2L;
You're getting the very best advice from the "old-timers". Use it.

Okay, everybody:

VERY good advice, and I'm NOT disregarding it by posting this draft reply. I do want to open the door for her to consider Cing with SH with me, and since it's a week and a half away, I do feel like I need to communicate in a limited way via email so that she knows my stance is firm and that she still has the security of our home to stay in (that *I'm* not going to be the one to break up our family, her CHOICE and her unwillingness to MAKE IT SOON will).

Anyway, let me know what you think. Perhaps I should just eliminate the first paragraph and only send the second.

2long:
"W: I do appreciate that you are trying. But while you are trying, I still hurt. Please understand that I have NOT given up on US. Far from it. But it needs to be clear that I can no longer abide by this desire of yours to maintain a relationship, any kind of relationship, with Rat Meat. I am trying to preserve the love I have for you until such time as you can decide how you want your life to recover after the tragedy of the past 12 years.

I have scheduled an appointment with the Marriage Builders phone counseling service. I am tired of the infrequent and ineffective conseling we have gotten from Kaiser. My appointment will be by phone for Thursday, the 1st of August, at 6:00am. I would love it if you would be willing to participate in the call, but please do not feel pressured to do so. They counsel individually and couples. They counsel couples in turns, so that each person gets a one-on-one period of time to speak with the counselor alone.

-2long.

I like how it sounds.

"I still hurt" .... that is your response. The rest will open the door to her opinions .... Screw her opinions about MB, Kaiser, everything else. Let her come to you. I vote a 3 word reply. I think you need SH to beat some sense into you first! (sorry, pretty harsh)

My alternate response is 2 words: "I hurt".

(((HUGS)))

Pepper <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Well shoot, I answered once already and it did that whole "you didn't fill in your name" routine on me.

But...now I get to respond to your latest!

My opinion...skip it for now. Leave it atleat a while longer. LET HER SWEAT a little more over what your thoughts/plans are.

2long, she's in panic mode. You are taking away the "choice" she wants (Passionate Marriage, 2 choice dilemma). She will fight and fog and threaten to try to regain that choice of having both of you. By you leaving...it threatens that. Now she stands to have one (you) or none (because no WAY will Rat Meat be an actual ONLY choice...everyone knows Rat Meat is only good as a side dish <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> ).

Let her stew in her own juices for a while.

Be patient....be strong...and DON'T BITE when she throws this stuff at you. She knows DARN WELL this isn't about not getting sex, or you not understanding love. She just doesn't want to face the inevitable pain of her choices. She doesn't realize...there is pain either way.

Pepper:

Point taken! (but I'll try to negotiate a few more words anyway, you know me!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )

On the other hand, how about a one-word response? Like Spock, in the "Horta" episode of Star Trek:

"PAIN!!!" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Well if we are set on it, why use a word? How bout:

"AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAUGHHH!"

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

H4F:

I know. It's amazing to see that everybody really does come down to the "no reply" mode as being the best thing for me to do right now. Let her come to me.

At the same time (and you all know how this feels) I have this almost overpowering desire to go to her and hold her tight, and cry with her, and try to help... ...and then I realize that is exactly what I HAVE BEEN doing for the past 6 months, and it's gotten me exactly nowhere (though I'm losing weight again!)

That's right...and no change in the dance...means you'll get the same ol same ol.

So you're playing this game a different way now. YOUR WAY!

Weight loss eh? Rub it in why dontcha!! LOL!!

And ... the almost overpowering desire to focus on her is to avoid focusing on ---> yourself.

If you expect W to do the difficult deep soul search that is her responsibility... you've got to be willing to do the same!

Let her come to you. If you build it ... she will come. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Hey folks, how's this?

She sent me another email this morning, talking only about the house. Found some damage she thinks that the contractor may have missed. I doubt it, but I replied saying that I would talk to him and see if he's aware of it when he calls today about the roofer's schedule.

I signed it, "love 2long"

This way, I'm completely off the hook for replying to the other message (not that you guys would have let me FEEL on the hook to reply!) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

lol

Build what? *Gets the do it yourself WS trap kit, some board, steel, and tools*

Ok I think you should be all set now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

There was another email yesterday from her that I completely missed, due to my bowels allready being in a complete uproar by the time I read it.

She said that my sister called, and she gave her my cell number. Said that she didn't tell my sister what was going on, that it was up to me. My sister did call me, but about my D leaving for London this week. I didn't say anything about our sitch, because I'm not ready to.

I didn't reply to my W's email about that.

I think it was good you didn't see that e-mail. By now she must be wondering what is going on with you and what your intentions are. I hope she realizes she brought this on herself. Oh well.

Alostwife:

And that's the point. She really has brought this on herself, AND our family. I don't feel like I should have to explain it to them. It's HER construct, let her figure out how to explain/justify it. Maybe THEN she'll realize (once again, because she said she did this in November) how destructive this R with Rat Meat is to her, to our family, and even to the little rats (rug or otherwise) over in NM <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

She's been able to ignore the responsibility of it, because she thought I could tolerate her private email with Rat Meat. Now she knows that I can't.

2L;
I agree that your response should be a one-liner.

AND I think you should first have your own individual session with MB, and then, based on their suggestions, invite (or not) you W for later session(s).

IMHO, of course.

SC:

Okay. It's just that end of next week is a long ways off, and a lot can happen by then (like, I would have never thought I'd get up around 1800 posts, fully 100 new ones, in just 5 or so days!).

Just trying to consider my options. Since I'm not in an "official" plan B yet, and since she's still guessing what our R is at the moment, I want to keep this "house talk" going on the off chance that she'll send me an email saying "you know? You're right. Let's grind Rat Meat into some nice Rat Meat Sausages and have us a BBQ!" (for you Houstoners, I'm picturing some nice, brown, squishy things, like the Boudin sandwiches they serve up at PeTe's, across from Ellington Field!).

Way to go, 2long! glad to hear you have the appointment with Steve. I guess it can't hurt to let her know about the appointment and give her the option to join in. Do so in sparse words- I sense in your communication that you tend to try to explain yourself alot, perhaps hoping that words will convince your wife.

I agree with others' interpretation of her e-mails- she is trying to deflect blame onto you. It is a favorite tactic to WS. When I intercepted a graphic message from OW to my H on his cell phone, he immediately played the "invading my privacy" (how dare you!)card. I responded, I should be able to listen to any message to you, look through any letter to you, and not find something that would break my heart. Then he tried to blame it on her. "She's never done this before, I have no idea what got into her".. I said, "obviously you have behaved in such a way that this woman feels like her message will be welcomed. Or else you should be calling her to say, 'How dare you leave such a message for me? Don't you know I am married with children. Never call me again.' "

Don't be confused by the babble as Orchid says. Focus on the one thing you know- NO marriage has room in it for a third party.

All the stuff she writes- trying to blame you for having no respect for not informing her of your decision to move out- is a feeble attempt to deflect attention from the real issue. The lack of respect she is showing you by continuing her affair. Which she is doing by the way.

Some WS are forced to continue working with the OP. There are quite a few stories on this board. But those who want to recover their marriages minimize their contact with the OP, trying to switch groups or whatever they have to do- and they keep it strictly business. They do not maintain private e-mail accounts for communicating with the OP, they do not go out of their way to create work situations that will bring them into contact with the OP, and they do not work out of town with the OP. I think one of your problems is that your wife thinks she has broken off the affair because it isn't currently physical- she doesn't realize that her actions indicate she is continuing the affair.

I feel sad for the heartbreak you are going through. But remember, living with a wife who is continuing contact is also heartbreaking. You wouldn't end up with the marriage anyway- you would become disgusted and fall out of love with her. Be strong, 2long! Don't respond to those e-mails! Don't engage in any R discussions. Don't be half a$$ed out of pity. You can't work on the marriage with Ratmeat in the picture. You did a good Plan A for six months. Now it is time to put your foot down- she can't have you both. I think you HAVE to be extra strong in this, because your wife has been used to having the two of you for 12 years. She will not give up her addiction lightly. And yes the commitment to work with you to rebuild is scary. It's HARD WORK!

If she chooses him, it's her own blind foolishness. Not a reflection on you.

Distract yourself from all this stuff, honey, and I don't just mean with MB. Try to do an exercise program, do stuff with friends, do some cultural stuff if possible, go to the movies, go on a Sierra Club hike (if you go to your local club's website they have lists of activities). Keep busy! And do some stuff a little uncharacteristic of yourself, that will get your wife wondering. Like if you tend not to be involved, volunteer in a soup kitchen. If you're not too cultural, go to the ballet. Or,if you're not sporty, go to a baseball game. Then don't tell her about it but mention it to your son. Distract yourself as much as possible!

OK, gotta go! Good luck! Glad you have the appt with Steve!

You can keep the e-mails comming, but to me, your WW comes accross as very hard headed. I don't think she'll let her pride get out and just say:

"Dear I think we should mince the RatMeat because you leaving just proved me wrong"

Don't have high expectations, more than likely she'll try to use you leaving as an excuse to be mad at you:

"You left!!! and you didn't even bother telling me why! I have perfect right to be mad"

I know, damn that sounded pessimistic, so never mind. I think she will get more and more curious and eventually crack. Don't move one inch from where you are now. The counselling maybe a week away, but a week of determination is a small sacrifice for a better outcome, isn't it?

Please don't crack, if you do I'll go over there and fwap you with a salmon or other fish I gather.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

2long,
I agree with everyone else that NO CONTACT is the absolute best...or at the very least a one sentence, very short response. I sense that you waiver in your posts about remaining in contact with her...you're going to have to become strong.

I'm sure a professional is working on your home and is not missing any areas of damage. That was lame. You need not reply to further messages such as this as she can speak to the contractor herself.

Can you see that your leaving has increased her focus on you and not rat meat? I'm sorry but you're a much better person than I...I never wanted to comfort my H while he suffered the consequences of his affair. I wanted him to feel that pain in full so that he would not return.

You also might want to rethink talking to her so much about MB right now. Do you really want her to read your posts? I doubt MB will help her while she's in that thick fog.

I think it's looking good as far as Plan B goes. Be strong.