I have to leave for a while. But I will check this out in the morning. I really appreciate all the help -- even the tough no-nonsense talk. Thank you

The feeling of new love, AHHHHH, what a wonderful feeling. We alll want that feeling. <p>You can have that with you wife. I recently rediscovered it with my H. <p>Court your wife as if you were dating. Plan a special evening for her. One she will never forget. Bring her flowers if she likes flowers. <p>You have expressed that you do not what to leave your wife. Don't tempt yourself<p>Please read the posts. An emotional affair can sneak up on you.

Your friend is in a rocky Marriage. My Marriage is/was rocky. I would not leave because of the children. If my friend would have behaved as you, I would have been flattered. I might have been tempted to grab at something I cannot have with someone else. Something very wrong. Even strong people have weak moments. Sometimes we forget what is important to satisfy the immediate hunger. Then we have regret.

Tempted - you came to the right place. Some of the replies received were replies of warning. No one here wants to see anyone else go through the pain and anguish that we have gone through. <p>Everyone suffers in an affair.

Sadly, I'm thinking you haven't really 'heard' anything anyone here has said. You don't have to have sex with someone for it to be an affair. Online affairs happen all the time! You are emotionally involved with this MARRIED WOMAN!!! You are also in denial, so...to be honest, until you are ready to hear it or your wife catches you; you won't change.

Dear Tempted,<p>It is a good thing that you found MB. Before you go any further in your relationship with this woman, please do some reading about infidelity on the main MB web site. I will put in some links for a quick tutorial. There are hours of reading available that will help you understand what the people who are trying to help you here are telling you. I am also adding a link to a thread by a man named mmseekingadvice. Your story sounds SO MUCH like his. <p>Tempted, no ifs, ands, or buts about it. You are having an affair. It is called an emotional affair, and it is just as immoral and totally disrespectful to your wife and to your marriage vows as a physical affair. Whether or not you see it that way does not change the fact that what I am saying is true. <p>As others have asked you (and we would like to hear your truthful answer), would it be OK with you if your wife were behaving in exactly the same way you are with another man? Would you consider them just friends? He was just filling an empty spot in her life? Would you do the things you do with this woman in front of your mom, dad, pastor, wife, or kids? If you cannot answer a wholehearted "yes," then what you are doing is wrong no matter what you call it.<p>Please check these links and do some reading. Do yourself a favor and avoid all contact with this woman until you have spent a week here with the Harleys and the folks on this forum. Read with an open mind and learn about what a healthy marriage is really like. If we seem harsh, it is because we truly do know what we are talking about and want you to avoid a devastatingly painful experience. <p>Best wishes,
Estes<p>
Infidelity - by Dr. Harley <p>mmseekingadvice thread<p>Tempted, you can do a search for mmseekingadvice's posts by searching by his member number which is 16930. His posts start in February.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> What does this woman fill: That is hard question for me to answer. A sense of being in love for love's sake, I guesss.
The feeling I get when I watch Moonstruck, or Harry met Sally. That feeling of being in love, the newness of love.<hr></blockquote><p>Since I have read through posts on here that most people think it is difficult to have SF when they are NOT in love, I would think that it would be difficult to NOT have SF when you ARE in love!<p>Then again, if something in your conscience is needing for you to ask people if it is OK to do something, then your conscience is telling you NOT to do it. Or you wouldn't be coming here for approval. Or our thoughts......'Cause YOUR thoughts have ALREADY given you the answer. You're just trying to ignore them.....<p>'Nuff said........<p>
hcii

I have to add my 2 cents<p>My H of 10 years came home one night and told me he wanted a divorce because he "loved me but wasn’t in love with me anymore” swore to me that he wasn’t having an A. 2 weeks later I found her number and found out they had been "friends" for about a month. She is also married and "was having problems" and they are "very much alike" and she "understands him" and she told him that they could be "soul mates". Ok as soon as her H found out about my H she stopped all contact with my H. They didn’t not have a physical relationship - he tells me that they only Kissed a few times and met in a parking lot to "talk about there marriage problems". <p>Let me tell you - we didn’t have problems that couldn’t be worked out until he stopped talking to me and started talking to her. I could have almost handled it better if they had slept together with no emotional attachment but he was emotionally attached to her and it has been a long hard 4 month and I'm still not sure if were going to recover. To this day he honestly doesn’t think he cheated on me but the hurt and betrayal of trust eats at me everyday. Even if we recover our marriage I will never trust him completely again and if I move to a new relationship I will never be able to give complete trust to any person again. <p>Don’t do this to your wife, children, family - get away from this woman, figure out why your attracted to her and look to improve that aspect in your marriage. It is not worth the pain and heart ache you will cause the people you truly love if they find out.<p>[ June 25, 2002: Message edited by: rdvpmm ]</p>

Tempted;<p>So far you have gotten advice from some of the most respected folks on this board. They have been here for a long time (unfortunately) because their marriages "were rocky." We are here because we are trying to improve our marriages. Most of us have been in the infiedelity in one way or another. Kepp telling us why you don't think you're doing a bad thing and the responses to your question may take on a HOT new FLAMING approach. I'm not trying to be arrogant; but, I suggest you look over the ENTIRE website and read the Harley principles and then come back and tell us if you think you are having an affair or not.<p>You feel "connected" to this woman. Like "if only we had met in another place another time." We hear ya, it's called the FOG. You are trying to rationalize to us and to yourself why this isn't a bad thing. OK, how would it be if another man had to bring your wife home and was holding her hand, running his hand through her hair and kissing her on the lips? Would that be OK, or would you be a little miffed?<p>If this OW (other woman) is making you feel this good, she is meeting an emotional need you are not getting fufilled at home. Keep it up and before long you'll be telling us how bad your marriage is at home. I'm sorry I sound so arrogant with you; but YES you are having an affair. If you love your wife then read all the info on this site and figure out what you wifes (W) emotional needs (EN) are and meet them for her like you have been the OW's EN's. You may be suprised to find out that your W is feeling like something is missing too! And BTW, when you adopt the Marriage Builders (MB) principles, you will have to tell your wife about what a bad boy you have been.<p>STOP!!!!! Think about what you have been doing and where this will lead. Read some of the posts here from the wonderful people that are willing to share their pain and learn from each other. Do you really want to go through this? You can fix a lot of wrongs early on; but let this go too long and you will find yourself asking "What the He** is going on?!"

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by tempted:
<strong>I agree that you are right about keeping it private indicates something is wrong. But my wife knows I know this woman and I have met her. That is splitting hairs, I know.
As for getting physical -- we meet only during the day and for lunch. How would we ever go to bed? And she has many opportunities for that while out of town.
Maybe I am naive, but it seems like there are friends in a person's lives who fill a spot that others, including the spouse, can not.</strong><p><hr></blockquote><p>Good enough. Then invite her over to your house and seat her on your couch with your wife and kids watching. While they are watching, stroke her leg, her hair, kiss her and tell her you love her. If you are just "friends" then you can ALL be "friends." There should be nothing to hide.<p>[ June 25, 2002: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by tempted:
<strong>This is really an affair? I know my friend would disagee. She in fact told me that we both know nothing is going on. That is true</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Sorry, but this is an affair. An emotional affair. And of course something is going on.

TEMPTED:
You are having an EMOTIONAL AFFAIR that has started to get physical.
Flashback and think about when you first met you wife, think about those feelings you had for her and the butterflys in your stomach. Think about why you loved her so much that you chose her as your wife "to death do us part". If you cannot remember those feelings, and are saying that what you feel now is nothing like you have felt before, then not only is your coworkers marriage rocky, but yours is too, whether or not you want to admit that. A very happy marriage that meets all needs does now have one of the spouses going around and telling someone else he loves them and kissing them. Please read Steve Harley's Basics on this site, especially with the Top ten Needs to be met in your marriage. It seems to me, that maybe you and your wife need to fill out this questionaire and start moving forward together.
You are on a path to self-destruction, and so is your marriage.
I can relate to your situation, just put me in your wife's shoes. I thought that my WH and I had a good marriage, and then he all of sudden left me, for who, a woman he worked with. They were coworkers, spent alot of time on the road together. He had frustations of our marriage, shared them with her, he was comfortable with her. Most affairs start out as Emotional Affairs. Did you hop into bed the first time you saw your wife, or were you emotionally connected first. We are not talking about prostitution here, we are talking affairs, emotional and/or physical, it does not matter. However the emotional affair will hurt your wife the most.
Now back to me real quick, my WH and I have been separated since Feb'01, he's living with the OW. But, he tells me all them time that if he could go back in time, he would change everything, he feels like he has fallen into a pit that he can't get out of.
Have you sat back and reflected on how you got here to Marriage Builders? Obviously, you know deep down what you are doing is wrong or you would not be waiting for someone to approve of your actions and tell you it's okay. It is not okay, if you love your wife, you need to cut off all contact with the OW and fix your marriage, even if you don't think it needs it. Get Harley's book, "Fall In Love, Stay In Love". Have your wife read it too. It is not too late for you.
I do not know if you are a Christian man or not but God leads us and guides us when we are not following him, it is up to our free will if we want to listen to his voice. I believe that God is speaking to you now, led you to this website to find the help you need.<p>Now, as Dr. Laura says at the closing of her Radio Talk Show: "Go do the right thing".<p>You know what that is, or you would not be here.
Please, I hope you take this advice to heart, I do not want to be critical of you, but you are on the path to self-destruction of yourself, your marriage, and your children if you continue any type of relationship with this women. Trust me.

I don't know what I can really add... you're clearly in a position where you CAN help yourself before it's too late... are you going to mess up this big chance you have to "get out of jail free"?<p>Let me tell you a story... it's about a woman I know...<p>She and her husband got married young. They were in love, they shared hopes, dreams, and were best of friends.<p>Over time, they settled into the "routine" of married life. There were bills, there were chores, there were some tough days on the job. The "spark" - that "in love for the sake of in love" didn't have quite the "edge" it once did. But they loved each other. It was an enduring love that crossed the hard times.<p>They also neglected meeting each others most important needs, not so openly, but silently - a silent killer. They thought they were doing fine. They were pretty happy on the outside - what the world saw.<p>In the last couple of years, things did get rockier. Not drag-em-out fights or anything like that. But the wife did start drawing away - again, silently. Then the couple moved far away from home, started new lives. That, combined with the lack of attention they were showing to their marriage, resulted in the wife feeling a need to "share" her misgivings with a co-worker.<p>I'm sure she thought it was an innocent thing at the time - just talking, after all. He seemed so interested in listening, so eager to please. In fact, this guy sensed "an opening" - and he dove for it. He started pursuing her - subtly at first, I'm sure - just wanting to be friends. But deep down he wanted more. He wanted "some" physical contact. Maybe holding hands secretly in a dark theatre... Sadly, these were the things that the woman and her husband used to do too.<p>The woman didn't pay too much attention to what was going on. She noticed her mood was a bit better - she wasn't so worried about her marriage, anyways. She continued to treat her husband well - continued to meet many of his most important needs. That left her husband in a difficult state: he thought things were going well - his most important needs were being met, after all. But she silently continued to fall away, deeper and deeper into this pit.<p>Things evolved for 4-5 months like this. The woman found herself longing more and more for this co-worker, and his feelings continued to grow. See, feelings rarely stay static forever - they're going to increase or decrease. Eventually, these two lovers confessed their new-found love to each other, and then things really started to change.<p>The wife grew increasingly distant with her husband - enough now for him to notice something - but he wasn't sure exactly what yet. They went on a trip together, had some wonderful sex, visited friends, and the husband continued to think - "well, things are okay, aren't they?"<p>Shortly after they returned, they went on a day trip to an aquarium a couple of hours away. The husband wanted to hold his wife's hand as they walked, talked about going away to a nice B&B on the coast, and generally doted on his wife. She was strangely cold. The next day, the same coldness continued, and the wife even seemed almost ill. Finally... the husband put his arms around the person he valued more than anything else in the world to comfort her... and she told him "I love you, but I don't think I'm in love with you."<p>This is a woman who 2 weeks before had sent the husband an e-mail calling him "Babe" and signing it "Love". Now things changed completely. Now everything had changed. Now they had "married too young", "had an immature love", "she had fallen into marriage" - you get the idea.<p>The husband was devastated. He asked her it there was someone else. At first she denied. But they were both incredibly distraught for 3 days straight - both barely ate or slept. Strange things were said by the wife. Finally, the husband curled up in a corner on the third day, pouring his heart out in a letter to his wife, she comes up to him, and tries to explain things... that all of the husband's thoughtlessness over the years were like seeds that had grown, and that now, yes there was someone else. She said no, they hadn't had a physical relationship, but she was thinking about it.<p>The husband bought a book - the first he could find, really. It explained a bit about affairs (no, it wasn't SAA - that didn't come until later), and their destructiveness. He gave it to his wife, and she seemed to take it in stride. She left on day 4 to tell the other guy that it was over, came home, and gave her husband a big bear-hug. He thought it was going to be okay.<p>It was not... That was nearly 10 months ago, and the woman has gone through literally hell - and is not nearly back yet.<p>As you might have guessed, I'm the husband...<p>So I don't know what this woman has told you about her marriage, but you have unwittingly become this "other guy" in my story.<p>At about the 6 month mark, I took a little drive to confront this "other guy" - face-to-face, as was recommended to me by my counselors. I stood in front of him, and let him see me - who I am.<p>We talked a bit. It was rahter interesting. In several cases, his words were striking: "She never told me that!" Indeed. "She never told me that!" Think about it. All affairs are built on dishonesty and thoughtlessness for others.<p>The ones that last involve people who don't really care about other's feelings... that's all I can conclude. It's selfishness at its peak.<p>I'm not telling you what to do... because we're all creatures of free will. But I warn you now... this story could have turned out much differently if either the woman or her "guy friend" had taken a different path. Sure, it feels good today... but just you wait for what tomorrow brings...

Tempted,<p>I have not read all the posts between page one and wherever this response is ending up, but I had to reply and fast. The behaviour you describe is not just friendship, it's more than that, and WILL lead to more than that. Take it from a woman who was in the same position and ended up in bed with that person.<p>You're headed for trouble. I know it feels damn good to be with that person, and they're fun to talk to, etc. BUT, you have to decide, do you love your wife and want to be with her for the rest of your life? Or, do you want to go out and date? If you want to go out and date, the social norm (and the right thing to do!) is to get a divorce first.<p>No one here is going to tell you what you're doing is okay. Also, watch out. If you've done this once with this one woman, you'll be even more likely to get this close to some other woman down the road. Take it from a woman who's been there!!!<p>Perhaps examine your marriage and what you feel like you're not getting from your wife that this other woman provides to you. Then try to address that with your wife, WITHOUT reference to how the other woman does a better job of meeting those needs. <p>Believe me, I KNOW how good it probably feels to be with that woman. I also KNOW that it's possible to tell yourself, "But I still love my wife and have no intentions of having sex with this woman, or of leaving my wife, so it's okay, right?" But, it's not okay. It means you're being dishonest with your wife, and are not putting first the woman you vowed to be faithful to for the rest of your life. How would you feel if you knew your wife had another man running his hands through her hair, holding her hand, kissing her, and talking to her about personal things? Ask yourself that question over and over again when you're tempted to be with that woman.<p>I feel like a total hypocrite giving this advice, but take it from a woman who's been there and has pretty much lost a marriage she didn't want to lose! It wasn't worth it! <p>Jen [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] <img src="graemlins/teary.gif" border="0" alt="[Teary]" />

One more comment:<p>The fact that you feel compelled to ask if what you're doing is okay means that IT IS NOT OKAY. <p>Although, as I read more of your posts, you sound like you're not really listening to us anyway. You're probably waiting for someone to write a post like, "Heck, you're not hurting anyone, it's not an affair, it's just an affectionate friendship, and nothing more will happen if you keep it to lunch dates. Enjoy!"<p>Well, that just sounds rediculous to me, as it should to you.<p>Jen [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]

tempted<p>Why did you come here and ask a question that you are unwilling to accept an answer to? Did you really think those here at MARRIAGE BUILDERS would give you permission to continue distroying your marriage? And believe us, that is exactly what you are doing. <p>You are so deep in the fog that you are defensive and argumentative. In every post, you are attempted to justify your actions. I recognize that justification. I have been there. It was supposed to be "just a friendship". It ended up turning physical. And no matter what you say now, you will eventually end up attempting to justify a physical relationship with this other woman if you continue. <p>Cut it off now while you are not so far behind in the game. Talk to your wife. Get the Emotional Needs questionaire off this site and fill it out with your wife. There is obviously something you need that you are getting from this woman. Your wife should be filling that need. Give her the opportunity.<p>Regretting

My wife lost herself in the eyes of another man. She told him she loved him; reassured me they were "just friends". Her telling me she had kissed him made me dry heave for almost 20 minutes and I got sick to my stomach the first time we kissed after D-Day. That friendship led to a relationship led to an affair. You're just like the ******* that my wife had the affair with.<p>If you saw your wife sitting in a car with another man's hand on her leg and saw her kiss him, how would you feel? Would you think, "Aww, how cute. They're friends."? No, you'd think she was having an affair with the [censored] and you'd want to kill him. <p>It's human tendency to rationalize the things we want and trivialize the things that get in the way of what we want. That's what you're doing. Stop it.

Tempted:
The friendship that you have described is very wrong. My husband also had a "friend" at work. This "friendship" just about ruined our marriage. It ended about a year ago, but the pain and mistrust that remained is too much to get over. Think very carefully whether your marriage is something that you want to potentially lose over this friendship. My husband realized that his "friendship" was not worth it, but it was too late. Just think about what you are doing. If you want to save your marriage, you must end ALL contact.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by tempted:
<strong>I.
As for getting physical -- we meet only during the day and for lunch. How would we ever go to bed?
</strong><hr></blockquote><p>My SO took his "friend" to lunch on their work lunch break , just an hours time ,and gee...she ended up pregnant

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by tempted:
<strong>I found this website while looking for information about mid-life crises in men. I wonder if I am having one, or if I am overreacting to a situation involving a woman I work with. I need advice and some guidance if I am seeing what is there or just imagining things.
</strong><hr></blockquote><p>To answer your question, you MAY be having a mid-life crisis but you ARE most definitely having an affair.<p>What is your age? How long have you been married? How old are your children? And most importantly, are you ready for a divorce because that is where you are headed if and when your wife finds out that you define friendship as kissing, hugging, and saying I love you to your frieds.<p>[ June 26, 2002: Message edited by: TinyDancer ]</p>