Here are a few lines that I posted on my main thread:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I truly think that the OM is avoiding her, and if so, it is having an effect of a "Plan B" from him, and getting her attention from that R instead of ours.

I have never seen that aspect posted or referred to here, but think about it.....His going into the "no contact" state would tend to have the same effect. Due to the nature of the A ending on my discovering it, I think the WW does not sense it as a LB'er from him, but rather as a result of me. Therefore, her LB$ did not reduce on his end, but it probably did on mine. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What are everyone's thoughts on this concept?

It seems as though the WS COULD get into the situation of "wanting what you can't have". If the A dies a death, other than what we refer to as a "natural" death, could that in itself be another obstacle to recovery?

In my instance, there is a good chance that the OM dropped the R with my WW due to not wanting to place HIS W and 4-year old in jepoardy. Of course, I would in no way even think of harming them (unless maybe causing him some suffering with the aspect of losing his job). Then again, I read that as his family is a heck of a lot more important to him than my WW. But....I am quite sure that the WW in her state of mind is going to read that as ME ruining her A, and that the OM still wants her, but now I am in between them.

So....now she is facing the fact (in her mind) that she wants him, he wants her, I am in a way preventing that, and so she blames me. So.....she desires the OM even MORE! Or is my way of thinking wrong?

Although I saw some things yesterday evening that make me think there is STILL an active R between them, but what I saw could be purely coincidental.

Let's see some discussion on this aspect of an A being revealed and brought to a halt....

hcii

hcii:

Hm... I'm not sure what you want to accomplish with this. If you're right, then your W thinks of you as the bad guy, no matter what you did or might do. If OM is "plan Bing" her from his end, then let him. It can only help wake her up and maybe help you in the long term (if your W gets her brain back and is someone you want to be with again). If, on the other hand, OM IS continuing his A with your W, why not contact OMW? Seems at this point, you have nothing to lose. But if you have any hope of getting back with your W (with her own brain, that is), this would be a huge LB, and so the "prime directive" would be in order.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Hm... I'm not sure what you want to accomplish with this. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Actually not trying to accomplish anything, just curious as to other's thoughts if this is a real possibility.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> If OM is "plan Bing" her from his end, then let him. It can only help wake her up and maybe help you in the long term (if your W gets her brain back and is someone you want to be with again). </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OM is no doubt not trying to Plan B, just has decided that WW is not worth the trouble, now. He has stated to WW that no way could he (he means WOULD, just not gonna tell WW that) leave his W and D, because of the "financial strain" (his words).

The thing that bothers me, and I guess it does all of us, is SHOULD she come to me and say that she thought there MAY be a chance for us (even though she has already filed), how can I be sure that I am just not her "second" choice? How do I know that knowing that her A is now "over", she just wants to return to her "previous" state. That would be a strong possibility due to the fact I pretty well know she is getting tired of staying with Mommy & Daddy. She was "Queen" of her own castle for 14 years.

As to contacting OMW, I did the instant I found out about the A, within minutes, in front of WW and her parents (Whoa....I'll never forget that look...they DIDN'T expect that), but not since. I am unsure as to how the OM has "salved" over the wounds with OMW. That...due to the fact...that the only evidence is a confession from WW and her Family to me.

The "kink" in communicating with the OMW about this is the A happened ALWAYS in daylight, on weekends. I almost never convinced the OMW that there was an A, because she told me that was impossible because the OM had NEVER been away for even ONE night. I still am unsure on how the OM smoothed that one over with OMW. Hell....He could have even convinced her it was all a lie, I don't know......I have no "proof" to offer.

But....got a PI starting Monday....Two-fold reasons....

1 - To see if A REALLY is over for my sake. Even though I am ready for DV, and think it will end that way, I have to know in order to satisfy that .001% chance I may retract from acceptance. If they are still active, I'm done with it.

2 - Ammunition. Leverage. Revenge. Negotiating material. Proof takes OM from $25.00/hr to "flipping burgers". And probably paying CS and alimony out of that. Main idea is "leverage". If WW really cares about OM, I may "trade" proof for good settlement. I know, I know....wicked, ain't it. But hey.....a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do.

Anyway, may main issue was just to ask everyone if the scenario of OM "dumping" WW, due to my knowing, could possibly "blind" her to my Plan B.....

hcii

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">there is a good chance that the OM dropped the R with my WW due to not wanting to place HIS W and 4-year old in jepoardy. Of course, I would in no way even think of harming them (unless maybe causing him some suffering with the aspect of losing his job). Then again, I read that as his family is a heck of a lot more important to him than my WW. But....I am quite sure that the WW in her state of mind is going to read that as ME ruining her A, and that the OM still wants her, but now I am in between them.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It's Friday nite and I'm pooped, so I apologize if I'm still not understanding. I'd like to try, cuz I can sorta see where your trying to go with this... I think <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> . Forgive me if I'm way off target here of what you're looking for.

The "A dying a natural death" encompasses a huge variety of actual "causes of death". In general - Plan B forces the affairees into a "reality" situation... all WS needs are to be met by the OP. Usually, the OP can't handle that, because they are either married with a family and responsibility, image, routine, etc., OR (as in my case) the OP is single, and is accustomed to being single, and then they are all of a sudden forced into a committed R with someone who's accustomed to being married (lots of time together, openness, joint-decisions, etc.).

Often, as in EVERYTHING (the marital problems, the affair, job-loss, etc) will be blamed on us, the BS. For whatever reason the A dies, the WS will OFTEN blame the BS, because we are somehow not allowing them to get what they want. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> (We're such meanie's aren't we?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> )

Does that help? Your W IS likely to blame you. Even though we write a PLan B lettter, explaining our love and desire to be married, and explaining that PLan B is NOT a punishment or manipulation - but merely protection of our love bank while contact continues!!! Even though we explain all that... they STILL often think we are the bad guy!

Am I understanding you to say that OM is running back to his family? Then Plan B worked, as I described, becuase he was forced into being SOLELY resonsible for meeitng your W's needs, and he didn't really WANT that. He wanted a fantasy world of part-time passion and romance.

Now, as far as YOU fearing being the "consolation prize" because her fantasy world might not work... well, I hope someone can help you with that. I've seen that debated quite a bit on here, and I just can't formulate the positive answer for you right now! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <it's filed away in my brain somewhere!> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> I think the general answer for that is to get the WS committed to the marriage one way or another - even if they feel they are "settling", THEN the steps of Recovery will rekindle real love and passion.

hcii-

I see what you're getting at - that her attention is more focused on the loss of OM's attention than the loss of your attention. Where normally the object of Plan B is to have them respond "hey, where'd my spouse go?" so to speak, she was first focused on, and now too busy noticing, the loss of the OM's attention.

I think that's definitely a possibility. This is probably one of the reasons it is better if the A dies a natural death - the WS doesn't perceive it as an LB from the BS who "interferes".

This may apply to my situation, though I wasn't in Plan B when it happened. The OW cut off contact with my WH because she was afraid of another confrontation from me, as well as being socially perceived as being a direct cause of the end of my marriage. I know my WH was not happy at all with me when this happened, and this may have been a factor that prevented him from receiving my Plan A efforts.

As far as if she comes crawling back to you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I think it would be best for all of us who are separated to set some boundaries and guidelines as to what needs to happen - before we are swept off our feet by the WS coming back.

<small>[ June 28, 2002, 07:55 PM: Message edited by: Jelly Girl ]</small>

[QUOTE] Does that help? Your W IS likely to blame you. Even though we write a PLan B lettter, explaining our love and desire to be married, and explaining that PLan B is NOT a punishment or manipulation - but merely protection of our love bank while contact continues!!! Even though we explain all that... they STILL often think we are the bad guy!

Am I understanding you to say that OM is running back to his family? Then Plan B worked, as I described, becuase he was forced into being SOLELY resonsible for meeitng your W's needs, and he didn't really WANT that. He wanted a fantasy world of part-time passion and romance./QUOTE]

BINGO Faith1!...

That is the question, and points that I am trying to make. I was wondering how it usually plays out with the WS, when the WS is placing the blame of the A dying on the BS? I know that is probably a very generic question that there is no answer to.

My concern for the most part, is even though I understand the concept of the OM "getting the heck out of Dodge", because he now senses the pressure of a WW who has now (by filing, and by my knowing) pursuing the A with him harder than ever. Maybe even trying to talk the OM into DV'ing. I think he probably now is "re-thinking" the whole thing (for the most part). He may still desire a "little action", but now the "world", so to speak, is watching, so the OM either totally quits, or lets the contact get so little that the WW now becomes annoyed.

Now...with the WW "annoyed", I can see one of two things happening.

1 - She gets "p***ed at him (Which is good)
2 - She desires him even MORE, because now she feels she CAN'T have him.

I guess that all depends on the personality of the WS, and not anything that has happened in particular.

So..Yes...you are seeing where I am coming from, and where I am leading with this. But now, I see a # 3.....

3 - She desires the OM even more, realizes that OM is NOT cooperating at all, THEN she gets p***ed!

So...in essence...#2 happens first, then #1, and that equals #3. Hey!...2+1=3 ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I think I have it figured out.

What I was doing, was forgetting the concept of the OP having to meet ALL the EN's of the now "Plan B'ed" WS, and the result thereof. The result of that occuring which makes the WS THEN look at the BS in a different light.

I was jumping to the "Plan B" causing the WS looking at the BS differently, immediately.

Even though that CAN happen, and probably does every once in a while, there is that period of time that the OP either can't or won't "perform". That was what I was forgetting.

Thanks for reminding me of that. I was sensing my "Plan B" driving the WW CLOSER and FASTER to the OM, and that was bothering me. But...now I see where that IS a desired effect, one that we may have to go through. I had just forgotten (or not understood, totally) the entire concept.

That is not a big issue in most cases, but when you can get DV'ed in 60 days, it CAN be.....

hcii

I agree with Jelly, if OM has ended it, then you W is going through withdrawl. Hopefully he doesn't reinitiate contact. I'm not sure, but I think if she is going through withdrawl, that can only be a plus, because if OM avoids her long enough, then you might get a chance for recovery. Keep hanging in there and be your best. I'm cheering for you hcii.

I don't think I would call it Plan B when a OP ditches the "arrangement". Their intent is self preservation, not preservation of their love bank. I think it's just a natural consequence in most affairs...someone has to end it when the reality is reeking havoc with their fantasy.

I also think it's natural that the blame shifts to you. "In the fog" WS's are looking to shift blame for any discomfort to their spouse so that their fantasy life is ok. They want to feel entitled to ditching the marriage, or atleast a little something on the side. And they don't want to hold any responsibility for problems because that would bring more guilt in to play...which, by the way, gets blamed on the BS too.

It's a cycle that does end when the affair is actually over. Eventually the WS can no longer blame the BS. That's a pretty painful realization for a WS. To realize that not only is your BS NOT a horrible control freak (or whatever label they've been given), in fact THEY were the one being horrible and cruel. But that day won't come until the affair is FOR SURE over, and withdrawl is over.

hcii:

You've gotten some good feedback, and I'm more hopeful for you right now than I am for me - and MY W is STILL HOME. We had our first real argument since March, and though I think I handled myself as well as I could have, minus one BIG LB, I have to wonder if the closeness we've had the past month will now disappear again.

In my case, OM appears to be trying to intice my W to continue this limited contact, or maybe even come work with him in NM, because his W tossed him out last month. And my W insists on being able to maintain contact, seemingly with the support of her IC and our MC. And though she thinks OM will tire of the pursuit, she doesn't even recognize that the fact that he's pursuing her is an insult to her intelligence!

I got so much fog talk today that I don't think I can think straight right now. Make sense? No? Good, I'm right then! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I also think it's natural that the blame shifts to you. "In the fog" WS's are looking to shift blame for any discomfort to their spouse so that their fantasy life is ok. They want to feel entitled to ditching the marriage, or atleast a little something on the side. And they don't want to hold any responsibility for problems because that would bring more guilt in to play...which, by the way, gets blamed on the BS too.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">They sure have a keen way of doing that.

Yesterday, the WW called here several times. I did not answer any of her calls. She could have left a message, but didn't. She hasn't called like that in 2 months. I don't know whether she just wants to talk (I doubt it), or she is pee'ed (I'm pretty sure of that one though).

A month or so ago I did small "meanie <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ", and it would just be showing up now. Sort of a "snoop" one. But then again, when I did the "meanie" of changing the locks, she didn't confront me. So....I am not really sure why she has rung the phone so much. But I'll probably find out I'm sure.

Something sure has her attention, though. Even if turns out to be something she doesn't like, I still at least have gotten her attention. That is something I haven't had in a while.

What's that old saying?....."Sometimes attention is good even if it's Bad?.....

hcii