My WH and I are in counseling and are communicating much better. In one of our recent discussions, H mentioned that he thought the whole fidelity thing was overrated anyways. (Is this just guilt talking?)
He went on to say that he thought things like honesty, kindness, communication, caring for each other and so on were just as important. He seemed to feel that maybe if I just recognized how well he did in the other areas of our marriage (for example taking care of us financially), I would realize that I actually have it pretty good. His indiscretions, though wrong (he did admit) were not that important when weighed in the balance of all that makes a marriage.

What do you think of this?

I told him I thought all spouses expected marital fidelity when getting married. That sexual exclusivity was part of the general expectations. We are from a religious background, and fidelity certainly is important in our belief system. Somehow my WH seems to think we give fidelity too much weight in assessing our marriage.

Again, is that just guilt talking?

I'd appreciate your insights.

I believe it is guilt talking. Looking for a way to make himself feel better.

Infidelity causes so much pain that the rest is almost worthless if it is present. Many will give up all the rest if it happens, because of the grief and angush.

This comes to mind: "for what does it profiteth a man if he should gain the whole world, but loose his own soul."
With out fidelity, how much is the other stuff really worth? How much happiness does it bring.

Another example we could use is slavery. I mean, slaves have love, food, honesty, communication. So slavery must not be too bad ? Why can't they be happy just cause they are not free? Freedom's not worth that much is it?
To many, it's worth life itself.
Some see fidelity that way.

No, I can't buy that one. I would say he is far from recovery if he takes that point of view. Hope someday he sees the pain it causes.

SS

<small>[ July 17, 2002, 03:25 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

he thought the whole fidelity thing was overrated anyways. (Is this just guilt talking?)
It's not guilt, it's justification. If you were to agree that fidelity is overrated, then it would allow him to feel better about what happened. After all, even YOU would agree it's not that important.

Don't believe him for a second...

Schnarch says that the BIGGEST betrayal in an infidelity is to SELF... so he may be saying this TO YOU... but it is to help HIMSELF feel better...

Cali

I think it's more like a really thick fog talking...

How could one be "kind, considerate, honest, caring and so on," and have an adulterous relationship? That just doesn't make sense.

How could one lie about the affair yet say they are honest? How could one give affection and attention to another and that be considerate and kind? How could one deceive another yet that be considered caring?

If there isn't going to be fidelity, then why marry? Isn't that what we promise when we do marry...forsaking all others?

He wants you to realize that you had it pretty good because he provided for you financially and the infidelity was not that important when weighed in the balance of all that makes a marriage...what is a marriage relationship if it is not between two people exclusively? I would have been devastated to hear this.

Still seeking is absolutely correct...he's far from recovery...

I have to agree with Chris - I think it's justification.

Also, if you look at what he said piece by piece, infidelity brings down all the other things that are "just as important".

"honesty, kindness, communication, caring for each other and so on were just as important"

Ok, if there is infidelity then where is the honesty, and the caring for "feelings, health". What about kindness? Wouldn't it be more kind to say I'm getting involved with someone else rather than lieing and saying you are the only one. Communication - lacking all the way. If all these other "imporatant" things were there and so well as to be acknowledged, then you wouldn't even be faced with the issue of infidelity.

Just my opinion. My best to you. Take care.

Ditto amhurt

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">he thought things like honesty, kindness, communication, caring for each other and so on were just as important </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Like, "Honey, I'm going to go have sex with another woman tonight (honesty), I'll bring you some chocolate & roses (kindness) afterwards and tell you how it went and you can tell me what you think (communication). You are such a great wife and mother, I can't believe how lucky I am." Followed by a hug (caring).

I think your H doesn't want to realize that one negative like infidelity outweighs 20 good characteristics or behaviors.

<small>[ July 17, 2002, 04:09 PM: Message edited by: Lor (Lor) ]</small>

It's pretty hard to stick to your vows to love, honour and cherish when one lusts for, chases and worships the OP. It spreads the WS very thin! Makes it very hard for the WH to fully commit to the marriage! I understood my vows to mean I'd give all of myself...not just the parts I thought I excelled at! Your WH claims certainly sound like justification.

I agree with Chris this is a giant game of rationalization!!!!

Well, for 22 years I had a marriage that was faithful, and for 3 years I have dealt with a life devastated by infidelity. So I think that actually fidelity is highly UNDERRATED. How can you have any of the other good things in marriage without it? Besides, they call them COMMANDMENTS, not SUGGESTIONS.

If your husband thinks that financial security is a substitute for emotional security, he has a lot to learn. Justification, rationalization, fog, whatever excuse you want to use is just an excuse for his bad behaviors. Did he actually say any of this in the counseling session? If not, I think it might be good to bring it up next time. If your counselor is like ours, he/she will certainly have something to say about that theory!

You know, it's much easier to eliminate the standard than it is to live up to the standard. If you decriminalize the crime, then you make the criminal innocent in the stroke of a pen. Not very original or imaginative, but a nice stab at avoiding accountability.

Thanks, all, for your insightful comments. I felt pretty sure we had rationalization, justification and the like going on. Carrying this thought a bit further, one thing my WH mentioned was the idea that sexual relations seem to occur for most couples before marriage, if not with several other partners before marriage. The commitment, then, to share exclusively with each other AFTER marriage seems all the more crucial.

For me, it was something I took for granted. I made the mistake of assuming that fidelity was as important to him as it is to me. I guess this is where communication comes in.

As for the other needs in marriage, I have to agree that kindness, consideration and such are all part and parcel of fidelity.

While I am encouraged that my WH finally wants to be involved in some serious counseling as a couple, I guess patience is the name of the game in waiting for all the fog to lift.

Thanks for the input.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by asgoodasitgets:
<strong>My WH and I are in counseling and are communicating much better. In one of our recent discussions, H mentioned that he thought the whole fidelity thing was overrated anyways. (Is this just guilt talking?)
He went on to say that he thought things like honesty, kindness, communication, caring for each other and so on were just as important. He seemed to feel that maybe if I just recognized how well he did in the other areas of our marriage (for example taking care of us financially), I would realize that I actually have it pretty good. His indiscretions, though wrong (he did admit) were not that important when weighed in the balance of all that makes a marriage.

.........
Again, is that just guilt talking?

I'd appreciate your insights.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sounds like WS babble to me. So how can you have an A with honesty, care, kindness and communication?

How much of a dollar can be torn off before it is worthless? How much of our hearts can be ripped out before we are hurt? Same difference.

So is he giving you carte blanche to do the same? Mine said he would not? So I asked why the double standards? He said because he was a bad person and I was not. I said, oh well now I want to be like you. He said I scared him. Then the OW said I sacred her. Ooooh she just likes to repeat what the WS told her, whether her words makes sense or not is not important to her..... see OWs babble also. Such stupidity.

L.