The last couple of days have been pretty painful, but I'm finally feeling better today. It hasn't helped that work has been busy due to the end of the fiscal year, but even that is calming down a bit. I have been able to see my counselor twice since Monday, and she told me that I was not doing myself any favors by trying to force myself to accept finality. She said things were moving way too fast to end a relationship of this length. She said it's ok for me to keep having some hope even if he's saying that he's done - it will help me through this tough time, and as I get stronger, it will be easier to accept it if we do split. She believes that the only way that we might reconcile is if I at least appear to let him go and get on with my own life. <p>So that's the plan for the moment... and my brother and his wife have provided a perfect opportunity for me to show some independence and get a break from things. They talked me into going on vacation with them next week, so Saturday we leave for Las Vegas and San Francisco. I'll be back next Friday night. <p>It was soooo hard to make the decision to go. I haven't been on a vacation without him in 8 years. I had to force myself to say yes and fight down the panic - it felt like doing this was only reinforcing the fact that we aren't together right now. I'm trying to keep some things in mind - i.e. married couples do go on trips without each other and this is an experience I can share with him later. <p>I do not think I am going to tell him I am going, either. He hasn't told me when he's gone out of town, and I'd like him to have that feeling of surprise that I had when I found out about his trips from another source. The house is my only concern, but we have a monitored alarm system and if it goes off, they'll call our list of contacts - I'll just make sure they have his cell number. <p>I got an email from him this morning:
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(JG)-<p>Just wanted to let you know a few things and ask you a question. I deposited ($) in the joint account yesterday. The side view mirror repair just did not take, so I think we are going to have to get them to repair it. What is the name of the service station that we usually go to? Lastly, did the county send us our stickers? I think that yesterday was the day they needed to be on the vehicles...
Thanks,
I hope you are doing well.
(H)
-------------<p>One of my friends commented "rude awakening facing this boy if he goes into the world alone." [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>My reply:
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(H),<p>Thank you for making the deposit. The service station is (blah blah blah). The county stickers have not arrived yet, they are behind on processing the payments and said if you get stopped the cop will just give you a card to call in the sticker number once you get it. I will let you know when they arrive. We have new medical/dental insurance effective July 1, I will leave the card on the kitchen counter. ( (x) is still your regular doctor but we have to go to a different dentist.)<p>I would like to reschedule the talk we planned to have Saturday. The weekend after this one would be better for me. Let me know if you are available.<p>Thanks,
(JG)
-----------<p>About 30 minutes later I got this reply:<p>-----------
(JG),

Thank you for making the deposit.<p>No problem, It was overdue anyway, I will deposit my check on Friday or Saturday...<p> The county stickers have not arrived yet, they are behind on processing the payments and said if you get stopped the cop will just give you a card to call in the sticker number once you get it. I will let you know when they arrive. <p>Cool, thank you. I got lucky and the inspection went well. So that's good at least.<p> We have new medical/dental insurance effective July 1, I will leave the card on the kitchen counter. <p>Again, thank you. I'll get the cards soon.

I would like to reschedule the talk we planned to have Saturday. The weekend after this one would be better for me. Let me know if you are available.

Yes, I'm available. Just let me know when is good for you.<p>Talk to you later,
(H)
------------<p>Comments? Suggestions?<p>[ June 27, 2002: Message edited by: Jelly Girl ]<p>[ June 27, 2002: Message edited by: Jelly Girl ]</p>

Where is he living? Can he move back home? What do you think of going to PLan A, with some boundaries? Moving forward with some of this independence and strength but return to Plan A where you are communicating a little more. (There's a great thread by Terrified you need to read "I know we're over but can I have one more kiss?" [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] )<p>I'm wondering if this time apart has done some good - for both of you. Yes, reality of "life" seems to be hitting him. My ex doesn't do "details" well, and depended on me a LOT for that stuff (bills, apointments, the name of "that" service station.. LOL [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] ... etc... [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] ) And the separation has given you some independence as well.<p>I like what your counselor told you. I also think hubby cares about you a good bit - based on his communication, and you 2 obviously have lots of details to work out before a Plan B can be very effective.<p>I just think you need some effective Plan A stuff before going to an all-out PLan B. <p>Just my thoughts....<p>[ June 27, 2002: Message edited by: Faith1 ]</p>

Hi Faith1,<p>He is living with his little brother, he could move back home - there's no lease or anything. Plan A with some boundaries might work. I read that thread - what a great idea! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] I thought about a twist on it... maybe giving him a little taste of what he wants but then saying "we probably shouldn't be doing this..." [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] I'm not sure, though. I'm pretty upset that he saw the OW, and I may have to go to Plan B, but that doesn't mean I can't do a little more Plan A while we work out the details. (That's what the Saturday conversation I asked to reschedule is about.) I figure after a week away, I will be a little more clearheaded... or at least I hope so.<p>Maybe your ex and my H are twins... they are scarily alike! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I think what you said makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the advice!<p>I don't think I've mentioned this yet... but I think that everything happens for a reason, and there is a lesson to be learned and/or potential for growth. I think my lesson here is to not allow my individuality to get lost in relationships, and to learn/establish healthy boundaries.<p>Here's some more good advice I got today:<p> Make a life for yourself, one he can join if he chooses to, but one in that you will be okay and do better than survive if he chooses not to. You may find something or someone out there who can give you what you really need. <p>[ June 27, 2002: Message edited by: Jelly Girl ]</p>

I think that's some great attitudes dear!<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I think my lesson here is to not allow my individuality to get lost in relationships, and to learn/establish healthy boundaries.<p>Here's some more good advice I got today:<p>Make a life for yourself, one he can join if he chooses to, but one in that you will be okay and do better than survive if he chooses not to. You may find something or someone out there who can give you what you really need.<hr></blockquote><p> [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Two more thoughts though... I THINK it's ok to tell him where you're going - if he asks. Or at least to say "I'm going on vacation with <brother> and <wife>" if he asks. <p>And your conversation next weekend (the one scheduled for this Saturday) can be asking him to move home - not begging - but not to announce "Plan A"... but simply something like "let's not give up on this yet. Let's give it more time." and maybe "Would you consider counseling?" <p>I think you're doing great Jelly Girl! Hang in there! We just gotta see if PBB (Peanut Butter Boy) will come out of the fog a little bit!

Thanks, Faith1! Let's just hope I can keep it up... [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I agree with you - I will tell him if he asks... but so far he hasn't, and I don't think he will. He will find out eventually, and I'm hoping it carries some shock value when he does. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I will have to see how I feel and how he's acting when we have "the conversation". I'm not sure he'd be receptive to coming home, continuing to try or going back to counseling, so I may wait a bit before asking. If he's still in the "ooh, freedom!" stage, I'm afraid it might make things worse. I think I need to clearly show that I'm prepared to move on without him before I ask for anything. <p>I don't know for sure... any FWHs out there that can give some input on this?

Got yet another email from H this morning:

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Morning,

I just wanted to let you know that I am going to run by the house this morning and pick up a couple of things. IE a hockey jersey (I'm playing pickup.) I also want to pick up some of the credit card bills so I can start getting a handle on those. I also need to get deposit slips so I can deposit my check.

Do you still not want to meet tomorrow? Are you going to be out of town, if you dont mind me asking? If so I was thinking of coming over and packing up the (room with all his "boy" stuff in it). Just let me know and I can work it all out.

Hope things are going alright for you,
Talk to you later,
(H)
------------

I realized there was no way I could easily respond to this by email, so I called him. Told him coming over to get his jersey was fine, but what did he mean about the bills? Said he was thinking about changing the address on them to where he's staying, but I said we need to talk about who is taking what bills before he does that. He realized that if I didn't have them, I couldn't pay them, and he didn't have the money to yet. I said we could talk about all that next weekend.

Then he asked if I was going out of town. I said that I was, with my bro and his wife, and he said, "that's nice - wait a minute, are you going to Vegas??" and I told him yes, and to San Fran, and he said, "you suck! I mean that in the nicest way, though!" He was very happy and envious that I was going on this trip.

We then talked about him packing stuff while I was gone, and I said if it was just the stuff in that room that I would be fine since I don't usually go in there. I told him that I'd tried to move some of his stuff from our bedroom into the guest room but it really bugged me that it was gone, so I put it back. I said I didn't want to rush things, and I wasn't ready for his stuff to be gone yet. He said he understood, and if he did pack anything, it would just be that room and he'd leave the boxes there.

I asked him how he'd been doing, and he said he was just getting on or something. He asked me, said I sounded better, and I said I have good days and bad days, and he said he did too. I asked him if he'd had any second thoughts, and his response was yes, but he still thinks this is what we should do. He said he was incredibly sorry this was hurting me. I said this was hurting him too, and he said it was.

I asked him if he understood why I didn't want to rush things and he said because I don't want this, and I told him it was not just that but also that he "thinks" this is what he wants - isn't 100% sure. He made some comment about how he's never that sure about anything. I said this is a big decision and I don't want to rush. He said we need to start doing stuff like splitting finances, getting the house on the market, doing a separation agreement. He said he didn't want to give me false hope by not doing those things. I said I understood. He also said something regarding his second thoughts and doing this stuff - don't remember exactly, but my impression was that he wanted to see how he felt after he'd started paying his bills and such. It was like he wanted to get those things done then re-evaluate.

Before we hung up he told me to be safe and have a good time on my trip, and call him when I get home. I called him back a little while later because I'd forgotten to tell him that I lost 4 more pounds, and I'm now only 4 pounds more than I was in November 1996. He was very happy to hear that. He said he's gaining weight... we chatted for a few more minutes, very friendly, and that was it.

I'm trying not to put too much value on the fact that he's having second thoughts... but I am glad to hear that he is and that he's admitting it. So now I need to multiply those second thoughts... I'm thinking this trip will help, the weight loss will help... looking really good when we do have "the conversation" next week will help...

Any ideas/thoughts/comments? This coming Wednesday is our 7th anniversary... I'll be in San Fran... should I call him? (It's our actual anniversary, but not the one we celebrate - we got married twice, our families only know about the second one...)

buuump!

I'm wondering if some seasoned MB'ers are avoiding your threads because you seem to be seeking WS opinions... the veteran BS's have been in your shoes, and put their marriages back together - although they can't get inside your WH's head (which I think you are looking for). So I hope some of them pop in here before you head out of town.

... anyhoo... here's my vote on the Anniversary thing: Call him. Keep it short and sweet. Try not to get into a deep R discussion.

You're smart for not reading too much into any conversations with him. You're early in the game, and more time and patience is needed.

Have a fun trip, and good luck with everything! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Oops... I am looking for any and all opinions, didn't mean to offend the veteran BSs, your opinions are extremely valuable! You are right, I was looking for some input on what's going on inside his head, but that's not the only thing that might help. Sorry!!

Faith1, thanks for your response, that's a good idea... short and sweet.

Must... have... more... patience!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Hi dearie!

Just to clarify, I don't think you offended anyone at all! I was personally wondering why you haven't had more help, and I was thinking that might be part of it... I dunno...

Plus this is Friday afternoon... and things start slowing down a bit for the weekend.

You should also take it as a compliment (IMO) that MB'ers think you're right on track if they don't post. If you were off track, they'd be jumping in here to help.

So, hang in there! You're doing fine. I know this stuff is hard... the hardest thing most of us have had to go through. You're doing great by venting here, as well as lurking and helping other posters.

{{{{{{Jelly Girl}}}}}}

Have a good weekend!

Faith1-

Thanks so much for your support!! I'll be leaving tomorrow afternoon for the trip to Las Vegas and San Fran... I'll be back next Friday.

Hope you have a great week!