I don't know why this just kind of struck me as being consistent... I was looking at a couple of threads and I see sig lines along the lines of:<p>BH - 46, WW - 43, M - 23
BH - 41, WW - 32, M - 14
BH - 35, WW - 36, M - 17<p>All ficticious examples, but the point being this: it seems that a lot of our WW's met us / married us at a young age.<p>It makes me wonder about this. I question whether that "independent streak", desire for "freedom", etc. comes into play - a sense of rebellion, a sense of "finally getting what I WANT". Selfish, yes. Unhealthy, you bet. But seemingly consistent.<p>I know with my WW, especially earlier on, she talked about needing to spread her wings, and other assorted stuff. Even after I told her I was leaving, she kind of latched onto that song about "freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose".<p>So the Dobson theory about the "trapped feeling" might be very appropriate. And setting WW free is something I've certainly done now with Plan B. Time will tell whether she figures out that "freedom" means either having no-one meeting her EN, or someone else who is already proven to be incapable of it (OM) - but even then, she's not so free with him, if she were to commit to him, like he wants her to (he stated he wants to marry her!!). WS's definition of freedom seems suspect in the fog.<p>Anyhow, just an observation!

JR,<p>I had noticed that in a few cases too, especially since my H and I have been together since we were 17. <p>I always considered us (my H and I) fortunate to have found each other young, not having had to waste years playing the dating game like so many of our friends. Your reasoning about needing to spread one's wings is quite possibly an explanation for my behaviour, but I need to think about it some more first to be sure.<p>What a brilliant realization JR!<p>Jen [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]

JR, you hit the target for me!
BS - 30
WW - 26
M - 7
Dated for 2 years previous.<p>I said many times that I wished I had gotten a chance to live life a bit before settling down. I tried to live that through the affair and obviously that was waaaaaay wrong.

You may be onto somehting JR. My WW & I have known each other since we were 14, married when we were 22, been married 20 years...could be there's something to this theory.

I met my h at 16, he was 17.. he was married briefly... well 3 yrs.. to another hs sweetheart.. he knew before and better than me..> I was a long distan ce gf as we met at a special hs trip to wash. dc. and just totally fell for each other.
well we married at 23 and 24. I thought we were so lucky to finally be togher after the long distance.... relationship issues..e tc. <p>we had our first son right away , I was pg when we married.. but we planned it... we wanted a family... etc.. then we had a nnother son 6 tyrs later, my h has had trouble working and being responsible and wants to be a kid ... !<p>Anyway.. enough sd for now... My 3 yr old is on hyperdriv e.. tearing up the house.<p>hes a boy! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Hugs, Honey [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>]B] All ficticious examples, but the point being this: it seems that a lot of our WW's met us / married us at a young age.[/B] <hr></blockquote><p>My sig line will tell the tale, I guess. But what strikes me about your observation, J.R., is that doesn't society teach us that females mature at a much younger age? Maybe that WAS true, but now maybe psychologists and sociolgists need to rethink the situation......<p>Oh well......got the flame-proof suit on already so here goes....<p>Most of my grandparents, and even my parents married young. Around here that was the norm, instead of the exception. If I remember correctly, my paternal G'Mom was 15, and lived together with G'Pa until death. My maternal G'Mom was 16, and survives today, but was only married to my G'Pa until his death in 1987. But...in the case of my maternal grandparents, my grandfather was a Pastor, and grandmom was a Sunday School teacher.<p>On the other hand, though, my paternal grandparents were not "church-goers".<p>Even my Father was 32 when he married Mom at 19, and was the first and only for both. Dad died in 1990, but Mom is still living. I guess I followed his lead in marrying my wife while she was 18, and I was 27. We had dated steadily for 2 years previous to that.<p>Really, around here where I live, it is real common for the "senior" women in this area to have married somewhere between 14 and 20. Never did see a lot of Dv's in those situations.<p>Could the liberation movement of women years back have contributed to more of a possibility of MLC's in women?<p>I am not a chauvenist (sp?) by any means, but there were times when boundaries were set between men and women in marriages, and they were not crossed. In today's society, and this is just my humble opinion, that marriages today have no sense of structure, if that makes any sense. In that I mean it seems to me that for each party in the marriage, there has to be something, or better yet, the ONE thing, that they feel that THEY contribute to the marriage. Sort of a self-esteem builder, yes, but couldn't that be an important ingredient in a successful marriage? Something that BOTH parties in the marriage feel that they alone give something to the marriage to complete it? Even though I realize that Love is the big picture, along with EN's, shouldn't 2 people "complete" each other instead of "compete" each other?<p>Well hell....I am not making any sense here. I know what I am trying to say, but am having a hard time doing it. And that is going to get me in trouble with something taken out of context, or mis-understood. I better quit.<p>But...before I go, my WW has started doing things at 32 that she never did before, and would have criticized those as recently as 2 years ago. Alcohol is one of them. She NEVER drank in the 16 years we were together, and neither did I. Actually, I never did. (Imagine that for your typical male!). But...recently, even disregarding her 2 year long A, I know for a fact that she has given in to "peer pressure" from the friends around her now. They are in their early to mid twenties, and with her at nearly 33, she is one of the "older" ones in the law office. It was quite often that she would complain about their nagging for her to drink with them (What is it about people that they always have to have someone drink with them to feel comfortable?). They finally got to her, and she has started a little bit of "social" drinking. But her social drinking a couple of times was enough for me to smell it on her, and tell that it had affected her.<p>She could come home from work and tell some pretty wild stories. Whether it was bragging from the other women she worked with, or actual truth, I don't have a clue. But she was convinced, though.<p>I've said enough now that I'll have to lay low for a while.....I can already smell the propane...<p>hcii

JR,<p>Me (BS) married at 25, WH 28<p>I was 19 & WH 22 when we met.<p>We had sowed our wild oas prior to Marriage ( or so I thought - [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] )<p>D.

We were 20, together for 12 years total, married nearly seven. I know my H suddenly started partying (going out and drinking), something we hadn't done in years, gave it up before the kids came along.<p>He was definitely in pursuit of the freedom and younger "me" that he adored so much. That screwed up twenty-one year old with lots of bravado is what he wanted from me.

hcii,
No flames, your observations are very good!
A few minutes spent reading here will tell you that many people would not be in the emotional situations they are in if they looked within themselves and their spouses for fulfillment.<p>Not all marriages should or can be saved, but our society has made it so easy to walk away and consider immoral choices the norm. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Well, I guess we can't all live in a 50's TV show, but we can strive to uphold our morals in our relationships.<p>As for JR's observation, we were H.S. sweethearts and married at 20 and 21, you seem to be on to something!

J.R.<p>FWW and I grew up together in same small town. Started dating at 16 and were married at 21. Neither of us ever "sowed our wild oats." While dating, we talked a few times about taking a break and dating other people. My FWW liked the idea as long as she could date and I would wait. In the end, neither of us were willing to "throw away" our relationship for the chance to date others. In retrospect, I guess that should have been a big red flag, but at the time, I figured we were both young and she just wasn't sure we were "the ones".<p>Anyway, as you can see from my sig, we fit the profile [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]

J.R.<p>I hope I don't sound too pi$$ed off here, but:<p>My W was 19 when I met her, I was 21. When we got M'd, she was 21 and I was 22, soon to be 23. Reason I'm a bit tweaked is that my WW uses this "We got M'd too soon" as an excuse for her A, because that's all it is so far as I can tell - the fog won't thin enough to look into the "logic" of that statement, if there is any. <p>And I'm tweaked, because, if she's so sure that getting M'd young is such a bad thing to do, why did she start her first A with her OM when HE was pretty newly M'd? He got M'd when he was 20 and his W was 19, and started having an A with my W when he was only 25.<p>I can make no sense of all of this, and I don't think there is any. So I'm not going to waste any more time speculating about it. If my W and I can rebuild our M based on who we are now and what we can have together, then I'll feel like I've accomplished something in life. If not, I'm going to find out as soon as possible so I can find me a nice young W to start over with! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] (now, hcii, it's MY turn to get flamed!!!)

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> My W was 19 when I met her, I was 21. When we got M'd, she was 21 and I was 22, soon to be 23. Reason I'm a bit tweaked is that my WW uses this "We got M'd too soon" as an excuse for her A, because that's all it is so far as I can tell - the fog won't thin enough to look into the "logic" of that statement, if there is any. <hr></blockquote><p>2Long,<p>Looks like we're at the same rodeo.<p>My WW as of late has said the EXACT same thing. That philosophy kicked in about 3 weeks after I found out about the A. Why? Because after she figured out real quick that I wasn't going to take the blame, and she darned well couldn't put it anywhere else, and she couldn't FIND any skeletons on me (well...she did try...but sounded crazy), where else but to go to HER past.<p>What kind of answer or rebuttal can you or I come up with when the WW says she'll take the blame, but it's because of something she did 15 or 20 years ago? OK...she's taken the blame, which is what you and I desperately need to hear, then comes that......BUT....because of something YEARS ago! So, in essence, mine has indirectly taken the blame, but transferred it to another place and time. Not to mention that she can try to put a little blame on me since by putting it on the marriage "time", she is placing blame on me, too. I can see through that. With that technique, I can't argue. I am pretty sure I was at my wedding. Hence...IT'S YOUR FAULT , TOO!!!<p>The one that "gets my goat", as we say here, is that "compatible" excuse. Well....she says, " We are not compatible". "OM is just like me". Da*ned right he is. Can't argue that....My WW and the OM BOTH have no sense of morals. Both are liars. Neither has respect for their respective spouses, or children if there are any.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> If not, I'm going to find out as soon as possible so I can find me a nice young W to start over with! (now, hcii, it's MY turn to get flamed!!!) <hr></blockquote><p>Hey....I'm standing in the flames with you , my man.....I may be 41, but I'll do it the same way again should the opportunity arise.<p>I have heard around here to "get 'em young....that way you can raise 'em the way you want 'em.... [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I'll be darned if I didn't do a pi$$ poor job at it...... [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] (NOW we're talking bonfire style flames!<p>hcii

my WW married at 20, I started dating her at 18. Now she says she wants more freedom.

HEY...dangit...I told you about this already!! Women go through a "mid life crisis" of sorts (my counselor called it the 30 year transition) somewhere in the early 30's. A Woman's Book of Life talks about it quite a bit. The restless, is this good enough for the rest of my life feeling...the desire to be desireable and have fun again...the need for independance to confirm they're capable etc... I would suspect that women have ALWAYS had these feelings...but that in the past there weren't as many viable options. You dealt with it...and went on. Now, we have too many choices :-)

My WW has been in this "crisis" for about 5 years now. Does it occur at around age 30 or a few years after the first child is born? <p>My take on it is that it is the being couped up with the young kid(s) that sends them into this mode and not just a general mid-life crisis. There must be a reason people get this way. Mothering sounds like a great reason to me.<p>Just a thought.<p>Sweden

I married late and met my H when I was 30. He was 24 (didn't know it at the time, he looked closer to 28 or 29). <p>Here is a thougth regarding our parents and grandparents staying married. Back then, it was rare when a couple divorced. Women typically did not work, so they stayed in M when the H was unfaithful (I don't know if the occurance of infidelity is higher now or we are just more aware).<p>I dated a man that came from a larger family. His oldest brother was 20 years older than him. His father was not faithful to his mom. Had many different girlfriends throughout the marriage. His mom at one time check into divorcing him. The attorney back then told her, that she would not get much in financial support, and with her income, she would have a hard time supporting her kids, she would be better off sticking it out if she could (he was also physically abusive). <p>By the time the kids were grown and moved out, he stopped being unfaithful (he was sick with cancer), so she still stayed with him.<p>Also, unless I am mistaken, divorces were harder to obtain, and the women was typically blamed if her H strayed. She was not being a good wife and mother. Divorce was also a disgrace, so most women endured circumstances that would not be endured today. Also, how would a single divorced mom support her children, most women did not work. Most changes in the work place regarding women occured during the 70's. When a women got married she was expected to quit her job. If she was allowed to work after marriege, some companies required a women to quit working when she got pregnant. Some of this information I received from a coworker a few years back. Her dad was a manager of a deparment in a large food corporation, and she said that her dad told her that alot of women would hide their pregnancies for as long as they could. Once they were pregnant they were expected to quit. (So we have come a long way baby)<p>Just another take on this

I agree Sue. I think it still happend plenty, only there weren't as many options (not EASY ones) for women back then. So they stayed married.<p>I think there also seems to be a similiar pattern with the wayward men being in their mid to late 40's. People automatically figure in MLC for that, but the 30 year transition isn't as heard of for women.

H4F, do you happen to know the author's name for that "A Woman's Book of Life"? (Sounds enlightening!)

Joan Borysenko<p>My counselor had recommended it a couple of years ago, and it really was interesting! It also gives me a clue in to my next life cycle (she says women go through them every 7 years or so).<p>I'll quote an excerpt:<p>In early and middle adulthood the process of adolescing, or growing up, coexists with the process of senescing, or growing down, periods when our life structures go in to decline. The life structure is defined as a boundry between ourselves and the external world that functions as framework for occupational and family relationships. It is composed of our hopes and dreams, values and talents. How will we fit into the world? What is important to us? What will make us happy?<p>The period that spans the late teens to mid fourties is one of building the life structure for our adulthood. The early thirties are what he calls a "structure-changing or transitional period that terminates the existing life structure and creates the possibility for a new one". .....<p>The major task involved in the age thirty transition, which Levinson found to span the years between 28 and 32, is the exploration of new possibilities and the finishing up of old business that may be getting in the way of a woman's continued growth.<p>Inherent in reevaluating what Levinson calls our "necessarily flawed" early life structures, are nagging questions about how to combine work and family, whether to combine work and family, and whether early marriage partnerships are working out. These questions may be further confounded by the stress of infertility. Many women in their 30's want to be mothers, but either can't conceive or have trouble carrying the pregnancy to term. Will they persevere in trying to concieve or alter their life plan? Central to a woman's age thrity transition is the question "what do I really want?"<p>etc....

BTW...women go through another major life cycle between the ages of 42-49, called the Midlife Metamorphosis. Atleast now I'm WARNED!! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]