever happen and you are delusional if you think otherwise.<p>Hold your head up and go forth in life as a person of dignity and respect.

a1911a:<p>This is simple-minded, and not particularly useful advice.<p>Sure tossing the WS out on their keester is ONE way to deal with an A. Do so if that's what you want. But you'll not have solved anything. This site is about building better marriages (hence the name). It doesn't presume that all marriages are salvageable, but most of them are. Even if the marriage ends, there's a lot of rebuilding of one's self-esteem that should be done before having another relationship. Hence plan A. It isn't about the spouse having the affair. It's about the betrayed spouse, and making them a better partner for either the wayward spouse or someone else.

Yes it is and was worth the trouble.<p>I'm with the man I love, who loves me.<p>We're better, wiser people who deserve our happiness together.<p>And, I don't believe I am delusional, though I am a person of dignity, and without regrets.<p>I have some concern about you though....

You seem very bitter. Would you like to share your story with us? Maybe it would help to understand where you're coming from.<p>Just for the record, I am not a fool and I would say that most others here are not fools. I don't torture myself either. Why should I when the man I love is right now on his way home from working a long day to provide for his family. When he gets here, he'll kiss me and ask about my day just as always. He'll eat the dinner I prepared and tell me how glad he is that I don't cook like his mother. I'll see the diamonds in his wedding band sparkle much like his eyes sparkle when he looks at me and tonight he'll be sleeping in my bed and holding me close.<p>He is human like the rest of us and not infallible. He made a mistake, a horrible mistake and he is sorry for that. Am I then to play God and say he can't be forgiven? I can't do that because just like him, I have made mistakes too.<p>I love him and he loves me and I will hold my head up and go forth in life as a person of dignity and respect with the man I love by my side [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Yes it is worth it. Thank you for giving me the chance to brag loudly about my formerly wayward husband!<p>My husband's affair was on and off over a 2 year period. We were separated for 18 months and headed into divorce court. I had a tough lawyer and I had already served my husband some pretty ugly divorce papers.<p>Since the night he asked me to come home, almost a year ago, he has done his very best to make it "worth it" for me.<p>He wrote a nocontact letter to his OW, and has kept to it. He has made his entire life open to me to regain my trust and takes extra precaution to make sure that I know where he is and what he is doing at all times.<p>It was a little rough at first....but once he saw how badly it hurt me when he didn't take those precautions, he has done everything he can to keep from hurting me that way.<p>A year into recovery...what is my relationship like?<p>Trust is returning, slowly, but growing.<p>My husband sends me off to work in the morning after fantastic SF [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>He has dinner ready for me every night when I walk in the door.<p>He calls me several times a day just to chat.<p>He rarely calls me by my name...instead I am "kitten", "lover" or "beautiful". I am unable to walk past him with his demands that I "pay the troll" with hugs and kisses. He sleeps every night with his arms wrapped around me.<p>My husband tells me at work to hurry up and come home at night so we can take our nightly stroll through the neighborhood, and then snuggle on the couch watching all our goofy TV shows or movies.<p>This is a man who 2 years ago couldn't be bothered to help around the house - who now does laundry, takes care of the kids, does dishes, is busy outside planting and digging up lawn to plant more gardens, makes trips to Home Depot for all kinds of little things to make our home nicer and more comfortable. <p>My husband is very attuned to my every mood and expression. He doesn't always interpret them well, but he is aware. And he tries.<p>My husband is a man who has through his every day actions is proving to me that I am safe to love, that he is here to stay, and that he chooses our life together.<p>My marriage before his affair was a nightmare for both of us.<p>We have a much better marriage that is improving daily.<p>While he was with his OW, I had to face myself and learn alot of lessons about life and about living. I am a completely different and better person as a result. Those lessons alone were worth it.<p>But even better, I got to improve myself AND I got a much better marriage.<p>It was totally worth it!

Lor, 2long, & TinyDancer,<p>Very good replies, I hope they have some impact! <p>And I would like to add my vote along with yours. <p>
Yes, sometimes I wondered if it was worth it, and maybe on a really bad day I still do. But 99% of the time I am so glad that I chose to take the challenge of rebuilding our marriage with the help of this forum and the friends I have made here. My husband is a good man who did a bad thing. I am a good person who handled it very badly, and learned from my mistakes. We are on a new journey together, one that gets better all the time. I am not delusional, nor am I unintelligent. I made the reasonable, rational decision to honor my committment. Why would that cause ME to feel demeaned or humiliated?

Is it worth it? Hell yes Im separeated from my husband right now yes he has done some terrrrrable
things but what makes me the better person is I have forgivin him. The day I left town I still seen my husband in him. the man I fell in love with. I did not fall in love with a stranger we were engaged for 5 years before we tied the knot we just stoped communicating. and thing went down hill from thier we are both lost and yes I would do this all over again.

Is it just me, or does this poster seem more like a rejected OW to others, too?<p>Maybe I am getting cynical, but the kind of bitterness portrayed here, with the added fact that the poster is not giving out details, and attacks on people, AND declarations that trying to save the marriage is worthless, are usually things we habve seen from frustrated OW.<p>Just a thought.<p>(If not, I apologise...but then for me, I need to see this poster's story before I am going to change my mind, or respond anymore)<p>Love and light,<p>Jacky

Nina
I have to admit....when I started to read that post, I thought the same exact thing. Now I am very curious. <p>I hope I'm wrong.<p>MAX

First of all, a mistake is something along the lines of locking your keys in your car. An affair is not a mistake. Your spouse's actions were deliberate. He/She may have regrets for his/her actions, but it was not a "mistake". It was a deliberate action. It was a decision made without thinking about how it may or may not effect you, but about his/her own selfish needs. It says something about a person's morals and character. It says that you were not important to your spouse at the time (and neither were your kids if you have any). Where are people's sense of values. Society has decayed it. People today want everything "now". They don't want to work for anything. Everything should be handed to them right now. It makes me ill.

a1911a,<p>I'm assuming you must be an OW, if not then please disregard this. But then again you did start this post.<p>We can pose this same question the the OP (men or women). Have you really asked yourself if it's all worth it?<p>Let's see, image being second best. Knowing the WS is going home to their BS everynight. Every ridicule the WS tells the OP, at home it is a compliment or a hug, kiss, or SF. Because even though they are having sex with the OP believe it or not they are still having sex with the BS. At least in my case, there was still plenty of sex at home or else I would have suspected. <p>Now is it worth it for the OP to spend holidays alone, vacations alone, nights alone. Can't go out in public might get caught, gee what a dirty secret they hide. They spend their time waiting for the WS to be only theirs, and how often does that become a reality? OP seem to assume the BS is very foolish to put up with this, but we usually don't know it is going on. When we do find out, boy that's when all parties find out who really loves who and the OP most of the time loses. <p>My WS told the OP that he would never leave me for them, and still the OP didn't mind. The only time my WS spent with the OP was on his lunch break 4 days a week = 2 hours a week, they only had sex in a car how degrading. Boy that tells me she was desperate and obviously had low self-esteem to not demand more out of it. Considering she went after him knowing he was married tells me what kind of person she was. In the end when I found out, he dropped her like a hot potato. <p>So in the end why do OP waste their time/life. I know if it was me, first words out of my mouth would be "If you want me, leave her first, if not have a nice life". Guess I just have high self-esteem and know I'm worth it.

Mistake "an error caused by a lack of skill, attenion, knowledge, to understand wrongly, to be in error".<p>I think it is reasonable to say there are times the first stages of an affair can be started by mistake, by committing errors through lack of attention or knowledge. Like that daily cup of coffee and conversation with that appealing co-worker may create an intimacy.<p>I usually call it bad choices or bad decisions myself, but see "mistake" as a concept that can be part of the whole.<p>Even when someone, a WS or OP, has a run of bad judgement or a BS is caught in a behavioral web of lovebusters, it doesn't mean they won't ever think clearly, won't change behavior and thought patterns to live a dignified, enjoyable, honorable life.<p>Everybody goes through trouble. Sometimes we choose it, sometimes it is forced upon us. <p>Cutting and running without understanding is not a viable way of life. <p>Problem solving, being proactive, thinking things through, even giving it time, love and patience before a final decision, like divorce, is a much better approach.

YES IT IS ALL WORTH IT. I asked myself that when my FWS asked me to give him one last chance, that was almost nine months ago and it has been all worth it. I never want to go thought the pain that his A caused me again but now that it is in the past I can say we are both better for it. Our marriage is stonger then ever and we are better together then apart. BrambleRose said it all in her post, my h has done a complete 180 since he ended all contact with the ow. He treats me like a queen, my feeling are the most important thing to him. He shows me everyday how much our love means to him in every actions he takes. When I found out about his A I thought our marriage was over, that I could never forgive him. Well I was wrong, I not only could forgive, I did, and I am a better person because I could forgive. I still feel the pain his A caused but now I can go to him and tell him just how I feel and he can hold me and reasure me that the pain is in the past. I am sorry you feel the way you do a1911a, I can understand that you have been hurt, we all have. You need to find a way to get past all the pain and angry feelings, even if you don't want your marriage anymore, you need to do this so you can heal yourself. I pray you can find the peace and happiness that everyone deserves.

a1911a.<p>Is it worth it?<p>Is a duck's butt waterproof? <p>
I think so.

"The spouse didn't want you, didn't care about you, didn't give you a thought except perhaps to ridicule, and certainly...didn't love you at all!<p>He or she, isn't really worth the trouble and all that goes with the fact that they have joined their body and soul with another. They have shared your most intimate secrets with their lover. They had nothing but disdain for you.<p>That wonderful person that you once held so dear is gone forever. Stop torturing yourself! You are now dealing with a 'clone' who looks like the one you loved, who sounds like the one you loved and even feels like the one you loved but we both know deep down in our hearts, the one we loved is gone forever. <p>You are too good of a person to allow them to demean you and humilate you in the worst way possible and then have the ultimate audacity to expect you to forgive and forget. Forget what the good doctor says...neither of those two things will ever happen and you are delusional if you think otherwise."<p>a1911a: These parts of your post make you sound a lot like my H. I cheated on my H, and right now he is hurting just as much as you, and has as little interest in the recovery of our marriage as you (or so he says). I have to believe in the possibility of us recovering our marriage, or at least trying to someday, in order to go on with my life. I know (or at least I'm beginning to understand) how much my actions have hurt my H. With time, and some self-healing my H, and you as well will hopefully be less bitter and open your eyes to the fact that many people go through infidelity and then rebuild their marriages, often even making them stronger after making changes in the way the spouses treat each other.<p>You really should read the many posts under "recovery" that tell of successful recovery - it may not change your point of view, but they will at least open your eyes. Those posts give me hope, they may do the same for you. It certainly sounds like you are in need of some hope right now.<p>By the way - after posting such a conversation starter, I'm betting everyone wishes you'd post again and let us all know how you feel about what we've had to say.<p>Incidentally, I don't think a1911a is the OW. I think it's a BS.<p>Jen<p> [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]

I am so glad to see people say it is worth the fight to put the marriage back together. I have a question though.<p> Was it the true change that you saw in the WS that made the effort worth it all? <p> I think the key to it all is the WS has to examine their inner self and to make whatever changes necessary to make the marriage trusting and safe again. It may be simple things or it may be things that take lots of effort but if both parties are committed to fixing the relationship then the effort is worth it on both sides.<p> I think Lor said it best. You are with the person you love and you have become better wiser people who deserve happiness together.<p> Bramble says...We have a much better marriage that is improving daily.<p> I think this is the after affect of talking through issues together. The communication becomes so much better when you are trying to recover a marriage( so it seems to me). <p> I pray that my marriage will have the happy outcome as many of you have on here.<p> Love in Christ<p> cajunky<p>[ June 22, 2002: Message edited by: cajunky ]<p>[ June 23, 2002: Message edited by: cajunky ]</p>

IMHO....<p>It would all be worth it if the WS would be sincere in their desire to repair the hurt that they have caused by being unfaithful to their spouse. A sincerely contrite and ashamed WS would approach their BS with humilty. <p>They would not continue the affair...(they would assure the spouse that it was completely over and remove themselves from ANY type of contact with the OP).<p>They would not blame the BS for the affair, as if the BS chose the person, placed them in a vehicle, drove them to the "meeting" place, stripped them of their clothes, and forced them into sexual activity....(they would accept the responsibility for it as it was a "choice" that they had made, afterall, they could have stopped and returned home at anytime).<p>They would not be traipsing all over the country to visit the OP while their BS stayed home and just waited it out....(they would be stay home and work on letting the BS spouse know that their top priority was their BS and their marriage).<p>They would not be asking for some time to let them work out their feelings for this OP (as in hitting the sheets and getting their fill of them)...(they would be exerting all that energy sharing themselves and enjoying the love that their BS had to share and enjoy).<p>As long as the WS is continuing in the affair the BS is literally on the sidelines waiting for the coach to call them into the game. You know that the game is being played, you can see the action going on, and you wait patiently on the bench just praying that the coach sees you. The BS is simply warming the bench, waiting for one of the main players to either tire or grow ineffective in taking the team to a victoty. You are finally noticed and called in!!! Yeah!!!! You get to play only a little until the main player gets his second wind or the coach has reamed him good and then.....WHAM.....back to the bench you go. The main player is back in the game and there you sit...once again warming the bench. Everytime that the WS argues with that OP you become the stand in. They always have someone to fall back on...someone to take up the slack so to speak. As long as you are on that bench and "allowing" the affair to continue while waiting, you set yourself up for just this type of scenario. <p>Not all As work out like this, probably only a select few. But I cannot see where this would even be workable. But then again, everyone has their own personal limit as to how much that they can take. How much of a whipping that they are willing to take and how much a$$ kissing that they are willing to dish out is a very individual thing. We can only decide for ourselves. <p>I find that as I read some of the posts that are on here I can really link the Serenity Prayer to some.<p>God, grant me the serenity to accept the things that I cannot change, courage to change the things that I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. <p>Some things you can change.....people you cannot. People make their own choices and some of us just get caught in the fallout. We pick ourselves up and persevere. You ultimately can only change yourself.<p>Wow....so long a post.....Yikes!!!<p>Closing Note: Choice is Individual. [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img]

committed,
I'm someone who did wait it out, PA began 4/98, I did Plan A--sometimes better than other times, quite good the last 6 months. I served D papers 3/00. H & I reconciled 5/00.<p>Looking back, the Plan A, though long, allowed me to think, regroup, set my own course, become stronger. When it was time to move on, I started the process knowing I had done everything possible for me. <p>Giving my H a 7th chance was one of the more difficult things I've ever done. His change of heart at that time was true, but it had seemed true before...and failed.<p>I think you need to look at what you had pre A as well. My H & I had a pretty good 15 year marriage, some rough spots, some basic personality clashes, but it was workable and we liked/loved each other. I thought it was worth it to to wait it out for awhile, which turned out to be measured in months, years.<p>I believe if I had wanted a divorce immediately, at the first separation or later at discovery day, we'd likely be divorced now.<p>In the midst of the bad times, divorce was not my optimal outcome. I couldn't control that if that is what my H followed through with, but he didn't. I kept myself at the point where reconciliation was possible for me. When I could no longer do that, I was mentally, emotionally ready to move on with my life.<p>I also had the strength to reconcile with my H at that point.<p>I would say that the BS should follow their own course for what they believe is right or what they see as the optimal, not be swayed into hasty low self-esteem decisions they don't want because of the wayward behavior of their spouse.<p>It isn't being a back up, or second choice, it is knowing you are the BEST CHOICE and giving your spouse Plan A/B time to realize it.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>You are too good of a person to allow them to demean you and humilate you in the worst way possible and then have the ultimate audacity to expect you to forgive and forget. Forget what the good doctor says...neither of those two things will ever happen and you are delusional if you think otherwise.... That wonderful person that you once held so dear is gone forever.<hr></blockquote><p>Whoa Nelly a1911a!...not so quick... apparently, you've never read the "marie story"-- Her's is a story worth mentioning: <p>A glorious, beautiful story of a committed wife WHO BELIEVED IN HERSELF AND HER ABILITY TO LOVE AND TO BE LOVED BY HER HUSBAND. <p>A story of a woman who remains married to the only man she's every truly loved (despite his affair-- despite his finding his affair "soulmate"). <p>A story of a woman who REBUILT her marriage into an amazingly healthy, strong, rewarding, beautiful, honest, and passionate UNION-- with the help of this website AND with the help (patience/committment) of the man she calls her lover and best friend: HER HUSBAND.<p>To quote the great Martin Luther King, Jr: "We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope."<p>Update: 3 years post d-day-- Just celebrated our 20th wedding anniversary! ...can't ever imagine life without my H (even if he does get on my nerves every now and again [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] )!!!...still looking forward to 20 MORE years together!<p>Peace, ~Marie

Lor...I admire the perseverance you showed in standing up for your marriage. You did just what they teach at rejoice ministries. Don't give up on standing for your marriage no matter the circumstances. As you can see you have reaped the benefits of standing for your marriage.<p> I agree with you about we need to look at our relationship pre A. If you had a great marriage then the fight to get back what you shared at one time becomes more intense because you know what you once had is worth the time and effort of getting back.<p> Oh my....I haven't heard that story. It is a really touching story of how the deep love you have for your spouse can help overcome an affair. When we love someone like we love our spouses nothing should be able to get in the way. I really like the martin luther king quote. That is my motto right now..NEVER LOSE HOPE<p> I honestly get sick when I think of what I did to my wife. I always think about what I have put my wife through and I want to make it up to her so bad. I know she has been deeply hurt but I know we can work through the pain together and make our marriage a much better place to be.<p> I pray everyday that my wife and I will be reconciled one day soon and I will have my family back together.<p> Love in christ<p> cajunky<p>[ June 24, 2002: Message edited by: cajunky ]</p>