I have been holding off updating everyone because it just did not feel right. Now that the smoke has settled, here is what happened:<p>Early Tuesday morning my WW called me at work and said that the OMW is really on the warpath. OM told her that morning that OMW said last night that she wants to destroy WW's life. OMW found out that WW was going back to work. OMW said that she has been protected from everything and she is going to make sure that my WW will rue the day that WW met OM. Additionally, which worried OM even more, OMW was going to go to work and spread the news. OMW was really scared. He new the OMW was going to do this. <p>WW told me that OM was not going to protect WW. He said he could not because he did not know what she was going to do (he did not even ask). I told her I would call OMW and try to talk to her (considered calling OM because I was real mad he was not doing anything). OMW hung up on me. I told WW that this was a bad sign. I got some quick legal advice, told WW that it may be a good idea to file a restraining order just in case. WW did not do this. I told her that she had three options: 1) stop seeing OM and let OMW know that everything is over, 2)Tell her boss everything before OMW does 3) Just sit tight and let sh** happen.<p>Well she rephrased all of this and sent a love/decision letter to OM. One big change, she modified 2 to read Tell boss that OMW was crazy and she may call about an A. OM did not respond to the email. WW was upset about this.<p>Later in the afternoon OM met WW. OM said that he loves her very much and never loved someone as much as her, but was scared that he was going to loose his career. WW just listened. He said that he was scared his wife was going to hurt her too. He said that he wanted to put their R on hold. My wife asked him twice which he responded "yes" to, "Does this mean you are giving up us for your career." My WW tried to be understanding (even though inside she was crying). She said that she was not going to sit around and wait. Hold means goodbye. He said, "I do not want to say goodbye, I love you and want to be with you." She said but you are giving up me for your career. He kept saying "no" I just want to wait until all this blows over, then we will get back together. This circular argument went on for a while with it ending with OM doing some major backpedaling and saying that he would do anything to keep her and that he loved her. WW push hard with her hand against his chest and said, "Just go fix your life". She jumped in the car and drove off.<p>My WW cried for hours Tuesday afternoon and night. She kept asking me if she misunderstood OM. I told her no, that in adversity he is showing you his true colors. I told her he is only interested in his career. This was a long discussion. She was worried that she misunderstood him and ended things prematurely. Finally, I gave up answering her questions and said that you knew that he would choose his career over you because we discussed it. I was there to console her until she fell asleep. I only wish I could have fallen asleep. I told her that this all had nothing to do with her and everything to do with OM as a person. She kept saying she was not good enough for OM that she was going to give everything up for OM that she was just waiting for me to leave. She said that OM even tried blaming this on WW by saying I just would not leave. WW told OM that she was sure I would leave, and it would only be a short time longer and that the problem was all his.<p>OM sent an email that night. It said I love you very very much BLA...BLA..BLA. WW was very very sad all weds. until OM finally called late in the afternoon. They had the same circular argument only this time WW understood that she did not misread what OM was saying and that OM was trying to push her away for a while. OM begged and pleaded and groveled with WW saying he would do anything. She told me that this made her sick. She told the OM "good I am glad you love me so much, but what good does it do me?" OM said he understood what she was saying. After the conversation, she told me that she felt better and asked me if I was feeling better. I told her no because I am not sure if this is all over yet. She then drove off to a party with her friends from work. Before she left, I asked her if OM was going to be there. She said, "I do not think so because OM would not go unless WW goes and I told him I was not going." <p>She did not get home till 12:30. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] I was very worried and scared that she was hurt. She did not bother even calling to tell me she was going to be late. OM was at the party. They had another circular argument. WW told OM that he had hurt her once before when OMW was on the warpath by not dealing with OMW and not protecting WW. <<Last time this happened, OMW threatened OM about telling the office unless he told her WW's name. He did not fight this and asked WW to call. WW did call the OMW.>><p>Well with all that said, I still feel sad. It hurts to see WW hurt so much for someone else. I never have seen her cry like that before. It also hurts to see her in so much pain. Deep inside, I do feel glad that it looks like this A is finally coming crashing to an end. I am scared and anxious though because it could turn around on a dime. <p>I am not sure how to proceed. I think I will continue the Plan A, and provide her with the support she needs to get through the withdrawal. She sounded like she was in good spirits this morning, at least better than yesterday morning. She is such a strong woman. Her life and childhood has made her strong.<p> [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] She just called me at the office just before I posted this. I worked all night getting her fax line wired through the whole freaking house. For some reason, she could not get on line to work. She was very angry with me and very mean. [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] I told her how she was making me feel and all of the effort I put into getting her set up. I told her all three lines were working when I left them last night. I talk her through which telephone line went where and had her test the data line. There was nothing wrong with the data line, but something wrong with her computer. Why is she still so mean to me? <img src="graemlins/teary.gif" border="0" alt="[Teary]" /> <img src="graemlins/teary.gif" border="0" alt="[Teary]" /> <p>I am so tired of this. She said she was sorry, and I quickly ended the conversation.

I have no idea what all of this means, or if there are clear signs of anything definite here.
Others may be more insightful in that area.<p>I will say this, though; you have shown restraint and understanding far beyond what could be expected of anyone in this situation, and you should be commended for that. I know I would not have had the patience and understanding you did.<p>All in all, it does look like the A is living its final days. If the situation is that critical, it'll be very hard for ti to continue. That may be good, but you're probably still in for quite a ride. Perhaps if you continue to do what you have been doing, it'll show her how much you care, and especially who is truly loyal. When it's over, this will probably count for quite a bit.

DL,<p>I'm copying something I said in my post to your other thread about mulitplication factor. Remember that I said this? (see below)<p>"Over time, the "safety" of the affair relationship works against the couple because the pressures of the affair: the longing, secrets, jealously and the frustrations that come with the hiding or attempt at controlling the feelings and OP's inevitable unavailablity, do force OP and WS's to show their ugly sides. This is where the doubts come in and when WS begins to wonder if this OP is really the one for them, if they are worth leaving the M for."<p>
The circular arguements, the negotiating, all of that you have described in your post here, not only have I lived through it for 6 1/2 years with my OM, but it can be thrown into the pile of @rap that will ultimately destroy their relationship if they continue on with it as it is, an affair. This very situation will cause your W ALOT OF FRUSTRATION and pain, ultimately, alot of Anger toward om and his actions.<p>I really related to this story and all I can say is that no one can keep up investing all that emotional energy, it grows weary.

Specifically referring to your comment about her treating you meanly... Expect more of this...<p>It won't make a lot of sense at times... she'll attack you for no apparent reason, her emotions will turn on a dime, etc. This is part of withdrawal, and should be expected.<p>By expecting it, you can adopt an attitude that can get you throught it. One single word you can repeat to yourself: "Whatever!" Just let it roll off your back. Well, do that, but also try to be comforting and understanding.<p>This will pass in time. As reality settles in, she will have less reason to be angry, if you keep from LB'ing. I do have concerns that they have contact at work - that's what I'm facing too.<p>But for you at least, it sounds like it's getting to be "good and over" - although be prepared for anything.

Dreamland....dude....you have shown INCREDIBLE strength and compassion. I totally understand why you would be down!!! Criminy, I think I would have moved out of state by now...it would have been the only thing preventing someone from injury.<p>I don't know what to tell you. Plan A is allowing your wife to cake eat. She's stringing you along by her own admission, waiting to see how things will turn out. She's keeping you around as a consolation prize. If you leave she gets to be the victim in her mind, because after all YOU left. And if you stay...well, she gets to treat you like **** because after all, she didn't make you any promises (again as previously stated). <p>My opinion would be to make some serious considerations for Plan B. I don't mean you have to rush off into it right away, just have a plan. Give yourself a timeline, get your thoughts in order for your Plan B letter, and figure out what arrangements you'll have to make in order to impliment it. Just HAVING that plan helped JR make it through some really similiar times.<p>WS's are at their undeniable worst in these situations. She's being extremely cruel. Unfortunatly I look back and can say that I was too. But an interesting difference to me in your situation is that your wife still seems to value you as a friend. She still uses you as her sounding board for all her lifes problem. My hubby was the LAST person to know what was on my mind, or going on in my life...no way would I have cried on his shoulder about the OM. I'm not sure what that means for you...just something I noticed.<p>I want to write some more about what your WW is headed for and what she's going through right now...but hubby and I have a date today. Read through JR's thread on age...I wrote some there about a WS's state of mind. Remember, my hubby and I did everything wrong and still wound up together. I SWORE he was NOT CAPABLE of being the man he is today. I was positive...ABSOLUTELY sure. As was he absolutely sure that I did not love him. Go figure.

I agree with Spacecase, although I'm no expert. I have been reading your other thread and have found the replies from former WS very interesting - I'm learning a lot - even though it takes all the strength you have right now and it hurts SO bad, if she ever comes out of her own personal hell, she will see clearly how much you gave her, how much you were there for her, and this will count for a lot, even though she is too blind to see it now.<p>WW is finally getting a taste of the bitter medicine - OM is showing his true colours and she is actually showing some strength of character by challenging him to prove he really loves her by defending her - he won't defend her - he is a man who wants to have his cake and eat it, too - he is demonstrating to her by his actions that she's just the jam on top that he wants to save for later. She wants to be the whole cake and now realizes that she isn't. When she cried, I don't think she was crying for him, as crying for herself - she is losing all her dream-fantasy blow by blow and it hurts her. She is realizing she is just being used. When she has time to reflect on just how big a S**T he has been to her, he better watch out. OMW could ruin his reputation at the office, but your wife could, too - he KNOWS that - that's WHY is being so sugar sweet to her. HE knows that when she wakes up to the damage he has done to her and her life, and that WHEN she takes charge of herself, gets up on her feet, takes all the talent she has and gets herself another job, she can turn around and expose him for the worm that he really is. <p>I admire you enormously Dreamland. You are going to get through this.<p>Odile

Finally have time to get back on and respond to all of your posts. New information is I asked my wife if she thought that the A was all over. She could not give me a straight answer of yes or no. She did say that she has a real sour taste in her mouth about the OM. This is what she said last time when WW was manipulated by OM to talk to the OM and give up her identity. So, I am not too hopefull now. I think she could be just playing a woman game with him, just not as consiously as that, but close. I hope otherwise. This is of course, a much worse blow to her love bank then before. She said that she realizes that OM has a serious personality disorder that puts a bad taste in her mouth. I wished she used other words than these. This sounds very non-comittal. I think she is still sitting on the fence. Just less on his side now than ever before. Maybe I need to shake the fence a little. PLAN B is probalby the thing to do if she does fall back into his arms. I am not sure. I have a good feeling she will not miss me.
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Spacecase,
I have still have high hopes. Unfortunately, it appears as though the more time she thinks (or I should say finds explanations for OM's behavior) the less of an impact this whole thing is to her. She appears not to be as depressed and tearful as before, and that is a bad sign. Withdrawal normally takes weeks, right? I think some of these A's the WW needs at the minimum a hit in the head with a piece of timber 2x4 just to get a negative reaction. I am hoping this was a whole truck load of 2x4's. As usual, through all of this I remain calm, understanding, loving, and compassionate,and all from the heart because I truly love her regardless of the fact that she exihibits very few of these qualities to me. Thanks for the encouraging words. I think I may be just nuts and that is why I can handle all this.
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CMiranda,
I think you are right. I am growing very weary, and it has only been a few months. (I changed my d-day, my journal was off a month because I was so wacked out.)
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J.R.,
I think the withdrawl may have slowed down or even stopped (a real bad sign). <p>They can work it out so that there is no contact at work. WW does not have to support him and WW requested that he use someone else, and he agreed.
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Hope,<p>I know [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] . I wish I could have told you'all yesterday. I did not feel right doing that at the time. WW has made no promises or comitments to me. She is just staying comfortable (I mean more comfortable then me leaving. I really think that she is going through some serious pain.) now at my expense.<p>You have hit upon an excellent point. If I did decide to leave, she will feel vindicated. I do not want to give her that. I think she will have to leave because I think I could outwait her. I love her very much and I know she will stop loving him eventually. I can live like this for a long time especially if I can withdrawal myself from the situation, but maybe Plan B is the way to go. Too hard to tell. I still have lots of hope right now. All of these things are a good sign that the A is crashing in on itself. OM is a bad man all around in my mind. Facts: Cheats on his wife; picks a married, pregnant, young woman, uses his powers of a boss to win her over (I wish we could sue his A**, He works for a huge bank and he would deserve it. He will do this again and someone needs to put a stop to him.), does not protect WW, does not give her any gifts, the list is real long. In short, he loves himself more than anyone else and is not willing to lose anything for anyone. He is a sorry excuse for a human being and a disgrace to men.<p>I will wait for the Plan B plans for a while. I am interested in seeing what will happen next first. <p>Thankyou for your continued insite. I will read your post to J.R. Have a great date!!! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]
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Odile,<p>Thanks for the compliment, but I am really not that much to admire. <p>I think you are right about the sugar sweet part. He is trying to protect himself from what could happen if she goes after him. He could lose everything and he deserves to lose everything.<p>If my WW does not stand up soon and become W and make OM a XOM, she may fall right back into his trap all over again.

Dreamland - <p>All very interesting information and the comments you have recieved are very good. If you think back a week or two you will remember that you were angry at my WW for some of the things she was saying to me and doing. Reflecting on the current situation it looks like normal WS behavior. They like to strike out at the BS to try and find a way to justify the A when it starts to come apart.<p>I certainly would not say the A is coming to an end but it is under strain. One thing I would sugggest is to try and not look at every comment or action and try to interpret them too much. This situation could change many more times over the next few days or weeks (unfortunately). What you are doing is great and I feel you have created the environment where there is great hope when the A dies.<p>As for the strain on the A, I believe OMW will follow through on some of her threats. Short of OM going back to OMW (which would end the A), I think she will lash out...just my opinion. Either way it plays out, the A if on life support so don't get to concerned that it doesn't look like it is over right now.<p>So what to do...as was suggested just try to let it roll off when bad things happen. Continue your Plan A but don't pursue to hard. Continue to create the positive environment you have made and take some time for yourself to recharge the batteries.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by dreamland:
<strong>If I did decide to leave, she will feel vindicated. I do not want to give her that. I think she will have to leave because I think I could outwait her. </strong><hr></blockquote><p>That's the thing isn't it - I also get sometimes the impression that my wife LB's on purpose so as to drive me away... That's why I think plan A is an excellent response, because you dont engage in a tit-for-tat war with spouse. <p>I see how you feel - I'll hang in with plan A for another while (albeit not for all too long). <p>Courage & good luck,
N

dreamland:<p>You're exercising incredible intestinal fortitude here!<p>"I think she is still sitting on the fence. Just less on his side now than ever before. Maybe I need to shake the fence a little. PLAN B is probalby the thing to do if she does fall back into his arms. I am not sure. I have a good feeling she will not miss me."<p>Plan B at this point might also FORCE her into his arms, which could QUICKLY assasinate this freakin' A once and for all. I think she WOULD miss you a helluva lot more than you give yourself credit for. Who is there to listen to her cry herself to sleep? Who's been the understanding one here, even when she's being so cruel to you? Take that away in an instant, and you'll see major crash and burn so fast that they won't have time to tape it for Reality TV!<p>But since you're doing so well, maybe the thing to do at this point is to keep up the excellent plan A effort for just a bit longer. See what the saga brings tomorrow?<p>This A CAN'T last much longer. I can't imagine it.

dreamland,<p>first ((((((Thousandhugs)))))))<p>I admire your strength and determination.
I think a shake in the fence would really make her fall somewhere. Plan A is good for a little while more, I agree, but the fence sitting needs to stop eventually.<p>I think what is going on right now is that she has to probe to herself that she did not throw her M away for a slime ball that would drop her like a hot potato the moment things go ugly, and she is having a real hard time gripping the concept. It is question of pride, nobody likes to feel ashamed and stupid, or being probed wrong.<p>The OM is definetly a cake eater. The potato is hot so he'll let it drop, then come back once it is a bit cooler, and odds are your WW will wait if there is no better alternative, and that is where you come into play.<p>Plan A strategically now. Score points with special things, things that will comfort her, show her you love her for real. You are doing a great job.
If all of that doesn't give the smallest result... I think the kick on the fence will. If she sees her security net (aka you) walk away, then she'll have to decide what she wants. <p>The man that never abandoned her when she was in need, or the slime ball that would turn and run as fast as he could.

Couldn't agree more 2long. This A looks like a piece of stale bread. Question is, when does it go on the grill and become toast? I asked myself that for awhile too. I thought it was gonna be over, but it really wasn't (now is, i hope). One barometer, of course, is when the WW's smugness is wiped off her face, to be replaced by sadness, anger, or just an unusual degree of mood swings.

Mark:<p>Heck, you made me realize something. My W has been getting a bit "clingy" lately. She's never been clingy. At least not in the past 20 years...<p>Part of this is probably due to the realization that my patience is running out... ...and I may not CARE when it's gone.<p>Dreamland's W is approaching that point, if she's not there already. If he leaves now, she'll be a wreck. OM can't help her.

dreamland:<p>I have followed your thread and thought I would chime in with my $0.02 as a neutral bystander.<p>Firstly, I echo the comments about your staying power. There is no way I could keep it together the way you have - I would have gone insane ot walked.<p>Anyway, if you can keep plan Aing for a little while longer, great. But watch the gas tank very carefully. I would start preparing for a plan B just in case. You don't want to burn out in plan A and then find that your love for your W is all gone.<p>Keep focussing on YOU and try not to dwell (if that's even possible) on interpreting every little nuance of your W's relationship with OM. It's hard to really know what's going to happen next and that just adds to the roller coaster.<p>Finally, for what it's worth, I think its time to ease out of being a "crutch" for your W. While you can argue that it allows you to show your W what a good person you are compared to OM, one could just as easily argue that you are being taken advantage of and thusly "enabling" the A.<p>Be nice about everything, don't necessarily give her the cold shoulder, but its time to let her start to get a dose of reality. If there is one common theme about A's fizzling out, it usually occurs when WS and OP are forced to face all of life's little issues together. Then the fantasy vaporizes.<p>Soldier on!

I am growing more and more hopefull daily as it appears more and more that the A has crashed and burned (this is probably a dangerous thing because these A's are so unpredictable).

My wife called a private investigator today to find out what the OMW could know and do. She is going to head off the OMW by discrediting her with my parents and with her parents. She will say that her boss has a jelous crazy wife and she may call them. I do not have a problem with this, but maybe I should?

I sent my wife a love/feelings letter, and I described the pain I have gone through and the fact that I am able to deal with this because she is such a wonderful women and I love her so much. She responded by showing remorse for what she did, and she said that "Maybe the fog is
lifting." This maybe is a tell tail sign that she is still on the fence. She ended the email by saying she loves me deeply. I am going to respond to her and (using her words to the OM) "thankyou for saying you love me, but what good does this do me."
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Onwardandup,
How are you doing? I am so very drained and numb. I want to pursue hard now because she is not getting her needs met by OM now. I do not want to be indifferent. This may be an oportunity to shine.
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Nick,
You are right, she has done things to try to make me leave. She has told me this.
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2Long,
I am torn as to how to proceed. I have an oportunity to fill needs the OM is not filling now. I can Plan B at any time. I have written two emails to her now to explain how I am feeling in all of this now, and now it is time to stop dwelling on this. I am going to turn up the heat on Plan A for now, and see what happens.
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Almostwife,
I think you are right about the pride issue, but I think it is also deeper than this. She needs to have the A work because she has comitted to it and she does not want to feel like a whore.

You are right about the Plan A. Strategic actions not just harder work is what will be required here.
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Mark,
You are right, and I am trying to guard my feelings and not hope too much.
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gourami12,
I can actually rekindle my love for her by thinking about past good memories. I have lost all my love for her many times and have been able to pull it back. I can last a long long time, much longer than their A can. I think this is what it will take. Who can be the most patient?

Your are right about focusing on the nuances of the relationship. I think knowing all about what is going on is a double edged sword, but in the end it will help us recover quicker because we are both being as honest as possible about everything.

I am allowing the A or enabling the A in my actions. There is no way around this. I can not make her stop the A, and I do not want to stop it. I want WW to stop the A. The OMW tried to stop this and kicked OM out and is going after OM and this is getting her nowhere but a D. I do not want a D so I will be true to myself now and my feelings.

I here what you are saying about the cold sholder indifferent aproach and I may try this later if they get back together.