"I'm doing what J.R. did early in his plan B, I'm "following" my W around!!"

Well... I wouldn't say I was following her around... I was interested in what was going on with her for a while... I think I stuck to my guns pretty well for the most part - with a few exceptions. Those exceptions are what I now consider opportunities to be "reminders" of who I've become (a real CATCH <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ), yet to still maintain my distance, thereby letting her know I'm not backing down.

In the words of Mr.Petty:

No I won't back down,
No I won't back down,
You can stand me up at the gates of h3ll,
No I won't back down

J.R.

No offense intended. I don't really follow my W either, but I do want to know what's going on with her. ...and it's only been a day and a half!

2L; a comment about using Steve/Jenn and your W not participating.

Even if she does not, Steve can guide you well in repairing your marriage by yourself. You CAN do it alone...many people have.
Naturally it's harder, takes longer, more effort, but it CAN be done.
I think your W will come on-board at least to talk to them at some point. Remember mine had dumped 2 MCs before we got to Harley, and she's stuck to it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by 2long:
<strong>Well, amhurt may be right.

I spent the night in our guest house last night. Had a long talk with my MIL about what's been going on. She spends time with my SIL, who lives a couple miles from our house. My SIL has been helping us deal with the insurance company, and is a tough, no-nonsense personality. Well, there's always been a little friction between her and my W, because they're both very strong-willed, but I had no idea just how perceptive my SIL has been. She basically has guessed the my W has been having an A. Thankfully, my MIL hasn't told her any details yet, because we both agreed that it was up to my W right now to decide who and how to tell what's happened.

Leaving the house this morning, I had thought I would get out before my W was up. I was wrong. As I was driving down the hill, my W was coming up in her car. She started to slow down, and waved as I waved, but I kept going. That was hard. I suppose I should have stopped to say something to her, but I really didn't feel ready to.

So, I'll have to think about where I should stay tonight. Either figure this is a transition period into plan B, between leaving Friday night and getting with SH and a family mediator to work out the details, then starting plan B (or not, if SH thinks I'm really not ready for some reason). If it's a transition period, maybe I should continue to stay in the guest house for now. If I should figure on hard-core plan B NOW, then I should stay in a hotel until I've talked to SH and the mediator.

I don't know. Any thoughts?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">2L; Stay in the guest house for now. Prepare your Plan B details, talk to Steve, and make more permanent arrangements after that.
No need to be so anal about a "pristine Plan B" quite yet. Remember you have not begun Plan B until you deliver the letter, and that'll take a few days.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by 2long:
<strong>H4F:

Question. Do I stay away until I've talked to SH? Do I go home and agree not to talk to W? I don't think so, but now that I'm going through the emotional upheaval that I've read about EVERYBODY else going through at this stage, I can't supress my doubts about what I'm doing!

But, my question now is: Should I send my W an email telling her that I've requested an appointment at MB, and would she like to participate when they give me a time? Or, should I do this by myself first, then see about involving her when SH says?

Thanques,</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">2L; you are OK for now with the arrangements you have at the guest house. Stay out of sight and avoid contact with WW if possible, but don't freak if there is contact. Be civil, but short and to the point. Let her know this is serious through your actions, not words.

Talk to steve and he'll guide you on when/how to engage your W. No need to let her know now.

Relax. You're doing fine. In a few days all these uncertainties will start clearing up.

SC:

That's what I've decided I'll do. Thanks.

I've had time to reflect. Of course, I don't need to be agonizing over what my W is thinking, but what I HAVE noticed about what I'M thinking is that not having her to face every day for hours is making MY thought processes more efficient.

I'm still very sad that it's come to this, and part of that sadness IS the realization that she may never want to give up Rat Meat, and truly MAY BE willing to be alone. This is the ONLY way she'll get to see what she'll be missing by making that choice. But I'm still sad. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Okay:

I've called MIL and D and told them I'll be staying in the guest house for the next few days.

My D told me that my W was planning to invite me to breakfast at the rental this morning, and that's why she waved at me to stop. I'm glad I didn't stop.

MIL and D seem to be doing okay. I'll see my D at the guest house over the next couple of evenings to chat and visit before she leaves on Thursday. Maybe get my son to come over once in a while, too.

Stuff like that.

SC:

Your comments about me being able to work on my M with the Harleys, even if my W will not, are very encouraging. I will certainly try, whatever my W does.

Thanques,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by 2long:
<strong>And that's WHY he's qualified - he's 4 years old!!

"Why, when I was your age, we had to get up off the couch, walk over to the TV, ROTATE the tuner, stand there and wait to see if it's what we wanted to watch, THEN walk all the way back to the couch (by way of the beer in the fridge) and sit down!"</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">They don't even believe this stuff...my kids DO NOT believe me when I tell them TV was once in black & white.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

SC:

I can remember one AWFUL night when I was a kid and my dad was replacing tubes in the 1954 Westinghouse B&W TV we had. Yep, he bought the darned thing when I was ONE YEAR OLD. That night, a new episode of The Flintstones was on TV, and my sisters all went down the street to their friends house to watch it. I remember first thinking, well, he'll be done in time, to thinking' c'mon dad, FIX IT, to crying my eyes out because I had to go to bed at 7:30 and hadn't seen ANY cartoons AT ALL.

Life is hard.

2long
I'm going to comment on something noone else seemed to mention and I think is very important...that cell phone call that you didn't answer...wow...I think Plan B will be very effective. Also the breakfast thing adds to the mix. You did the right thing by not answering!

While I know the comment about cloning herself was cruel beyond belief, it says that she doesn't want to lose you...albeit she still wants dirty, filthy, disgusting, low life, scum bag rat meat. (Sorry I'm quite opinionated) I remember when I was where you are now. When I look back on it I wonder why I was in such a panic. Although H's words and actions were horribly cruel, I still knew down in my heart that this was where he wanted to be. If I had it to do over again, I would have fretted less, prayed more, and had faith. I know, I know...easily said.

I'm still of the belief that you need not live near her. Just one day of being gone and she calls and prepares breakfast. Just think how she'll feel when she doesn't know where you are or what you're doing.

As far as knowing what she's up to...don't you already know that...she's busy doing "stuff" to keep herself from thinking. I think with you gone and out of sight, there'll not be enought "stuff" for her to do to keep her wondering. What she's got to "think" about now is that dirty, filthy, disgusting, low life, scum bag rat meat. You're around and she doesn't have to "think" about you. Get what I'm trying to say.

She's got a 12 year old fog to break through but you've Plan A'd wonderfully... That's the foundation you've well established. It's time to go on to the next task at hand. If you back down now, it'll the much more difficult the next time you implement the beginning of Plan B. I just don't think you can take anymore.

I know it'll be expensive to live elsewhere..but what's money compared to your marriage? Can't take it with you. Stop contributing to your retirement for awhile. You can find a reasonable priced place if you're resourceful.

oh, and about television and the remote. When I was a kid, we only had 3 channels. The third one would come in only if it wasn't raining and the aluminun foil was shaped just so. So getting up to change the channel was no big deal...

When my daughter was small (16 years old now) she asked me if they had color when I was little. I asked her why she would ask such a question and her reply was..Oh I thought it was black and gray, you know like those old movies on television. Today, she asked if I listened to Frank Sinatra in high school...I'm 48...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by amhurt:
<strong>2long
I'm going to comment on something noone else seemed to mention and I think is very important...that cell phone call that you didn't answer...wow...I think Plan B will be very effective. Also the breakfast thing adds to the mix. You did the right thing by not answering!

While I know the comment about cloning herself was cruel beyond belief, it says that she doesn't want to lose you...albeit she still wants dirty, filthy, disgusting, low life, scum bag rat meat. (Sorry I'm quite opinionated) I remember when I was where you are now. When I look back on it I wonder why I was in such a panic. Although H's words and actions were horribly cruel, I still knew down in my heart that this was where he wanted to be. If I had it to do over again, I would have fretted less, prayed more, and had faith. I know, I know...easily said.

I'm still of the belief that you need not live near her. Just one day of being gone and she calls and prepares breakfast. Just think how she'll feel when she doesn't know where you are or what you're doing.

As far as knowing what she's up to...don't you already know that...she's busy doing "stuff" to keep herself from thinking. I think with you gone and out of sight, there'll not be enought "stuff" for her to do to keep her wondering. What she's got to "think" about now is that dirty, filthy, disgusting, low life, scum bag rat meat. You're around and she doesn't have to "think" about you. Get what I'm trying to say.

She's got a 12 year old fog to break through but you've Plan A'd wonderfully... That's the foundation you've well established. It's time to go on to the next task at hand. If you back down now, it'll the much more difficult the next time you implement the beginning of Plan B. I just don't think you can take anymore.

I know it'll be expensive to live elsewhere..but what's money compared to your marriage? Can't take it with you. Stop contributing to your retirement for awhile. You can find a reasonable priced place if you're resourceful.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree entirely with Amhurt. She has very, very quickly shown signs of panic. She never believed you'd go, and probably even less over what she percieves as the "minor skirmish" that occured the other night about the cloning.

Stand firm, 2L! Stand your ground; you've gotten her attention in a way we may not have dreamed was possible. Be kind, be gentle, but be firm. Absolutely firm. In a few days you'll have all your Plan B ducks in a row, and she will then know it's for real.

And if what she's shown up to now is an indication, she may be closer that we've thought to having to rethink some of her positions.

We're here for you!

2long,

Have time for just a quick hit-and-run, but wanted to comment on your upcoming appointment wiht the Harleys.

They are on central standard time so you can call early from the west coast. I recommend you call first thing in the morning.

I feel the 1st appointment should be just you. You have much to cover in order to bring him up to speed. He will be concise and tell you exactly what you need to do to save your marriage. No more amateur hour. However he may think you should see IC...for you! I think I recall that your IC has worked well for you; and you can't beat the price.

Personally I like that you are in the guest house and your family including W knows you are there. I especially like it for your children. I like the fact that they have your nearby presence to count on. As others have said; you are not in Plan B yet...

Your W sounds alot like me with the staying busy stuff. The busier she is the MORE she is running scared. She's probably been doing it her whole life. It's a good coping strategy unless you're too good at it and it works for awhile. She has to run faster and harder as time goes on to stay ahead of the demons. The more successful she is at it; the harder it is when they finally catch-up. And after 12+ years of running; she has h3ll to pay.

My opinion is that she will have to be really scared of losing you and destroying your family before she will be willing to talk to SH. And in that case the timing of your "taking a stand" couldn't have been more perfect. She knows you are serious and for crying out loud; she needs to at the very least learn to stop saying this hurtful stuff. She is responsible for that!!!

I'll respond more later when I have a minute! Just wanted to stop in quickly to check on you. CSue

I just talked to SC about this, so I'm going to post it here for feedback.

This email from my W (preceded by a phone call to tell me to read and respond) came a little while ago. Understandably, it derailed any efforts on my part to remain focused on work.

W: "please try and make me believe that this isn't about the fact that I just didn't want to have sex with you the other night. Tell me that there really is so little between us that an occaional question to my good friend, fellow (job title) and best (specialty) I know could tear us apart, THAT YOU ARE NOT AS INSECURE, SELF CENTERED, UNCARING AS YOU CONTINUE TO LOOK TO ME NOW. $h!t, I must have been blind in love all these years, really thought you were a lot more of a wonderful person than this behavior would lead me to believe"

So, I had started to write a lengthy reply, but thankfully SC stopped me. She asked on the phone for me to tell her whether she should pack up and leave. I sent a quick email telling her that before I respond to the email, to please stay.

I'm thinking of this kind of reply:

2long: First thing I want to say is that I love you far more than you know. I have been struggling to understand how to correct the things I've done wrong all these years that caused us to grow apart. I have had to come to grips with the shocking discovery of your A, and the intense anguish that has caused me. I had hoped that you would understand just how truly painful it has been for me knowing that you wish to continue a friendship ....yada yada yada.

Folks, I can't continue. I'm just to messed up about this. Can anybody offer a better suggested response?

<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Really really REALLY brief and loving. Something like this:

Dearest W,

I love you so very much. Every breath I take hurts right now. My body and soul ache for you. I cannot suffer your divided love. It hurts too much.
Love... your 2Long

~~~~~~~

Good luck Kid

Pepper <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Hey kid~~~~

Good news is:

SHE is CRAZY about you!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I can sense it! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

You're gonna be OK ... Hang in there Mister! Do not cave in right now. She needs to feel your anguish. She wants to punish you (make this your fault) because she doesn't want to feel your anguish (because she is responsible for it) so she's tryin' to blow smoke up your [censored]!

Fog /// smoke ... whatever.

Wear your MB goggles kid.

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Dear WW;
The minor incidents to which you refer about making love and the occasional contact with your colleague, were but the straw that broke the camel's back.
For many months I have been struggling to work on being a better husband, to understand and correct the flaws that I now know I've had. At the same time, I have tried to convey to you the very deep wound that discovering your relationship with <OM> has caused me, as well as the enormous damage it has done to our M and our R. Your statements the other night, and those you make in your email clearly indicate that you do not understand these feelings, nor comprehend the damage done to us as a couple.
WW, I love you more than you'll ever know, and this situation has saddened me far more than you'll ever imagine. It is for this reason that I chose to leave the other night, so as to avoid what would have inevitably become an unwanted argument.
You must do what you feel you must do, as I have for now chosen to do myself, hoping that we may find the way to be together again, as we should be, giving happiness and love to each other.

Don't mention her A ... Don't mention your faults and your mis-steps in the past ... or HER mis-steps in the past .... JUST HOW DEVASTATED YOU ARE .... Be willing to only discuss your hurting heart right now. This is the only topic open .... NO R talk. YOU ... your heart. Your ache.

Pepper <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

<small>[ July 21, 2002, 07:38 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

Your wife sounds like a very intelligent woman. She knows how to play the game. She has taken the high road and is trying to make you look like a jerk who doesn't appreciate the fact that she loves you. She knows how to play you. If I can offer you some advice. Get a P.I. and get all the evidence before having a showdown with her. Otherwise she is going to outmaneuver you and make you look like a silly fool. As long as she sees that you don't have any real physical evidence she can take the high road. Just my opinion