I spoke to H today, he rang me. Told him I had been thinking a lot and that I'm struggling to keep going. I told him that this is really really hurting me and that as he knows its hurting me, it like he is doing it intentionally.

I told him I am running out of steam and that I need more committment to keep going. I told him that its up to him, I cannot control him. I said that once every now and then seeing him is not doing it for me and that my love is draining away.

I told him that I love him so much, that I've thought about life without him, that I know I will survive but I want to be with him.

I said that even though I know about A I still stand by him and love him, that I care and love him even though he still see her. I asked him if she knows that he is still seeing me, if he tells her that we are working on our marriage. He said he dosen't tell her anything about where he is going. I asked him to think about whether or not she would continue to see him if she knew. Would she stand by you as I have. I said that if for six months we could work on our M, if she loved you she would wait.I told him I knew this because I have even though I know about them. I said that we could really try and if it dosen't work we walk away.

I pointed out that she has cheated on someone to start the relationship with him, and does he know for sure that she won't do it to him. That he has known me for 12 years and asked if he trusted me: yes he does. How long has he known her - 7months (actually longer as far as I knew) and does he trust her - he couldn't answer that. I asked him if he loved her- he said that he is seeing what otehrs offer.

He said that for the last few years in the m he wasn't happy and now he is comparing and seeing what else is available. I said that I didn't know he was unhappy for that long and that I need a chance to make him happy. That even though he is still seeing her I am working on being better and changing the things that didn't work. The old life wasn't working for me that's how I have proved that I've changed, that how he can know that the changes are for real.

I said I knew that me telling him he would need to change scared him and he said yes it did.

I asked him if it would be easier if I was out of the picture for a while that it might may it easier for him. He says he does not want that. He wants to keep seeing me. He's a cakeman - this can't go on.

I asked if there was any love left because right now I don't know and that it hurts to be stringed along then dropped and picked up and dropped. He said yes there was or he wouldn't ring me.

He suddently went foggy and said that I was being revengefull that I was mean to OW when I first found out. I said, that it was a shock and I was hurt and that he is judging me on this and its not fair. I said that I can try to split you up that I know it will only push you together that you have to decide.

He said fine I'll make a decision this week if you like. I said I don't want to force a decision from him. I told him I was coming to a decision of my own.

He said he would see me Thursday night for dinner then come out to see me saturday. I said thank you that this will help, but I only want to see him if he truly wants to see me.

Here is how I feel: I can't do this. I love him but this is killing me. I wanted to say I don't want to see him for a while but I couldn't the words wouldn't form. they wouldn;t come out.

I want to call him back and say I can't see him anymore, but im really scared now. I said what I feel. I told him that I wish I could make him understand how much I love him and want to be with him.

Can someone give me feedback here. Have I done the wrong thing? I am going to give this a little longer but he is being a cakeman, its fairly obvious and then I will tell him i can't see him anymore.

****, maybe I was too pleady - I don't think I sounded needy but I know it was passionate. I know it got to him, he tried to go foggy but it got through.

help, this is coming to a head.

I also told him I was seeing real estate agents this weekend. This is how it all started because he asked me where I was going to live. I told him not to worry about it as it is my problem and not him. I said its nice you care but really don't worry about it - then all the above came out.

Feedback please please - have I LB'd; have I demanded. oh God, I hope I've done the right thing

<small>[ July 07, 2002, 08:47 PM: Message edited by: Seahorse ]</small>

SH;

Although I don't really have much feedback for you on this (there are others more insightful when it comes to these things), I did want to show my solidarity with you, as I have precisely today had a similar kind of "put things on the line" conversation with my W.

Sometimes we have to do these things, I guess, and sometimes they'll be good, others not, but it is all part of the difficult ptocess we are all going through.

Take care!

Dear Seahorse,

I only have time for 1 reply tonight so here goes......

U expressed your feelings. These are not new spur of the moment feelings, right? Then you were right to say them. A bit needy? Yes. Sounded that way, but don't worry, you will sound stronger. Especially when he sees you moving forward. That first step is always the hardest. Know that you may wobble or even take a spill but you will still be able to stand up dust yourself off and move forward with dignity.

Really really? U are not the needy one, he is. U don't have to settle for someone who is wondering if there is someone better out there. He should be wondering if he is being replaced.

Refocus and set your sights on your boundaries and goals. Then your words and actions will follow suit.

take care,
L.
ps: I don't think your LB or whatever is the end of the world. He is still a bit foggy. It might even do him some good.

Get some rest and get the best price for your place!

It seems like this conversation always occurs sooner or later. Really, everyone wants it sooner but it is best left for after a good plan A.( which you have done.) I think Orchid is right. Set your boundaries and goals and see if he comes along.

Quote " This is killing me."

Looks like time to move on to me. It has done you some good to have this talk. Now you must decide where you are going to go, and go there with or without him. If he comes, well, that's what you have worked for. I hope he comes. It sounds like you told him - "H, I am going on, I hope you want to come, if not, good bye."

As Orchid says, stand up and dust yourself off. You have done nothing wrong. It looks like he has come far enough to understand what you were saying. In other words, he has come far enough that the choice is a real choice. He knows what he is doing.

He may ask for more time. Just tell him gently you have given all you can give, and you don't have anything left for him if he can't give back 100%. Then leave. I don't think there is any reason to have the whole conversation all over again.

We still pray for you. You will still get help. Remember you are not alone in this.

SS

Thanks Spacecase, Orchid and SS. This conversation was coming, the time was right for me. I feel a little better after it. I am a little scared about my new life, but I'm also looking forward to it. I want my husband there with me, but not if it is at a cost to my sanity.

I will continue to believe that if its meant to be it will be. I will continue to pray and continue to learn from helping others here and my readings.

My marriage will not be over until he says it is or until I m ready, but for now, I will prepare to sell my home and start my new life and then plan B.

This has been a such a traumatic time for me, but now I've planned a path I feel a little better. I'm trying to go easy on myself. I am thinking that when I do go to plan B and the house is sold I will most likely live with dad. Mum's grave is not too far from his house - during the time I am with dad I will grieve properly for mum by visiting the grave.

This is my plan:

Survive, look after me, sell the house, move to dad's; grieve for mum, learn more about me and how I can become better at relationships, especially friendships. I'm cautiously looking forward to it.

Seahorse -- As always, you are an inspiration to me even when you are down I learn so much from your posts and the responses. Unfortunately after my pleasant surprise in mid-June of WH wanting to come home after reading the I desire letter, he has gone back to the I love you/not in love with you and you are my best friend/but I have no desire to have an intimate connection with you anymore. It hurts and it hurts so much.

We talked last night and it seems it was a conversation similar to the one you just had with WH. I too am approaching my six month time limit -- although if I saw further signs of truly coming out of the fog I would revise/extend that limit. I am almost out of steam.

You are so strong.

Hi buddy

Ive just read thru the other post and the replies to this one - I dont find much time anymore to come on board.

Gee, its getting tough.
Perhaps you need to give yourself some time to get used to the idea of plan B then move into it. He wants you and something else (not necesarily her either, just something else, something is missing or not connecting for him at the moment) but you shouldnt be dealing with that, he should. Perhaps Plan B isnt the right option yet, perhaps backing off and giving him some space without any demands will help him make some decisions and give you a bit of peace knowing that theres possibilities either way he chooses. As you never know whats around the corner - him or an exciting new possibility. I feel ok with myself that I would be able to find a new partner one day if God wanted to bless me in that way if H definately went out of the picture. Knowing this I feel ok about the future. I certainly dont want to go thru it all again with someone else, but its a possibility.

I guess you do need to stop fulfilling some of his needs as it is definately draining you up empty. Perhaps later on when youve overcome some of the grief of recent events you may be able to plan A again. This is sort of what i had to do. I just wasnt able to cope with it all, so I took a break, took care of myself, regrouped and started again. And if my H doesnt respond, it doesnt matter, I tried, I'm becoming a better person, I win either way. But I do hope he falls in love with me again one day.

The best you can do is attempt to make each meeting with him pleasant so that he has good memories of you, but without leaving yourself dry from giving giving giving. What has he done to fill your tank lately?

Thinking of you,

Dancer

Spoke to him again today. Similar conversation as before except that I told him that I cannot see him anymore while he continues to not commit. I have told him I would like to see him Thursday and from there we'll talk about not seeing each other anymore.

I told him that I do want to continue seeing him but that this is hurting beyond belief and I can't see him while he continues it.

He seemed relieved which scared me.

I said that I am not ending the marriage but I am telling him that I can't see him until he decides either way. I said I will not end our marriage, that he will end it, not me.

He said he is going to set a date to decide (****!!) he is going to get together with friends and decide by the 30th July. I'm scared it won't be me, but then, it isn't me now anyway.

He said he still has a lot of feelings for me, but that he is confused and that she has a lot to offer. I said that he must love her because he is giving up me and our marriage for her.

I told him that no matter what I want him to be happy. That I hope she treats him well and that if she hurts him I will hunt her down and kill her (I wouldn't really but I'd be pretty angry). I asked what she gives him that I don't - he said 'fun'. I said thank you, it will help me. I said that he has not really given me the chance to make him happy. That once a week is not enough. I said that I really missed the fun times we had and we reminisced together. WE laughed, I said I would like those fun times with him. I want to have fun with him.

Even though I am scared, I feel i am doing the right thing. I am talking a lot to him about what I need from him and I think I'm doing it in a way that is not disrepecting him. Can you help me with this - feeback?

I am scared he will chose not to have our marriage, but at least then it will be his decision and not mine. At least then I can finish this grieving process and start my life over. Do I regret this, yes very much, do I feel guilty, a little, there will always be regret, no matter what I do. I will doubt sometimes that I have done the right thing, but I don't think I can go on like this.

Do I still love him - undoubtedly, but its hurting too much now.

Can I get over him? I don't know, can I? I know you will all say yes, but right now I don't believe you.

Will he ever come back to me - I don't know, only God knows and time will tell.

I just want to be as happy as I can be now. I want my marriage but know that it won't be while she's around.

Oh God, you have put me through this for some reason, you have given me an increadible amount of pain. You've aided me through this, you sent me support. Please help me to know that I've made the right decision. Please help me get through this. Please send him back to me some day.

Seahorse - No words of wisdom here, but my thoughts, prayers, and hugs are with you (plus a big super sized plunger to help you get his head out of his rump). It is scary, but have faith. You have come so far and you have tried. That is so much more than so many could have done. Peace.

Dear Unsureheart
Your situation is so similar to mine. My H has been actively involved in an affair for almost ten months now...I've known for six. Plan A finally seemed to pay off three weeks ago when H announced things were changing with OW...he wanted back into the marriage and our home...I was so happy....he gave it three weeks after promising me he would do anything to win me back and promising his children a wonderful summer together to make up for all the pain he caused them. He's with her now...he will be moving to be with her as soon as possible and will abandon his children and a 30 year marriage for a divorcee with baggage and troubles. He's known her for less than a year and her body means more to him than his faithful, loving wife and family. He says he can only feel the romantic love he craves, with her and her body. He thinks it will be alot of hard work to make up for the pain he's caused HER by leaving her twice..but he's not willing to put in the same hard work for our marriage and family. What happens to as 53 year old man to cause him to lose all sense of responsibility and honor. He was the consummate husband and father....I'm just devastated. He's the one initiating Plan B now...I don't know where it will lead..I don't know how I'll survive this.
Wintergal

My dear Seahorse,

Any man that needs more adventure than you have already had is nuts. Of course that is only my opinion!

With that said, I see that you are a survivor and will survive this event and still be the shining star! Whether your H chooses your M or not, he will not be the winner, you will be. Even if he comes back you will be the winner, he will have been given the opportunity of a lifetime and he'd better not blow it again.

U R a beautful, fun and adventurous woman. The OW pales in comparison to you. The only thing she holds over you is the fact that all her bad side is basically still in the dark. Once that Pandora's box of PMS breaks loose, he will see what a cheap and worthless piece of stone he chose when he gave up his priceless gem.

Don't stop dancing or enjoying your life. Swim with those sharks. Enjoy your life. Treat others with respect and you will be able to look back with no regret. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hugz,
L.

I saw the work counsellor today, she will support me through this. She gave me steps on how to survive. About switching into survival mode when actually going through with plan B. It is the most scariest thing I will do in my life.

I cannot tell you how much my mind is freaking out. I am crying a lot, grieving, as to me this is now the end. I want to hold hope, but that scares me as it may lead to more pain. Everyone is supporting me that this is the best decision. They say they are very worried for my health physically and emotionally. I don't know what to care about now.

No one warned me that plan B would be this hard. What do I do now? How do I work on having a better marriage when I don't have one. How do I work on being single when I'm not. Please someone remind me life will go on now. Someone tell me there is a purpose to all this.

Someone tell me how to stop the tears.

The person I love does not want me anymore. The person I love dosen't need me anymore. He was happy when I said it, he sounded relieved. How do I get past this moment in time. I've set him free now, I really had no other option. Could I have loved him more than this?

Thursday I will give him my letter. Then he is free.

((((Seahorse))))

I wish I had more time to reply to you, but have to go to a meeting soon. We are in very similar places. It does get easier... one thing that helped me was to go on a trip - getting out of town and out of the environment that reminds you of everything that's going on really helps.

Life will go on, you deserve better than this.

Take care,
JG

Seahorse -- I know it hurts, but Orchid is right -- you have come a long way and you are a star. Unfortunately your WH cannot see that right now. Don't lose all hope.

On the other hand, I can tell you that you will survive. One of the most dear people I know had his wife leave him (with three very young children) for her boss. He never thought he would survive. Well three years later he is happy as an amazing dad and wonderful boyfriend to a great woman. He came out the other side and so can you (and maybe me).

You are stronger and you have done the hard work to look at your life and see what you wanted and needed to change. That takes courage, perseverance, integrity, and a whole host of other admirable qualities.

I truly hope one day you can look back on all of this with your marriage restored and enhanced with your current H, but if that is not what is meant to be, then I know you will not only survive you will thrive.

I am sending all of my good thoughts and hopes for you.

I don't know of any way to stop the tears, but after a time, they always stop.

Make your way into next week, day by day. The tears will stop, your smile will come back.

Here is a little more support from another friend many miles away. Far away, but still someone that cares. We send our prayers, it's not a cure but we believe it will help. We have faith in you.
SS

He said that I was mean to her and lied to her. Yes I did after I found out. I wanted her to go away. Why does he only blame me, why dosen't he see that she cheated on someone to go to me. Why dosen't he see she has lied and hurt me. She pursued a married man.

Before all this he was such a wonderful husband, he was my support my friend. How can he turn his back on me on the marriage. How can he say it was bad. I don't understand I can't understand it.

I feel so responsible for this breakup and I can't live with the pain is causing me. Please someone tell me how to get through this. I caused this because I was not a good wife. Its my fault.

Someone tell me something to make the pain go away.

Stop. Stop. Stop. How can you say you were not a good wife? Sure, we all could have done better and we all should take responsibility for our contributions or lack of contributions to the marriage prior the M. But no way were you "bad" enough to have caused him to go out and have multiple affairs.

I have the same days where I think to myself that I am so sorry for what I did or didn't do that could have changed the course of events/prevented the affair. But, then I read and read and talk to other people and the bottom line is that you can't make somebody have an affair and become a cruel and thoughtless alien creature.

Do not fall into that trap. I know you are hurting. I know you feel scared and alone. Think about how far you have come. I know we all want plan A to result in our spouses coming to their senses and coming back to us, but it doesn't always work that way and it's not the primary reason for plan A. You did a great plan A. You sound like a terrific person that any sane man would cherish and respect.

My WH drives me nuts with this up and down thing and my love is draining fast. I think the majority of people on this board that were ultimately successful had to go through some kind of plan B. You can do this. You can continue to be strong (ok, so maybe we'll have to have a few too many margaritas on line and cry outloud in our houses singing badly to bad songs a few times).

Do not let this get you too down (I won't say get you down at all because I know that's impossible).

Take a deep breath. Take it one day at a time -- you don't know what tomorrow will bring.

Liz,
Stop
USH is right, don't go there. It is not your fault. If you don't stop, we will make you repeat it 100 times. It's not my fault, its not my fault.

I don't know how he is able to do this to you, you must love him very much.

What he is doing is called fog - remember?
Don't go for it. Send your letter, don't talk to him.

I have to leave town, others will take care of you. Hold on, Hold on, cry as much as you have to but hold on.

SS

Seahorse,

I've been feeling so many of these same things recently... I am so sorry you are going through this. It sounds to me like your H has got his head up his bum!

Don't force yourself to believe it's over! It helped me to pretend initially that I was getting on with things just to try to get his attention, but I knew that the more I did this, the easier it would actually become, and it has.

Here are some other things that have helped me: meds for depression and anxiety, seeing my counselor regularly, getting out of town, leaning a lot on family and friends.

Cut yourself some slack. Not only is all this going on with your H, but you lost your Mum as well. This is a lot for anyone to handle, and the fact that you've gotten this far shows that you have incredible strength. Give yourself some credit. You will get through this. I know it hurts immensely right now, but it will get better.

Hugs,
JG

Well he's in the shower at the moment, its the ritual, he uses the shaver and has a shower - today will be the last time in my presence. I gave him the letter and told him, it was awful and I LB'd, but it dosen't matter now.

From what he says the marriage is over. He said he wasn't happy for a long time, and that she is not that important to him, so why is it that he is going? ****, I have to stop or I'll crack, I've just got to hold it together for a little while longer... I'll come back later.

Its really hard to not turn around on this decision.