Nearly a year after D-Day my internal rollercoaster heads down.

After all this time fighting to breathe and keep myself and my M alive I have reached rock bottom. I have no more strength back, and so it is time to lean on my WH- xWH to go on.

I need a break from the struggle, I remember the days in which I was single and actually happy, days I could go anywhere I wanted, whenever I wanted, be myself without being scared, be free.

I can be myself again now, not as much freedom, but I am willing to sacrify it for my M.

I have been through hell too many times, and this last one it feels as if the hole my WH pushed me in isn't letting me go.

I keep getting sucked down and he tries to pull me out, he really does, and I cry because I can't help myself anymore.

I need you all to remind me why am I trying to fight, what am I trying to get. I know it is there somewhere, but today I am hurting too much to remember.

I am having trouble concentrating, old exbf's keep popping back and forth and they are no help reminding me how much they love-loved me and how they will all be there if I need them, you see, I didn't marry the first guy who declared undying love for me, I can say I have-had plenty of wonderful men to choose from, and now I am shooting all them off, blocking messegers, e-mail addresses. Because it is not nice of them to come prey on me when I am having a hard time keeping myself up.

Could somebody please tell me I am doing a good job? <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> I need it, and I need a hug, and I need my friend to tell me I am doing good, because I feel I am not.

<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I also just got another award of academic excellence in the mail, just thought I'd share that since the only thing that is straight on my life is my career, don't know why.

Alostwife,

Wow, you sure do have a lot on your plate with school and a marriage not to mention the A being thrown in the mix. I can understand how you have a hard time just relaxing and letting go.
It sounds as if your H is making an effort to turn things around. You sound as if you feel a little safer. Maybe it's time for the two of you to take a little breather from the world and go someplace ALONE. What about a nice quiet mountain vacation or beach vacation(even just for a weekend)? You can find some places cheap(I know, I was a married student with a child once). Take the time to relax and enjoy eachother without any outside interference.
You are doing a good jog at blocking out contact with ex-bfs. Contact with them, when you are so vulnerable, is definitley not a good idea.
If you think of the fact that they know you are married and trying to save your marriage because it is important to you and they still attempt to make contact; It's just downright DISRESPECTFUL. They are not such a prize after all are they?
Have you considered antideps to help you over this hump? In lifting some of this depression you would have more energy for marriage building.
I hope I haven't rambled too long.

Hello Alostwife,

This seems like a good opportunity to tell you what I have been intending to say for some time. I am so impressed with you! I have read many of your posts to others, and you never fail to have a profound understanding of what people are feeling. Your replies contain so much wisdom. I always look forward to what you have to say.

I am really sorry that you are at such a low point. To answer your question, yes, your efforts are worthwhile. You are trying to remain faithful to your marriage until all efforts to rebuild it prove unsuccessful and it is clear to you that there is no hope. You haven't reached that point yet. It is not time for you to give up.

As you work through this low point, you will regroup and feel stronger and ready to hold on at least a bit longer. This is part of the rollercoaster ride. It's inevitable. Don't lose hope yet. Know you are doing the right thing.

Have you read what Dr. Harley wrote in the MB newsletter that came out yesterday? He said that it was hopelessness that causes divorce, not abuse, infidelity, etc. Do you think you can retain some degree of hope?

You and I have not met directly. It is my son who is BS. After a complicated year and a half, he has finally accepted that his cause IS hopeless (in the MB/Harley sense), and he is on the verge of moving toward D. Like you he has tried and hoped. A few days ago he just KNEW it was time. Finally, it is appropriate for him to make the decision to stop fighting the inevitable.

Until you wake up one day and KNOW that your situation is hopeless, don't give up, because it is not time for you yet.

After your helping so many others here, it's good to be able to give you a cyber hug and try to support you during your down time.

{{{Alostwife}}}

BTW, will you be in school during the summer sessions? You do a lot, being an honor student, working, AND working with a troubled M. You are outstanding.

Take care,
Estes

Cleopatra and Estes,

Thanks so very much for your so kind words.
Today is not being an easy one...

I am out of will to be the relationship counsellor of my H, I have held his hands through the dark passages he has had to go through, but he hasn't fought for me, or broken my fall not once since we have been married.

I am drained with the effort of pulling both of our emotional weights along with our sanity.

I need a rest, i need to pay attention to myself, to regain conciousness, to become whole, I can't be married if I am fragmented, I can't be a good wife if I am tired.

I need to let him take charge, I am just scared, scared of the fall, scared of his weakness, I know I have to give him a chance, he is asking for it, but... he... he is... a klutz!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />

I also have self-worth problems, he made me feel so useless, so low, as if everybody was way over my head, everybody deserved to be protected, loved and set on a pedestal, I had mine, but it was about this () big. Nobody was lower on his priorities than me, and I resent it.

I feel I am a bad wife because I am worth so little on his eyes. I feel terrible, and I feel I keep failing even when everything else I do turns out great, but I... I just want... I want to be happy... I want to be loved... I just want what I have been working so hard for... I want my M to work smoothly for once!

<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

He is working really hard, but I am so restless... I try to relax and go on vacation, but he is what makes me restless, he is my eternal homework sometimes. Sometimes it is a bliss, and others it is a chore.

I have no idea what "being happily married" is suppossed to mean anymore.

I am soooo confused!!!

Alostwife:

I guess I have to remind myself that we all have our downs at times - even the people like you on this forum that I admire the most.

Remember that M is about sharing and nuturing your independence with each other, not stifling it. You said you've sacrificed your freedom for your M. You shouldn't have to. That's not to say unblock the emails from your xbfs - you've done the right thing there.

The problem isn't just that your H is a "klutz". I'm a man (last time I checked, that was my determination, at least), and I would say that my klutziness, very similar to what you describe about your H, is what contributed to our M decline 12 years ago, when my W's A started. My W has a friend who's H is behaving almost exactly the same way. You could hit the guy with a 4x4, and he'd not wake up (I know, I've tried many times). If his W has an A... ...well, I know it wouldn't be his fault, but the condition of his M is partly his responsibility.

I know you said your H is trying, but is he in Cing? Being a klutz myself, I sure know I need good coaching to not futz everything up. Your H may be meaning well, but if he isn't hitting the mark you need him to hit, he might need help.

Take care,

<small>[ July 01, 2002, 06:21 PM: Message edited by: 2long ]</small>

Thanks 2long, your words are very kind, and between the three of you have managed to give me a little ego boost which I really need.

My beloved husband has always been very much... incompetent in whatever comes into relationships. He is not good with boundaries, he is not good processing that a relationship is a team effort, that not all responsability, strength, and affection has to fall into one of the two persons in one, because he was always the one abused, the one neglected the one having to do whatever he was told.

When I came along and picked my share of weight he read that as me saying "Alright, Ill get my baggage, throw your baggage on my back along with the furniture, and you can go on ahead and get comfy on top of it all, enjoy the ride!"

When I finally shook him off he was very confused, and still is comming to understand that he doesn't have to go to extremes, that it is not all you or all me, that it is a fair share. For me it comes naturally, all the relationships appart from the first one I have been in were with wonderful men, and I always got treated like a lady, sometimes it got to be irritating since they'd actually nearly throw rose petals on the floor I was about to step in so I wouldn't soil my shoe.

I am not a princess, I hate being called that, (one of the reasons because I broke up with one of my exbf's actually, lol), I work very very hard, I have survived through more difficult situations, the problem is, this time he has attacked the part of me I cannot really fix on my own and as soon as I'd like, my heart.

He has made me ache more than in the years of abuse as a child, in the months of surviving natural disasters, in the years of isolation from my family, he has hurt me more than anybody, and trusting him with my life is a bit... difficult.

I know I have to trust him completely again sometime, (not as blindly as before though), I need to let him show me what he can do.

I look into his eyes and there is sweet loving determination. When he speaks he talks about how bad he feels, how he wants to make things work better than before, how he hates the man he was, how he never even wants to act like he used to so I am not reminded of the bad times.

I am scared because...

I don't want him to be someone he is not to please me, he already did that once and see where it has got us.
I don't want him to improve himself ONLY for me, I want him to do it for himself too, I want him to be able to wake up one day and say "Gosh I am so glad I am who I am now".

I want overall things for him to be happy, I want to see him smile and feel happy that he is smiling, I want to be able to smile back, not to feel that if I am feeling that happy then something awfully bad is going to happen.

See my signature line? Every year, like a clock, he makes me go through a new D-Day with more lies he has kept since the A. Every year I cry and I try and try to trust I try to love more than I hurt, and I am scared.

I wish September didn't exist, I wish I could skip it, I wish it wasn't comming because I am affraid my world will collapse a 4th time and I am far too weak for this, I am far too weak...

I have been his counsellor for the last year, we have gone through every detail of his traumatized life, and we have gone through mine, using the radical honesty as our guide. We have cried, we have become closer, closer than ever before, even though all I said he already knew, this time around he actually cared.

He feels bad because he knows my life wasn't easy to start with, but I never gave up, I never let anybody use me, I was never needy or clingy, I was never abusive or vindictive, and if I was, I actually turned it around into just... humor, and lived on.

He says he is sad because is as if he had an angel to protect and care for him, and all he did was rip out her wings, soil it's spirit, and then walk away into lalaland humming a cheery song.
He says many crazy things, that I cannot understand... comming out of the mouth of somebody that would say such foul things like... he never wanted to marry me, that I pressured him into being with me (excuse me sir, I think HE was the one persuing and I got the e-mails to prove it). How it all was my fault, etc etc.

It is confusing and I try to believe, and I am strong, but I can't, I refuse to carry him anymore, he isn't confused anymore, he isn't lost anymore, he knows where he is standing, what is it that needs to be healed, it is his turn to figure things out, because I myself have spent sooo long figuring his every need, his every ache in order to fulfill it, in order to heal him, that I am completely out of touch with myself.

I know that the fact that I was not valuable to him and that he never defended me are the problems. I know that the feeling that I am not really married to him is a problem too.

I don't feel I am his wife, because he made a mockery out of our wedding day, he made fun of it in one of his fits, he claimed I made him marry me, etc etc. That marriage contract has no effect anymore on my heart, because he is not the man I though I was marrying, he is definetly not the man I loved, because he made it all up.

It is those 3 things that make me sad and upset, and I can't think of anything to solve it.

He knows about them because I tell him, he knows I want him to propose and get married again, this time the right way. He knows I need to feel that he does appreciate me, he knows that I need to know he won't let me fall again the moment things get rough.

I need all this things, and I am tired of repeating it, I am tired of telling him I don't know exactly what he can do, am I crazy???????

If I am please somebody tell me and tell me what to tell him so we can get out of this and move on for my sanity's health.

<small>[ July 01, 2002, 11:00 PM: Message edited by: Alostwife ]</small>

Alostwife:

Wow. A lot of what you describe is how my W believes she has behaved over the past 12 years. She says she tried all those years to get me to "help her" with her problems, that her family always wants her to do things for them, never giving anything in return (we do, possibly not as much as we should, but WSs have selective memory).

She took on too much responsibility for "fixing" other people's problems (mine included) and neglected her own needs. Unfortunately, she became attracted to a coworker. When I didn't respond to her "cries for help" to her satisfaction, she went to a C at school, got bad advice (and the C gave up after 3 visits), and decided to have an A rather than get a DV. So, while the A was going on, and even between the first and second A, my W became more and more selfish and spiteful, to the point that, although I knew things weren't right, I didn't know about the As and so was unable be of much help to her.

I'm not saying that you're headed in this direction, but it sounds like you are burning yourself out by taking on all this responsibility. Your H may be enjoying this support from you, but by letting you shoulder the load, he's shirking his responsibility to himself and to you. He owes you complete honesty. He can't get trust from you by metering out details about his A once a year! That's almost worse than not telling you at all about it. He certainly can't "affair-proof" your M by not addressing his weaknesses for having an A. It will only happen again.

Bottom line, he should get Cing for himself. If he doesn't, he stands a good chance of losing you.

I hope he makes the right choices. It's not enough to just tell you, or even show you that he loves you. He needs to take responsibility and lighten your load!

2long,

Yes I know I am burning the candle on both ends, I know it is sapping all my will and strength, I know it and that is why I am scared too.

I have stopped helping people over the call of duty, and I only do it in select situations when I KNOW my help will do some good, and not just fall on deaf ears or be stomped over.

People used to take advantage of my strength, of my willingness to help and then walk away.

I learnt all this a long time ago, but when I married I didn't, for one second, think that I'd have to keep security checks for my WH.
He made me think he knew how to handle his life on his own, so he was ready for a life with me, WRONG.

I am tired of taking his load, his responsability and to pre-chew every bite of reality for him. I am tired of opening his eyes at every turn so he doesn't get us crashing down. I am just plain fed up, as I have said before, I was marrying a man, not a boy, and if I wanted a boy I could have married somebody my same age.

Now the thing is, he is more than willing to try, he is eager and just ready! But he just doesn't know what to do.

He is standing there jumping up and down full of energy and will to do whatever it takes... but he aint moving because he doesn't know where to head.

He cannot propose the right way right now because he wants a traditional proposal, which is fine by me, because I can tell you I have developed a terrible fear to do things in a casual way due to the disaster it all has been. He wants to buy a ring and take me somewhere very special to do what he has to do, so that is on hold by now untill he saves up enough.

We are moving in a couple of weeks to a new apt, far away from trigger'r'us, the apartment where he lived with the xow and the A took place. So that should help on me relaxing.

There are no opportunities for him to defend me, because I just have no enemies, and I defend myself pretty well since he has demostrated a complete lack of interest on the matter. We also have no clue what is of xOW and the part of his family that did me wrong has been obliterated from our life because we didn't even talk to them that much on the first place. He had thousands of chances to stick up for me, he lost them all and now I have no idea what he can do.

September is approaching and is still left to see if he'll pop new info again. He seems sincere, but he did so the other 3 years. I believe him, but still there is an itch and i don't know how to scratch it. He is very aware of this fear, so he may not say anything in September and wait untill October, hehe... Oh well.

I want to let him manage this issues on his own, but it feels as if I do, then he won't move, he won't even wink, and I'll be there waiting and waiting and waiting... like I waited and waited for him to tell the xOW that she should not contact him anymore. To which he just sat around and waited untill she got tired of phoning. Weee!

I don't think I am in danger of starting a EA, but just in case I blocked any old love interests, and I am left with my married friends, school mates, who I cannot avoid, neither I need to because I am not interested in any of them lol, and any other male that happens to know me.

My problem with men is that... for some reason, they seem to lean into liking me a bit too much, maybe the water or something, because otherwise I don't get it. So either way I am not one that falls into being seduced unless I decide to fall into it teehee!

Alright now I better shut up this is getting too long.

hugs <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ July 02, 2002, 01:32 PM: Message edited by: Alostwife ]</small>

Hi Alostwife,

I went back to read your first posts to know more about what brought you to MB. I did not read all 200+, however. Did you chose to take the antidepressants?

Your comments indicate that you and your H both love each other a lot. That speaks well for the chance of your building a satisfying M.

Help me with the three things you said you need from your H. I think I can identify some things. What are the most important to you?
1. When he married you, it was a lie because you did not know about the relative and his x GF.
2. You want to be relieved of the responsibility of carrying the success of the whole relationship by yourself.
3. You want him to value and appreciate you.
4. You want him to work on self-improvement for his own good as well as yours.
5. You need to be able to trust him to be supportive of you and your M.

I am a teacher. When we teach decision-making we sometimes use a technique referred to as "Looks like/Sounds like." Let's use #3 as an example. Take pen and paper and make a list. To you, what would appreciation from your H look like? IOW, what do you visualize him doing that shows appreciation? Then think, what would appreciation from him sound like? What words from your H would indicate appreciation to you?
Now, once you have your list, review it to see that it truly reflects what you haave in your mind. Finally, go over the list with your H and see if he understands where you are coming from and can accept your requirements. This technique helps make the communication crystal clear what appreciation looks like and sounds like to you. It makes it easier for your H to be successful in meeting your needs. Does this make sense?

Now try #2. What would it look like/sound like if your H were helping you take responsibility for your R? And #5. What does trustworthy behavior look like/sound like?

What you write indicates that there has been trauma in both of your pasts that have shaken your confidence. What about IC? Maybe I missed that in your past posts. Does your school offer counseling as part of it's health services?

Ideally, you will come to realize that you AND your H are valuable in and of yourselves. One does not need to save the other. As you both become stronger individuals, you can build a M in which the two of you walk side-by-side as a doubly strong unit, not a struggling one in which one of you is burdened by carrying the other.

I am concerned for your seeming lack of confidence of your worth as an individual. Look at what you have achieved. You have had the strength to leave the security of your homeland. You are obviously highly intelligent and capable in the academic world. You have had successful relationships with good men in the past. You have had the strength of character to block emails from Xs. You have the wisdom to see the areas of your relationship that need work. You are blessed with talent, insight, and inner strength. You are unique, special, and have a lot to offer anyone with whom you have a relationship.

Tell me, why do you feel inadequate? WE can see that you definitiely are not. Do you feel inadequate when you look at your reflection from your R with your H? Do you carry feelings of inadequacy from your childhood? Do you feel adequate at school and at work, but inadequate in interpersonal relationships?

I'm not trying to nosy, so answer only if you feel comfortable. I want so much for you to accept how special you are. You do not have to have approval from anybody -not parents, H, siblings- to love and be proud of yourself. That's what is want for you.

Take care,
Estes

<small>[ July 02, 2002, 01:54 PM: Message edited by: Estes49 ]</small>

Estes,

Your questions didn't come through as intrusive or noisy, I really... greatly appreciate the time that takes to read most of my rambling, thus I am long winded <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> , but appart from being an artist I used to be a poet and a writer, and even though my writting on English is not as good as it used to be on Spanish it is just as lengthy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> (if the word lengthy even exists hehe)

Comming to think about my self worth problems they have come and gone through my life. My parents used to tell me they were disappointed when I behaved bad and just that word would be more than enough to bring me to tears and be on my best behaviour forever, or untill I found something new to get in trouble with.

As I grew up I learnt to get along and accept they were my parents and I had no scaping to it so I should better like the experience of being a minor dependant than resisting it. I so wanted for them to be proud of me, but nothing I ever achieved was good enough, I was the first born, the one whose percentiles went through the roof, the "genious" of between me and my little brother, so they were very exigent and never expressed their pride on any of the awards I managed. So in retaliation I let my marks go down, since I chose to live more relaxed and enjoy my chilhood instead of being always under pressure of keeping up my scores and trying to make my parents happy when that was impossible.

I lived a relaxed existence once I managed my balance and I acknowledge what I was good at by nature and I enjoyed it. I was more or less carefree, had wonderful friends, and lived goooood, because I liked how I looked, who I was and what I had.

When my H came along I was in a nice spot, getting out of my teens, starting a new career, and feeling good about things. I no longer wanted any validation, I validated myself, and my worth was determined only by me.

But... disaster stroke. I fell in love with my H, madly, deeply, head over heels. I believed on his every word, I wanted to believe on him so badly!

When he decided to exchange me for someone I KNOW was less than I was... it was a complete shock. My logic didn't apply, mine his, nobody's, it was just complete nonsense. I didn't get it, I fell into depression.

If he was willing to exchange me then something was wrong with me, something I lacked, something I didn't have , something I wasn't good enough in, all the insecurity, all the fear I had already forgotten re-surfaced, and he knew it, he knew it and actually fed it, he made me feel unwanted, ugly, uninteresting. I tried to reassure myself, but it is difficult when the one you love just does the opposite day after day.

It finally got to me, and even though I know it was not him that it was me, my heart still refuses to process this information and therefore I hurt.

And so, I need him to make something up to fix it because his words were what broke my self steem, his words may be able to heal it, and so I will compile that list and post it later see how it sounds.

Now about the questions:

1. When he married you, it was a lie because you did not know about the relative and his x GF.
When he married me I married somebody he was not, he made me believe he was a man with high morals and standars and he was not. He made me believe he was somebody completely different to who he really was. Add the lies about the relative and xGF and it really is something. I would have never married him in the state he really was in.

2. You want to be relieved of the responsibility of carrying the success of the whole relationship by yourself.
I do want to be relieved, not of it all, just of his share of the resposibility.

3. You want him to value and appreciate you.
4. You want him to work on self-improvement for his own good as well as yours.
5. You need to be able to trust him to be supportive of you and your M.

Another thing, Alostwife, I would be happy to discuss with you my conviction that God cares about you personally. It makes no difference that you have not had a relationship with Him in the past. He's with you right now, waiting for you to welcome Him into a relationship with you.

I guess this sounds preachy which I do not intend to be. Knowing that God wants good things for me and that when I hurt, He hurts, surely does help me - every day.

Estes

Estes,

Your questions didn't come through as intrusive or noisy, I really... greatly appreciate the time that takes to read most of my rambling, thus I am long winded <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> , but appart from being an artist I used to be a poet and a writer, and even though my writting on English is not as good as it used to be on Spanish it is just as lengthy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> (if the word lengthy even exists hehe)

Comming to think about my self worth problems they have come and gone through my life. My parents used to tell me they were disappointed when I behaved bad and just that word would be more than enough to bring me to tears and be on my best behaviour forever, or untill I found something new to get in trouble with.

As I grew up I learnt to get along and accept they were my parents and I had no scaping to it so I should better like the experience of being a minor dependant than resisting it. I so wanted for them to be proud of me, but nothing I ever achieved was good enough, I was the first born, the one whose percentiles went through the roof, the "genious" of between me and my little brother, so they were very exigent and never expressed their pride on any of the awards I managed. So in retaliation I let my marks go down, since I chose to live more relaxed and enjoy my chilhood instead of being always under pressure of keeping up my scores and trying to make my parents happy when that was impossible.

I lived a relaxed existence once I managed my balance and I acknowledge what I was good at by nature and I enjoyed it. I was more or less carefree, had wonderful friends, and lived goooood, because I liked how I looked, who I was and what I had.

When my H came along I was in a nice spot, getting out of my teens, starting a new career, and feeling good about things. I no longer wanted any validation, I validated myself, and my worth was determined only by me.

But... disaster stroke. I fell in love with my H, madly, deeply, head over heels. I believed on his every word, I wanted to believe on him so badly!

When he decided to exchange me for someone I KNOW was less than I was... it was a complete shock. My logic didn't apply, mine his, nobody's, it was just complete nonsense. I didn't get it, I fell into depression.

If he was willing to exchange me then something was wrong with me, something I lacked, something I didn't have , something I wasn't good enough in, all the insecurity, all the fear I had already forgotten re-surfaced, and he knew it, he knew it and actually fed it, he made me feel unwanted, ugly, uninteresting. I tried to reassure myself, but it is difficult when the one you love just does the opposite day after day.

It finally got to me, and even though I know it was not him that it was me, my heart still refuses to process this information and therefore I hurt.

And so, I need him to make something up to fix it because his words were what broke my self steem, his words may be able to heal it, and so I will compile that list and post it later see how it sounds.

Now about the questions:

1. When he married you, it was a lie because you did not know about the relative and his x GF.
When he married me I married somebody he was not, he made me believe he was a man with high morals and standars and he was not. He made me believe he was somebody completely different to who he really was. Add the lies about the relative and xGF and it really is something. I would have never married him in the state he really was in.

2. You want to be relieved of the responsibility of carrying the success of the whole relationship by yourself.
I do want to be relieved, not of it all, just of his share of the resposibility.

3. You want him to value and appreciate you.
Definetly. I NEED it.

4. You want him to work on self-improvement for his own good as well as yours.
Yes, if not then there is always a possibility of it going down because he can always claim he wasnt who he really was-wanted to be.

5. You need to be able to trust him to be supportive of you and your M.
Definetly that is a must.

Ok now I am off to craft that list.

Don't worry you don't sound preachy to me.
Even though I am not much of a believer I take it as a honor when people mention me on their prayers.
On my own way I always give them a place on my thoughts and I worry about them.

Maybe some day God and I will get along, untill then, I think that if he does really exist, he knows I am doing good on my own way, so it is ok <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Ok so lets see if I can understand the concept for the system you just mentioned.

Taking #3:

To you, what would appreciation from your H look like? IOW, what do you visualize him doing that shows appreciation?

This is a tough one, lets see...
He says he appreciates me, I guess that helps.
The problem is that his actions haven't really matched it, and if they have the offenses have always been far more meaningful, in more important grounds that what he has done to prove otherwise.

I cannot think of anything he could do to make me feel appreciated or something big enough for him to make up for the humiliation he has put me through, still thinking though.

All I can think of is for him to let people know that he IS proud to be with me, that he does love me, and he is proud of me as a person. One of the problems we had before is that he'd be all lovey dovey with me and then turn around and make me feel like dirt in front of people, disrespecting me in public.

Then think, what would appreciation from him sound like? What words from your H would indicate appreciation to you?

"I am proud of my wife"
"I feel I am very fortunate to have her as my companion"
"I love my wife"
"I think my wife is beautiful"

He never says this things like these to people when i can actually hear it, and he used to treat me like I was invisible when we were together and in presence of other people. He would never take even the initiative of introducing me to people he knew and that would stop him on the street. I'd stand there smiling uneasily while the person eyed me and tried to figure out if I was with my H or I was just standing a bit too close.

My H knows this bothers me, and has been trying to fix it, the bad thing is that now it seems that not even one quarter of the people that used to bump on him do it anymore. Call it tough luck it is kinda funny in a twisted way I guess <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . Poor thing, when he tries to make up for things he doesn't get a chance.

Am I doing this right? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />

You are off to a good start!

See what you think about this.
1. When you are out together, your H stands by your side and makes sure you are introduced to everyone in the conversation.
2. Your H puts his arm around you or puts his hand on your elbow to indicate that you and he are a couple.
3. Your H directs comments and questions to you to get your reponse to show others that he considers your ideas important.
4. Your H very directly tells all family members whom you encounter that you are a special person in his life and that no one is EVER to speak ill of you in his or your presence.
5. What about a holiday letter to family and friends in which he includes some specific compliments of you.

Now we need to work on this a little bit.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I cannot think of anything he could do to make me feel appreciated or something big enough for him to make up for the humiliation he has put me through, still thinking though. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">1. He can apologize to you.
2. He can acknowledge that his comments were disrespectful and that you have every right to be offended.
3. He can compliment you, publicly and privately.
4. He can be open to you about his emotions indicating that he considers you trustworthy.
5. He can pay sincere attention when you speak.
6. He can ask your opinion about things, then take your advice.
7. He can thank you for things you do.
8. He can take an interest in your school achievements and hang out some with you and your school acquaintances.

I am concerned that you are at a point that you feel there is nothing he can do to make it up to you. Perhaps, if you believe he is sincere in wanting your M to survive, you have to say what's done is done. He can't undo it, but he's truly sorry. Then you have to forgive him and work on letting go of the anger and resentment. Letting go frees you, reduces your stress level, and even helps him become more important to you. You reach the point where you say, "Yes, he hurt me deeply, and I chose to forgive him anyway."

However, once you have worked all this through, if you are NOT convinced that he is remorseful, respects you, appreciates you, and will be honest with you from now on, you will have to make a choice. You can chose to stay in this kind of a relationship, or you can end it and build yourself another kind of life.

I hope that it is just that your H made some foolish mistakes and that he lacks the skills to be effective in correcting his mistakes. With counseling and with patience on your part, maybe he will mature and become a supportive partner.

Keep working on your assignment. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Estes

Oops, multiple posts....

<small>[ July 02, 2002, 06:45 PM: Message edited by: Estes49 ]</small>

Good grief! This new system is a pain. Sure is hard to post.

<small>[ July 02, 2002, 06:43 PM: Message edited by: Estes49 ]</small>

Estes,

He read the last post and he actually was very happy to have concrete instructions. It is funny how some men never read instructions for appliances, but cry out for instructions for women. They claim that it is fun to figure out the appliances, but they don't take the time to figure us out LOL.

He is very sincere and is working very hard, I just wish he could learn to do things, I know we are not born knowing, but with the amount of miles he's got on his score card he should know the basics already.

He says he is willing to go through counselling, but I am trying to see if he can work through this one last time, if he can't then he is off to it.

Thanks so very much <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />