What do I do in response to this? Nothing is my answer... but here I am starting my day in tears... obviously he is not into recovery.... advice guys... what would you experts do? or even novices...a dvice?<p>L, I do not feel comfortable with you. I sincerely believe that you have emotional problems. For whatever reason, I do not trust you and do not anticipate feeling good about being around you anytime soon. <p>I am also concerned about the children; I do not get to see them on periodic basis, and you have failed to let me take them to see their great grandparents who are in the eighties in Atlanta. Thus far you response has been "Only if I can go too". <p>There are going to have to be some more concrete gamerules here; namely divorce and custody / child support agreements. <p>Jim
honey wrote:<p>We will have to conference from my phone.. the counselors do not provide conferencing... so I will call in the counselor , her name is Jennifer, and you should call me at home to do this... I have 3 way calling.. or I can call you... I need to know your number I guess...

Do you have a willingness to try to make things better and come home with thes tart of this counseling? I've already read everything on th marriage builders site. I don't know, I just do not have that same feeling after being through so much ****, and I figure it would just continue to get worse and worse like it always did. <p> honey wrote: <p>JIm... can you read the basics on the mb site for rules for recovery,e tc? before the call.... <p>Basic Concepts
Why do people fall in love? Why do they fall out of love? What do they want most in marriage? How can a bad marriage become a great marriage?< P>My basic concepts address these and other important aspects of marriage building. Click each of the topics to the left for an overview of my approach to resolving marital conflict and restoring love. <p>If you only have a few minutes, and you want a quick summary, click A Summary of Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts, which is the last topic on the list to your left.<p>First Topic:
How Dr. Harley Learned to Save Marriages
Subject: Re: thurs. at 7pm
from jim<p>I will call in. I need the number, and I will find a place. <p> honey wrote: <p>
I have not heard from you, how will you arrange to conference in? Can you
please communicate with me?<p>h

Honey:<p>"you have failed to let me take them to see their great grandparents who are in the eighties in Atlanta."<p>Gee, I would have thought it'd be hotter than that in Atlanta, this time of year. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Seriously, Honey. Your H doesn't seem to be capable of making any real effort here. YOU are worth FAR MORE than they way you are being treated. <p>All my best,

Honey, your husband has some very major problems that aren't going to allow real recovery until they are dealt with. It even states that here on the MB site. All other addictions must be dealt with before recovery can sucessfully begin.<p>I know you want to remain married and I know YOU are ready for recovery to begin...but he is not. He can blame you for being this or acting like that...but it's just blame. Don't feed in to it. You know what you're responsible for and what you're not. Don't let him get to you.

thanks, I feel better already.. I almost feel like I am dealing with a 3 yr old temper tantrum... HOney [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Honey; you cannot drag him kicking and screaming into recovery. He's not ready.<p>And although you may not want to hear this, you may not be ready either. You have not let go of him; and you must do that before there's any chance of recovery.<p>You not allowing him to take the children "without you" is your way of saying "I want you here with me". Your asking if he'll come back "now that we're starting counseling" is the same.<p>You must let him go; otherwise he cannot start seeing that his continued actions are damaging. While you insist on having him come back, he believes he will not have to change and he believes there's nothing wrong with him. And this reinforces his belief that "you" are the problem; not him.

Honey -- hope4 makes a really important point that you really need to focus on.<p>Your H is an alcoholic. You cannot recover your marriage until he deals with those issues. No matter how much you want to -- you just can't.<p>So I hope that you bring this up with Jennifer tonight. <p>I read your first post -- and I'm not sure why you titled your post the way you did. You two obviously have trouble communicating -- you're not answering the questions he asked -- and he's not answering yours. He says divorce/custody and you say move home. ??? He says I need the #....you need to know all his arrangements. <p>Just give him the number!

I agree with ALL the other posts!<p>It sounds like the best way for the phone counseling to work is for him to call you while you are on the phone with Jennifer. Try not to communicate with him much today. He knows what time it is and he knows your #. Just tell him your real busy today, don't get into any debates or talk about the future. Since you two are starting counseling, you should take the back seat and let the counselors lead the recovery efforts. Your suggestions on reading will sound better coming from the Harleys than from you - he may interpret it as you trying to control him.

oops... he cant call in... unless he has conferenceing ability.. and all he has is a cell phone... no home number.. he does not want to run up the cell phone... so he is talking about going to the health club to use the phone...? ok?<p>what else.. the out of state trip> ? My h has threatened to steal the kids.. his dad a nice little lawyer in GA.. who used to be a child court judge...dept of fam and children friends.. and the same man who modeled taking the kids from his wife.... etc. advised my H to move our kids to ga and take them... establish residency... OK... also my h cant drive to GA without drinking and driving it is just a given... I have been way too kind to let him have the kids when I have let him already...<p>thanks for the advise...he is a just a tad worse off than you guys realize... <p>Honey [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]

I don't understand the problem with the conferencing. [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] <p>H and I each called in from separate phones... Steve H. conferenced us together. <p>???<p>I think the kids to Atlanta thing with H is a bad idea. But your response shouldn't be "Only if I can go with you". Honey, he doesn't want to be around you right now, and you need to accept that. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] Your response should be more along the lines of, "THe kids are my responsibility right now, and I don't think it's in their best interest to travel alone with you, based on your behavior the past few years (alcohol, money, affair)." If he pushes the issue, then yes, a custody arrangement will have to be made with the divorce, and lawyers and judges can help ya'll decide things like that. For now, you are the responsible parent (physically and financially).<p>Just my opinion. someone else may have a better way to word it, but that's the basic concept.

Honey,<p>This is why it is so important to trust yourself. You know your situation better than anyone else. <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> the out of state trip> ? My h has threatened to steal the kids.. his dad a nice little lawyer in GA.. who used to be a child court judge...dept of fam and children friends.. and the same man who modeled taking the kids from his wife.... etc. advised my H to move our kids to ga and take them... establish residency... OK... also my h cant drive to GA without drinking and driving it is just a given... <hr></blockquote><p>By the way I think you handled Zima man well. The thing I love about you is that you are honest and real and genuine. You put it ALL out there for us to see, analyze, dissect with you. That takes courage and tenacity. You are strong and confident and don't care too much about what others think. Zima meant to hurt you and you ended with a smile!!! I love that about you!!!

Only if I can go with you". to GA.. that was months AGO>.. we discussed this... MY H is trying to pick a fight... <p>I offered to go in seperate cars... I dont trust him right now...and for good reasons.. see above.. by no means am I trying to keep the kids from him, etc... this is just some sort of picking a fight routine...<p>they did tell me to handle the conferencing , so I guess control freak me... tried to tell h what to do... albeit he is very hard to figure out... since I never get a straight answer and he has no phone at home...a nd wont use his cell phone..? <p>I was just hoping to get some sort of hey.. I will be positive and try on the counseling stuff... but I have just gotten more crap... from him- OH well.

Faith and ILUV, thanks for your support and friendship... <p>WOW! Sorry I did not mention as much in quote above... I am on my way to healthy grilled chick salad and pilates class.. will come back with clearer head and more taken care of body.<p>Have a good luch!<p>Honey

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Honey:
<strong>oops... he cant call in... unless he has conferenceing ability.. and all he has is a cell phone... no home number.. he does not want to run up the cell phone... so he is talking about going to the health club to use the phone...? ok?<p>what else.. the out of state trip> ? My h has threatened to steal the kids.. his dad a nice little lawyer in GA.. who used to be a child court judge...dept of fam and children friends.. and the same man who modeled taking the kids from his wife.... etc. advised my H to move our kids to ga and take them... establish residency... OK... also my h cant drive to GA without drinking and driving it is just a given... I have been way too kind to let him have the kids when I have let him already...<p>thanks for the advise...he is a just a tad worse off than you guys realize... <p>Honey [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] </strong><hr></blockquote><p>Honey; then tell him that. DON'T tell him "only if I go"...two different messages.

Dear Honey, As hard as it is for us to accept our present "realities", our husbands are not in "recovery" mode. Be happy that he has agreed to some level of counselling. It is a HUGE step. Revel in that reality. I haven't even gotten to that stage since my H sees no reason for it. <p>However, I don't ask him to come home anymore. Why? Because he's not ready. If he was, he would be doing the asking...and that's really where I want him to be...in the WANT stage. <p>Unfortunately, we can't push them to this stage. They must fall into themselves. And fall they will. <p>Don't pressure him. Thank him for agreeing to the counselling. Leave it that, sweetie. No more. <p>I try very hard to ask nothing. Expect nothing and be surprised when SOMETHING/ANYTHING happens. <p>They're in a sad place but they have to want to leave it. <p>You're a good person, Honey. Protect yourself and your children. Definitely, the Atlanta trip is a BAD idea. Stay firm on that one. He's trying to manipulate the situation. <p>I'll be thinking of you.

thanks spacey and T... We have not discussed any atlanta trip for at least 4 + months..he just throws that at me... as a reason to be mad... ! [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] and at the time... I suggested I go with my H... we were seeing quite a bit of each other... me and the kids spending the night with h at his place... et .c... He is OFF HIS ROCKER>>> ! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] SERIOUSLY..he pulled that one out of you know where... ! [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Thanks for the support- friends... <p>Feeling way better after lunch .. great workout and made some new friends at the gym... <p>Honey [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img]

Honey,<p>I am glad you have not let the children go with him to Atlanta. He is a drinking alcholic...an accident waiting to happen. It's up to you to see that your children aren't in the accident with him. Hang tough...he sounds just like my ex-H when he was still drinking...trying to divert the responsibility of his problem from him to you. They become a master at this game because it's a matter of survival to them.<p>They don't think they can survive without drinking; that is if they can think at all. Anything that interferes with the next drink is the enemy to them.. You're in a no-win situation until he is well into recovery himself.<p>Even after alcoholics stop drinking their life is no picnic. They find that they have to face the problems that have been waiting for them and they don't have the alcohol to numb them from the pain. It's just a sad sad sad sad situation.<p>Bless you, CSue

thanks a million CSUE>.. sounds like you have been there and done that... gonna go chill a bit... my phone session is soon.... <p>Hgs , HOney [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img]