"RAT MEAT???" ROFL!!! I just spewed my coffee when I read that!! lolol

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by MelodyLane:
<strong>"RAT MEAT???" ROFL!!! I just spewed my coffee when I read that!! lolol</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yeah, 2L does get carried away with this naming thing..."OMW's H" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> is another example...LOL!!!

Speaking of 2L...where are 'ya?!?!?!?

<small>[ July 20, 2002, 06:40 PM: Message edited by: Spacecase ]</small>

It's the darn busy weekend...and I have family over. But just QUICKLY (and without getting completely up to date) I like the revised letter MUCH BETTER! No dealing with the hows...just the why's. I ALWAYS think the letter is more impactful when "good times" memories are thrown in.

Anyway, I will get back in more length later!

Hey, SC. I'm here!

Still in my office. Was on the phone, then had to go scarf a couple cheap burgers to get something to process.

Pepper was kind enough to call after you did. Cheered me up right nice. Then I called my MIL, and I think I'm going to stay in the guest house tonight, but I'll wait till 9 or 10 to go there. If I get tired, I'll take me a nap here before that.

Yeah, I don't want to contact any OWs or anthing like that, but I am kind of miffed at Rat Meat, more than usual perhaps. MIL is worried that WW is going to make herself ill with all this anguish, but I tried to reassure her by suggesting they just keep an eye on her for now. I think she's probably doing okay, though she's doing lots of "busy stuff" today to keep from having to face consequences.

I think you're right, SC, I'll have to talk to her SOMETIME to arrange to get my stuff and decide who stays home and who goes, that kind of thing.

Gonna be around for posting for a few hours, at least, but I'm also going to try to get caught up on some overdo tasks here at work in the process.

Darn! I just realized that I've got this great cinema display LCD monitor on my computer, but NO MOVIES! But then, that would probably be a misuse of corporate equipment... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Melodylane:

""RAT MEAT???" ROFL!!! I just spewed my coffee when I read that!! lolol"

What the he!! are you doing drinking coffee in the middle of the evening? Didn't your mom tell you it'd keep you awake at night?

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Yeah, Rat Meat was a holdover insult from my college days. This guy takes the "cake", if you will.

You're going to Plan B now are saying you're going to live on the property? Is that really a Plan B? I think she'll like that even better. She'll know right where you are and will be able to have all the contact with Rat Meat she wants without you to "interfere." Will that truly insulate you from further hurt? Will you be able to work on yourself or will you still be focused on what is going on in her life?

I also think it unwise to live with female co-worker. That one could come back to bite you in the backsides.

It seems you're waivering a bit. If you Plan B you've got to Plan B.

I posted before and you didn't respond so I know my advice may not be wanted but I've noticed your posts are very frequent and large in number. You need a break...physically and mentally.

amhurt:

"You're going to Plan B now are saying you're going to live on the property? Is that really a Plan B?"

You should see the property. It would be possible to stay away from each other rather easily while on it. Going up and down the street would be the hard part. Until I know which one of us will stay at home with my son, I'm not excited about spending 75-100 bucks a night for a dive motel room. I can stay away from my W for the next few days, at least, for free, possibly for long term, too. And I'd be near my son.

"I think she'll like that even better."

I really don't care whether she gets tickled pink by the idea.

"She'll know right where you are and will be able to have all the contact with Rat Meat she wants without you to "interfere.""

She knows where I am now. She'll contact Rat Meat no matter what I feel about it. I haven't interfered to date since she opened the hotmail account. Can't, in fact.

"Will that truly insulate you from further hurt? Will you be able to work on yourself or will you still be focused on what is going on in her life?"

I'll probably worry about what she's doing for a while, like J.R. did. If I don't feel insulated from hurt from her, I'll simply move farther away. I may know that in the next few days.

"I also think it unwise to live with female co-worker. That one could come back to bite you in the backsides."

None of you folks have seen this coworker. I don't want to insult her, because she's a good person, but frankly, she could go lion hunting with a switch.

"It seems you're waivering a bit. If you Plan B you've got to Plan B."

I can see your concern, and believe me I share it. If I feel like I'm waivering, I'll move farther away.

"I posted before and you didn't respond so I know my advice may not be wanted but I've noticed your posts are very frequent and large in number."

I saw your post, and honestly thought I had responded to it. It was good stuff.

"You need a break...physically and mentally."

THIS is abolutely TRUE!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by 2long:
<strong>

What the he!! are you doing drinking coffee in the middle of the evening? Didn't your mom tell you it'd keep you awake at night?

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Yeah, Rat Meat was a holdover insult from my college days. This guy takes the "cake", if you will.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">2Long, it's Starbucks Sumatra Decaf, yum yum. Yes, I figured the OM well deserved his nickname. Very creative! lol

And what, pray tell, is wrong with a good cup of coffee at night...having one now, as a matter of fact, REAL Colombian my dad just brought for me...good stuff! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hey Melodylane and SC:

Nothing wrong with a good crock of crud from time to time. Heck, I drink it by the bucket, myself (tmcm will be JEALOUS!). On the other hand, nothing beats a good 4 or 5 glasse of a good cheap wine, RIGHT OUT OF THE BOX, to mellow my sorry a$$ out for a good night's sleep...

Which is what I'm going to do!

I've got to get up and head out early, before spousal unit "finds" me. not that she'll come looking.

Talk to you tomorrow.

2long,

You can probably guess Space and I as well as others will be so relieved that you are calling the experts!

It has been uncanny to listen to SH's expertise. His insite is almost beyond belief as a result of his narrow focus. I have gone from chills/shivers all over to numbness as he "hits the target" time and again.

I have wanted to record the conversations; because although I am sitting there notebook and pen in hand; at times I haven't been able to move to write. He patiently repeats himself so that I can get it down.

Since my H introduced us to MB he is onboard; thank God! I was worried in the beginning because the process SH requires of the WS in the recovery plan is so profound that I was afraid we would lose H to the process. However we have many more issues to deal with before we're home free. "Version of the truth" for one. Sigh..

It has been incredible how kind SH is to the WS; and his ability to build rapport is remarkable. My wish for you is that as you make your way through this process; your W will get on board and join you with counseling with the Harleys. She may need to be in alot of pain first, as she realizes what all she has to lose.

Someone posted recently about how arrogant your W has been. Seems like she is keeping up a tough front; but when she cracks I'll bet it won't be pretty. She has alot to learn and with her unwillingness so far it seems like it will take a hard fall for her before she hits bottom.

Good Luck, CSue

hi 2Long. I've been reading your thread and I don't have any advice that you haven't already been given.

I just want to say that your W has no idea how lucky she is to have a husband like you, willing to fight for your love and your marriage. Stay strong and keep your humour. You're in my prayers.

CSue:

"You can probably guess Space and I as well as others will be so relieved that you are calling the experts!"

I think that I am, too. A bit apprehensive about how he'll set things up, but I guess we start with me and then go from there.

"It has been uncanny to listen to SH's expertise. His insite is almost beyond belief as a result of his narrow focus. I have gone from chills/shivers all over to numbness as he "hits the target" time and again."

This is the opposite of what I've felt with Kaiser. They really do just "listen" to us, maybe ask a few questions, but there's been absolutely NO direction that I've been able to discern, and NO effort to deal directly with the A and overcoming it. In effect, with them I feel that they're simply placating my W's desire to maintain the R with Rat Meat at some level and "pretending" to deal with our M problems. It's been obvious to me that we can't make progress until we shoot the elephant. My W has even said that the elephant "will always be in the room" because "you can't expect me to stop caring for <Rat Meat>". Yada, yada, yada.

"I have wanted to record the conversations; because although I am sitting there notebook and pen in hand; at times I haven't been able to move to write. He patiently repeats himself so that I can get it down."

I'm going to have to learn how to write faster than I do! Again, with Kaiser, the "profound insight" moments are few and far enough between that there's been no reason, so far as I'm concerned, to take notes or even to remember much of what's been said.

"Since my H introduced us to MB he is onboard; thank God! I was worried in the beginning because the process SH requires of the WS in the recovery plan is so profound that I was afraid we would lose H to the process."

And for this reason, I've been apprehensive. Last time I checked, remember, my W thought MB was "simplistic and stupid" so I haven't been able to get her to read anything (then I learned NOT to educate her anyway). I don't know if she'll talk to SH or not. If not, won't it just wind up being another IC for me? I don't know. At least the method they use to C allows for a change down the line, so that if/when she'll talk to them, we can make those arrangements. None of our other Cs will change the way they work - ICs for each of us, not both, MC not for each of us alone. Frustrating.

"However we have many more issues to deal with before we're home free. "Version of the truth" for one. Sigh.."

Same here, but we're also a lot farther from working on the problem than you.

"It has been incredible how kind SH is to the WS; and his ability to build rapport is remarkable. My wish for you is that as you make your way through this process; your W will get on board and join you with counseling with the Harleys."

I hope you are right. I need SOMETHING to happen.

"She may need to be in alot of pain first, as she realizes what all she has to lose."

I believe she will need to feel this. I hate the thought of not being able to help her with the pain, but that's the reason I had to leave - she was transfering her pain into anger toward me.

"Someone posted recently about how arrogant your W has been. Seems like she is keeping up a tough front; but when she cracks I'll bet it won't be pretty. She has alot to learn and with her unwillingness so far it seems like it will take a hard fall for her before she hits bottom."

I think so.

TD:

Thanks for your vote of confidence in me. It helps. I just wish I could feel self-confident all the time. It's hard.

2long
Sorry but one last comment...about living with the female co-worker. It doesn't matter what she looks like. If your w's attorney tells the judge that you're living with a female co-worker and infers that the two of you have a relationship, it may taint the judges perception of what truly was the situation.

I know that when H and I met before the judge on an Order of Protection matter, he talked very harshly to my H and told him that he never wanted to see his face in his court again. It even scared his slime bucket attorney (well respected among other slime buckets)! I think that if the slime bucket had the opportunity to tell the judge that I was living with a man-even though it was someone I would never be interested in-the judge's perception of me would have changed his attitude toward the both of us.

You never know what you might have to face...even what your children may have to face. I'd keep myself as "clean-looking" as possible.

Well, amhurt may be right.

I spent the night in our guest house last night. Had a long talk with my MIL about what's been going on. She spends time with my SIL, who lives a couple miles from our house. My SIL has been helping us deal with the insurance company, and is a tough, no-nonsense personality. Well, there's always been a little friction between her and my W, because they're both very strong-willed, but I had no idea just how perceptive my SIL has been. She basically has guessed the my W has been having an A. Thankfully, my MIL hasn't told her any details yet, because we both agreed that it was up to my W right now to decide who and how to tell what's happened.

Leaving the house this morning, I had thought I would get out before my W was up. I was wrong. As I was driving down the hill, my W was coming up in her car. She started to slow down, and waved as I waved, but I kept going. That was hard. I suppose I should have stopped to say something to her, but I really didn't feel ready to.

So, I'll have to think about where I should stay tonight. Either figure this is a transition period into plan B, between leaving Friday night and getting with SH and a family mediator to work out the details, then starting plan B (or not, if SH thinks I'm really not ready for some reason). If it's a transition period, maybe I should continue to stay in the guest house for now. If I should figure on hard-core plan B NOW, then I should stay in a hotel until I've talked to SH and the mediator.

I don't know. Any thoughts?

CSue:

"You can probably guess Space and I as well as others will be so relieved that you are calling the experts!"

I think that I am, too. A bit apprehensive about how he'll set things up, but I guess we start with me and then go from there.

"It has been uncanny to listen to SH's expertise. His insite is almost beyond belief as a result of his narrow focus. I have gone from chills/shivers all over to numbness as he "hits the target" time and again."

This is the opposite of what I've felt with Kaiser. They really do just "listen" to us, maybe ask a few questions, but there's been absolutely NO direction that I've been able to discern, and NO effort to deal directly with the A and overcoming it. In effect, with them I feel that they're simply placating my W's desire to maintain the R with Rat Meat at some level and "pretending" to deal with our M problems. It's been obvious to me that we can't make progress until we shoot the elephant. My W has even said that the elephant "will always be in the room" because "you can't expect me to stop caring for <Rat Meat>". Yada, yada, yada.

"I have wanted to record the conversations; because although I am sitting there notebook and pen in hand; at times I haven't been able to move to write. He patiently repeats himself so that I can get it down."

I'm going to have to learn how to write faster than I do! Again, with Kaiser, the "profound insight" moments are few and far enough between that there's been no reason, so far as I'm concerned, to take notes or even to remember much of what's been said.

"Since my H introduced us to MB he is onboard; thank God! I was worried in the beginning because the process SH requires of the WS in the recovery plan is so profound that I was afraid we would lose H to the process."

And for this reason, I've been apprehensive. Last time I checked, remember, my W thought MB was "simplistic and stupid" so I haven't been able to get her to read anything (then I learned NOT to educate her anyway). I don't know if she'll talk to SH or not. If not, won't it just wind up being another IC for me? I don't know. At least the method they use to C allows for a change down the line, so that if/when she'll talk to them, we can make those arrangements. None of our other Cs will change the way they work - ICs for each of us, not both, MC not for each of us alone. Frustrating.

"However we have many more issues to deal with before we're home free. "Version of the truth" for one. Sigh.."

Same here, but we're also a lot farther from working on the problem than you.

"It has been incredible how kind SH is to the WS; and his ability to build rapport is remarkable. My wish for you is that as you make your way through this process; your W will get on board and join you with counseling with the Harleys."

I hope you are right. I need SOMETHING to happen.

"She may need to be in alot of pain first, as she realizes what all she has to lose."

I believe she will need to feel this. I hate the thought of not being able to help her with the pain, but that's the reason I had to leave - she was transfering her pain into anger toward me.

"Someone posted recently about how arrogant your W has been. Seems like she is keeping up a tough front; but when she cracks I'll bet it won't be pretty. She has alot to learn and with her unwillingness so far it seems like it will take a hard fall for her before she hits bottom."

I think so.

amhurt:

Good points. Actually, I don't think the coworker would have room for me anyway. I think I'd rather stay at my own house, away from my W, than that kind of deal.

Thanks for the insight.

I did it!! I filled out the email form on the Counseling Center page! Hopefully, I can get an appointment this week.

I cried while filling out the comments section.

My cell phone rang, was ID'd as my W, and I was going to answer it, but it stopped ringing and there's no message.

I want OUR life back!!! <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

You will. It's going to take time...but you'll get there!!!

I FINALLY got His Needs Her needs completely finished (I'm only reading 4 books or so at one time!!!). The last chapter was on affairs. I was surprised with some of the information there! Even after hanging out for almost 3 years on sites such as this one (and the unfortunate hands on experience)...there's always more to learn!

Anyway, one of the points was that the WS will always make a play to try to keep the relationship with the OP. ALWAYS. What your wife is doing is completely normal by that definition! So hang in there...