espoir:

"Way to go, 2long! glad to hear you have the appointment with Steve. I guess it can't hurt to let her know about the appointment and give her the option to join in. Do so in sparse words- I sense in your communication that you tend to try to explain yourself alot, perhaps hoping that words will convince your wife."

I do do that, don't I!!? I would like to tell her about the appointment in a way that let's her decide whether to participate. I'll not hit her with it, just a one-liner in a response to an appropriate email from her... or better yet, let my MIL or D tell her that I've made the appointment and see what happens.

"When I intercepted a graphic message from OW to my H on his cell phone, he immediately played the "invading my privacy" (how dare you!)card. I responded, I should be able to listen to any message to you, look through any letter to you, and not find something that would break my heart."

Very definitely. And THAT is why I "know" (meaning, was able to confidently confront her last week about it, without revealing what I saw) that her dialog with Rat Meat is over the line - because she, in her own words, was hysterical when she saw that I'd sent my note to her hotmail account.

"All the stuff she writes- trying to blame you for having no respect for not informing her of your decision to move out- is a feeble attempt to deflect attention from the real issue. The lack of respect she is showing you by continuing her affair. Which she is doing by the way."

Yep.

"Some WS are forced to continue working with the OP. There are quite a few stories on this board. But those who want to recover their marriages minimize their contact with the OP, trying to switch groups or whatever they have to do- and they keep it strictly business. They do not maintain private e-mail accounts for communicating with the OP, they do not go out of their way to create work situations that will bring them into contact with the OP, and they do not work out of town with the OP."

I'm going to be very firm about this. My W hired him to consult on this project, that's now winding down. Since he's been consistently late in getting his results to her, she's used this as an excuse to continue communication with him. It doesn't wash with me (never mind the privacy crap). OTHER people can handle the dialog. I won't wait for her to finish her report to cut him off. Also, he lives in another state. There's no reason for them to work together. He has a job. My W can get someone else to do the kind of work that he does (which I think is marginally useful, at best). She's writing proposals for the next 2 projects, involving another year or so of work. I'm going to be very firm here, too. She doesn't need HIM to do the work. But if she can't get someone else, she should quit this job. She hates it anyway, and gets plenty of offers to work elsewhere. No, this isn't a situation where she'll have to be in the same office with him. She NEVER WILL. She'll see him at professional meetings, probably, but you all know how easy it is to avoid someone at a conference. There's no need even to say hi. No, 2much water under the bridge with this Mo' Fo'. Too much damage CONTINUING to be done to our M and our whole family by this private contact. It must end, and it must end soon. Can't get to withdrawal without getting past denial.

"I think one of your problems is that your wife thinks she has broken off the affair because it isn't currently physical- she doesn't realize that her actions indicate she is continuing the affair."

This is correct. One of the things my IC was able to get her to do, as a short-term "remedy" to our problems, was to get her to promise to 'have an exclusive sexual relationship with your H'. That's fine for starters, and my W felt pretty smug when she told me about it afterwards, but then I punctured her balloons when I said "I wish he would have said 'have an exclusive INTIMATE relationship with your H' instead." That pi$$ed her off, because that's the problem. She needs to focus her intimacy, all of it, on her M and family, and NONE of it on this lying, cheating, [censored] Rat Meat.

"I feel sad for the heartbreak you are going through. But remember, living with a wife who is continuing contact is also heartbreaking. You wouldn't end up with the marriage anyway- you would become disgusted and fall out of love with her."

Exactly why I had to leave when I did.

"Be strong, 2long! Don't respond to those e-mails! Don't engage in any R discussions. Don't be half a$$ed out of pity. You can't work on the marriage with Ratmeat in the picture."

Absolutely.

"You did a good Plan A for six months. Now it is time to put your foot down- she can't have you both. I think you HAVE to be extra strong in this, because your wife has been used to having the two of you for 12 years. She will not give up her addiction lightly. And yes the commitment to work with you to rebuild is scary. It's HARD WORK!"

I have no idea how hard this will be, but I am eagerly hoping to have the opportunity to find out. It sure beats the pain I'm feeling constantly right now.

"If she chooses him, it's her own blind foolishness. Not a reflection on you."

I know this. I just hope she's not that big a fool.

"Distract yourself as much as possible!"

I'm thinking of making space in the garage for my son and I to work on our airplanes together. I need to resume some activities with him. He's got lots of new friends in HS right now, though, and they spend HOURS playing video and card games together. Gotta set aside a day a week with him by myself, at least.

Alostwife:

Yeah. I'm trying to make certain that I have no expectations, just hope.

I will restrict MOST of my replies to emails having to do with the rebuilding of our house. The danger there is that this is one of the things my W does to keep busy and avoid facing the consequences of her actions. The email is better than face to face conversation because it's less frequent and shorter in duration, at least. (plus it gives me the chance to tell her that I love her, again, without getting sucked into an argument as to what the he!! that means!).

<small>[ July 22, 2002, 12:11 PM: Message edited by: 2long ]</small>

Thanks amhurt.

I guess I'm still trying to get my feet under me as to how to deal with the kind of contact we need to have regarding family and house stuff. I think I've made my point about seeing her, at least. I think it's working to be in the guest house and away from her in the rental. I hope that she'll respect my desire to be left alone for now, at least until I've talked to SH and gotten feedback on my plan B letter.

I may be asking for help here in writing some sort of "interim" plan B note. But probably not. I want her not to forget that I need her to cut off Rat Meat. But she already knows she needs to do that...

Ewwwwwwwwwww

"I need her to cut off rat meat"

icky

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Hooray!!! My 1800th post!!!!

Wish I didn't need even 1... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Years ago we were cursed with rats living under our storage building...and I'm talking big mothers... We have a creek near us and H said they were creek rats. Ewwwwwww. Storage barn is near apple trees and our world's only hyperactive basset hound often wouldn't finish his dinner...the attraction I'm sure.

Well, being male and a bird hunter, he loved getting these guys. He would lure them out and shoot at them with rat shot for awhile...they became too smart for that. Then we noticed they dug a tunnel from the edge of our property to the storage building. Husband poured gasoline down the hole and threw a match in there. Talk about an explosion! (got too close to the whole at the explosion and his eyebrows were singed)

Well, this one rat ran out on fire! Now I love animals and don't want ever to see one hurt..but rats...ugh. This on fire rat ran all over the yard into the next door neighbor's yard. We couldn't catch it to put it out of its misery. Hey 2long, if you want, I'll get Husband to handle rat meat.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<small>[ July 22, 2002, 01:18 PM: Message edited by: amhurt ]</small>

amhurt:

"Hey 2long, if you want, I'll get Husband to handle rat meat.."

Drop me an email! I'll tell him where the shed is!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Actually, better not tempt me.

I've got an idea.

Since I have to interact via email at least regarding scheduling work on the house, I've taken that opportunity to remind my W that I love her.

First, I ended the message with "love, 2long" but the next one I had to send, with the roofer's schedule, was "buckets of my best love for you, 2long."

What about this idea? Anybody have any ideas of ways to say "love, 2long" that I could use if there's future correspondence? I like it that I can "remind her" that I love her this way, because it's not part of the message, it's just saying "toodles" at the end.

Ideas? or is 2long 2desparate?

She knows you love her ... but she wants you to love her enough to invite rat meat to tea.

A simple Love 2Long gets my vote.

P <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Pepper:

Why do you guys have to be so darned RIGHT all the time? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I'll try to remember the H4F axiom: Hope - okay, Expect - not okay. (with apologies for paraphrasing)

Hey 2long have you thought about sending RatMeat on a wild goose chase? How you ask? Well writte him a love letter in the style your wife has used when writting to him in the past, saying that she can't wait any longer and that she must have him now, and give him an address in Anchorage Alaska <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Hey I know it's crazy but it just might work and wouldn't it be fun to see that RatMeat took the bait and the only thing he got for his hyperactive hormones was his little willie frostbitten? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

TMCM:

Actually, this time of year the mosquitos would suck that bad boy dry! (and hopefully give him malaria in the process).

I'm not doing too well right now. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

(((((((((((HUGS))))))))))))!!!!

I'll send my minions (and yes I have minions, I am serious!!!), with a legion of very angry platypusses. When they are through with it don't be surprised if he has ceased to exist? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

<small>[ July 22, 2002, 04:47 PM: Message edited by: Alostwife ]</small>

Alostwife:

Careful. I have it on good authority that Rat Meat is an accomplished Platycake eater! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I have found it useful for me to type a response to my W's email from last night, but without an address in the "To" box.

It's gotten quite long, actually. A major vent, but the truth as I see it.

Perhaps if we DV someday, I can put this on a DVD-R disk along with all my posts to this forum and mail it to her. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

It did lift me up a bit writing it, though.

well if he eats the platicake he'll be in trouble, because 1-they will still be poisonous, and 2-the platypus enthusiasts will come get him.

My minions are very ingenious and instructed by moia. I also go by Evil Mistress of Doom <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> .

Ranting is good, let it flow. Maybe getting yourself into reading some loooong series would help. My xWH hates long series because he cant stop untill he is done. I bought him a couple of Terri Prattchet books and he cannot stop buying them now. Teehee I am bad or what?

Maybe some Hitchicker's Guide to the Galaxy could make you smile some if you haven't read it yet.

Okay, I know that this is bad, bad 2long at his 2baddest, posting this vent about my W's email to me last night, but I just gotta do it. I'm gonna journal it here and delete it from my email program, just in case...

I know, it's far from a one or two word message, and I'm being overly analytical with it (and should never send it, or anything like that). But, I have to get this out. I think this is why I always did so badly in humanities classes! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

THIS IS A VENT. IT IS ONLY A VENT. IF THIS HAD BEEN AN ACTUAL EMAIL MESSAGE, YOU'D BE READING ABOUT 2LONG'S UNTIMELY DEMISE IN THE MORNING'S OBITUARIES!

W: I agree you do need time, time to think about what love is, it is not owning , it is not having, it is sharing, it is caring, it is looking past the faults because we all have them, and trying to help make each other be better, each life a little easier, happier, kinder it is excepting each other for what we are, and the moments shared, they do not fade or end, but do change...

2long: I do know what love is. I love YOU. I want to share everything about me with you, and I want you to share your innermost feelings and ambitions with me. All the good stuff, all the bad stuff, ALL OF IT. I want to support you morally and financially in your endeavors with your property. I want us to nurture and care for each other and help each other grow intellectually, just like we promised each other 26 years ago. I cannot and will not do that any longer if I have to "share" you with Rat Meat.

W: Of late the moments together are almost all filled with pain and hurt, and fear not loving.

2long: And why is this? Because you love two people at the same time. And you're continuing to lie by omission about what transpires between you and Rat Meat even now. Don't believe you can wean yourself away from being emotionally attached to him. It won't work.

W: So you ask me to share my thought with you and so I do and all they seem to do is hurt you. Yes I'm very torn, each of you have wonderful things to give...

2long: And Rat Meat has given himself to OMW and his two sons, and he needs to GET BACK to his family, exclusively and WITHOUT YOU. Have either of you thought about how the breakup of his family due to your affairs has affected them? I know how horrible this feels EVERY DAY, and yet you have chosen to continue this relationship and are about to break up OUR family too in the process. Have you thought about how you plan to explain your relationship with Rat Meat to our son?? You will devastate him. I can assure you of this because I know what it feels like right now. Our son is at a very impressionable age. Do you want him to grow up believing that he can be dishonest and cheat in his own relationships just because he becomes attracted to someone else?

W: I hate that I would ever have to choose.

2long: There is absolutely no question that you do have to choose. Choose carefully, here, and make your decision soon. Would you choose to leave your family to be with a man that has cheated with you on his family throughout MOST of his own marriage? It would never work out, and you know it. To me, this man is nothing but a liar and a cheat. Even when OMW found out about your first affair and made them move to NM, he chose to have another affair with you. He has no integrity. I have no respect for him as an individual, and certainly not as a man. I have no desire to know him or ever see him. He is worse than a nobody to me. Why? Because you invited him to invade our relationship without my knowledge and certainly without my consent. The quality of our marriage in the past 12 years isn't so much due to our inability to communicate, it's because your emotions were focused elsewhere and so you were incapable of being truly intimate in every sense of the word during that time. Even between your affairs, you had to keep part of your life secret from me. You had to be on your guard, so as not to reveal anything that might show just what you and Rat Meat had done to your families. I will have nothing to do with him for the rest of my life, and you had better not either.

On the other hand, I have a 28-year history of memories with you, and two beautiful kids. And so, in spite of the damage you have done to our relationship by having an these affairs with Rat Meat, I have a very strong desire to learn what it was that caused us to grow apart 12 years ago, to the point that you felt you had no alternative than to have an affair with Rat Meat. We can learn from our past mistakes, but only if we stop committing them and focus on US and our family, excluding all others.

W: Doen't it mean anything that I keep trying?

2long: It means a great deal to me that you care enough to try. But exactly what do you expect to accomplish? And when? I honestly don't know. It seems you are trying to get me to accept that your relationship with Rat Meat is going to somehow be harmless to our marriage and family from now on, in spite of your history. That's ridiculous. The harm of your past affairs has been done, and can never be undone. It CAN BE forgiven, but the relationship must end, forever, in order for that to happen. Forgiveness is a gift, and we can choose to forgive each other for our mistakes. Trust must be earned, and you haven't made the effort so far to earn my trust in you. You can't expect me to rebuild my trust in you if you insist on maintaining a "private" life with Rat Meat. Your hotmail account, that you yourself said you created specifically for communicating with Rat Meat will do nothing to help me trust you. Quite the opposite. I can't trust you so long as you keep any secrets from me about anything that could have an impact on our relationship. And this person will forever be a serious threat to your relationship with me and your family. And you can’t expect to be able to rebuild your trust in ME, if your actions keep me feeling suspicious of you. Let’s help each other out here.

No, there is no "trying." There's only a simple, though not an easy choice for you to make: STOP ALL CONTACT WITH RAT MEAT FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE, and do it NOW. You can't expect me to help you get through withdrawal from Rat Meat if you don't get past denial. And we can't even begin the hard, but rewarding work it will take to rebuild our marriage until you've made it through withdrawal. And every contact you have from this point on will postpone the withdrawal process.

Please come back to me emotionally. I love you and I want us to spend the rest of our lives together. I believe in you. I believe in your beautiful ambitions and goals for your research property. I marvel at what you've done for our nieces and nephew over the years. Look at the people they're becoming, in large part due to the time YOU chose to spend with them.

YOU made yourself the scientist you are today. Nobody else did. You deserve to be as proud as I am of your accomplishments as a scientist.

Really GREAT vent! ..... vent like this here on MB forum a million times if you feel the need to write it all down. I think it is good to let it all out. Good to voice your arguements here.

Everything you wrote in your vent is true and valid. Know that.

I am certain it kills you that you have all these thoughts and feelings and logic to share with her .... you miss your life partner. It doesn't feel natural not to talk things over with her, not sharing with her. It feels worse than a death. I know. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> I remember.

2Long.... you are feeling early withdrawl. Take notice what this feels like. One day (hopefully in the not too distant future) your clever wife will be experiencing withdrawl. This withdrawl experience of yours can be helpful to you when you are trying to understand and help her during her withdrawl.

Doesn't withdrawl feel just way too panicky! As if you have lost yourself! This is when you must focus ON YOURSELF ... so you can make it through withdrawl.

Go meditate your navel.

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

<small>[ July 22, 2002, 07:18 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

Pepper:

"Really GREAT vent! ..... vent like this here on MB forum a million times if you feel the need to write it all down. I think it is good to let it all out. Good to voice your arguements here.
Everything you wrote in your vent is true and valid. Know that."

Thanks. That does make me feel a little bit better. I really did need to get that out, not bottle it up. I've been talking my MIL's ear off in the guest house every evening. It's actually quite amazing just how perceptive she is, and how objective she can be, considering this is her own D, who won't even talk to her about any of this.

"I am certain it kills you that you have all these thoughts and feelings and logic to share with her .... you miss your life partner. It doesn't feel natural not to talk things over with her, not sharing with her. It feels worse than a death. I know. I remember."

Like I said, this is extremely painful to me. And right now, it hurts almost more than the LBs from her and her insistence on keeping Rat Meat as a friend.

"2Long.... you are feeling early withdrawl. Take notice what this feels like. One day (hopefully in the not too distant future) your clever wife will be experiencing withdrawl. This withdrawl experience of yours can be helpful to you when you are trying to understand and help her during her withdrawl."

I will try to remember this and stay strong. I want this all to be over NOW.

"Doesn't withdrawl feel just way too panicky! As if you have lost yourself! This is when you must focus ON YOURSELF ... so you can make it through withdrawl."

Oh yes. Very much so. Makes it extremely hard to get my work done. Only thing that has helped is NOT being LB'd by her in addition to all this emotional crap.

"Go meditate your navel."

I have. It's UGLY <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Pepper:

"2Long.... you are feeling early withdrawl."

Hey, wait a minute! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> You said "EARLY" withdrawal!!!

How much longer should I expect this to go on??? I have a presentation in front of a bunch of science teachers on Monday! (and a bunch of other things that are STILL not done - but a few that are <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )

2long? Hope not!