Hello to all..

I am not a new member even though I am listed as one. I have not been here in awhile and when I tried to log on, I had trouble, but, I finally got on by putting a new email. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Maybe some of you remember me, I don't know. I have been here before as well as on some other "affair" boards. I have been dealing with this for a long time.

Anyway, a very brief summary of my story and then a request of everyone: I am a married woman involved in an emotional affair. (I will not be using abbreviations and will explain the reason for that shortly) This "affair" has been going on for so very long now and has came close to becoming a physical affair a couple of times. It never has been physical. The other man is also married.

There are, of course, many, many details I am leaving out here regarding my marriage, etc. But, for the sake of time and to get to the point, where things stand now, the other man and I only email with each other. We are supposed to be only friends, but if the two of us are ever single someday, we will get together. However, the emails we exchange are extremely sexual....we might as well be having sex with each other. He, I am sure, knows that I love him. I have told him of my feelings several times. I am fairly certain he feels the same way.

Several times over these years, he and I both have attempted to stop contacting each other. One of us ends up contacting the other though. At first, it was always me that gave in and contacted him. But, for the past year, perhaps a bit longer, I have been getting stronger about it and just when I have finally reached a good long period of no contact with him, he contacts me. We are "addicted" to the emails with each other.

He feels that there is nothing wrong with emailing, with flirting and teasing like this as long as there is no touching. Part of me agrees, part of me feels this is cheating. Part of me wants to stop this and I do try, part of me can't or won't.

By the way, I am not happy in my marriage and have brought up divorce a couple of times with my husband, but, he is not making it easy for me...he lays guilt trips on me. I end up feeling like I am not being fair and giving the marriage a chance, that I am being selfish...so I stay and try to work on it. I am also a deeply religious person so leaving this marriage will be a personally painful thing for me to do. I have very little knowledge of how my "other man's" feelings are about his marriage or how important it is to him, the only thing he has really said to me is that he wishes he wasn't married, but, he is and so "friends" is all we can ever be.

Again, alot of details are left out here, please keep that in mind...alot of the anguish I have gone through, alot of the emotion. I am sure the same can be said for my other man's feelings. That being said, here is what I am asking:

Please give me all of your best encouragement and responses as to why he and I should end our emailing and emotional affair and relationship until/unless we are both single. After I get a good set of responses, I am planning on emailing this whole thread to my other man. I am hoping maybe he will even come to this discussion board and talk to you all, I don't know.

All I know is, I am trying to do what is right in my conscience. I love him very much and don't want to hurt him or myself. The more he and I email, the more I want to be with him and it only hurts in the long run. Please, please, please don't be too harsh with us in your responses. I am asking for help to prevent and put a stop to this because he and I can't seem to get anywhere ourselves. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

PS. The reason for no abbreviations is so that when he reads this, he will understand...he will not be familiar with the abbreviations.

PPS. He is the "w" in ws_woman <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

If I had the time I'd give you a 2 year biography as to why you should end this. But all you have to do is read the information on this website with an open mind, and you can come to understand why.

Of course he thinks it's ok to continue this...he's having needs met, continuing this fantasy, and yet he's able to sleep at night feeling justified because he's not technically sleeping with you. He probably doesn't consider this an affair, much like the poster Tempted. As long as it isn't hurting anyone what's the harm? That's the general idea. Well...it IS hurting someone...it's hurting you, it's hurting him and it's most assuradly hurting BOTH of your marriages.

Living in pain is a horrible way to live. Living a dual life is a horrible way to live. You know this. And you know you are the only one with the power to stop this. So do that.

I HIGHLY suggest NOT sending him this link. I made the mistake of sending my OM to the message board where I used to vent and post for information. I lost the privacy of my own thoughts by doing that, because I knew whatever I wrote he would read. The only reason I can figure you would want to do this, is so that he might help you end this. You are stronger than that. Why on earth would he help you? He'll probably just try to talk you out of it.

If you really want to do what's right...make a stand for yourself, BY yourself. If you need support, you can certainly get that here...just don't try to get it from him.

I had a very unfulfilling marriage for many years and it became a HORRIBLE marriage when I had contact with the OM. I saw absolutly NO HOPE for us. Went so far as to seperate and finally started divorce. Somewhere along the way what everyone was saying seeped in...and I pulled my head out. We're incredibly happy and I'm incredibly fulfilled! You CAN have that. You CAN avoid the pain that divorce brings along with the heartwrenching pain you have to witness your children go through. Think long and hard about whether you want to have to deal with another woman taking care of your kids one day if your spouse remarries. I couldn't bare that thought. Made me think long and hard about what I was doing.

ws - woman - don't do it - end it - I will tell you my husband had an affair and it has been the worst thing that I have ever had to deal with in my life.. I wish that he had ended our marriage first if he wanted to have an affair - no one should have to live through the hell that a betrayed spouse has to live through - if either one of you have ever loved your spouses you will either end it or end your marriages and then be together - Do not put your spouses through this hell...

ws - woman - don't do it - end it - I will tell you my husband had an affair and it has been the worst thing that I have ever had to deal with in my life.. I wish that he had ended our marriage first if he wanted to have an affair - no one should have to live through the hell that a betrayed spouse has to live through - if either one of you have ever loved your spouses you will either end it or end your marriages and then be together - Do not put your spouses through this hell...

CLEO!!! I didn't know it was you!! Good to see you! Kind of :-P

IMHO, I think you can find happiness in your marriage if you and your husband are willing to work at it, but you cannot be happy with your husband until you stop contact with this other man. A divorce will have effect any and all your future relationships. Don't go through life knowing that you could have done more to save your marriage.

What you don't seem to realize is that any relationship will take work in order to stay healthy and fulfilling.

Right now you've got a fantasy relationship with the other man, and - if you and him were to divorce your spouses and marry each other - what makes you think that the old 'no-further-work-on-the-relationship-is-needed' habit is not going to show up in a new marriage with him?

Your affair is a fantasy that gives you the illusion that beign in love will solve everything. But beign in love is nothing more than infatuation that lasts as long as the fantasy is fulfilling your emotional needs. But even your affair does require a bit of work to keep it alive but it's a 'labor of love', and seems like no work at all.

Beign in a marriage - where you are no longer in love - makes the work to keep that marriage alive, a chore to be dreaded and avoided at all costs and more so since you've got the affair sapping away energies that should be used to work on solving the problems in your marriage.

Unlike your present husband - whom you see day in day out and are witness to his good and bad sides - your lover is a total stranger. And no matter how much you idealize him, the fact remains that he, just like you, have committed infidelity. What makes you so sure that you won't wind up like a lot of wayward spouses who've come to this board stating that they too are now betrayed spouses by their former lover turned spouse? They often end up trading downward and - when they've realized this - they grieve the end of their former marriage because it's already too late to go back to it.

You want good reasons why you and your lover should end your affair? Consider the above statements as points to reflect on.

Good luck.

End it noew- change email address and don't let him knoew your new one then concentrate on your h and making your marriage all that it can be.
Jante

I feel terrible when I read something like this. I have just started the road to recovery with my unfaithful husband and we went through hell to get this far. But what we have learnt from all of it is you owe it to each other to try to one work it out or tell each other how you feel about your relationship. Two don't get involved with a third party until you tidy up the first relationship. Sort it out with your husband no matter how hard it may seem - whether you stay together or separte it is going to be hard either way you go. Your husband deserves to know and be let free of your relationship. After reading your message though an E mail relationship isn't really living in the real world and eventually you will be back in the real world - will it be such a fulfilling relationship then?

Thank you all for your responses to my request. First of all, Hope4future, it is sure great to see you, we sure shared alot on the other message board so I feel like I know you! I am really happy that you are doing so well. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Secondly, everyone, again, please remember that I gave a nutshell description of my relationship and of my marriage.

I have been having issues in my marriage for awhile now and I have been trying to work on them for a very long time. I have at least 4 (probably more) books on improving marriages, including the one from this website. I thought this website was so excellent and full of great info and help. I have spent about 3 years now trying to save my marriage. I have questioned myself about many of this issues you all have brought up.

The reason I posted this is, I want to give my other man something to read. I want him to understand that what we are doing is a dead-end. I pray all the time that he and I both have the strength to resist contacting each other. Like I said, I have been doing better, but, he lately, has not. I was thinking of referring him to marriagebuilders in general to maybe show him how to keep his marriage together and avoid temptations in the future. I haven't decided whether it is a good idea to email him this particular post or not. I don't know. I am honestly just trying to help us both to give each other up and to help him understand why even just emailing is fueling an addiction and IS cheating too.

Hope I am making sense. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

You should be concerned about even e-mailing him the info because you still seem to be emotionally vulnerable to him.

You may read all the books on how to improve your marriage but until you writte a no contact letter to the other man and stick to it -despite the pain of withdrawl - your marriage has zero chance of surviving.

Your husband may not know about your affair but he is probably living and feeling the consequences of it. Have you any idea what it's like for us betrayed and formerly betrayed spouses to deal with a spouse that is so deep in the fog of the affair? You may not realize how the behavior of a wayward spouse changes but we do. I do not know how you and your husband treat each other, but a wayward spouse's behavior is seldom kind and repentant. And it's not just my opinion but also the opinion of friends and relatives that know both the wayward and betrayed spouse, and are amazed by the hostility of the wayward spouse towards the betrayed spouse. Somehow by your posts I do not get the feeling that you are that kind of person but you are playing with fire if you let your feelings of trying to help the other man, dictate your actions. There are quite a few former wayward spouses that started their affairs when they started acting like confidants and counselors to the other person.

And to close things off, I would like to remind you that just like you - a very religious person - fell into adultery, so can your husband. Wayward spouses never beleive for a minute that they may become betrayed spouses themselves but it certainly does happen, and ignoring your husband because you are consummed with thoughts of the other man, is one way to put him on the road to infidelity.

Ws_woman,
I remember you from before. Well seems like you are still in the same place. From what I remember and what you wrote sounds like you are in love with a thought not the man.

Why? Because you stated there were very important pieces of his character and life that you did not know about him. Even as a friend you would know these things.

So while one may be divulging their personal life's woes, the other is kinda clammy dontcha think? You don't really know where he stands. Does he? Hm..... Of course he knows where he stands, you and he have been a item for a long time.

If I were a betting person and you took the move to be available, I'd say he'd drop you in a short while. You are nice to have on the side but you are no tamale in his books.

I don't mean to sound mean but he does not appear to be making you his #1. FOR A REASON? Even if that reason is $$ you are still rated less than #1, in reality you could be even lower than that. Is that ok?

Harsh real world. Yep that is what it is.

Now you have the opportunity to be #1 in your H's life or just another number in someone elses with no guarantees.

Did that dampen the fire a bit? Let me know, I more of that where it came from. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

L.

Almost no contact after a year. Hmmmmm...wonder why? Alright I'll give it a shot. He probably wasn't getting his at home and figured what the H#ll, why not call her. You see, even though there was an extended period of no contact, it starts where it left off and that was..... DING!!!!DING!!!! ....almost physical.

How could you even consider him when he's proven that he can do without you. Except of course for that "twitch" in his pants that he feels he needs to take care of. Of course he's thinking, why not. I'll show her a little affection, atttention, tell her what she needs to hear and then I can get what I want. Then after, I won't have to contact her again until the "twitch" comes back. What, another month, or so? How about another year?

If that is what you want, you need to lean back and try looking at it from another perspective. Because it's plain "JUST SCREWED UP"!!!!

wwl

<small>[ September 23, 2002, 05:42 PM: Message edited by: AD ]</small>

Cleo, break this down a little bit and maybe you can start to see things a little clearer. I know when you try to look at everything at once, it can all become one big mush in your head.

For starters, what's your biggest anxiety about getting this man out of your life? If you think about writing him a no contact FOREVER letter, blocking his email address and vowing to leave that relationship behind forever...what feeling do you get and why do you think you have it? Is it really HIM that you are afraid to leave behind, or are you really afraid you'll be left with an unfulfilled need for the rest of your life?

I know you think it would be difficult to break off contact with him forever, but let's get serious for a moment. I've done it...and the man I loved wanted to spend the rest of his life with me. He was willing and ready to marry me and face the community in which we live AND his life long friend and relative...just because he loved me. Your "friend" isn't willing to give up ANYTHING for you...he's using you for his own pleasure and justifying it because he believes it to be a mutually beneficial deal. I knew this man for 10 years...he was a close friend of BOTH hubby and I. He loved our son very much. And now we don't even speak to each other. We avoid certain family events because the other might be there. And we do it because it's a consequence...it's the price we pay for crossing a line that should never have been crossed. We live only 2 miles apart...we meet each other on the road...sometimes we wave, other times we don't. There's not really hard feelings so much as just hurt and shame. So don't tell me it would be hard to do the right thing...it could be a LOT harder.

How long have you ever really maintained no contact with him and thrown all your efforts in to your marriage? What things did you try? What do you see as obstacles in your marriage that are preventing you from being "in love" like you desire?

Think about some of these things. I thought hubby and I were the most incompatible people on earth...but it seems to be working just fine now. I thought it would be impossible for hubby to ever really "get it" and it turned out that I was the one who needed to "get it". It's all about attitude and choice.

Hope,

Thank you for the last post there. Once again, I will try to not respond when OM sends me any type of email. You see, I have been doing better and better at not having contact with him...I know that it is a dead-end. But, when HE contacts me, I get weak. I am not at the point where I can resist the temptation and not read the emails. I know you asked me what is it about him that I don't want to give up and I do have an answer for you, but, it would take pages to fill up. I do know the answer though and I am just going to have to find the strength to resist.

Here's what Dr. Harley says about this:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> Never see or communicate with a former lover</strong>

Once an affair is first revealed, whether it's discovered or admitted, the victimized spouse is usually in a state of shock. The first reaction is usually panic, but it's quickly followed by anger. Divorce and sometimes even murder are contemplated. But after some time passes (usually about three weeks), most couples decide that they will try to pull together and save their marriage.

The one having an affair is in no position to bargain, but he or she usually tries anyway. The bargaining effort usually boils down to somehow keeping the lover in the loop. You'd think that the unfaithful spouse would be so aware of his or her weaknesses, and so aware of the pain inflicted, that every effort would be made to avoid further contact with the lover as an act of thoughtfulness to the stunned spouse. But instead, the unfaithful spouse argues that the relationship was "only sexual" or was "emotional but not sexual" or some other peculiar description to prove that continued contact with the lover would be okay.

Most victimized spouses intuitively understand that all contact with a lover must end for life. Permanent separation not only helps prevent a renewal of the affair, but it is also a crucial gesture of consideration to someone who has been through hell. What victimized spouse would ever want to know that his or her spouse is seeing or communicating with a former lover at work or in some other activity?

In spite of career sacrifices, friendships, and issues relating to children's schooling, I am adamant in recommending that there be no contact with a former lover for life. For many, that means a move to another state. But to do otherwise fails to recognize the nature of addiction and its cure.

Look at M.S.'s husband. Here he is, thousands of miles from his lover, and yet he still feels compelled to call her. Can you imagine the trouble M.S. would have had separating them if they had not moved? Their move was the best thing that could have happened to their marriage because it not only revealed the affair, but it also set up the conditions that would make ending it possible -- total separation.

We don't know if R.J. still sees his lover, but he says he has broken off all contact. In many cases where a person is still in town, that's hard to prove. But one thing's for sure, if he ever does see his lover, it will put him in a state of perpetual withdrawal from his addiction, and make the resolution of his marriage essentially impossible. In fact, one of the reasons he is not recovering after three months of separation may be that he is not being truthful about the separation.

How should an unfaithful spouse tell his lover that their relationship is over? If left to their own devices, many would take a Caribbean cruise to say their final good-byes. Obviously, that will not do. In fact, I recommend that the final good-bye be in the form of a letter, and not in person or even by telephone.

My advice is to write a final letter in a way that the victimized spouse would agree to send it. It should begin with a statement of how selfish it was to cause those they loved so much pain, and while marital reconciliation cannot completely repay the offense, it's the right thing to do. A statement should be made about how much the unfaithful spouse cares about his spouse and family, and for their protection, has decided to completely end the relationship with the lover. He or she has promised never to see or communicate with the lover again in life, and asks the lover to respect that promise. Nothing should be said about how much the lover will be missed. After the letter is written, the victimized spouse should read and approve it before it is sent.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

ws_woman:

Get yourself into counseling with one of the Harley's over the phone. The only thing worse than being stuck in a bad marriage is ineffectively trying to work on a bad marriage. Steve would be able to help you (and your husband) get an effective plan to deal with this situation.

My suggestion is for you to write a no-contact letter. And make three copies. One for OM, one for OM's wife, and one for your husband. That'd be much more likely to put an end to this nonsense. Accountability is a big help with temptation.

<small>[ July 12, 2002, 03:05 PM: Message edited by: K ]</small>

Hi _s woman,

I understand that not responding to emails is very difficult and that you're not willing to block them altogether. Why not try something less difficult to start with?

I'm thinking about your name since you stated that OM is the "w" in wswoman. Taking "w" out of your name could be the first step in this process for you. Why not change your name to something that reflects your true self or your true goal?

Hope this helps. If not, just disregard it. Many people here can give you much better advice than I can on how to start moving toward a terrific relationship with your spouse.

Cleo, if you want to email you can reach me at parent_talk@hotmail.com

I think step one is getting your mind set as to WHY you want/need to initiate no contact. When you get that determination, it will all go much easier. Then I think you need to get a letter together explaining that you will no longer accept letters from him, nor will he hear from you again. I would tell him that any deviation from that plan and you will be forced to tell his wife and your husband. That ought to give him some motivation to leave well enough alone. And then you need to actually block his address so that unless he changes HIS email address, all corespondences from him will be returned without you ever having to see them.

Just some thoughts. I've come a long way and it's a WONDERFUL place to be. I'd love to see you find your way too.