M<p>[ June 26, 2002: Message edited by: Ray ]<p>[ June 26, 2002: Message edited by: Ray ]</p>

This is going to be hard for both of you. What she is feeling is normal, the only way you can restore her trust is to hang in there and be open and honest. Anxiety is probably killing your W right now, you should probably get into MC right away. Good Luck.

I know exactly how your wife feels right now. I'm sure she has interpreted some of what you have said to her as protective the of ow. (ie-don't do anything that would make her lose her job.) That hurts more than you can understand. A husband should protect his wife above all others. She wants you to not care if she loses her job.<p>If I had the opportunity to get my h's xow deported, I would in a heart beat. Even though the A is over, her presence in my town is makes me uncomfortable. <p>I suspected that h's xow was using him. I felt the need to protect him and prove to him what a horrible person she is. (Wasn't hard to do in my case. Xow is psycho!) She wants you to see what ow is. I felt if my H knew how bad she was, he wouldn't return to the a. I was/am angry at him for being so gullible. I suspect some of that anger from her may be the same. She also may feel that you are not being totally honest with her. That scares her. When one is "smacked upside the head" with revelation that their spouse has committed adultery, the fear of going through that again is terrifying.<p>Reassure her that you are being honest and express your sorrow over what has happened. I know that God is in control of our lives and when I stepped in and tried to take over His job of handling the situation, it always came back to bite me in the you know where. She's very, very hurt and she needs to calm down before she does something she'll regret. (You don't need to be the one to tell her to calm down. A trusted friend could do wonders.)<p>You can't be on the same page right now. Don't ever say to her that her tracking down the ow is tearing your marriage apart. (My head would have exploded if my h said that to me!) She sees it as YOUR affair and dishonesty is tearing your marriage apart. She's at a place you can't begin to imagine. Just love her and be patient as much as is possible.

How long ago was D-day for you? My H called me up with threats of going to see the OM, knock some teeth out, and so on for awhile after D-day. There is no way to respond to the things that are said to you sometimes. You could get accused of protecting her, still seeing her, etc. if you don't just let your wife do what she needs to right now. My H realized it would be better for him in the long run not to do what he was threatening. It wasn't going to help the situation any, that's for sure.<p>On the flip side, I'm amazed no one has mentioned how badly this woman is LBing you.

Ok here go my two cents,<p>1- Yup. Your W is royaly pissed, and therefore she will LB her head out if she can. She is taking the frustration and anger of the A into your R with OW.<p>2- The way to punch the withdrawal out of you is to show you what a slug OW is. She wants you to hate her as much as she hates her. She doesn't want you to hold any candles or have any nice memmories of her. She wants that R completely gone.<p>3- She is obsessing because she is focusing all the anger into this quest. She will search any info she can on her own, hunt hints down, and go see the OW even.<p>I have good news and bad news.<p>The bad news are that 1) your W is lbing, just as findingmywayback said.
2) She still feels threatened, and that you are somehow defending the OW. Forbiding her to tell OW her name, or cause an scene in her work place makes your W real mad and convinced you are protecting your exlover. She may be all threats, but if you just say "Love, I will stand behind you on whatever you decide to do" she may never even go and see the ow at all. She is testing you.<p>3) She aint done testing, and she won't be untill she decided she has enough proof that you won't turn around and leave, and nobody knows when that will be.<p>The good news:<p>You are taking it well taking into account the LB's and withdrawal.

Thanks <p>
[ June 26, 2002: Message edited by: Ray ]<p>[ June 26, 2002: Message edited by: Ray ]<p>[ June 26, 2002: Message edited by: Ray ]</p>

Hi Ray,<p>Sounds like you and your wife are having a hard time. I'm wondering what MB concepts you have used? Did you fill out the EN & LB questionnaires, are you spending time together, are you following the 4 rules of marriage, etc. <p>I can understand your W's pain. She's acting the way she is because of this pain. She needs to work through this and she needs your help in doing so. Seems to me like you're fighting her on this instead of supporting her. You say it's her right to be angry and that you'll take it. But are you? Sounds to me like you're angry yourself. Why? What she is doing doesn't even come close to what you did and it's as a result of what you did. Do you understand this?<p>I cut and pasted from different posts on this site. Hope it helps.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Your wife has been compared to another woman. Everything she is, everything she does, her body, her face, her mind, her mothering capabilities, the kind of wife she is. . .that has become a contest that she must compete in. The thing is, she never filled out the entry form for this contest herself. . .you did that for her. You sampled all the wares, you compared her with another, you judged her. How in the world do you think that makes her feel? Like a loser. Like she was so inadequate, you had to seek for more than she was already giving you. In her mind, she probably thinks that what she was giving you was more than enough, and you proved her wrong by what you did. That is heartbreaking for a person.
Don't you want her to be the winner? You have to prove to her that she IS the winner, you have to remind her in a million ways what she does for you, how special she is, how you appreciate her, how pretty she is, what a great mom she is, how much you enjoy her company, ect. Don't just tell her "sorry" and then go out and buy her meaningless gifts to satiate her, or spend time with her that you don't go out of your way to make fun and enjoyable. <hr></blockquote><p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>It never hurts for a betrayed wife to be reassured that you are not secretly longing for OW, or treasuring memories of the affair. Her need for information has to do with trying to figure out who she is married to, and who you are now. That kind of questioning will go on for a while, whatever you do, don't get annoyed, impatient or defensive. <hr></blockquote><p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Be strong for her - Don't give up on her. You've created this mess, and she's having to turn to YOU of all people to help her out of it. Surely you understand how hurtful that is, and how strong your wife has to be in order to even entrust you with this undertaking. <hr></blockquote><p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I think if you back off and realize this isn't all about YOU but also about her pain you just may realize that there can be hope for this marriage and it could become one you both enjoy. <hr></blockquote><p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Prepare to comfort her when she is angry. This time, you kind of don't have a right to be angry in return--admit to her as many times as it will take that you screwed up, you made a terrible mistake and you are sorry. It might take a zillion times before she believes it.<hr></blockquote><p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> When she is angry, don't run away, don't withdraw or hide. Don't try to defend or justify yourself. Just apologize. Say I don't blame you for being angry. Ask her if there is anything you can do to help her with the angry feelings. And don't worry, those feelings will ebb, especially if you can face them and help her through it. Her being able to express those feelings to you are part of the process of her healing. <hr></blockquote><p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Every time you share a private moment about the OW with your W, you are making a hole in the affair...Understand THAT and you are ahead of the game." <hr></blockquote><p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> In a way, she's testing you, testing your stability, support, willingness to be able to love her despite all of your combined troubles. But, unfortunately, the results of the test are showing her something that will not bring her security or happiness. <p>She needs an anchor. She needs a friend more than a lover right now.
<hr></blockquote><p>H&S

Hurt&Sad,<p>You made a wonderful assortment of quotes, bravo!
I agree with it all.<p>Brad,<p>The fact that you may never hate OW is something nobody can change. The fact that you can choose in between deffending your wife's feelings or the OW is different and yet nobody can do anything about it but you.<p>Your wife needs her best friend, confidant and partner. She needs YOU to show her you are on her side. She needs you to reassure her that no matter what happens you will love her.<p>She is feeling very worthless and you are really not helping much. If the OW is staying illegaly in the U.S. and obtaining a residency through fraudulent marriage I really don't feel much respect for her, and I will tell you why. Thousands of people marry U.S. citizens every year for the right reasons. They love each other they want to be together, and so, they marry. People like the OW, (again IF she is marrying for the wrong reasons), only create more obstacles for the rightful applicants for fiancee visas, and residencies to stay with their spouses.<p>That said, I don't think your W would do that. Could you try, even for a second to get on her shoes???<p>Imagine she did the same to you, wouldn't you be terribly angry? (also imagine you were always faithful). Wouldn't you feel humiliated? Wouldn't you like her to forsake OM? <p>Your W might sound outrageous, but when people loose all that is dear to them, when their reality shatters and the person they love and trusted over every single human being on the universe wounds them to death... they tend to get very defensive.

Ray, I don't understand something here and may be just completely missing something, but why is she still searching for facts if you are being completely open and honest with her? I can't understand her behavior if you have laid all the facts out to her with no holds barred. There would no reason to research your cell phone calls or wonder WHY you are calling the hotel. Why is this going on?

To
[ June 26, 2002: Message edited by: Ray ]<p>[ June 26, 2002: Message edited by: Ray ]</p>

Ray,<p>Take it from a WS who is almost 4 months into this. What you have heard on this tread is amazing advice. You must ride the wave of her anger and whatever feelings she goes through. Things will continue to level off and get better if you and she are both committed to repairing your marriage. Last night my wife wanted to know all the good/bad things about the OW. She wanted a comparison of her to the OW. He self esteem has been blown apart. It is our job to repair it and be supportive. <p>Oh...and as far as disliking the OW. She dumped you and that isn't nice!!! or is it? Did you a favor!! Hate her man!! Hate her and remove her from your path! Focus on your wife!! It may take a couple of months!! <p>Good luck. Search my treads if you wish some more advice from these amazing women on this board who have been betrayed and offer great wisdom. Be tough and stick with this. <p>
Riding the Wave in PA!!!

dear ray-i commend you for being here and getting help with probably the most difficult situation immaginable-who am i kidding, we could never have imagined this kind of hurt and destruction.<p>i have been reading the thread and your last reply sounded-a bit-frustrated. please dont get more frustrated by me saying this,but is it possible you also get this way with your wife when she askes thing over and over and doesnt get it. if you are not aware of the way you sound, you should be. i mean this in a very supportive way.<p>now, onto the problem. all this being said, if your wife wants to meet the other woman, you should not only get out of her way, you should drive her! this isnt about you or the other woman, this is about your wife trying not to drown in the sea of emotions that took her over when she found out you were unfaithfull. you have no idea what it is like unless you have been in our shoes. have you?? if not then start listening to what everyone here is telling you-you have gotten some great advice. you need to allow her to find out what is going to heal her heart and soul, she will probably try to do anything to make the pain go away, some will work temporarily, some wont work at all. she still needs your support in trying.<p>good luck

Okay, that makes sense. I needed more info. Still, going to see the OW might blow up in your W's face, that's my main concern. She could come away feeling worse...

Ray,<p>Please excuse me if I sound harsh in my posts I am just rather honest and cut to the chase, that said...<p>1) I don't think your wife will do most of the BIG stuff she threatens with, but she is YOUR wife, and you should know if she tends to do stuff like that.<p>2) If you are being that sincere and willing with info about OW, bravo! It takes a lot of courage to do things that are right but very painful. Took me 3 years to squeeze every truth out of my WH and that hurt more than hearing it all at once, believe me, it did.<p>3)If you don't hate the OW is irrelevant and not the point. You have to stop caring what OW is doing, and anything going on on her life. You have to remove yourself sentimentally from anything having to do with her.<p>4) By telling your W not to contact OW you are sending signals that say: "Do not contact my exlover, because I believe you are not fit to talk to her, don't harm my exlover with your crazy words". You didn't say that, I know, but if you said it while your wife told you she was going over to see OW right then, then I can tell you it did sound like that to her.<p>5) The trust your wife once had in you is gone, buh bye, never more. She will be careful to believe anything you say, even "The Earth is round". She has to deal with the trauma of an spouse being unfaithful, and you have to deal with your own doings that affected your wife this way.<p>Ray, man, I am sorry, it is tough, but believe me it is tougher to be a BS, because she didn't "sign-in" for the ride you have shoved her into. You sneaked up on her, and then while she thought you were the man she could trust, you proved her wrong.<p>You HAVE to be patient. She will have anxiety attacks here and there and I bet everytime she see a Target sign she'll have a trigger and get mad. <p>You have gotten more than you bargained for when you decided to cross the line and have an Affair. Maybe you didn't know or didn't foresee the situation you are in now. <p>But either way, it was your decision, your doing, now you will have to deal with the mess you made and clean it. <p>Be brave.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Ray:
<strong><p>One last point, If my W had confronted the OW with all sorts of crap that wasn't true I am sure the OW would have contacted me.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>
Ray,<p>Thanks for setting the record straight. However, your wife still might confront the OW and it really doesn't matter if the entire story is straight or not. She has the important aspects straight, and that is enough. And yes, the OW might very well contact you, regardless of whether or not your wife talks to her. That is the fallout of YOUR behavior, not your wife's. There are consequences to affairs and this is one of them. You will just have to handle it. Your wife did not invite this woman into her life, remember that.

Ray,<p>In one of your posts you stated
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> I did not tell my W I was concerned for the OW job. <hr></blockquote>
But in your original post you said
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> I had one request, that she not identify who she was to the OW. I didn&#8217;t want there to be a scene at the OW&#8217;s place of business. It could get her fired. <hr></blockquote><p>That is basically saying that you still care about what happens to the OW. You should care less if she gets fired. Any signs of my H even having a little bit of concern for his OW sends me through the roof (thank god that doesn't happen anymore). <p>Ray,
Do yourself a favor and prove yourself to your wife
REPORT THE OW TO INS YOURSELF!!!!!!!!<p>DU

I think there is a very big difference between protecting the OW - at the expense of the BS - and in HARMING the OW. There is no call for Ray to harm and punish the OW for doing something in which he was an active participant. That is crazy. <p>And if Ray thinks his BS is going to Target to create a scene or might become violent, then it is up to him to put a stop to it and talk some sense into the BS. It is not protecting the BS, in any sense of the word, to allow her to do something that will get her tossed into jail. Nor is it realistic to expect Ray to "hate" someone for doing something that HE was doing. That is simply not realistic.

I think I'm missing something here. Why should Ray turn the xOW into INS? What good does that do? He too was an active participant in the affair. The xOW didn't do it all alone. Why punish and possibly ruin her life by having her deported? I'm sorry, please explain how this will make his W feel like he totally loves her and not the xOW? To me this makes them just plain 'mean' people. I guess I was raised two wrongs don't make a right.<p>Like I said, I may be missing something here since I don't know the entire story. But turning her in just sounds down right vindictive to me. <p>RW

Thank<p>[ June 26, 2002: Message edited by: Ray ]</p>

Ray,<p>I'm a FWW, I know what you are going through. I too, at one time, thought maybe my H was better off without me and maybe it would be for the best for me to take our 2 kids and start over. But try to hang in there. And I will disagree with anyone who says the trust is gone forever. That is not true with all people. My H and I have gotten through my EMA and we are probably the happiest married couple we both know. We have just learned to not take each other for granted anymore. <p>I had to go on a business trip to a town that was 1 hour from where my xOM lives and my H trusted me COMPLETELY! He knows I am totally, 100%, madly in love with him and the thought of contacting the xOM when I was away never once entered my mind. <p>But there is NO WAY my H or I would have ever purposely hurt the xOM. And believe me my H could have destroyed his business if he so desired. But we aren't like that. Like my H told me what would be the point of hurting the xOM, it's not like I was raped. I too was an active participant in the affair. My H blamed me just as much as he blamed the xOM when it all came out in the open.<p>Just hang in there. All you can do is show your W that you are committed to her and only her. Sure you're going to say the wrong things from time to time. But don't all married couples even those who havn't gone through an affair? It's just your words will be disected more now, but that too will lessen in time. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>RW