Tempted -<p>Please, please end this relationship. Listen to the advice you are getting here. My situation started so similarly to yours, except the OW was my best friend. My H said last December that our marriage was doing just fine... but he left me two weeks ago. Suddenly we never should have gotten married, he was really done with our relationship last summer but didn't know how to deal with it, loves me but we aren't good for each other... all this revision of history happened after I found out he was in love with the OW... after I found out he has been lying to me about his relationship with her... <p>Please, don't hurt your wife and yourself this way. <p>Oh, and Summer - you can have friends of the opposite sex... just not ones you are in love with. Puhleeze. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]

Thanks for the good post CrMiranda. You are right, the moral issues don't carry much weight with me right now. I am being led by my heart, and not my head.
The whole soulmate thing is so strange because I have never felt this way toward any other woman. She does something for me that no one else does. If it was clear what she does -- boost my ego, or make me feel loved -- I could try and fill those holes in myself. But the problem is that I can't tell you why I feel the way I do. I just do. It is not like I am some middle-aged guy and some hot young girl in her 20s is coming onto me. Nothing at all like that.
I do find myself feeling a bit low when I can't talk with her, and I find myself wondering what she is thinking, how she is doing. When we are togehter -- again in the public -- I am captivated by her spirit and soul.
I guess I have a couple questions:
1. Does it have to lead to disaster? If I really love her and she likes me strictly as a friend, that seems to set boundaries.
2. The reality of a physical affair is farfetched. Not only is it something I don't desire, there simply is no way -- given time constraints, etc -- that it would ever take place. So that seems to set a protective boundary.
3. Is there anyone on here who had feelings of love for someone other than spouse and then pulled back and remained friends?

Tempted,
I hope you take the time to think about all the helpful advice you've been given.<p>How would you feel if your father had a 'friend' like you do, all the while your mother is at home thinking everything is okay?
How would you feel if you had a daughter and her H had a 'friend' he met with at lunch that he didn't desire sexually, but loved, touched, and caressed on occasion? <p>What would you do if you had cancer, and your doctor knew about it, and knew it could be treated, but didn't tell you because he thought 'it's just a small lump, how could it hurt him, it probably won't get any worse, and it's not like it's taking the place of any vital organs, it just sitting there in between them'?<p>Your wife isn't free to make a choice about whether she will tolerate your behavior, because you've made that decision for her by withholding that information, and continuing on in you emotional affair.

Hon -- <p>1. She's in a more vulnerable position than you are. She's in a troubled marriage. What makes you think she's going to be able to limit your friendship, and what makes you think she won't turn to you for more?<p>And if you "really love" her -- doesn't that set off some warning bells in your own head? A married man should not have loving feelings for anyone other than his wife, and you are failing to protect your marriage and yourself from the possibility of an affair.<p>2. If you've had time to expand this friendship to kissing and stroking in the car -- then there are NO boundries big enough! It only takes a few minutes for things to go WAY beyond what you've planned.<p>3. You should have some sense by now that if you have these "love" feelings its inappropriate. <p>I've been in your shoes Tempted -- and you're heading down a path that will cause you tremendous heartache. Almost all WS will talk to you about depression, suicide, and regrets. If you truly are happy with your wife and your marriage -- then direct all of your energy towards making it more so! I think your wife would be devasted to know just how far this relationship has already gone! Do not give this OW any more of the positive energy you could be giving instead to your wife and kids.

$hit, tempted. We ALL know exactly what you are talking about.<p>Soul mates? No such damned thing.<p>Summer16. Sheez! Nice to have "met" you, though you'll never read this.

tempted:<p>"1. Does it have to lead to disaster?"<p>Think about how your W might react knowing what you've told us to this point. Answer your own question.<p>"If I really love her and she likes me strictly as a friend, that seems to set boundaries."<p>You've already crossed the reasonable boundary and are currently losing control. All you need now is for her to have an argument with her H, or a bad hair day, or some such.<p>"2. The reality of a physical affair is farfetched. Not only is it something I don't desire, there simply is no way -- given time constraints, etc -- that it would ever take place."<p>My W and I, on a couple of occaisions, have made love with several other people in the room at the time and without their knowledge. The second time, everyone else was asleep. The first time, everyone else was awake.

"So that seems to set a protective boundary."<p>So that isn't a protective boundary.<p>"3. Is there anyone on here who had feelings of love for someone other than spouse and then pulled back and remained friends?"<p>Yeah, I have. A couple of times that I can think of now that happened during our M. I never told the other person about my feelings. I had to back away from them as a friend for a time, until those feelings went away. I still work with one of these gals. Not attracted to her anymore. But if I ever had told them how I felt about them, I would have had to avoid contacting them from then on. Either that, or risk destroying my M or hers. I just don't do that, I guess. My W had "boundaries" similar to yours, and so her EA wound up becoming a PA, though that was very infrequent and much less sinister than the EA.

Tempted,<p>You say you want to be married AND keep this relationship with the OW. Well, trying to juggle both relationships will make you an emotional wreck. Let's look at this from a purely selfish point of view. How is your situation affecting YOU right now?<p>Take a close look at yourself emotionally. It is obvious that you are not a happy man. You are furstrated when you do not see OW. You are stressing about how to keep her in your life. The fact that you are having this discussion with us shows you are concerned. You are clearly distracted and preoccupied by OW. This is not a recipe for "happily everafter."<p>Let me respectfully add that whatever emotional turmoil you are experiencing will only get WORSE one way or the other what ever you chose to do. You have set events in motion that assure that. <p>So let's say you chose to continue this relationship. What is the BEST that can happen? Until you are both divorced, the best you can expect is to pine away for a woman whose primary relationship is in her marriage. You will always be second, and she will go home each night to her husband. You will be tossed snippets of time with this woman you crave so desperately. Bits, pieces, and crumbs from her Tempted. This is the BEST you can expect.<p>Meanwhile, it will become evident to your wife that something is very wrong. It's only a matter of time. Once she finds out about your infidelity, you may very well lose your family - all for a married woman who is not available to you. Is this OW worth the risk of destroying your family? You are on the verge of causing that to happen.<p>Unfortunately, what you have done to yourself is to allow feelings to become actions. The feelings themselves are normal, and they can "just happen." Actions, on the other hand, are a choice. Dr. Harley says that affairs occur when people fail to protect their own weaknesses. This is what you have allowed to happen. You failed to protect your weakness for this woman, and the consequences will be painful.<p>You continue as you are, and you will hurt your wife and the rest of your family, OW's husband and her children, and eventually OW. You stop contact, and you will have to suffer through a painful withdrawal. People are going to hurt big time either way you go. That is the consequence of the choices you have made.<p>One thing is certain. You will not be a content man at peace with himself if you continue what you are doing. You are not content now, and you HAVE what you say you want. It won't get better.<p>Just because you want something doesn't mean you have a right to have it. Do the right thing. Be an honorable, unselfish man. Let her go. Accept the fact that YOU will be the one to suffer for your choices, not your family. <p>Estes<p>Please take some time to read mmseekingadvice's threads. His story is almost a carbon copy of yours. Your feelings are strong, even understandable, Tempted, but they are not unique. People feel like you do all the time. It's an old, old story. What CAN make you unique is the honorable way you chose to deal with it.

Listen to CMiranda, Tempted. I am in the exact same place that you are, with the exception that I've taken the PA a little farther with the OM. I am going through hell trying to end this attraction. Believe me when I say you will become obsessed with this OW - if you aren't already. He is in my thoughts constantly and, although my H doesn't know of the A, he has already interfered in my M. My H told me he feels as though I've become distant, wonders if I'm having an A, feels insecure and wonders why. I feel awful, having put my H in that position, but I also can't give up the fantasy that I created with the OM. He too touches me in ways that no man ever has before - and whether I want to or not, I find myself comparing him to my H. My H is so much better for me in every way, but why do I still want the OM so badly? Please believe me when I tell you to end it now - I wish that I'd had the strength to do that back in March, the first time we tried to stop this A. Things would be so much easier now. I know that my advice isn't much help, but hopefully hearing a story similar to yours will help you realize how hard it becomes and that this is all an illusion that I am still waiting to have shatter. My H finding out might do that...but I'm trying desperately to do it on my own. Again I'll tell you though, this is the hardest thing I've ever done - an abyss that I wish I had never allowed myself to fall into...

This is almost comical. Do you kick ant piles when you walk by?

Engineer_Bob - Your sarcasm is uncalled for...too bad you don't have any advice to give.

Tempted:<p>Like CMiranda said only you can save you! Most of us here have all been where you or your wife are right now!<p>Yes, you can continue to be friends and not let it esculate; but it will destroy your OK marriage. Over time you will ask yourself, "I wonder why my W can't be like her? I wonder why I don't feel that way with my W? It must me destiny, this must be a sign from above that we (me and OW) are supposed to be together." And the circle continues. What you are feeling with this OW so easily can be achieved in your M; but you have to be willing to work at it. EVERYTHING you have described thus far is explained by Dr. Harley. Most of us that wandered into A's didn't go looking for it, it just happened. Then we started the long climb out of the pit. You for whatever reason looked back on your way into the pit and said "Is this really a bad thing?" And you happened to say it here on MB. Why did you look back? If it is so OK, why did you have to ask? The is a part of your that knows it is BAD, REALLY REALLY BAD, and it made you stop and ask.<p>Lastly; I've read most of the posts on this thread. Each time you mention the physical part not being possible you also include that neither of you have the time. Right now that is the excuse for not going further. What if you do both find the time? The excuses will only go for so long until you rationalize, "I can't think of a reason why we shouldn't." So you can either stop this now or later. Now will hurt ALOT! Later will hurt ALOT MORE!

( coming out of longtime lurkmode to make an observation.... )<p>CAN THIS PERSON ALSO BE SUMMER16??????<p>I apologize if I am wrong, but the style in which these two write -- using those 2 dashes -- between words -- has got to more than a coincidence.<p>JMO <p>heading back to quiet seclusion..
[img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]
taf<p>[ June 26, 2002: Message edited by: TAF ]</p>

Hi,<p>I noticed that an earlier post asked if you had been here before under another name. I also wondered that, because a few months ago a man with a story EXACTLY like this posted. He also vowed that this was "love", not physical, and that it would NEVER become physical. He thought we were all just crazy to suggest that this was just an affair. Care to guess what happened there?<p>My husband also had a wonderful "friend". Guess what happened with that. Two families and five children devastated because the "friendship" got "out of control".<p>You are having an affair. An affair doesn't just mean sex, and sex isn't even required. I've noticed that that several people have asked you to tell your wife if you think all this is so innocent, and you have just ignored those comments.<p>So I'll try a different approach. I can PROMISE you that your wife has some "holes" in her life that she would like to have filled too. How about if SHE meets a "soulmate" and allows him to kiss her, stroke her, touch her, tell her he loves her, make out with her in a car, etc. Will that be okay with you?<p>You are having an affair. What you are doing is so very wrong that it is hard to believe you even have to ask. Yes, you are in a fog, and yes, you are trying to justify infidelity. You will NEVER be able to do that, and you are not going to find anybody on this board to encourage you to continue to cheat and betray your wife and children.<p>If you continue on this course of action that you have CHOSEN, you will probably lose your wife, children, job, etc. Will it be worth it?<p>And here is a little news flash for you. When a woman starts telling a man about her unhappy marriage, that means she is looking for someone to take her husband's place. She is on the make, just like the man who uses that classic line "My wife doesn't understand me". You probably aren't even the first one she has used this play on, and you surely won't be the last.<p>I've been here a LONG time, and I know that NOTHING anyone says here will stop you from what you are doing. You are like the kid who doesn't believe the stove is hot until they touch it for themself.<p>Do the right thing for your wife, and tell her the whole truth right now. Then tell her about this forum. She is going to need it.

So now I have read the whole 7 pages...and I have to wonder just how much of this is true and how much is bait. Tempted just says the same thing over and over and is ignoring most of the posts. <p>Why do we bother? Because we don't want to see others end up where we have all been. But really what is the point? Tempted is going to do whatever he wants and there is nothing we can do about it. <p>If this is all fact, I hope his wife finds this site. As Peppermint said, she is going to need it!

I agree with Regretting that "tempted" is a wayward spouse who won't admit it, looking for another wayward spouse to condone his behavior.<p>The fact that he questions his actions is his own answer within itself. <p>When something is RIGHT, we don't wonder about it. We just know it.<p>He knows it's wrong, but thinks because it's not 100% full-blown physical affair, it's not completely wrong. Well, wrong is wrong. Right?<p>A little leaven leavens the WHOLE lump. So whatever... No sense in beating our heads against a brick wall... Let him go find out where his EA leads, then he will know for sure what path he is on... Obviously he doesn't want to hear from betrayed spouses. *sigh* [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]

I like MelodyLane's suggestion. Why not have your wife join you guys for your public lunch meetings and car trips and harmless discussions/caressing sessions from now on??? Just a wild idea? Maybe your wife would ENJOY watching!!! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>My H and I have set a boundary for our marriage that we follow:

• Avoid the appearance of evil.

<p>But of course, that perspective doesn't apply to you because you are following your heart in this case, not moral/biblical laws. So nevermind, but just thought I'd share what has been helpful to us in the way of protecting our marriage from our own weaknesses...<p>Dr.Harley has some rules for Escaping the Jaws of Infidelity, please go read this Q&A article!!!<p>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5024b_qa.html<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Escaping the Jaws of Infidelity
<strong>Whenever I counsel someone who seems incurably attracted to the opposite sex, I give them the following rules to avoid temptation:

1. Spend all your recreational time either alone or with your spouse,
2. no meals alone with someone of the opposite sex,
3. no rides in cars alone with those of the opposite sex,
4. never tell someone of the opposite sex thay you find them attractive or that you like them and
5. if someone of the opposite sex ever tells you that they find you attractive, start talking about how much you love your spouse.

</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Please accept responsibility for what you are doing instead of looking for some MLC excuse! You are not having a mid-life crisis! She is not your soulmate!!! God is your "soul mate." You are suffering from a serious case of DENIAL! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ June 27, 2002: Message edited by: BINthereDUNthat ]</p>

And just one more thing, physical affairs can be thought of as "meaningless" sort of the way you describe your emotional affair... Only sometimes people get pregnant. Sometimes "other children" are born. Sometimes the mother decides to raise the OC without the OC knowing who their "bio father" is...<p>It happened to me... I was a single OW who got pregnant by a MM--NOT your situation, but suppose you guys DID take it to the physical level and suppose just maybe--that your "soulmate" got pregnant. Then what? It's not like you can make the OC's disappear... But oh, I know, that would NEVER happen to you... [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] That's right! I remember now...<p>Don't take your wife for a fool. She likely knows much more than you give her credit for...<p>If you are out in public, it's a small world. Don't think you can be out in public kissing and caressing and not ever be seen by a mutual friend...<p>[ June 27, 2002: Message edited by: BINthereDUNthat ]</p>

Dear Tempted,
Please read this letter for me and tell me whether you feel I should send this to my husband -<p>Darling X,
I'm writing this to you because I don't know how to say what I need to say in person, and I want to make sure that I explain everything clearly, so we don't have any misunderstandings. I'm hoping when you read this letter that you won't take anything I have said the wrong way.<p>You know that for a long time, we have both felt there is something missing in our lives. We've know each other now for 17 years and been faithfully married for 14. We have made a home together and have two wonderful boys, and your career is finally going well and you are getting the respect and acknowledgement you so richly deserve. I have worked hard to support and encourage you on your road to success and I am so proud of your achievements. We have both said to each other that we still love each other, and we love our kids more than anything and don't want to do anything that would hurt them, but after knowing each other this long, we also know that we are not compatible in every respect, and we don't know if it is possible for one person to fill all of another's needs. I have tried to talk to you about this, but I find it hard to talk and the times I have tried, we have ended up arguing. I don't want to argue and hurt our relationship any more, so I have accepted the love that we do have together, but I am also sometimes very lonely.<p>Since I have been going out to play squash with X (my girlfriend) at Squash Club night, I met a man that I have become good friends with. We have been having coffee after we are finished playing squash every week for the last 6 months. We hit it off together right away and since we know neither of us is interested in having an affair, we exchanged mobile numbers, and I gave him my e-mail address. He is married and has a teenage daughter - he isn't really happily married, since his wife had an affair and left, then they got back together again, but he doesn't want to leave her, and I don't want to damage our life together either. I married for life when I married you and I am committed to staying married.<p>But I am finding that Michael, that's his name, brings a lot of happiness into my life - he makes me laugh, and makes me feel good about myself. He lets me know that he thinks I am beautiful, intelligent and he likes my energy. In the beginning, we didn't talk every day on the phone, but now we do, just a few minutes, or a nice little message - these few moments are all I need to help me get through the day. I feel that because of him, I am a happier, better wife. He and I are both Geminis, and I feel he is my other half, emotionally - my lost twin - we are so much alike - we laugh at the same things, like the same books, like the same kind of music, like the same kind of food. If I had to give up my friendship with him, I would be very sad.<p>I know that this is never going to be something physical, even though we have touched - we hug and kiss each other goodbye every time we see each other. But that is all it is - just friends.<p>Since I have always been honest with you, and you have always been my best friend, I felt that I should let you know that I have found someone who makes my life whole. I don't think I am doing anything that should hurt you, so please don't be hurt. I feel that I am entitled to have friends and the feelings I have for Michael are different from what I feel for you, and my relationship with Michael does not threaten you in any way, but my feelings for him have become a part of my life that I don't feel I can give up, and I don't feel I should have to. I think if you really love me, you will accept that this is what makes me happy and be glad for me. <p>I hope you can accept what I have to say, but I will understand if you can't.<p>Always your loving wife,
X""<p>Tempted - this letter is a fiction - my H is having an emotional affair EXACTLY like the one you are describing. The emotions presented in this letter are exactly the emotions expressed to me by my H and by him and his "friend" to each other (I spied on their e-mails). I have been through HELL these last 6 months and don't know how much longer I can go on. If I did not have children I would have left my H long ago. Right now I am struggling to save any feelings of love I have left for my H. I have written this letter to give him, to try to wake him up to what he is doing to me. I HAVE met a VERY NICE man called Michael, who DOES want to go out with me and would leap at the chance to be my special friend. I have not and am not ever going to allow that chance to develp into a "special friendship" even though I am dying inside for the love my H has withdrawn from me ever since he met his "friend". I love my H very much, but he has gone mad. Most of all, does he deserve my love? Well, he deserves to be loved, but he is behaving like a total and complete S**T and the only thing he thinks about is himself.<p>That's all I see in your posts - me, me, me, me, me - why can't I have what I want - what's wrong with me having what I want?<p>What about your wife? She has rights, thoughts, feelings and needs. When she dedicated herself to marriage, she dedicated herself to trying to meet your needs. Your deception is denying her the chance to meet your needs, so she doesn't have a chance.<p>You are like a man following a firefly into the swamp at night.<p>Odile

Tempted,<p>I'm not ready to give up on you yet. I know what is like to be in your very shoes. I'm not disregarding the posts from others who are asking you or pleaing for your wife's feelings. I just know that at this stage, they fall onto deaf ears and a heart that is stolen. So they won't work. I will tell you what I wish I had known 7 years ago.<p>
[Thanks for the good post CrMiranda. You are right, the moral issues don't carry much weight with me right now. I am being led by my heart, and not my head.<p>I know this to be true tempted. Our hearts are not wired to our brains. I'm not appealing to your brain or your heart right now. I am just asking you to try and understand that you will not be able to control his relationship as it progresses.<p>
"The whole soulmate thing is so strange because I have never felt this way toward any other woman. She does something for me that no one else does. If it was clear what she does -- boost my ego, or make me feel loved -- I could try and fill those holes in myself. But the problem is that I can't tell you why I feel the way I do. I just do. It is not like I am some middle-aged guy and some hot young girl in her 20s is coming onto me. Nothing at all like that."<p>I understand. My OM although very attractive, didn't turn my head the first time I met him. After I fell in love with him, he became the hottest, cutest guy on earth. We clicked and his personality and his being is what I needed in my life at the time. That is just it, it was about me and the holes I had in my life. It wasn't really about him at all. When we feel filled up and satisfied and happy, the same type of person can walk into our life and we don't notice. This is why I'm trying to show you that you are in need of repair Tempted. I'm not an expert at how to fix oneself, I'm in process of struggling with this now. I don't know why I fell in love with my OM. Why him? I do not know exactly. I can go on and on about what a great person he is and all of the reasons why we clicked. But ultimately, I do not know either. I don't know that it even matters anymore.<p>I'll try and answer your questions honestly and straitforward:<p>
1. Does it have to lead to disaster? If I really love her and she likes me strictly as a friend, that seems to set boundaries.<p>If you love her and you remain married, yes, it will lead to emotional disaster beyond your wildest dreams. Romantic love is powerful. You can't predict where it will lead you. My logic went to sleep and my heart ruled my life where OM was concerned. Yes, I'm a woman so you say. OM in my case is the most logical, methodical person I have ever met. If I told you where our feelings led us, you would not believe me. You would not believe that this man turned into mush. We nearly destroyed our families and ourselves trying to control our feelings and failing at it. Tempted, it will be 7 years this September and we still struggle with letting go.<p>
2. The reality of a physical affair is farfetched. Not only is it something I don't desire, there simply is no way -- given time constraints, etc -- that it would ever take place. So that seems to set a protective boundary.<p>Oh boy, tempted. I didnt think about him physically at first either. But as the feelings grew, so did my thoughts of him sexually. Its the natural progression in this type of relationship. Time??? He had 2 children, at the time an infant and a toddler. He is workaholic. We didn't have time either so we thought. Believe me, you will find it. Believe me tempted. You will make the time. Working with the OP makes it alot easier to find it.<p>3. Is there anyone on here who had feelings of love for someone other than spouse and then pulled back and remained friends? <p>That is what we are trying to accomplish now after 7 years. Friends.??? It seems absurd at times to think we can pull it off. Someone here said that it can't work when you are in love with your friend, and I have to agree. I have not been successful at it. I wish I could tell you otherwise. I don't know how far your friendship has really gotten off course Tempted, but it sounds as if you and she will always have a connection that will lead to more if you're in eachothers lives. The thing that stands out is that she is in a troubled marriage and you have feeling of love for her.<p>That is exactly my scenario 7 years ago. OM wasn't in an unhappy marriage, well not like mine. I fell head over heels for him, me being the needier one. He must have needed the ego boost, or admiration or was not feeling in love with his W, whatever it was, but he and I got very, very involved and still are trying to get our lives on track. Who would have predicted the pain we have endured? Neither of us. We are not dumb people. We were naive.<p>[ June 27, 2002: Message edited by: CMiranda ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by engineer_bob:
<strong>This is almost comical. Do you kick ant piles when you walk by?</strong><hr></blockquote><p>
I noticed your trend and you never offer much of anything to help other than sarcasim and volitility, so why bother!? I'm tempted to take a shot at your profession & it's ties to your personality, but I will refrain. I know alot of eng's and I could have fun here but I will not!
Just not seeing why you bother to post.