You responded to a previous thread of mine regarding depression. Like I said, this is something I suspected a long time ago. My W seemed to have some of the classic symptoms: She wasn't sleeping well, lost weight, complete loss of desire to give or receive affection, being unhappy but not being able to pinpoint why, withdrawing from me. She was already involved in her EA at this time, which may have boosted her self esteem for a while. She doesn't appear unhappy in that she's not moping around or crying alot, at least not in front of me. A year after she first told me she was unhappy, she filed for D, but that was eight months ago and has been very slow to follow through with it. She doesn't talk to her family about our problems or the D and has never been able to give them a reason for it, in fact has never even given me a reason for it. She is extremely close to her family, but has shut them out about this. Maybe she doesn't want them to tell her what she doesn't want to hear.

I don't want to get caught in the trap that many BS's do in thinking that there must be something clinically, psychologically or emotionally wrong with my W. But the question that eats away at me is if she's so unhappy and it's because of me and/or our marriage, why aren't we divorced by now. It's been 20 months since she first told me she was unhappy. She has not read any self help books, sought IC, or done anything to try to figure out why she's unhappy and what she can do about it. I know there's nothing I can do to help her, but I can't help but think if D was really the key to her happiness, we'd be divorced by now or at least separated. God knows I've given her chances to sell the house and be away from me. Our marriage may very well be over, but I don't want her to end up like many others who get divorced only to find themselves even more miserable. Her life won't be easy. In addition to not having her daughter around half the time, she'll being spending much of her spare time working a second job just to make ends meet. She won't have much of a life. I worry she'll find her world crashing down around her. I know that's not my problem anymore, but she's the mother of my child, I care about her and I want her to be happy, but I don't think she's any closer to knowing what that would take now than she was 20 months ago. Her EA and the after affects of that only add to it all.

Should I talk to her about this, or is this something she has to figure out on her own? I guess the way I see it is that once I'm gone, she'll either be happier or she'll begin to see that I wasn't the problem, at least not all of it, after all, and will have to look inside herself for answers.

sad dad

<small>[ June 29, 2002, 11:36 PM: Message edited by: sad dad ]</small>

sad dad,
your post merits a longer response, but here just 2 random thoughts at this point:
- obviously, you still care very much for your wife, and vice versa too, which is v. good. that means, you should - at least for the time being - stay in plan A
- your W's unhappiness seems like a mistery to you.... but there's probably no one better positioned to know WHY she is unhappy than you. so: what do YOU think is the underlying reason? ENs not being met? which ones?
good luck
nick

<small>[ June 30, 2002, 09:14 AM: Message edited by: Nick123 ]</small>

Actually the way you've described her sounds so much like where I was at a couple of years ago. It took having my world come crashing down on top of me to finally decide to do something about it. You can mention that you think she might be suffering from depression, but as you said, that didn't go over well in the past. Many people suggested anti-depressants to me and I refused them over and over. It's like any other problem...the person with the problem has to make the decision to fix it.

I know you don't want to see her suffer and you don't want to take away what little comfort she has now...but in a way it may be the very thing she needs to make any progress in her life. Either way, they are her choices to make. If she winds up suffering because she refuses to help herself...there simply isn't anything you can do about that.

I don't agree with Nick (no offense!!). I think you've done plenty of Plan A, you've given her plenty of support and opportunity to change the course of her life. Don't caretake her. You've got your plans...worry about you and your daughter.

I doubt very seriosly that she wants the divorce. I don't think many people really ever do. She's just very lost right now. I did very much the same thing. Filed when I just didn't see any other way, then drug my feet. The only times I moved forward was when I was pushed by hubby. So my opinion is to continue on towards your Plan B (ESPECIALLY since you've told her you are going to do so) but don't do any pushing for the DV. That's her choice so let her do the work to get it moving forward.

It might be ok to inform family of your concerns about her, though. If you're close with the sister, let her know your concerns. But then step back and continue on in your plan. It might well be the only thing that will show WW the true consequences of her actions/inactions.

nick,-

"your W's unhappiness seems like a mistery to you.... but there's probably no one better positioned to know WHY she is unhappy than you. so: what do YOU think is the underlying reason? ENs not being met? which ones?

I don't really know. One thing I will tell you is that shortly before "the talk" (when she first told me she was unhappy) when had been trying to have another child. We tried for a year and a half. We both got checked out and were both fine, but it was very frustrating, more so for my W than me I believe. Her Dr. put her on fertility meds for one cycle. Is was about 4 weeks after later that we had "the talk". I did read at the time the one of the side affects of fertility meds is depression, but I don't want to put too much into that, the timing's just suspect.

hope4future,

As usual, you've given some very good advice. I have done the best plan A I can, I just don't think it's about me at this point.

"I doubt very seriosly that she wants the divorce. I don't think many people really ever do. She's just very lost right now. I did very much the same thing. Filed when I just didn't see any other way, then drug my feet. The only times I moved forward was when I was pushed by hubby. So my opinion is to continue on towards your Plan B (ESPECIALLY since you've told her you are going to do so) but don't do any pushing for the DV. That's her choice so let her do the work to get it moving forward."

She really does seem lost. Unhappy buy not really sure why or what she can do about it. Your situation seems to mirror hers. All I can do is leave her alone to deal with her own issues and hope she finds some answers. Whether she's depressed or just unhappy, I think some IC would really help, but that's a decision she has to make. I will talk to my SIL. We are extremely close and have talked some about this before.
Thanks!!!

sad dad

P.S. Can you elaborate a little on your story. I'm not familiar with it.

Hi SD- I just wanted to add my thoughts that I too think your W is struggling with untreated depression. It affects women twice as much as men- I think this is due to biological differences between men and women. I know for me I had a family history of anxiety and depression and yet I was still too embarassed and reluctant to get on any medication for it until D-day actually was the reason I finally sought help. If you could mention your concerns to your W's family maybe they could influence her to seek help for it.Do you know if any of your wife's relatives have had depression? Both my aunt and grandmother had panic attacks and severe depression but in my immediate family it was considered that those were "personal weaknessess' rather than treatable physical problems.That is why I was so reluctant to go for real help. I take effexor which is a new med that treats BOTH anxiety and depression and its helped me quite a bit this last year. I honestly wish I had gotten meds sooner because I know my depression was affecting my marriage in a bad way for several years before my H had his affair. Just wanted to share my own experience with you. Take care- lifeismessy

lim,

Thanks for replying. Can you describe how you felt? I don't mean after d-day, but before that. Was it just a lingering feeling of being unsatisified or unfulfilled? What were your symptoms or changes in behavior or changes in your outlook on things? I think I read somewhere that difficulty getting pregnant can contribute to it.

sad dad

Sad Dad

Actually, my hubby and I went through 6 years of infertility treatments and finally adoption. It's definatly a major stress on even the healthiest of marriages.

I think you described how it felt very well. Just an overall BLAH feeling. That's part of the reason I rejected medication for it. It just didn't feel like anything major, I was sure that when I was ready I could deal with it...I just needed a little time. Well, that time just kept ticking and ticking and ticking away. It's like they describe a frog in boiling water...it's such a gradual thing that you don't realize how much worse you feel than when it started. I'd have good days and bad days, but little did I realize how bad the "good" days really were. Once I got on a mild antidepressant, within no time I couldn't believe how much better I felt.

Another factor that really ties in with the depressive, can't pull out of it, feeling is age. If your wife is around 28-32 she's probably going through her 30 yr transition. I described it on a post from JR...I'll see if I can find that.

Depression is a BIG stumbling block in relationships and EXTREMELY common. I know we don't want to automatically assume you can just take a pill for any malidy and it will go away...but it is practically impossible to fix the rest of your life when you can barely motivate to get up in the morning. I refused help for too long...I wouldn't do it again. It's not like you have to take them for the rest of your life...just take them long enough to get out of the pit. I only took them 3 months and haven't had to be on them since.

"A Womans Book of Life" by Joan Borysenko
My counselor had recommended it a couple of years ago, and it really was interesting! It also gives me a clue in to my next life cycle (she says women go through them every 7 years or so).

I'll quote an excerpt:

In early and middle adulthood the process of adolescing, or growing up, coexists with the process of senescing, or growing down, periods when our life structures go in to decline. The life structure is defined as a boundry between ourselves and the external world that functions as framework for occupational and family relationships. It is composed of our hopes and dreams, values and talents. How will we fit into the world? What is important to us? What will make us happy?

The period that spans the late teens to mid fourties is one of building the life structure for our adulthood. The early thirties are what he calls a "structure-changing or transitional period that terminates the existing life structure and creates the possibility for a new one". .....

The major task involved in the age thirty transition, which Levinson found to span the years between 28 and 32, is the exploration of new possibilities and the finishing up of old business that may be getting in the way of a woman's continued growth.

Inherent in reevaluating what Levinson calls our "necessarily flawed" early life structures, are nagging questions about how to combine work and family, whether to combine work and family, and whether early marriage partnerships are working out. These questions may be further confounded by the stress of infertility. Many women in their 30's want to be mothers, but either can't conceive or have trouble carrying the pregnancy to term. Will they persevere in trying to concieve or alter their life plan? Central to a woman's age thrity transition is the question "what do I really want?"

etc....

sad dad,
I'll put my 2 cents in here as well.

Prior to D-day, I would say that I was in a sort of a depression as well. lim's post sort of hit home with me. I was determined to fight my "down" times myself, (which happened occasionally) and didn't want to seek any help for it. Shortly after d-day, I got on zoloft and it was amazing the difference it made. I only stayed on it for 9 months, and NOW I'm NOT returning back to the "pits" where I was before. Reading and counseling (and my PLan A for myself) has helped me.

How did I feel? I felt "blah". and Confused. Actually this was a big "talk" that H and I had a week before d-day... BAD timing... it justified his A even more... because he thought I was miserable in the marriage, and thought I was blaming him.

WHy was I "depressed"? Well, several reasons: We had just gone through almost 2 years of him fighting cancer, which was a huge emotional strain. We had been trying to get pregnant for 6 months before the cancer, then the cancer interrupted those plans, and we were trying to resume those efforts with no luck. We had just bought a new house, and I my long commute and hours away from home was VERY frustrating and tiring. I also didn't like my job at the time. Basically, I was feeling like nothing was turning out as I had "planned". ya know?

ANyway.... lots of things causing me to feel "unsatisfied", "unfulfilled", etc.

hope4 mentioned the 30's transition. I was 31 this time last year. Plus... many women around this age are facing the failure of their "Cinderella hopes and dreams". Unfortunately, many women grow up with hopes and dreams of the "perfect wedding", to a Prince Charming, with the nice little family and house, and living "happily ever after". When this stuff doesn't happen, we get frustrated.

Anyway... I was attempting to answer your question of how it feels... and maybe what she's going through...

I sure couldn't put my finger on why I was depressed. I just knew I was. And, unfortunately, my H thought I was blaming him. He felt responsible for my dilemma (he's "supposed to be" the provider, protector, etc., right?) And since he was already in an EA... this "pressure" from me pushed him out the door.

Hope that helps a little bit.

hope4... Wow! Thanks for posting that excerpt!

<small>[ July 01, 2002, 10:21 AM: Message edited by: Faith1 ]</small>

hope & faith,

Thanks for checking in. My W had just turned 32 when we had "the talk". My W first got pregnant in '97. She miscarried, but was pregnant again with in a few months and we had our wonderful little girl. For whatever reason, we weren't successful the next time around. How much that my have contributed to things is anybody's guess.

sad dad

It's also possible she didn't get pregnant because where she was at emotionally. Sometimes people think they need a child and then they'll be happy. I thought that about our marriage. If we just get pregnant, or get a child, THEN we'll be ok. Like Faith said...the cinderella theory. I was sure that without a child we couldn't be a family, and that's what I wanted. Often the unhappiness itself, and the frustration and pressure of trying to have a child, work against you.

hope,

Whatever the reason for her unhappiness, depression, me, our marriage, one thing for sure is that by leaving I take myself out of the equation. If I truly am the cause of her unhappiness, her life will be better without me. If not, I hope she finds the answer. All I can do is follow through with my plan to leave and move forward with my life. If she decides somewhere down the road she wants a life with me, I hope for my daughter's sake I still do.

sad dad

Hi SD- From the way you describe your W's behavior and your marriage so far I really don't think YOU are the reason for your W's unhappiness. When you really think about it- it's not emotionally healthy to rely on your mate or anyone else to 'feel happy.' A person has to find that from within. However I had no understanding of that when I was depressed. I blamed my H for moving us across the country where I knew no one ( 5th job transfer for him). I was tired of having to relocate and make new friends all over again. Everything seemed like it wasn't worth the effort to me. My H suggested I go back to college for my masters or find a part-time job and I would agree but then never follow thru because of anxiety about possible failure and feeling like it wasnt worth the effort.I blamed him for not MAKING me happy! This led to us fighting more and more and eventually he started turning to OW for emotional support. After I finally got on anti-depressant/anxiety meds and into counseling for a few months I began to feel stronger and more able to cope with making changes in my life. Since then I have become much more put together emotionally and less afraid to try new things.I only wish things hadnt had to reach rock bottom before all this but sometimes that's necessary to get people to feel the need to make true changes within themselves. lifeismessy

lim,

I don't claim to be the perfect H, I have my faults and shortcomings like anyone else, but in the big picture I've been a very good H. I just don't believe I alone can be responsible for such long term unhappiness in my W, and I think deep down she knows that, otherwise we would have been divorced a long time ago. Steve H. told me my W just wants to be happy and as long as I'm around I'll be a scapegoat for her unhappiness. Removing myself from the situation is beneficial for my own well being, but it will also give her a chance to look at herself and her life. She may have to hit rock bottom before she realizes only she can change the path she's headed down. Even if it's too late for our marriage, I hope she's able to figure our why she's unhappy and do whatever's neccesary to change that. She deserves to be happy and our daughter needs her to be happy.

sad dad

I think that is a very good plan! And you are sooo right. When hubby was no longer my cause for unhappiness, I had to look at the rest of my life. At first I could blame it on not having someone in my life, but I came to realize it wasn't that either. The problem was me...and the only one who could fix that was me.

I know it's scary not knowing if she'll ever figure it out, or knowing that she might have to hit rock bottom before she does. And knowing you might not care once she does! Just worry about today...let tomorrow unfold for itself. You can never tell what's around the next corner, so it's wasted energy worrying about it now.