Hello.

I've been hanging out here a bit this weekend trying to learn, and to figure out what more to do with my marriage. We've been married almost 24 years, 4 daughters.

My H is in an A with a married woman, she's having overnights there (I think she may live there part-time), and I blew the first 3 months of our separation big time. In a nutshell, I spent that first three months working on my finances, begging/reasoning with him, and trying to just get through my day. After re-discovering this site (I found it just before H moved out, but go so wrapped in things I ignored/forgot it) and divorcebusting.com, I am trying to apply a few principles.

First, I cannot Plan B right now. We are involved heavily in some financial problems and getting our D into college. Will be traveling with him this week to deliver D to freshman orientation. And I've been in some legal hotwater becasue of him. He'd forgotten to pay an insurance premium and another D was in a car accident, and we are in a state with financial responsibility laws. The state is coming after ME for damages (car was registered in my name) and I may also lose my driver's license for a few months because of it.

I do intend to Plan B him if necessary once many of these perfunctory problems are addressed. But right now I am also attempting many of the Divorce Busting concepts with him as well. (Doing a 180 on him, working on myself). Plan A is difficult here. I am trying to be his friend, and that is hard because of the many months of arguments and fighting we had before he left, and because we both are very insecure around each other.

H is in the middle of a MLC as well. He seems to be working on some of our "perfunctory" problems. Like, making sure the financial aid for our D going to college is set and he said to me that he was going to take a loan out from his 401K to help pay for damages for other D's accident. OK. All well and good. A good number of our problems (not all, but many) are due to his financial irresponsibility. Many others are due to other reasons.

Otherwise, the man seems to have done a complete 180 on me with this affair.

Now, yesterday, he came by to pick up our youngest to hang out and go skateboarding with her. It went alright. When he came by, the youngest wasn't awake yet, so we discussed the mechanics of getting D#2 to her college orientation. That went OK. No arguments, just some tension.

They were gone quite a while, I think they left about 9:30, returned about 3:30ish. I was impressed that he spent so much time with her. When they returned, H spent time in the house yacking with the other 3 Ds. I went outside to let out the dog and grab mail. Dog ran out of yard, saw other dogs, and wanted to play with them. I called dog back, but it was useless. I ignored dog.

Sat on retaining wall, started going through the mail. H came out to say goodbye. Asked if there was any mail for him. I didn't say anything, handed him the pile, let him go through it. Nothing for him. He noticed dog was loose. I expected him to get mad, but he didn't. Just asked me about the dog... "Why is dog loose." Told him that she does this occasionally. That it was a game for her. If I chase her, she runs off further. It's a way for her to alleviate boredom. I call her a few times, but if she doesn't return, then I ignore her. She comes back in ten or 15 minutes anyway.

He stood there looking at me, we each smirked at each other. He offered me a hug. (Unlike him since this MLC/affair thing!!) Gave me a small kiss... (Also unlike him right now.) We said our goodbyes and he parted. Haven't communicated with him since, although I'll need to sometime before tomorrow night about the college orientation trip and some legal/financial things.

The first three months of our separation has been laden with arguments, many of which I'll admit I probably baited. But all along he's admitted he was wrong for starting that affair, but he continues it. He once told me that he thought our marriage had a chance, but that he now thinks he may want a divorce (heard that one earlier this week). He thought we could part as "friends..." That is ridiculous right now in my view. So much antagonism. But, the events of yesterday make me wonder what in the heck is going on in his head.

What's going on here? CAn anyone clarify what's happening here. How can I encourage those small positive steps I saw in him yesterday when I talk to him again. I'll probably talk to him again in the next day or two. I know he'll leave it up to ME to contact him about those things... he likes to play it oh so cool with this MLC. It's like he's a teenager again and nothing is important. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Thanks.

<small>[ June 30, 2002, 08:43 AM: Message edited by: bluekeys ]</small>

Bluekeys,

The fact that your H is sending off confusing signals is a good sign. The on/off OW can't be that great.

As dumb as this sounds if she is already with him. Let her meet as many of his needs as you can let happen. See the OW just wants the fun part. U need to give her the rest of him.

Finances are always stressful. In my case the OW promised the WS relief from financial problems. In return she wanted his love and s3x. Maybe not even love just the s3x. She went on the internet looking for MM. She was a MW herself, then when she thought she had the WS in her clutches she enacted the D and her H was too happy to oblige. Then the WS chickened out.

That is when I got a phone call accusing the WS (who had moved home) of committing 'emotional adultery' against the OW. Can you believe that?!?!?! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I told the OW to go get am emotional divorce.

The other thing I did was push the OW and WS together. Hey they were sleeping together anyway, I couldn't stop that so why not let the OW meet more of his ENs? I counted on the fact that the OW is basically a selfish person and there would be something, though I did not know exactly regarding the WS' EN that the OW and WS would disagree on. So I basically stopped meeting his needs, gave him his bills, put the pressure on him to pay his way even if it meant borrowing money from the OW.

Did the babble about him giving us what we are worth since he had just said his family was priceless (during one of his sane moments), then started at asking for 1 million and worked my way down to 10k. Just as I suspected, the OW was too selfish to dish out all that cash she 'said' she had. So it finally came out that all her big money talk was baiscally smoke. In the end, the WS spent more $$ on the A than the OW did. He kept making excuses for her but the figures don't lie. OW was even trying to negogiate a amount and wanted to write a check for about 4k. I said NOPE give me cash now. No can do. She didn't have it. Her D settlement hadn't been recieved yet and I knew it. Anyway, the $$ I had asked for was for covering monies owed so both knew that I had the right to ask for more in the very near future. Oh yea, I made their financial dream topple and I don't regret it. All their promises and figures faded fast.

I am not saying to do these things, just to let you know what I did. Hope it stirs your grey cells a bit. U'd be surprised what a BS can think up to do when we put our minds to it.

take care,
L.

Thanks, Orchid.

I have a hard time separating myself emotionally from this man... very hard time. I cannot believe he's "miraculously" changed into this hardened, irresponsible, nasty person he wants me to believe he is. I think that exterior is there to protect himself from the guilt and the fact he too has to face up to some cold hard reality... like he will lose many things that were precious to him if he continues his destructive behavior.

Thing of it is, he will twist anything I say into something against me in order to support his views. Anything. It's so upsetting, and I take it very personally. And if I ask him something specific, he will always reply with "I'll see." Will never give an outright yes or no, but I know ahead of time that it is a no. He's a huge conflict avoider right now, and he knows this. His gal pal doesn't force him to face reality.

He thinks that anything he does, I will view positively. Which is true. If he comes by say to fix something, I'll thank him. And then we get into an argument because then he thinks I'll welcome him back with open arms. No. I want to see him work for it. And I tell him that. And then he tells me that he's not seeing anything here to come home for. It's circular, vicious, and that A is designed as a protection for HIM to not face up to reality.

I do not deny I had a hand in the state of this marriage. But, am attempting to work on myself, and figure myself out. He does not see this. Anyting I do for myself is wrong... I should put money I spend on cell phone calls to my sister (who has been through this) as money I should spend somewhere like the house or the kids. Heck... I don't spend half the money he does. Big deal... I have a large cell phone bill. But, I pay for it, NOT him. And I pay for HIS too.

I've stopped sending him statements about where his money goes. I refuse. I'm making ends meet barely, and that's all he needs to know. He needs to know the kids are fed, cared for, and still have a place to sleep. He doesn't need to know the details if he's no longer interested in my view.

The OW he's involved in so blatant, her family knows, including her teenage daughter (according to H). They believe this is a perfectly acceptable way of life. She probably remains married because of custody disputes with her very small children and of financial issues himself although he tells me I'm worried about losing my "perfect little suburban life." I have to die laughing when I hear that... what in the heck is SHE protecting by not divorcing?

It's twisted, it's warped, and I'm still sitting here scratching my head trying to figure it all out.

Have you read Surviving an Affair? It is really good. One of the things I picked up on is that they WS most always blames the BS for the A. They also twist things to justify continueing the A. I don't have much time here, but if you have not read it, you might consider it. I know $$ are tight, see if your local library has a copy you could check out.

Sue,

Thanks for the book suggestion. I will read that as soon as I've finished Divorce Busting and Divorce Remedies.

My patience is just worn thin with this situation. My H did a 180 on me, and many things he's said has me believing he's twisted so many things in order to support/justify what he's doing as well as to shut out any chance of repairing this marriage.

I'm slooowwwlleee learning here, but every time I see the guy (can't do a Plan B on him quite yet... a few things we need to do together and emotionally not sure I can do that yet), I always get into R talk with him. It's so hard and I know it pisses him off and then I get upset, and a vicious cycle begins. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

BK-
Hello. I can't tell you how similar your WH and my WH are acting and talking-really (no answer, turning everything around, mixed messages, and I've done a horrible plan A).
I'm really hoping that you get some more posts from old timers.
Thinking of you and wishing you a Happy 4th.
-CS

CS,

Thank you for the kind words. Last night was pure hell... and I am too tired to even put the entire story down. The short version is H sent me email that indicated to me he was severely down, told me to say good bye to girls. I called police hoping he was not suicidal. He wasn't, but he claimed A is now over.

We sat in his place talking for hours, until something like 3. I snatched a couple hours sleep on his couch and came home. I'm wasted.

I will post more about this later. But, I do hope some old timers chime in here. This MLC of his is getting to me <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Hi- This is month 9- my h is in mlc as well... and other stuff too <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ! But I relate well to the suicidal stuff when the A ended... be careful... he will be needy and etc. for a while... this is called withdrawl... Who broke it off?

Anyway.... good time to do good plan a.... read abvout it as much as you can... do get the book Surviving an affair and also look into love busters... also consider doing the emotional needs questionnaire and especially (do this one first) the love busters questionnaire... on this site. It will help... if your h will do it too! Great! If not, then.... do one from his perspective.. this will help you know what to start doing to repair your marriage. I am very sorry you are in this situation.

Me, only married 10 yrs... but this is awful... really awful - take care of you during this time... pampering, meeting your own needs, etc. It gets a bit easier... I still cry... I am still sad at times... I want my family together..

You can survive, and you can do the best you can do to save your marriage.. but no matter what you can't control him!

Hugs, HONEY

Honey, thanks for the reply. Had a few hours' sleep, not restful but at least got to rest.

Here's the story:

OW is NOT married as I suspected. It's a common law marriage, they'd been living together for a number of years. My H did not specify, perhaps he does not know. However, according to my H, the OW's SO is a "Disney dad" and he "controls" her with money, kids, and house. Apparently, it's a dead R. So, she goes to H's house at night while raising kids during day. Apparently, he's got a bimbo or two himself. Like I said, it's a weird situation.

H and I were at our D's college orientation the past few days. During this time, his apartment was "broken into." Now, I put that term in quotes because he leaves the back door unlocked for her. When gone, either the OW or her SO had hacked his email. I couldn't get that part straight. He did not specify to me what he did or said when that happened. However, he did tell me he got an email from her that said "closure." He explained that to me to mean it was over.

H called himself and the OW as emotional cripples, and that's why he loves her. (Tell me does this make sense? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ) But, it seems this affair is over less than 24 hours, although my H says he's not going to pursue her. Says she's stubborn. He was in a world of hurt when we talked. He quoted the Antonio Banderas movie about the difference between love and lust--that there was none. (Ok... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> )

OW is simply a piece of work, it seems like. She and my H seemed to have hooked up at a critical time in his life. But, she has two small girls by her current SO (I think both are preschool age) and a teenage daughter from a former R. From what my H says, this teenager has problems. He did not specify which. But, he was willing to take them in. (Ok... 800 sq ft apt, one bedroom <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> )

Now, late last night he sent me an email in which he asked me to tell the girls goodbye, that he'd miss them forever. I panicked for a few, called him, left message, called police. Headed out to his place, talked to police, talked to him.

He now says it's over between us. I listened as much as could until I nearly dropped asleep. Got there around 10, stopped talking somewhere between 3 and 4 a.m. I'm presuming he dropped me that note because I told him under NO circumstances that his OW was to have contact with our kids, and told him what I thought of their arrangement (not exactly a good moral example). He's so confused! <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> Also, I think because I told him in no unspecific terms, "her or me" that he needs to make a statement that this was HIS choice.

Now, I'm at least feeling OK that he's fine physically. I called MIL and talked to her, let her know her son's current state. He's dopey as hell, he was drinking somewhat last night (I did have a few beers with him myself to steel my nerves). He said he made him "feel alive, that she wanted to take risks," that she is bisexual, and they had planned some sort of threesolme via internet, but somehow that fell through and somehow I'm not quite of that, it also seems that that incident was related to the break-in, although he was somewhat wandering and did not specify. I suspect he wanted to ignore those details.

My H's car was here last night, our D was using it. (We drove my car to the college orientation, and I dropped him off at his apt when we were done.) So, I brought him to the house and delivered him to his car. He cried most of the way here, didn't come in, reinforced there was no marriage ("no us") when I asked him to just "breathe, grieve, but make no major life decisions right now."

I'm not sure where to go from here right now. I am worried about his mental/emotional state. I called him earlier this am just to make sure he was ok, and dropped a quick note just to say the girls were always here for him. (Maybe that was a mistake? Don't know...)

My MIL will call him later as well.

When I was at his apt, I noticed a few things. He discussed going to NC to visit another friend (a female... hmmm.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ) and that he had an appointment with a head hunter. There was also a do it yourself divorce kit (but I think that had been there before... I remember seeing itlast time I was there). I'm wondering whether he's looking to find another job out of state. Now, this female friend he's seeing I don't know much about, except she's in her mid 20s!!

This guy is going insane!!

Someone chime in here... what should I do next?!?

"What to do?"

Gah, that's quite a situation going on there!

In fact, it's pretty tough to do much other than work on yourself through Plan A right now... These A's - you can't try to stop them - they have to "burn themselves out", really. Sad but true. Any efforts to separate WS and OP simply work to bring them together more.

Reality is the big boss, and it always has a negative effect on A's. So does time... A large part of it is physiological, and those brain chemicals take a while to level off... Again, reality is always good.

You might want to check out CarolKH's story http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=014880

I think women can pull that kind of stuff off a bit easier than men <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Oh boy... those are some serious physiological signs there. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

I'm back online just to keep sane here. In the past few hours, I call MIL, inform her of the situation--I am worried about H. H and SIL call me. (I'm pretty close to H's family.) Some of what happen was way way beyond my control.

Apparently, MIL told SIL the situation. Ok, I'm okay with that. In the background, I had been planning on taking our girls to visit MIL and SIL this weekend. So, on pretense of that excuse, SIL called H and asked him to come up with the girls this weekend, that they were taking boat out (live near lake). H calls me and complains that I told someone stuff that was between he and I. Sweetly, I reminded him of the trip the girls and I had planned for Sat. He was on his cell, in his car (I could hear the key in ignition warning bell thingy.) He backed off, but reminded me twice not to talk to anyone about what we discussed.

While I won't tell him this, I'm a nervous wreck, HIS PARENTS are concerned about him, for god's sake!! So, they WANT to be kept up to date. Sorry... but even though I won't tell him this, I AM NOT GOING THROUGH THIS ALONE! I realize it is HIS problem, but it does AFFECT me and our girls <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

So, I got H to promise before he hung up to at least call me again tonight or email so that I know he's ok physically. He's highly convinced life won't go on at this point. Arghghgh.

H is very very despondent, less than 24 hours after fact. My goodness... is this really a type of addiction?! Over a woman he's known less than 2 years?! But, not a withdrawal over his family and marriage?! What is this??? I'm trying to be as understanding as possible here. But, I really think he needs space and a therapist here. If I suggest therapist, I become "mom" again, though. So I'm backing off. And, I'm trying to keep the pretense of his parents/siblings not knowing, nor do our kids know anything. Actually, that's part true. I did not divulge all details to them, of course. I did give basic FACT: he seemed to think the A was over, the apt break in, how he seemed to be doing in my eyes, and some basic facts that they asked about the OW. Nothing more.

I'm such a wreck here...

<small>[ July 04, 2002, 12:41 PM: Message edited by: bluekeys ]</small>

BK-
I'm wondering how things are going for you?
-CS

I'm ok I think... I've been away for a couple of days getting some sun & fun. Nice to at least have gotten a bit of a tan <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> and to have gotten away from some of the day to day grind around here.

H is ok physically, mentally/emotionally I'm not sure right now. No really new developments other than a few emotional upheavals here and there.

<small>[ July 07, 2002, 07:06 PM: Message edited by: bluekeys ]</small>