Dear Neverthought:
I can understand your spot completely.

Tempted,

I forwarded my email address to the moderator TEMPEST. If you contact her (I'm presuming she's a she..) you will be given my email address.

CM

Thanks. How do I contact her?

Neverthought,
You are right, nothing and no one is worth this pain. How to work through it, I don't know. I'm taking one day at a time right now. I hope one day I wake up and my head is screwed on strait just by going through the motions of telling myself that I don't need him anymore. I deserve better, so does my H and so do you. Boy are we in the same shoes right now. I don't have much time right now, but I will later on tonight. I will go and read your updated post and I will try as best that I can to help you. I'm no expert, I only have my experiences and lessons learned from my emotional scars and even several recent wounds to offer you. Oh, I do have understanding and acceptance too. I know the pull that you feel from him as well as your internal pull to want to end the pain and be happy in your marriage, to be fullfilled by it.

I look forward to us helping eachother. I will be back tonight.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by tempted:
<strong>Thanks. How do I contact her?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sending her an email should do the trick. Tell her your login ID and that you want my email address. I sent her a message asking her to give it to you should you inquire.

tempest@mhcable.com

Tempted:

This isn't a flame. I have no experience with an A. But as a neutral observer, even I can tell you have "crossed the line".

It's nothing to do with how often you see her. It's nothing to do with it being 5 minutes or 5 hours. It's about what you FEEL. It's about the two of you fulfilling EN's that should be filled by your respective S's.

Today it may "seem" harmless. And you may think it might not go beyond that. But the reality is that you are both putting each other in a situation where the "A" could very well develop further under the right circumstances. For example, what if she had a big blow up with her H, and came to you looking for a shoulder to cry on?

Look, I have a few women friends (not many, but a few). They are all married to or go out with my male friends. When we are together, we might talk about music. We DON'T hold hands. We might go out and have a beer as a group. We DON'T talk about intimate things. I pretty much treat my female friends like my male friends (ok, maybe a little more gently).

Now let's do a 180. Picture your W with a stranger. She holds his hand when they are together. She hugs and kisses him once in awhile. She tells him that she loves him. Does the thought of that not bother you? If it doesn't, you seriously need to have a very hard look at your M. 'Cause there is a problem, my friend. And I DO know about problems in an M.

Tempted, you are on the start of a very slippery slope. Each step seems pretty small and harmless. But after awhile, you are going to find yourself in hip deep in trouble.

So - stop trying to rationalize your R with this OW. Pick up a some books on the subject and read through them to get some insight. You don't need to take our word for it.

You have received a lot of good advice here. Try to think about what you are doing objectively.

Good luck!

{sigh}
CMiranda & Tempted-- It isn't generally advisable for opposite sex, married people, with troubled marriages to start emailing each other.

Tempted, so why does CM, who is still troubled, seem like someone who can wisely advise you when, for example, both my H (who obviously is also both WS & BS) & I have gotten through being both BS & WS and I have a great marriage?

Just a couple more things to think about.

CM and Tempted,
are you familiar with www.gloryb.com? that is a good site where you will find support and encouragement to continue your "friendships".

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by tempted:
<strong>Someone else asked if I have been reading the posts and doing the work. I have.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There is no indication here that you have done any such thing. You have consistently ignored pointed, direct questions that are important - even critical - to your understanding of the crap that you are standing hip-deep in.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>I simply can not figure out what it is about this woman that seems to be filling some kind of hole in my life.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">To do the right thing you don't need to know this information. You just need to know what the right thing is. You are running full-tilt toward the worst he&#0124;&#0124; you've ever experienced, pushing your innocent, unknowing wife and children in front of you, while the rest of the world watches and screams warnings in your ears.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>I don't want it to spin out of control and start a fire that consumes my life and hers. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It's too late. You've already done it. It's not quite the forest fire that nearly consumed Colorado yet, but it'll get there unless you turn around and run. Now.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>If no one finds out, if it remains as good friends, what is the harm?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Did you ask that question with a straight face?

Unbelievable.

Print this thread out and show it to your wife. Then come back and tell us what the harm is.

<small>[ June 28, 2002, 03:46 PM: Message edited by: o2bsane ]</small>

Man this thread has gotten long!

Tempted,

if you think we BS are being too harsh, sorry.
The problem is that you insist into trying to keep this friendship, you will hang to it with claws and teeth, so, fine.

You think it is ok, fine. You think it won't hurt, fine. You think it will never go physical, fine.

You cannot figure out what this woman does for you? She isn't the best of friends? She isn't so attractive that you cant s3x?
Your wife is fulfilling your EN's but STILL you want to have this woman around.

I don't know, it really sounds like you could use some counselling, and I am serious.

I just believe there is something that doesn't quiet make sense, therefore you may want to look for professional help.

As it has been said over and over before, you have been given a lifetime of wise advise already.

People suspected you were other person because your case is very common, one on the millions in a big series of "unique connections" type of things. One on the thousands of "clicks" that these people have heard about.

I appreciate you continue to post. I know you feel attacked, but as they have said before, it is a warning, not an attack, and if they are oh well, not everybody can agree.

These people have invested their time into trying to let you know that what you are doing is not right, and it will end up bad.

You have decided you are not in the "uniqueness" pile of doom, and that you can, not only keep your cool, but also your friend.

Fine, you are an adult, sentinent and you have your right to do whatever goddam you please, nobody can take that away from you, even when you may try to put a bullet between your own eyes.

Only one request, if your friendship is going to be as it is, alright and nice... could you please tell your wife so she can agree with your impecable logic?

If I was going to be set up in an experiment with already proven dangerous drugs I'd like to know, at least then it wouldn't come as a shock that one day I died after drinking safely poisoned water.

IF you think the BS are being harsh wait until you see how your wife will react. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

The truth always comes out.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Lor (Lor):
<strong>{sigh}
CMiranda & Tempted-- It isn't generally advisable for opposite sex, married people, with troubled marriages to start emailing each other.

Tempted, so why does CM, who is still troubled, seem like someone who can wisely advise you when, for example, both my H (who obviously is also both WS & BS) & I have gotten through being both BS & WS and I have a great marriage?

Just a couple more things to think about.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thank you Lor. I wanted to say that, and tried, but it came out way too ugly and disrespectful. I'm glad I held my tongue (fingers <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ) until you came along and said it.

First of all, I have done a lot of work on this before I got to this board. I read the harley book and others. I understand the concepts about emotional needs, etc.
I sat down with a pad of paper and tried to figure out what it is the woman stirs in me and then how I can fix that. To the person who says that is not important, that is crazy. If something in the car is rattling, take it to a mechanic and figure out the problem. If I just run now, I could be open to something like this down the road.
I am trying to be logical, and at the same time not be led totally by my heart.
If this woman was all over me, calling me and telling me that she loved me, doing the things, I admit that I tell her, I would thing a raging fire was underwa.
But she isn't. It is one sided. That makes it seem like it is a crush that will die out and then we could remain friends.
I dont see her every day. Dont talk with her every day.
That alone has to serve as some sort of boundary athjat

Tempted,
I think what every one here is trying to get you to understand is, They dont want you to go through all the pain and suffering all here have endured. BS and WS The pain is great for all.

If you want to save your marriage before this gets worse, I think what every one is suggesting is you start working on your wifes needs and tell her what yours are so maybe she can meet them..

Nothing is a secret for ever, so dont think that you can keep it a secret for ever, it will grow and sooner or later people will find out. People probably are already noticing your infatuation... you just dont realise it.
AND even if you dont think you are giving your wife signals... she is seeing them.. spouses know. They may not say any thing, but for the most part all of them saw signs or clues to what was happening.
Your wife will as well... do you want to deal with that when it happens.

Most of the lives here became more complicated because of these friends ships.. dont misunderstan, I made the om my BEST friend as he did me.. But look at all the mess it has caused since in our lives in our hearts.. I just hate to see someone else hurt.

Maybe you should consider telling your wife you are having these feelings and talk about it with her..

tempted,

I asked this before, but was ignored, so I will ask again.

Would you approve of your wife having this kind of relationship with another man? And if this is all as innocent as you claim, why won't you tell your wife about your "soulmate"?

I am giving my wife my attention, kisses and all that. I dont think I am taking anything away from the situation at home. Her marriage was rocky before I came on the scene. She does not want to leave her husband, so I dont see how my friendship with her will destroy her marriage
I am not asking these questions to argue, but to gain insight from peole who have been in my spot. I admit that I would not tell my wife about what I have told this woman, so that tells me I feel a bit guitly.
But I still don't feel like I am having what I consider an affair. I dont think this womnan would think that either.
For example, she goes to conferences and is hit on all the time by men and never takes them up on it. So if she wanted to cheat, she would have many opportunites to do so
-----------------------------------------
OK so she goes to confrences all the time and does nothing about men hitting on her... but you and she are friends, what happens if she takes you up on that offer some time, you have already made advances and she let you...

How will it destroy her marriage.... This I can help with.. If you start making a best friend out of someone else other than your spouse, you do great damage to your marriage, because you stop caring about the spouse and start fullfilling your friends needs .. you have already done that... kisses are nice, but your mind and your heart are on OW.. so your spouse is suffering.. your job isnt to fix her marriage, why arent you concerned about your marriage...That is what bothers me.
I would ask your wife what she terms an affair.. at the very least it is an EA and will most likely lead to more, and there is always a time or place if someone wants to be intimate. so I dont think that will keep you from your self either.
I dont think you are arguing.. I believe you are feeling guilty and trying to find any reason on earth to justify that feeling... PLAIN and simple, if your wife would be hurt by this.. you are wrong.

Those of us who have done this KNOW how painful it can be..
I am FWS also BS many times and I can tell you what my husband deemed a friendship hurt more than you can know.
and you know what, before my affair in 18 years this was the first time I had ever ever done anything like this. My husband was a regular cheater.. I never dreamed I would or could have an affair.. I thought it was beneath me, but along came this man , who learned what my every need was and met every one of them.... I became so connected with him, I no longer worked on saving my marriage, never dealt with his infedelities just started focusing on me.

END result.. I have a child with om.. Husband and I are working on marriage But alot of damage was done by our great friendship..
No one says you will stop caring for this person.. This man is a father to my daughter now, as is my husband..
But for two people who had bad marriages,if making our marriage better was the goal I dont think either of us did that.. I am sure he deals with as much turmoil in his marriage at times as I do mine..
WE crossed the line and didnt look back...

It happens no matter how careful you are. just my point of view.

I think we changed all our lives forever.. I am not just speaking about my daughter.. I am talking about the close friendship that we formed that would not hurt us. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> It hurt in more ways than I can count.
some of those things hurt to this day... KNOW one can make you do any thing, so you will make your own decisions about what to do, but do think about it first...

<small>[ June 28, 2002, 08:57 PM: Message edited by: mom of five ]</small>

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Lor (Lor):
[QB]{sigh}
CMiranda & Tempted-- It isn't generally advisable for opposite sex, married people, with troubled marriages to start emailing each other.

Tempted, so why does CM, who is still troubled, seem like someone who can wisely advise you when, for example, both my H (who obviously is also both WS & BS) & I have gotten through being both BS & WS and I have a great marriage?

LL,
I did not know that about emailing opposite sex members. I have already been down that road, I may have been a fool once, but I'm not stupid enough to be twice. At least I have no plan on ever revisiting the bowels of an affair, of any kind.

I can't answer for tempted, but I do think he needs to talk to someone, male or female I don't think much matters, but who has been there and done that. I'm not looking to condone what is happening in his life right now. I do understand and I hope that my understanding will help him see his way out of this before it gets worse than it is.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by I LuvNprotect ME:
<strong>CM and Tempted,
are you familiar with www.gloryb.com? that is a good site where you will find support and encouragement to continue your "friendships".</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I LuvNProtect,

Where did I say that tempted's friendship should continue? Was I offering him support to carry on his relationship? No, I am not. Nor am I here looking for support to continue mine. I haven't any idea why you would think such a thing. Just because I haven't taken on the hard @ss approach with him does not mean that I'm supporting his EA. I am supporting him. He deserves that support in my opinion.

CM

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I am sure cm did not mean any thing disrespectful .. I dont think disrespecting cm or tempted will help any one.

<small>[ June 28, 2002, 09:11 PM: Message edited by: mom of five ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by tempted:
<strong>I sat down with a pad of paper and tried to figure out what it is the woman stirs in me and then how I can fix that. To the person who says that is not important, that is crazy.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ok, call me crazy, but you're the one here that can't figure out that you've got a stick of dynamite in each ear EVEN WHEN YOU'VE BEEN TOLD REPEATEDLY NOT TO PUSH THE BUTTON.

You're on your own now. I've got a broken family to tend to - because somebody like you got his filthy hands on my xw and led her down the primrose path to her destruction.

Good luck, pal. You need it more than you know.