Well the old trust she had is gone, now what is left is to build trust from the very bottom.<p>I know it sounds depressing, but, you see, when one starts dating somebody new they don't trust them as much as if they have been together for years.<p>The problem with making huge mistakes is that we can shatter something terribly valuable and special in a matter or seconds.<p>Ray, remember this saying, "There is a way to mend everything, everything but death".<p>Hang in there and work hard. <p>Just a note:<p>I agree that blowing the whistle to the INS respecting the OW is not something constructive to do. Whatever paths she chooses and wherever she decides to go is her own business and neither you or your wife should be involved.<p>I can see you are really trying to rebuild your marriage, but as I said I am very cut to the chase and honest and that might come across as pesimist or angry, which believe me I am not [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Be strong, courageous, and calm.<p>You can do this, but also be careful. If the LB's of your wife do nothing but scalate even though you keep trying your best then it means she may have some anger management problems and would benefit for IC and MC either way.<p>[ June 25, 2002: Message edited by: Alostwife ]</p>

I have to agree with Rob's wife, trust is not gone forever. A big part of character is admitting when you are wrong and making amends. That is what Ray is doing here. He is now being honest about his past deceit. THAT is how one rebuilds trust. <p>It takes a lot of courage to admit such a thing and is no easy feat! I wonder sometimes if I would have the character to admit an affair and face the horrific fallout that some of these WS' face. I have much admiration for folks like that.

The<p>[ June 26, 2002: Message edited by: Ray ]</p>

Ray,
To answer your question <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> What would my W think of me If I turned in the OW and she was deported? Better yet how about if I cut her brake lines. <hr></blockquote><p>If it were my H and I in the same situation I would take it as his effort to get the OW out of our lives and as far away from us as possibe and it would show me that he cares about how I feel about OW. I never said anything about "cutting the OW brake lines". The point I was trying to make is first of all what she is doing is illegal! I personally am proud I live in the USA and I am not very happy when people come here illegally, don't pay taxes, etc. how is that fair to anyone who lives here that is a U.S. citizen? Why doesn't she just go for citizenship? There is a big difference!<p>My second point is that most WS's that choose to reconcile come home and go through this horrible ordeal of recovery, so in a sense they pay for their mistake. They go through feelings of remorse, they feel and see the pain they put their spouse through. What about the OP that in most cases knowingly became involved with a married person? They walk away lives still intact, no consequenses for their actions? To me this is ridiculous. My H became involved with a woman that knew he was married and didn't give a hoot! She came into our lives with full intention of being a homewrecker with no concious(at least that is how I see it). Now that she is gone what has she lost, besides my H(who was never hers in the first place). She goes on with her life and the new MM she is dating now to rip more lives apart. If someone breaks into your home and steals your possessions they will go to jail, not be set free and allowed to break into your neighbors home. I am not saying there is cause for violence towards the OW but an opportunity for JUSTICE like that, I'd be on the phone with INS in a heart beat. And now that my H is out of the fog he feels the same way!<p>DU

Perhaps
[ June 26, 2002: Message edited by: goodb ]<p>[ June 26, 2002: Message edited by: goodb ]</p>

((((Ray))))<p>Just concentrate on your W. I am sorry she asks those questions, but eventually she'll run out of questions to ask.<p>Stay strong and stay true.<p>You can get through this.

Ray,<p>Alostwife is so correct. The questions will go away after a while, hang in there. Just answer her questions no matter how much you know the answer will hurt. Be there for her and show her that you are not holding anything back and that you will answer any question that she asks. This is what she needs right now. Believe me I know how this is tearing you up inside, but you can do it. <p>RW

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Ray:
<strong><p>Well I just got off the phone With the W. She asked another one of those questions. You know the kind that are gonna hurt her. She hung up on me in tears again.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Ray, I agree that it serves no purpose to turn the OW into the INS. Your W will rightfully have hard feelings towards her but it is unrealistic for you to have the same feelings. You don't have to destroy the OW to prove your committment to your wife. Nor should you.<p>Why did your wife hang up in tears? Because you told her the truth or because you evaded her questions? I know it's hard, but the easiest way to get through this is to buckle down and give the whole truth. She will sense it if you withhold stuff and just keep on until she gets it all out. <p>Withholding will only prolong the pain. If you withhold I guarantee that this will be dragged out and you will both die a death of a thousand cuts. Better to take the hit now in one full blow so you can both start on recovery and get it behind you. <p>Ray, can you send her here so we can help her? We might be able to help her and that would make things a little easier on you. Are you going to marriage counseling? <p>
And please don't let this all get you down. You did something wrong [as we all do] but you are doing the right thing now. And what a high price you are paying! Hang in there, Ray.

It's been 5 months since D-day, and I still have questions, mainly ones that have been answered already. I dont think they ever really go away, we just reach a level of acceptance and know the answer isn't really going to be productive to our recovery.

Hang in there Ray, I have been in the position you are in, you are handling very well, and with a lot of compassion. The other posters are right, the questions will die down eventually and her anger will begin to cool. She won't forget, and it might take a long time to forgive. Try not to focus on that, you can earn trust back, if you really want to. It will take a long time and a lot of work on your part. That is what you sign up for when you are discovered in an affair, and rightly so. <p>You are doing great, hang in there.

Turning her into the INS would be worse than having an affair! I hope you did not say this to your wife. You know the problem I see is that you are still protecting and caring about the OW too much; this is probably why your w is reacting the way she is. The goal is not for you to hate the OW but to be indifferent. And you are very far from that.<p>[ June 25, 2002: Message edited by: KalGrl ]</p>

Ray,<p>I know it hurts you to see your wife in pain. Sometimes the truth is very ugly, and it frustrates a BS to learn all that they thought was true is just pure smoke.<p>Everytime she hears a honest answer she gets sad, then upset, it is a flash of pain and jealousy. You shared things with OW that were meant to be sacred between man and wife.<p>Don't worry, it is completely normal, she is highly emotional and will cry and hung up, but eventually she'll re-consider and apologize, (or so I'd hope, because I was there did that and I apologized to my WH).<p>Have some patience and be strong.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by KalGrl:
<strong>The goal is not for you to hate the OW but to be indifferent. <p>[ June 25, 2002: Message edited by: KalGrl ]</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Ray, please listen to Kalgrl because it will save you untold grief. As you have discovered, it sets your wife off IN A BIG WAY if she perceives that you are protecting the OW in any way. She desperately needs for you to demonstrate that you are MORE concerned with protecting HER and care nothing about protecting the OW. As long as you are protecting the OW [or are perceived as such] you are not protecting and placing your W first.<p>An indifferent attitude toward the OW is the answer and a PROTECTIVE stance towards your wife is the answer for her. We are trying to help save your neck here, so please pay close attention to this bit of advice.

If I know someone who is breaking the law and I don't report that, I am as guilty as the one breaking the law. This woman is here illegally and I must say not benefitting our society by her presence here. What is wrong that she can't obtain legal permission to be here? Is the boyfriend she has now married too? Has she considered that HER behavior will affect others?<p>Ray, earlier you said that you wondered if your wife considered what you would think of her if she turned in this person breaking the law. Now imagine what she thinks of your behavior! <p>I remember how horrible it was when I was at the place she is now. Every minute seems like hours and you wonder when you'll wake up from the nightmare. I'm sorry Ray but it seems like you're unable to help her very much. Please be patient and honest with her.

Ray,<p>Guess now it's my turn. I too am a woman in complete turmoil no thanks to my husband and all he has brought to our marriage. We were married barely 2 years and he faltered. My biggest question is how can I believe in him again...and I am sure that is the same question your wife has. It's hard. That just about sums it up. The life you are leading as well as the life your wife now leads is so torn it is unimaginable on where to start putting the pieces together. <p>My husband, like you insists he is being totally honest now and has no contact with the OW. Yea, right....when can I ever believe in him again after all that happened when "I thought" things were good.....now things are just awful and I am supposed to believe he isn't running to her. To know (like your wife) that there is a willing participant you (like my husband) can run to when things are bad is an awful reminder of what we live on a day to day basis. If all humans out there could just hear the words "I'm married" and back off would save so many relationships and endless pain. I know she is just lurking out there...and if not her, than someone else and that is what keeps me from tearing down those walls that are once again up between my husband and I. <p>I love him with everything in me but so many of our wonderful memories are now diminished by..."did you laugh this much with her?"...."you sent me roses...you sent her roses...how will it ever feel when he sends roses to me again"....<p>Just be patient...as all the other posters have said. It is such a long road ahead, and like her asking herself is it worth the pain...you too must ask yourself are you in it for the long haul...."good times and bad, better or worse"....she went through hell (and still is) and never even got to prepare for what she was about to learn. Now you must ask yourself if you are ready to go through the hell she did, and support her through it all. Good luck and don't give up!!

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Believe it or not turning her in would not only have an effect on her, but on many other inocent victims. Children, Family and Friends. Would you have considered that? <hr></blockquote><p>Would she have considered the obvious? Being in the U.S. legally! Sounds like a self-inflicted problem to me. That is like saying "I committed a robbery, but please don't turn me in because I have family, children, and friends that would be devastated if I go to jail." The law is the law, would you harbor a criminal in your home?<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> It just seems to me that doing that would be just as moral as having an affair only worse. <hr></blockquote><p>Once again, having an affair is immoral but not illegal. reporting an illegal citizen is the only right thing to do as a US citizen(regardless of whether you had an A with that person or not). Illegel citizens are undermining wages for citizens and legal residents and have strained city public services because they do not pay taxes. Contractors hiring illegal citizens compete unfairly for contracts because of labor cost savings. Issues such as immigrants who jump bond and flee the country, which would justify different detention treatment. All of theese things cost taxpayers millions of dollars a year that I would rather see spent on my childs education.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> I never set out to purposly hurt my wife and family when I was having the A. <hr></blockquote>
The only thing that could come out of having an A is hurt, that is common sense.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Calling the INS would be. It just seems so Evil. <hr></blockquote>
Calling INS would not be evil, like I said before it is the only right thing to do, as a U.S. citizen. So many of us Americans are so quick to judge what are goverment does and DOESN'T do for us, but when it comes time to speak up for our rights, silence is all too often what we hear!<p>I don't mean to sound evil, as you put it, I guess it is just the legal side coming out of me. And I don't now nor I will I ever suggest violence as the answer. I also don't mean to sound vengeful, it is just very upsetting to see that there is someone out there as immoral as your OW not only did she have an A with a MM but she could care less what laws she breaks in this great country of ours, sounds kind of selfish if you ask me.<p>DU

I agree with DU on reporting to the INS.<p>And I hope your wife considers doing it, and that you will support her if she does. She has a perfect opportunity to get the OW out of her community, and out of her life, and I hope your wife takes it!<p>I think one of the other factors working against you is that you didn't end this affair. The OW did. So how is she ever going to feel like you want her? She's going to feel like 2nd choice.<p>So if she is raging against OW -- she definitely wants to hear that you see what she sees, that you wish it had never happened, and that she is your first choice. <p>GL.

Ray/GoodB,<p>Why did you change the subject and your user name? Just curious.<p>DU