Not much to report on, things have been pretty quiet since my last post regarding WW's little visitation with OM and subsequent run-in with the police. She has said that she is now completely through with OM, that no one calls the police on her and expects to remain friends. Boy how I could have shoved that comment in her face with the RO, but I guess I am just too nice of a guy. Much as I want to believe that contact has ended, I have my reservations, been lied to way too many times by WW to believe it.

Since then, WW has been staying at her parents house (they are gone for a few weeks) in order to get herself together. Seems that she is doing a lot better, but it is very hard to say because she is very distant, very limited contact with me. About the only time she talks to me is when she needs something from me, little things that I always did. It does bother me because in a way I feel like she is using me (and I am allowing it) because she doesn't talk about us, the M or our future. But for now, I put up with it knowing this is a huge EN of hers and if I can fill it, hopefully it makes some +LB$.

WW does spend a lot (and I mean a lot) of time with BF, in person and on the phone/internet and that also rubs me the wrong way. BF was also involved in an A at the same time WW was (WW claims it was only and EA, but during my snooping phase, I found out it was a whole lot more, but I haven't said anything) and I guess things have started to heat up between them again. WW and I got into it a bit over this the other night when she called me and asked me what I thought of it. When the conversation started to get out of control, I simply told WW that she knows where I stand on this subject and what I would expect from BF and then said I cant talk about it anymore right now. I am seriously contemplating talking to BF's H about this because I get the feeling he knows something is going on but doesn't want to admit it.

WW is also having a hard time with the oldest 2 kids, they have absolutely no respect or trust in her anymore, which is understandable given all that has happened in the last year. They do tend to lash out at her and then she runs, cant handle the pressure. WW blames me a lot for this, saying it is my fault the kids don't respect her and that I have taken sides and have turned them against her. I usually just let it go and don't say anything, but when I do, I just ask her what she is doing to try and mend the relationship with the kids after all that has happened. WW has even suggested that I take the oldest to and have them live with me, just doesn't get it I guess.

So I just keep plodding along, staying busy with the kids and work and waiting for WW to finally start making that effort to get our M back on track. I'm doing real good at avoiding the LB's and am really beginning to express myself in a constructive way. I'm feeling a lot better about myself too and am able to really focus on things again. Work is picking up and I am working a bit of overtime which really helps the financial end of things. I'm also looking into a second job if things slow down again, just something simple that I can do a few nights a week and every other weekend. I guess I am moving forward with the hope that things work out, but also with the knowledge that WW may never be able to move past this and make a serious effort to rebuild the M.

I firmly believe that if things don't start to really turn around by DDay +1 year that I will seriously look into filing for a D. It probably wont be some big eye-opening event either, but more of a slow and subtle move towards each other again, if it happens at all. We have talked about a D before and WW says it wouldn't be fair to her because then she would lose her health insurance and have to find a job to help support herself. My response is simply that her going out and having an A and destroying our family wasn't fair either, but that sure didnt stop her in the least.

Guess I'll just wait and see, I'm not going anywhere, not in a hurry to get involved with anyone, finding happiness in what life has given me and making the most of it. Thinking back to where I was almost 1 year ago, I'll have to admit that I have "come a long way, baby"

Funny things is that in the last few weeks I have won 2 tickets to a pretty major concert, 2x dinner for 2 at local restaurants and 2 movie tickets. I've mentioned it to WW but she really doesn't seem too interested, would rather spend all her time with BF, and I am not going to say anything else about it. I've made the offer, now I'll let her decide if her H is worth spending any time with at all.

Just thought I would share this with y'all.

LHS-
Glad to hear everything has settled down again and you are doing OK. Sounds like you've got a good plan going.
What you are going to do about your two oldest kids? Counseling?
You need to use those tickets! Call a friend or relative.
Take care,
-cs

You really have come a long way baby!!!

I was thinking ... concert tickets, dinner vouchers, movie tickets .... why not "date" your kids a little bit with these goodies?

Getting away for a one-on-one special evening with each individual child (a date night) is really a great way to connect and hear what is really going on with that child.

Since your WW remains lost within herself at the moment ... and she is too out of touch with you to appreciate your efforts to connect with her ... spend your effort where it WILL be appreciated (with your kids) .

You could make a game out of this with your kids ... describe each "date" on a piece of paper and have the kids draw one of the papers out of a hat ... and then they could trade choices with each other if they want ... that might be fun.

Take care, Dad.

Pepper <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

<small>[ July 13, 2002, 08:50 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

Pepper's idea is great <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Another vote for Pepper's idea or ..... ask 2long (2 tickets, 2 dinners, etc.)!! LOL! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

LHS, U are doing good. Her blame is babble. Let it run off your shoulder. Your kids need you now and visa versa. Be there for each other.

Watch out for those other women who try to bat their lashes at you while you are out enjoying the town with your kids. Something about a man with children, attract women like a magnet! So be careful! ya hear!!

Have fun,
L.

Thanx for the replies.

I too like Pepperbands idea and I'll do it. Except for the concert, my kids say its 'old peoples' music, LOL! But I can take them to the dinners and movies individually and it will be a great time.

I realized this morning another sign that I am doing really good, I had no desire or need to get on the MB boards, was too busy with the kids having a great time and wasnt worrying about WW and what she was doing. Not that I dont like being here, you are all really great friends, but I was just not having any crises like before that I couldnt handle by myself. This weekend I took the kids to see my dad at the farm and also took the youngest 2 to a new water park that just opened (now there's a place a single guy could get into real trouble real quick!)

WW called me a few times over the weekend and we talked, nothing serious, just idle chiy-chat, but I have noticed that she is starting to talk about the future a little, hadnt head this mentioned seriously for quite a while. Also, apparently BF stood her up all weekend, they had all sorts of plans but BF spent the weekend with her H and not WW, too bad. Guess BF's arent as realiable as the ol' ball and chain, are they?

Another week is starting, hope y'all have a great one, I'm going to do my best to make the most of it.

LHS - I too agree that you are doing GREAT!!! Sounds like things may start to look up a bit.

I agree with everyone, and yourself, about having "date" night with the kids. It will help them feel important, and it will be good for all of you.

I'm glad to see your wife is touching on the future. That is a good sign and I hope it is just the beginning.

I would like to touch on the BF. I noticed no one really said anything. A lot of my problems in my marriage started when I became friends with two girls from work (twins). They had become my closest friends. If you notice, when you get married have a family, etc. your friends are limited. You learn who your real friends are and who the acquaintences are. Anyhow, my DH saw the way this was affecting our R and M, but I just couldn't. I thought they were my friends, and I enjoyed having true friends that lived near me. (My best friend since 1st grade lives in another state, and anyother friend who lives sort of close is lost in singlehood.) Anyhow, I didn't seem to have to many close friends so I refused (unknowingly) to see that they were wild and didn't care about much and was rubbing off on me at the expense of my M. It sounds to me that your WW's BF may be a problem, and not really a friend at all, but your WW is afraid to acknowledge that. Personally, I think it might be a good idea to talk to her H. You may be afraid it will affect the friendship and WW will be mad, but I think she will soon see that it wasn't you that did it but the BF that ruined their friendship. Not sure how you would go about this, but I think he has a right to know and I think you have a right to take action since it is directly affecting your M.

I hope this helps. My best to you and take care. Congrats on your wonderful progress with yourself.

LHS:

I would like to add my vote that you should tell your WW's BF's H what you know about what's going on.

I sure wish OMW had told me about my W's A with her H several years ago, when she got OM to promise he'd never see my W again, and they moved to NM. Not telling enabled the A to resume.

Tutter- Thanx for sharing that with me, I believe that my WW is in the same boat. I can see where you are coming from with the M and friends, I myself don't have too many close friends because of M, kids and work, but I seem ok with it most of the time. WW doesn't have many close friends left from the old days either, she moved from her hometown and most of her friends stayed there. BF is a party girl, heavy drinker, likes to hang out at bars, basically lives for the moment and doesnt think too much about her future. They were both actively involved in their A's at the same time and used each other as alibis, I can still remember BF's H calling me a couple of times early in the morning wondering where his W was, all I could say is "I don't know" because I really didn't. During this latest meeting between BF and her OM, WW said she asked BF if she 'should cover for her.' That comment really burned me because in my book, friends don't let friends do immoral things, guess she is still in the fog and doesn't realize how wrong this is.

I know that WW's friends have been a source of problems in the past, seems that alcohol and carousing have always been a common thread for them. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a prude by any means, but I also know that as a committed family man, I have to set some limits on what I do and don't do. Hanging out at bars until closing time, or getting so tanked at a friends house that you need help walking to the door or up the stairs just doesnt fly with me. That's fine (if you want to live that life) if you are single, but I got 4 kids looking to me for support and as a role model so I have to fly straight.

Something that just struck me this morning that further shows how far I have come: I don't 'need' WW to feel fulfilled and complete, but I still want to be with WW (when she finally comes around). I think that is a huge step for me, knowing the difference between needing and wanting. WW has told me before that OM says that "I cant live without you, I need you to continue living" At first that may sound very flattering and I am sure it is, but after a while that has got to become very suffocating. Who wants to spend the rest of their lives with a needy person, they would have to become the center of your world and everything you did would have to take this into consideration. YUCK! Or, maybe he was just using this line to keep WW nearby and she is just was too deep in the fog to see it for what it really was.

Either way, its not my problem to deal with anymore. WW knows where I stand on these issues and what I expect in order for us to move forward. That's not saying that I am going to be unreasonable if we do decide to work things out, there may be issues I will forgo, or put off for a later date, if we can agree to it. I know that I cant force WW to do anything, nor would I want to, it has to be her decision to come back to the M and do the work necessary for us to move on. But, the longer this continues, the harder it is going to be, and someday I just may say 'enough'.

As far as telling BF's H, I'm still not certain which way to go. Yes, WW did say that she has met OM, but I can not be 100% certain yet if the A is going strong or heating up again. One thing that I have learned very well is not to believe everything you hear and only half of what you see. We used to be neighbors and talked quite a bit, but I really haven't seen him for a while. I'm not going to actively look for him right now, but if he stops by or calls asking what I know, I'll tell him and offer all the advice and support I can.

Until then, I'll keep plodding along……….

Tutter- Thanx for sharing that with me, I believe that my WW is in the same boat. I can see where you are coming from with the M and friends, I myself don't have too many close friends because of M, kids and work, but I seem ok with it most of the time. WW doesn't have many close friends left from the old days either, she moved from her hometown and most of her friends stayed there. BF is a party girl, heavy drinker, likes to hang out at bars, basically lives for the moment and doesnt think too much about her future. They were both actively involved in their A's at the same time and used each other as alibis, I can still remember BF's H calling me a couple of times early in the morning wondering where his W was, all I could say is "I don't know" because I really didn't. During this latest meeting between BF and her OM, WW said she asked BF if she 'should cover for her.' That comment really burned me because in my book, friends don't let friends do immoral things, guess she is still in the fog and doesn't realize how wrong this is.

I know that WW's friends have been a source of problems in the past, seems that alcohol and carousing have always been a common thread for them. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a prude by any means, but I also know that as a committed family man, I have to set some limits on what I do and don't do. Hanging out at bars until closing time, or getting so tanked at a friends house that you need help walking to the door or up the stairs just doesnt fly with me. That's fine (if you want to live that life) if you are single, but I got 4 kids looking to me for support and as a role model so I have to fly straight.

Something that just struck me this morning that further shows how far I have come: I don't 'need' WW to feel fulfilled and complete, but I still want to be with WW (when she finally comes around). I think that is a huge step for me, knowing the difference between needing and wanting. WW has told me before that OM says that "I cant live without you, I need you to continue living" At first that may sound very flattering and I am sure it is, but after a while that has got to become very suffocating. Who wants to spend the rest of their lives with a needy person, they would have to become the center of your world and everything you did would have to take this into consideration. YUCK! Or, maybe he was just using this line to keep WW nearby and she is just was too deep in the fog to see it for what it really was.

Either way, its not my problem to deal with anymore. WW knows where I stand on these issues and what I expect in order for us to move forward. That's not saying that I am going to be unreasonable if we do decide to work things out, there may be issues I will forgo, or put off for a later date, if we can agree to it. I know that I cant force WW to do anything, nor would I want to, it has to be her decision to come back to the M and do the work necessary for us to move on. But, the longer this continues, the harder it is going to be, and someday I just may say 'enough'.

As far as telling BF's H, I'm still not certain which way to go. Yes, WW did say that she has met OM, but I can not be 100% certain yet if the A is going strong or heating up again. One thing that I have learned very well is not to believe everything you hear and only half of what you see. We used to be neighbors and talked quite a bit, but I really haven't seen him for a while. I'm not going to actively look for him right now, but if he stops by or calls asking what I know, I'll tell him and offer all the advice and support I can.

Until then, I'll keep plodding along……….

LHS-
You are doing so well. I can't wait until I feel as calm and sure of myself as you sound. I think it is a good sign that WW is calling you to chat.
I understand about the BF's influence. I think that my WH has allowed himself to be influenced by his roommate. I have said something to WH about it and it wasn't well-received; however, if it might end the A for good I might be tempted to say something.
Take care,
CS

CS- Good to see that you are still around, I knew you wouldnt leave us. Your part of the family, whether you like it or not <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> . Its taken a long time and a lot of had work on my part to get to this point, but it really does feel good. So many times I just wanted to give up and go crazy, you know, live the life our WS's are living, but I just couldnt, I had to fight the good fight, and I think it is starting to pay off, finally.

Had another interseting conversation with WW tonight. She was complaining how D-1 is giving her such a hard time and I should have a talk with her about respecting her mom. I asked her what she is doing about it and she didnt have an answer, then she says I should take her and have her live with me. My reply is that no one is splitting up my kids, no one at all. She started to argue the point and I simply told her that we should let the judge decide where the kids will live, pretty much ended that conversation.

If she would only admit the mistakes she has made and start to make amends, things would be so much easier for her. I have been standing right here the whole time waiting, offering her my help, letting her know I still love her and yet she doesnt want to move in this direction. She even had to sell all the stock she aquired while working, it was supposed to be set aside for retirement, so now she has nothing to fall back on. I know the financial part of this is really wearing her down.

Just have to keep waiting, still cant believe that she is throwing away so much, and I know she isnt really happy right now, I can see it in her eyes.