I am 90% sure that the A is finally over. My WW is working hard to ensure that contact is limited as much as possible.

I was out of town the last two days and on the phone yesterday, she was telling me of an upcoming function (baseball game-company typically gets a box) and her boss wanted her to attend. OM would be there and WW is nervous about it. In order to make the experience less difficult, she wanted someone she knew other than the OM to go. So she told me she asked another guy that she would like to carpool with him (he lives in the same area). She knew that he was teetering on the edge of not going, and carpooling, she thought, would be the best thing to help anchor him into a comitment to go. She told him that she did not know anyone there and did not wanted someone she new there. She told him that they could sit together. (Mind you, in the past she has said she enjoys talking with this guy. Conversation being her number 1 EA)

I got angry about this and said "don't you think that that is a little personaly." She blew up at me. She said "why can't you trust me. Do you think I want to sleep with this guy. I do not want to stay in a relationship like this." I tried to smooth things over in my usual way and told her that I did not think she was going to sleep with this guy. I told her that what I said was not sensitive and I was sorry for saying it. I told her that she has not givin me a reason to trust her. I told her she has never said she wanted to work on us. She told me "do I have to say the words. My actions should be able to think for themselves". I was stumped again on this one. I kept thinking to myself, "what actions". I do not think that her dumping the OM had anything to do with me, and all to do with the fact she did not think they were going to work.

Boy did I let her control this situation. I was so weak. I spent the rest of the day trying to sort out my feelings about our R and what I expected out of WW.

I am tired of her pulling the "dump" card out. She has done this in the past during all of this mess and it makes me loose control of the situation. I start thinking that I was wrong in feeling how I feel.

AM I WRONG IN FEELING THIS WAY?? I think her actions are flirtatious wih this other guy whether or not she intended them to be. Maybe I do not trust her. I guess she has not givin me any reason to trust her.

I did manage to figure out what I wanted out of her. I want her to work on herself and the marriage. I think we both have a lot of work to do on ourselfs and our R. I have been working hard to understand myself and better myself, and she is doing nothing. Maybe it is too soon after the A is over to expect anything out of her. I am not comfortable with the status quo. I will no longer accept being number 6 or 7 in her priority list. She does not want to go to a counselor and I am not going to push the issue. If she does not want to read any books, I am not going to push her. I do know one thing and that is "I refuse to stay in a relatioship when she has no desire to work on us or want to try to love me again." She has burried herself into her work now and herself and I am not sure how long I can take that. I am understanding that she is extremely busy right now, but I had to learn to balance work (I am extremely busy now).

Last night I tried to cuddle with her and she pushed me away and said that she feels like she is being smothered. I guess maybe I need to back off and give her some breathing room.

<small>[ July 11, 2002, 07:56 AM: Message edited by: dreamland ]</small>

You are not wrong in feeling that way, it is natural. I felt the same way, but my WW took it as me being controling. My WW could never see the difficulties I was going through.

Be very carful here. This sounds like the month I spent with my WW when she broke it off with OM#1. She felt smothered and I felt like she wansn't doing anything to work on the R. She eventiually left and is now living with OM#2 who she barely knows. I would say let your feelings be know in a calm way, and respect her feelings of needing space. You can't force her to be faithful, you need to fill her LB$ in a way that she wants to be faithful.

This is so hard, I wish you well. If she is feeling smothered ask her what you can do to help her feel less somthered. I think being untrustworthy about this friend is a big LB for your W. You and I know that this is a natural reaction, but she can't see it yet. I hope what I said makes come sense. Good Luck.

SCBI

<small>[ July 11, 2002, 07:38 AM: Message edited by: StillCan'tBelieveIt ]</small>

DL;
Forget about her and about what she is doing/not doing. Work on YOU! Work on finding what ENs you have not fulfilled in her, work on being the best H you can be, work on being the best person you can be.

Right now, and probably for some time to come, you cannot expect anything from her; love, committment, reciprocity.

Work on you, detach from her, and give it time.

StillCan'tBelieveIt,
I guess I can see that my reaction was natural, but should I not be feeling this way? Is it wrong to feel this way?

I am hoping the smothered comment was only about the me trying to cuddle. I hope that she does not think this about everything I am doing. I guess I should ask her.
-------
Spacecase,
Your right. It is too soon to expect anything. I need to concentrate on Plan A. How long do we continue Plan A after the A is over? When does Plan A assimilate (or does it assimilate) into a permanent part of ourselfs? I do not want to continue this pace of working on myself the rest of my life. It is too difficult. Should I get to a place where I am comfortable with who I am? I think I work so hard at improving myself and our M because I feel insecure and now have a lower self esteem.

Dreamland,

I know you keep saying the A is "over"...but realize that it's only "over because she isn't getting her way with OM. If he actually gave a hoot about her and put forth action to be with her...that's where she'd be. So while they may not actually be seeing one another...it's actually far from over.

You're her personal yo-yo right now. She's got you when she decides to take you out and play with you. While I'm sure you being there for her when she needs you is scoring you a few points...any neediness or frustration exhibited will definatly take those points and more away. Don't get me wrong...it's totally understandable you would be at the end of your rope.

She needs her distance so that she can go through withdrawl. The problem is, if she still wants the OM then I'm not sure she's going through actual withdrawl. Probably more like taking a sabatical from her real life back in to fantasyland.

It doesn't seem to me that she's interested in working on herself or her marriage right now. That being the case...how much longer do you really want to do this? I'm not saying you should give up on your marriage...I'm just wondering how much benefit sticking around to take the brunt of her delusions will help any of you in the long run. If it's just going to run your love bank completely dry quicker...why not move to Plan B and save what's left.

I know...I keep harping Plan B. It's just hard to see all you guys taking this crap that I once dished out myself. I know how little anyone elses thoughts or feelings ever really even entered my mind at that time, and how little anything anyone would do made a difference. I was in my own little world and only reality biting me in the butt brought me out of it.

Hey Hope,

You are probably right about the A not actually 100% over. Her withdrawal signs have slowed down quite a bit.

I think I may warp what is actually real in my mind a bit depending upon how I am feeling. Right now I feel prety used and crapy, so I guess my feelings come out quite a bit when I write. I do not think I can portray a truly unbiased view of what is actually going on.

With that said, I am not sure if I have what it takes to go to a Plan B. I do not want to put my life on hold for that period of time. If I am not going to be with her, I do not want to be married to her. Having kids makes a Plan B very difficult to be effective. I think in order for Plan B to be effective, you have to cut off all contact with WW. I could not do this with kids. It would be too hard on them and too tough on me. I think if Plan A does not work, then seperate and Plan D to follow shortly thereafter.

I am halfway through the "Passionate Marriage." Great book. I think I lack quite a bit of differention. When I get more and more emotionally connected, I loose more and more of myself. Current events are a good example.

I think I have held back my feelings so much that I am becoming less and less differentiated all in an effort to do a good Plan A. I think my feelings will be LB's so I hold them in. Sooner or later, I will need to have another serious conversation with her about us. I just do not know when would be good timing. What you say in your posts is how I feel, I would like to tell her that. How long should I wait before I try to be intimate with her again? She has been intimate with me, but I really have not been intimate with her (self-validating intimacy that is)?

I talked with her this morning and she appeared to be very reciprical and cheerful. I think (in her own way) she is trying to work on our relationship. She is letting me kiss her more now and is showing some affection (touching my arm and initiating holding hands). I do not think she initiates any other contact? I am just not sure. Too many mixed signals and not much intimate conversation recently to know for sure. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> I just do not want to push right now for much more.

I guess I am just rambling here. Sorry. Thanks for your perspective. I value your insite.

Hi Dreamland --

Its really hard for a WS to jump right into a committed recovery plan. She still has withdrawal to get through. And it sounds like she's still in observation mode on your Plan A efforts.

Take it slow. I see a lot of BS's here who think that as soon as the A is over that the marriage is going to become a priority. I think your wife is still in "taker" mode, and you should go back and read more about that.

She views that inviting another person and the carpooling arrangements as a way to protect you -- and instead of thanking her for her efforts -- you chastised her. So she may be feeling that you're never satisfied. Then you want to cuddle her....ugh. I wouldn't have been in the mood for that either.

Back off on your expectations of her. Let her get through withdrawal. And try to recognize some of her efforts (even tho they may seem half-assed to you.)

Dreamland,

Lexxy is right, I had just this same experience with my WS. I did recognize her efforts and tried to pay attention to when I might have been obsessing about the A. but I did not let her know that I could see any pain she was having, now that I think about it, talking about the A in any fashion was a LB.

I think now is the time to focus on you two. Now is the time to offer out a method or way to rebuild the marraige, aka the rules of Protection, Honesty, Care, and Time. When my WS and I tried to restart she would not hear of anything of anything, and I did not understand the improtance of these rules to the recovery process, so I waited, big mistake! A mistake because those should have been the boundries for my staying. ( The restart was brought on by my saying I was leaving, she spent a day crying, then asked me to stay saying what a fool she had been, I stayed but did not set any guidelines, saying somenting like "we can work this out only by following these guidelines....) now after some more ups and downs, we're sleeping in different places....

For you, I think that if she is not aware of the MB stuff, about the only thing you can do is show her the rules YOU are going to follow ( and have been as your Plan A right?) She should know what the guidelines are so she can understand where YOU are comming from, not to force them on her. Hopfully she will listen....

Take it slow like Lexxy suggests, stay watchfull, not obsessive, she is being watchfull also and judgeing if comming back is right. (even if it is over with the OM, she may still be uncertain about being with you either)

Be VERY glad she is still touching and affectionante, that means she has not reached withdrawal and cares about you and your M still. IMHO Plan A ing even stronger just now would show her she made the right decision (with the A being over, she also did not have to want work on the M either) And it will help you regain some of your character just because your not as focused on the A.... but on recovery.

Many of your posts have been very helpful, thanks....

DRS

Another thought,

From my BS side, having NC with a co-worker can be difficult at normal work hours, granted. But is going to a company ball game really necessary at all? Can you go too? While she is trying to protect you by going with someone else to help stay away from FOM, should she be going at all?

I very much agree with you and you feelings about her having done this in a better way.....I don't know all the circumstances but I think your feelings are normal here.

Not LBing here is also normal. Just another thought.......

DRS

Lexxxy,

I do think she is still going through some withdrawal. Like SAA says, recovery can't begin until withdrawal has ended. I need to be a patient observer and continue Plan A efforts.

I am not so sure she is trying to protect me by carpooling. I think she is more interested in protecting herself from OM and her feelings from OM. I do wish that she was trying to protect me, but it is just so hard to see that she would do anything for me. I need to look for her signs of trying to fix us. I am just a little jaded right now.

I think you are right about the cuddling and the earlier blowup. I guess I did not see this.
--------
DesertReStart,

I think you are right about talking about the A. I tried to never bring this up. I have always tried let her bring it up (sometimes unsuccessful).

About talking with her about the rules of recovery, my thinking is that it is too soon. I think the A needs to be over completely before recovery can begin. Right now I think talk about us and our future and rules of recovery will only be LB'ing because she is thinking about how she misses OM and will feel that I am being selfish (WOW!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> - FOG). The A is not over until the withdrawal is finished (IMHO).

You are right about taking a stand at some point along the line and telling her that just because the A is over does not mean that we are O.K. and I am not going to leave her. My future in the marriage depends upon her reaction and commitment to work on the marriage. If she is not going to commit to me, I am in no obligation to continue with the marriage, and I am not going to wait around until she finds someone else to comit to. I will give this withdrawal thing the time required before I begin setting boundaries. I am just not sure how much time.

I am not sure about increasing Plan A efforts. She has told me in the past that doing nice things for someone during an A can be LB'ing. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> She explained that the nice things make the WS feel guilty and even upset at the BS. I have to be careful here with my efforts and look at her reaction with each of my actions.

Unfortunately, she informs me she has little choice about going to the baseball event. Her boss is bringing in other bigger bosses and requested my WW attendance.

About my feelings regarding my wife going to the game with another guy, I am not concerned about whether my actions are normal or not. I am concerned about whether or not my actions are wrong. I do feel that they are wrong because it uncovers some hidden trust issues I have about my WW. Even though lack of faith in your WS is normal under these circumstances, true recovery must include a leap of faith by the BS. I have got to get to a point where I fully trust her to make the right decisions about us. This is necessary for the bases of a strong relationship because it is all about what we think about our Spouse.

Hi Dreamland. I am so sorry you are going through this. I think you have gotten a lot of good advice here, and I hope you can use some of it to your benefit.

You wrote:
"Unfortunately, she informs me she has little choice about going to the baseball event. Her boss is bringing in other bigger bosses and requested my WW attendance."

It was asked about you going with her. Is that possible? I'm sure she could ask about it. I mean, usually when I have things for work out of normal work hours our spouses are included. Just a thought. I actually had a function for work that required staying at a hotel over night, just a few months after d-day. DH and DS came along. It helped some.

"About my feelings regarding my wife going to the game with another guy, I am not concerned about whether my actions are normal or not. I am concerned about whether or not my actions are wrong. I do feel that they are wrong because it uncovers some hidden trust issues I have about my WW. Even though lack of faith in your WS is normal under these circumstances, true recovery must include a leap of faith by the BS. I have got to get to a point where I fully trust her to make the right decisions about us. This is necessary for the bases of a strong relationship because it is all about what we think about our Spouse."

Oh, I agree, there is that time when you will have to take a leap of faith, but that doesn't mean blindly trusting before you are ready. As a WW I know and fully believe that my DH does not have to trust me on my terms, when I want him too, or how soon I want him to. It's a matter of when he is ready, and I am willing to work with him on that, however need be. There is nothing wrong with not trusting. It's ok. You have obviously forgiven, and forgetting may never happen. Trust will take some time, and that's ok, but in the interim substitute it with simply believing in her a little. My husband once told me he trusts me. I gave him a gentle smile and said "no you don't". Then before he could say anything I said, "you want to, but you don't, and that's ok. I've given you every reason not to trust me, and I know in time I will again give you every reason to trust me. Until then all I need you to do is believe in me, just a little." He smiled, hugged me and said he can do that.

Sure, trust is important in a strong relationship, but so is gaining that trust in a productive way. You trusted her once and she disregarded that, she has to understand that she needs to work with you on this issue. I think you are being too harsh on yourself. Your feelings are not wrong (IMO). Personally, I have to agree with you. I too feel that her choice of companion for the game is a bit risky and inconsiderate of you, your feelings, and even your M. That's just my opinion, so take it for what you will.

Trust will come in time. Don't try to force it, just allow it to be. When you are ready it will be. The harder you try to force it though, the harder it will be to really feel it. I think you are doing a wonderful job here, and I wish you the best.

Take care, and good luck.

Dreamland,

Yes, you have to be the judge of when to discuss all of the MB stuff. My thought was of course not to do it right now...but not to wait too long before you two start working together. You are right about the timing being important.

One of the things I was thinking about was that you can start following the four guidelines before telling her anything. To me this is really a large part of plan A. You fix yourself to the point the WS will see that what they were leaving (or running from) doesnot exist anymore and there is a reason to stay or re-start a committment to the M. They willl feel good about coming back. I think I saw this in one of your posts....

I experienced the giving of gifts and being nice out of the ordinary, it did make my WS feel worse (more guilty) and I found doing that part of a plan was really only trying to "win" her back. Doesn't work does it?

IMHO your plan A has moved from doormat to doorway, she still need to know the doorway is open...so that she will re-committ....but it is not flapping in the breeze without direction, it is in whatever position it is in because you (singular at first), then you (the two of you) have put it there.

Yes, you won't be able to do much together until the withdrawal period is over, but there are things you can start now..... staying out of your own fog as you have been doing is one....

Soon she will know just how lucky she is....

DRS

Her choices in regards to the company outing:

A) Go and tell you a lie about OM being there.

B) Don't go (loss of oppotunity to hob-nob with the big bosses, and earn points with boss)

C) Go and try to diffuse the sitation with OM by having a third party involved. Carpool with this person so your husband will know that you're not spending any extra "alone" time with OM. Communicate your plan to H to reassure him that you're taking some steps to avoid closeness to OM.

Then when you tell H of your plan. He's dissatisfied and accuses you of now flirting with another man. Sigh.....there's no pleasing him.

(Get my point??)

dreamland,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> StillCan'tBelieveIt,
I guess I can see that my reaction was natural, but should I not be feeling this way? Is it wrong to feel this way? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, it is not wrong to feel that way. We can't help our feelings. People can't help the way they feel, like when a married person feels attracted to someone who is not their spouse. We can't help the way we feel, but we can help how we act on those feelings.

I think right now you are not in full recovery yet so just act like the A is still going on, even if it's not. Continue to plan A, avoind LB's and come here to vent.

tutter,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Trust will take some time, and that's ok, but in the interim substitute it with simply believing in her a little. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is great advice. Start with believing just a little, then move forward as best you can.

Good Luck.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Her choices in regards to the company outing:

A) Go and tell you a lie about OM being there.

B) Don't go (loss of oppotunity to hob-nob with the big bosses, and earn points with boss)

C) Go and try to diffuse the sitation with OM by having a third party involved. Carpool with this person so your husband will know that you're not spending any extra "alone" time with OM. Communicate your plan to H to reassure him that you're taking some steps to avoid closeness to OM.

Then when you tell H of your plan. He's dissatisfied and accuses you of now flirting with another man. Sigh.....there's no pleasing him. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Seeing the view from the other side is very helpful. We BS feel pretty down sometimes because it seems like in the begining that we are doing everything to bring a better M to our WS, but they are not doing anything in return. Well what we have to understand is that the WS is looking for confirmation that:

A. staying in the marriage is the right thing or

B. leaving the marriage is the right thing to do.

Because of my poor actions directly after D-day (when my W wanted to stay and fix the M), she used my LBing (which some of that was being too clingy) as validation to leave.

SCBI

DreamLand:

I will save you the trouble typing our earlier phone conversation on the thread. I am so unbelievably hurt right now! I feel just as used as you feel. You are not honest with your feelings with me. I come to this site to uncover how you really feel….and I get slapped in the face with how horribly I make you feel. I AM SORRY FOR ALL THE WRONGS I HAVE DONE!!! AND I KNOW I HAVE DONE MANY WRONGS – TO YOU, OUR FAMILY, OUR CHILDREN, AS WELL AS TO ME. I MESSED UP AND MADE A HUGE MESS OF EVERYTHING. I AM PAYING THE PRICE FOR ALL OF THAT! I AM SORRY THAT YOU ARE ALSO! I AM NOT LIVING IN A “FOG” – YOU ARE. No matter how many times I say I am sorry, it does not erase what has happened and the emptiness I feel. Emptiness about myself, about you and about us. I have NOTHING to give…why do you expect ANYTHING right now?!?!?!?

I do not get a chance to visit this site because I am up to my eyeballs in kids, family stuff and work. I work 30 hrs / week from home (so that I may be with my kids and earn a handsome salary that DL appreciates) and chase kids all day. I have TOO learned to balance work and family. I still do a pretty good job of managing home and kids while trying not to let work bleed into family time. I have been very sensitive to this because I always FELT it was a hot button for you….BUT HAVE ALWAYS DENIED TO ME THAT IT BOTHERED YOU. I have to read on this site that “I (have) buried (myself) into work now” and you “are not sure how long (you) can take that”. WHEN HAVE I DONE THIS?????

I have been very honest with you about my contact and no-contact with OM. I have told you about EVERY incidence that he has contacted me and when & how I responded and did not respond. I leave my work email open and available to make it available for you to read if you wanted. I have told you about the two upcoming work events that OM will probably be attending and how I will handle the confrontation….which is where this “other guy” comes in. I want to make sure in advance that I have a diversion from OM. I do not want to talk to OM before the event, during the event, or be tempted to talk with him after the event. Carpooling will not allow me to do this. Having someone there that I know (other than OM) will allow me to at least have someone else to talk to besides OM. I do not know who all will be attending this event. All I know is my manager (whom I do not get to see often because I work from home) will be there with other Senior Execs and Partners and I want someone else, whom I know, to be there so that I won’t feel uncomfortable or stuck with OM. I am NOT flirting with this other guy. Unfortunately, I only work with men. I want to control some of the situation that I am walking into.

Frankly, I know I do not deserve your trust. I have not proven to be trustworthy. I AM BLATENTLY AWARE OF THE MISTAKES I HAVE MADE AND CONTINUE TO MAKE. IT IS PAINFULLY OBVIOUS WHEN I READ YOUR POSTS AT HOW BAD I AM IN OUR RELATIONSHIP. I agree with all of the others – you do not deserve to be “used and crapped” on. But I have nothing right now to give you. I do not ask for your love, your kindnesses, your gifts, or your help. I do try to reciprocate the best I can. I try to be positive and focus on pleasant things. I try to “ACT” like we are “OK” when deep down I am screaming and hurting. You just want me to bounce back and put all the pieces back together. I CAN NOT do this…I do not have the feelings in me, I do not have the energy. I just exist.

It is so discouraging to see that you obviously feel differently from what you lead me to believe at home. I can not give you what I do not have. I have NOTHING to give to you or us right now. If you choose to leave, to do Plan B or Plan D, then you do so….

Ms. Dreamland: As a WW myself, I would like to reach out to you at this time.

Side note: Dreamland, don't retaliate! This is what you have been looking for. You have been questioning her thoughts, her feelings, where she is, what she wants, what she thinks, etc. Here it is! Although this could very well lead to an argument, I urge you to read and re-read what she has written. Listen to it and feel it. This could be a break through for you both. Once you can begin to listen and really hear and feel eachothers thoughts and feelings you will begin to communicate and understand eachother much better. I am speaking from experience.

Now, Mrs. I applaud you for voiceing your feelings. Although I sense a lot of anger in your post, I also see the pain. Anger is a good way to hide your pain from yourself. It seems to make things easier. I'm a real good one for that. I would venture to say that you feel rather backed into a corner right now?! I would also venture to say that it was not your BH's intention to make you feel this way.

We all have our breaking points, our point of "you can push me no further". Most of us don't really let on to what our's is until we have reached it and want to explode. This is why I urge Dreamland to sort things out and push aside the anger and gain the communication from this post.

I really think that your post says a lot. Now, if you guys can sit down and really have a heart to heart (calmly) about your feelings it could be rather productive.

Dreamland, you mentioned that you wish your WW felt certain ways that I had expressed I did with my BH - here it is. She is expressing the things I have felt in the past. Some of these things I still feel. It's hard to find the right words to express it to our BS. It's hard because it never seems that we can express it just the right way.

Now, Mrs., you have stated that you have proven untrustworthy. Yeah, we (WS) all have done that. My suggestion to your BH was that he believe in you some. Would this help you? Understand though, I don't think that he feels you demand him to trust you so much as he demands it of himself.

I remember feeling lost. Beating myself up over what I had put my DH through. I remember wishing I were dead because then I couldn't hurt anyone anymore. I remember searching for ways to say and show how very sorry I was/am and never seeming to believe I could ever portray that to him. It is possible, but it takes time. Don't be afraid to sort things out for yourself. Don't be afraid to face this shadowy corner of you. It is hard, but it is worth it.

I urge both of you to not be afraid to talk to eachother and express your feelings. Remember, some things you say may hurt, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be said. Honesty is good. Now, when it hurts, understand. A simply hug goes a long way at times like this.

I hope this helps. If there is anything else you think I can offer, please ask. I pray you guys gain something out of this. I personally think that this post could really help you if you handle it the right way. My best to you both. Take care.

Sorry Mrs. Dreamland. I come here to vent. You know when you vent you say many things that you are feeling at the particular time you are feeling them. I do not want to vent to you. I pick times to tell you how I feel about certain issues. I partly mask some of the pain I am feeling when I am around you, and I partly do not feel as bad when I am around you. I feel bad when I am away from you and have time to think about everything in my life. I try to be upbeat and positive around you. Why should I heap more pain on you by saying you make me feel bad? You know how all of this makes me feel, why should I continue dwelling on the negative when I am around you. I never did say that you make me feel horrible. The situation in our relationship makes me feel sad.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have TOO learned to balance work and family. I still do a pretty good job of managing home and kids while trying not to let work bleed into family time. I have been very sensitive to this because I always FELT it was a hot button for you….BUT HAVE ALWAYS DENIED TO ME THAT IT BOTHERED YOU.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I said "She has burried herself into her work now and herself and I am not sure how long I can take that." I meant by that, I can not take the fact you are putting work and what you want out of life ahead of everything else. You have put yourself, your kids, and work as your highest priority in life. I am no longer anywhere near the top of your priority list. I am saying I do not no how much of this (priority list) I can take. It is not just about work so please do not think it is all about work. The only time work bothers me is when you do not balance your work with family.

I do appreciate the fact you make money. It does help reduce the burden of the house and helps to pay things off. I have encouraged you to work because you wanted to work and you need work.

In my mind, I do not expect any reciprication from you now or expect you to work on our marriage. I said this in my post. What I feel is much different, I feel a need for your reciprication. I know you are going through withdrawal from the OM and this is nowhere in your mind. I love you and I want us to work again the way we used to work before children.

I have been reading and trying to understand all of this and trying to do what is right. Maybe holding back some of my feelings around you is wrong. I just did not think that you need to here that I feel bad a good 50 to 60% of the time. I tell you only occassionally how I am feeling so that you understand how I am feeling. I have told you how I feel about all of this stuff and when that changes I will tell you.

Maybe if you read all of my posts like this one below, you would see that I do have ups and downs. I find the middle ground to tell you how I feel.

Last week post

I do not share all of these with you like you do not share all of yours with me. I had no idea that you were still going through withdrawal right now, because as you said, "I am masking my feelings" and what you said in your post "I try to “ACT” like we are “OK” when deep down I am screaming and hurting."

I do not want to do a Plan B or a Plan D. What I want is to still work on improving myself and doing whatever I can to help you see something good in me, something sweet, something kind, something that you will love. I am not ready to make any decisions now. I do not want to leave. I am aware of my options and if I see no measure of hope, then I will make a decision. I still see hope in us. I love you very much.

I do not have all the right answers, I do not do all the right things, I will screw up alot, I do not know your heart, and I can not tell the future but I am trying to be a better person. I hope that you can have feelings for me again.

I do love you with all of my heart.

<small>[ July 11, 2002, 03:29 PM: Message edited by: dreamland ]</small>

Well said if I might say. I think that you responded considerately and productively. I see real potential with these two posts between you two. I hope that you both want that out of it. My DH and I found sometimes that it was easier to write to eachother. It seemed to get our feelings out a little better without being interrupted and misunderstood because of it.

Enough of my preeching. I think you guys are doing well. It takes a lot, but I know it is worth it. My best to you both - take care.

????