Here are a couple of links to my basic story:

Just posting to vent, and I hope someone will chime in here. My attitude right now is so-so, not positive, not good. Just there in neutral.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=018486
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=018725

I don't post a lot, just when I'm really frustrated. I have my hands full and have been really busy with a lot of things, but if anyone can provide advice, comments, insights here I'd really appreciate it and will follow here really closely.

The sum of the situation now is that H's affair is over as near as I can tell. She ended it, it was a messy messy story.

Now, H is insisting that it's over between us because I "messed" up his life. The OW or her common law husband broke into his apt during the time H and I were away with D at a college orientation, hacked into his email, and found messages that were misinterpreted. She thought we were going to reconcile. We were no where near!! Obviously, OW assumed a few things because we were away together. I'm certain that this isn't the only reason H thinks I messed up his life, but it is the icing on the cake. Of course, I fouled up seriously throughout all of this... it was so hard to not lose it with him so many times.

I am actually reading, reading, reading now. Reading what's available here (attempting a Plan B here, which is pretty similar in my view to the advice given in Divorce Remedies and on the site for that approach--I do like many of the concepts there.) Basically, I am going as "dark" on H as possible. Doing a turn around and just letting him exist without any interference on my part. He has been too stubborn, too controlling, and too weird especially since this A ended.

For instance, he does not wish me to leave him voice mail, but desires email to communicate. Big deal. I don't really communicate now unless absolutely necessary. Like when kids need transportation---and then, I encourage kids to call him.

He also stated it was time to repair things with kids, and it seems as if he is trying that but perhaps half-heartedly. But, time will tell. It's only been a couple of weeks since A ended. And he just seems spacey still. As for me, he does his best to ignore me.

I told H to initiate the divorce. When I last saw him Monday, this is what happened:
- he sent me an odd email again. Basically, it said forget him, that we could only be friends the day I realized he wasn't coming back, and that I wanted to act as if his affair never happened. (Yeah... right!!) Then he tells me that with any luck it will happen again and that our marriage was a shambles way before it and that the OW had nothing to do with it.

Ok. So, I call again, go over there to talk. I was upset, but I handed him my rings and told him to initiate a divorce. I put the ball in his park.

The DIY divorce kit was still laying around, nothing done with it. He doesn't have a lawyer.

I told him he couldn't even attempt to be my friend (and I tried to say this in as an unemotional voice as possible) unless he was honest and forthcoming. And that he started to face up to some of his responsibilities between us with the house/finances and the kids. This happened Monday.

Also when I was at his place, I noticed he had been to the house a number of times to "borrow" things when I hadn't been around. Things like dishes, my daugher's camera tripod, my office supplies... weirdness. I asked him to not do that... and well, that started a tiff. So we ended up agreeing not to show up at each other's place of residence without invitation. I don't care of kids invite him and I'm not here... but it's just weird that he'd sneak around for stuff like that during all of this and I felt uncomfortalbe with him continuing that habit. I told him he had to let me know if he came by.

I don't know here any more. I am trying to just ignore the hell out of the guy except for perfunctory stuff (he asked to borrow my car to do something with one of the kids next week), stuff like that...

Does anyone even think it's possible to even reconcile this marriage at this point?

This is so weird. The only way he'll communicate with me is via email, so I guess that's ok right now. I don't have to listen to his nasty moods, but it's very easy for him to blow off what he doesn't wish to know or hear as well. Every piece of news good or bad comes from email with him.

I'm simply just working on myself now. Took a leave of absence from work for a while, am working to just get some stuff down around the house, and trying to just forget he exists as much as possible right now. Not easy.

I guess right now I don't have hope and yet I'm not totally hopeless yet... I'm just here attempting to find a way to build a positive mental attitude deal with this situation. I'm trying as best as I can to ignore the guy, wait for him to contact me. I can tell when he's nervous even in email... the spelling and the wording are almost unreadable. When he asked to borrow my car (it's a Dodge), he spelled "dodge" as "Doddje." He's smart and fairly well educated, so I know he was foggy headed. When he wants to demand or control me, the sentences are clear and concise and very readable.

Just venting and edited this because I am confused and looking at myself and saying "Do I really even care to figure things out now? It seems as if we're both dufuses in different ways. We have kids together, they're missing dad, I'm wondering whether he gives two craps about anything beyond himself, and I don't know if I even care to trust him again..."

Anyone with some words of wisdom? Thanks.

<small>[ July 18, 2002, 09:08 AM: Message edited by: bluekeys ]</small>

Bluekeys,

I think you will get much better response here if you tried to shorten your posts a bit. Sorry no one has responded yet. It sounds like you are really hurting.

IMHO: You will never show him you have changed if you continue to LB. Choose a Plan and stick with it. Do not try to mix in other plans from the divorce buster site because IMHO it is counter productive and counter Plan A. Plan A is also about not LB'ing and from the sounds of it, you are LB'ing all over the place. If you really want a divorce, then you do it. Putting the ball in his court tells me you really do not want a divorce. What is it that you wanted to accomplish by your action of giving him your rings? This was a huge LB. Be true to yourself, do not play games with your WH.

Is there any truth to your WH's comment about the marriage being broken prior to his A? More than likely he is correct. Right? So like most people realize here is that (just like in your case) the A is just a symptom of a bad marriage. Surely he has much to correct in his life, but don't you do too? The fact that you are LBing means that you need to work on yourself. Do not try to rely on WH for your hapiness. True joy comes from within.

Keep in mind that the A will completely die, if it has not already. Thinking back in your relationship, if you can remember that at least 20% of your R with WH was great, then recovery is possible.

Try to stay calm, try to focus in on what you intend to get from reacting to WH instead of rationalizing and using MB principals.

I hope you are feeling better. Keep posting.

Chameloen, thanks. Yes, I still hurt.

The situation was messy.

As for rings, I did that in anger, which I should never have done. And, no I don't want a divorce. But I lost my patience again, too.

As for confusing signals, yes. I have often acted before thinking, or I should say: reacted rather than thinking.

Yes, he is probably right in that the M was broken for the last couple of years. But, I'd say it was great at least 25% of the time, good about 40-50%, downhill or crappy rest of time.

arghgh... I've blown it so much. With so many things pulling me everywhich way but loose...; finances, kids, house. Every step of the way, we argued about that stuff and it would alwasy derail me.

I'm feeling better... in actually a pretty good mood today. But, still really shaky about this marriage. I just don't know what to do here except just ignore him and let him be in his cave right now. I'm just tired of feeling like he's been yanking my strings throughout all of this. I think too that in a way too I wanted to tell him that with the rings, but failed miserably. I should have just shut up and walked at that point with the rings!

blue,

I am sorry that you are still hurting, that will probably be around for a while!! It lessens as you do a good plan A. Plan A is about you and to focus on you, not your WH. IMHO leave him alone in his cave for right now.

Get some books go on line whatever, see if you can find some ways to act before reacting, work on improving that beahviour of yours.

You mention something about WH yanking your strings, think about it he can only yank your strings if you let him (reacting). It's one of those things that I needed to work on (Big time). I have learned to say "I will need to process this and get back to you" this gives me time to think!!! I come her and ask my friends for help with the way I phrase things. I've learned not to use "I" statements, I try to turn each conversation (Confrontation) into a "win/win" situation. I don't accuse, that got me no where!! One that it I still need to work on is that I am not going to teach my husband how wrong he is with his behaviour. I don't bring up his behaviour!! Probably helps that WH and I live 850 miles away!!!!

Keep posting!!!!! Keep reading!!!!

Dawn <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Dawn, thanks.

Now... if I could get a job transfer... we get along better right?

Hmmm... always wanted to live in the Carmel Valley CA area LOL

that would put about 2000 mi distance there!

Thanks again.

Hey bluekeys,

I am glad you are feeling better. To help stop from reacting, what I try to do to prevent from reacting is rationalize my action prior to my action. I so much want to take off my ring right now and throw it at my WW (well maybe just put it somewhere where she can see it. I have few feelings for her right now). Knowing that is my action, I try to determine what would be the outcome of this action. My WW (knowing full well she is entangled with withdrawal - who also is not wearing her ring) would not even care. I further rationalize this by saying, I do not want a divorce yet, and since the ring is a symbol of marriage, I would not be true to myself by taking the ring off. I would be doing it to spite. If I still feel like doing this action, I sleep on it. Usually this does the trick.

I think you may want to consider going back to your H and get your ring back and apologize for the outburst. It will make a HUGE POSITIVE impression. Do not say anything other than the apology (very short and sweet), just get the ring and leave.

I think dawn and you are right, give him some space right now. I think this is more important for you then him. Take a break for a week or so and just do something fun for yourself. Don't think about this stuff for a while. Or use the time to read a good book.

Thanks chameleon <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I think I may take your advice, but will wait a few days. I hear you about the rationalization. Maybe you or someone can chime in here more...

H and I have a very difficult time communicating right now, but things *seem* to be getting slowly, slowly, slowly more positive. And because he is very terrified and afraid of me (I guess I have come off like dragonwoman to him at times), I want to just really want to drop back a bit, maybe a few days or a week and see what happens.

H is finally realizing that he should talk/see our girls. Three bright bits here: 1. He spent a few hours over dinner with our youngest Tues. night just to hang out. Our youngest is probably the closest to him. He let ME drop her off, no complaints about control. 2. He spent a few hours over dinner last night with D#2 who's off to college to discuss her financial aid and life in general, and youngest went along also. He let me drop them off AND pick them up. No complaints about control, just asked that I pick up/drop off at specific times, which I followed w/no comment. 3. He actually semi-volunteered to "make arrangements to stay with our Ds" while I made some business trips to Florida in Aug/Sept. He knows how concerned I am about leaving adolescents alone at home for extended periods. One trip will be for 5-6 days, another will be for 3-4 days.

Additionally, while I've been trying to bite my tongue with him until it bleeds, he has actually returned a few voice mails for "business" stuff. (I really needed his social security number to call the mortgage company). He called back--no prompting, and did so immediately!! Usually it takes a million tries to even get the smallest bit of info from him.

I haven't heard the D word out of him for the past 4 days or so, but we haven't really talked at length, either. Just kids and the mortgage thing. So, I think right now because of the way things are... just kids/business only gets him to communicate, I'm afraid that asking for rings back right now will put him further into his cave. So, as long as he's inching slowleeeeeee out of the cave, I'll wait a bit. Afraid that if I move too fast, say the wrong thing, that perhaps he may think there's a trap at the entrance of his cave, considering the fact I told HIM that D decision was completely in his hands.

Right, now I'm just hanging with our kids, cleaning closets, getting ready to sell clothes through consignment, and getting kids prepped for school/college, and trying to revamp MY life. Methinks he needs to see another side of me too when he peers out of that cave of his.

What say ye???

I'm going to bump this message. Situation has changed, perhaps someone can chime in here and help me out!!!

This morning, got up early, came downstairs to watch some news, work a bit.

Heard the sliding glass door open, someone walk in. Saw a car, hear some steps. By the time I could move, door closed and car gone. Scared the bejeesus out of me. I left that door open because I was waiting for a kid to return home from an overnight at a friend's house.

Package was left by my H by coffee pot, returning his cell phone to me.

Here's direct quotes from the note he left inside:

"...returning cell phone to you. As this was part of our original agreement of separation. That you would continue to pay for it, even though I asked repeatedly that account be changed to my name. I feel it is necessary to modify our agreement now. Since I know basic rate is $X per month and charges related to your calls regularly run over that amount quite heavily. I am asking that the monthly payments to you be reduced by $100. Which I believe is a fair amount considering the high cost of cell phone charge you accumulate both on your service and on mine, by constantly calling me. Of course your expenses should drop by a larger amount than even this. If for some reason you do not wish to agree to this small change, I will need to consider other arrangements regarding the automatic tgransfers that I volunteered to make part of the agreement also. And that you may consider this a 30 day notice of my plan to withdraw completely from that agreement under the terms of that agreement.

Please sign this with your acceptance if you choose to do so and return a copy to me so that I may change my automatic deposits to you by the amount of $50 per pay period. I would like to do this before the next pay period."

He then goes on to add:

"Also you know there are somewhat less than three months remaining on that agreement and the situation between us has changed. So I think it isi n both our interests to begin considering what comes next. I know this is a bad time for you to begin this consideration, but it must be done."

Now, no. I haven't called his cell unless it was directly tied to kids, attorney for D's car accident, and perfunctory things. Calls to his cell have dropped considerably.

I think he has been snooping, coming by house without my knowledge. My cell phone bill has been high, but the fact is I have used it mainly to contact friends and my sister and keep in touch with kids to know their whereabouts and schedules for transportation.

I think I can do without the $100 a month. But, I have not let on to that with him. I did talk to him briefly this morning--found out he tested his new cell with the old one, that's how I got number. (Just look up bill online. He times this oddly too. Bill got posted online this week. I do some bill paying electronically.)

I do not wish to make the situation antagonistic. But when we spoke this morning, he was angry but I was calm. I kept to facts. Asked him if kids had cell number, what were we to do in the event of an emergency and so forth. It did wander towards OW talk... asked him if she was back. He admitted he talked to her this week.

I calmly reminded him that he was my friend still, but tried not to push. Also probably LB'd by saying that I was unwilling to seek a divorce, that if that's what he wanted, I thought he should seek it because it was HIS decision to leave and start new R.

I did not yell, did not scream, did not judge anything. He was angry I could tell, but spoke rationally.

I am unsure of how to proceed at this point. Contact between us has been extremely minimized (probably 3 or 4 X per week) for the past month or more because there hasn't been much need except to coordinate kids and some attorney stuff about our D's auto accident. I did leave him message a few nights ago when I remembered that we were to have dinner this weekend, just to remind him but never followed through. Almost NO email contact.

Arghghg. Can anyone help out here with advice or just some feedback or encouragement?!!!

blue,

Not sure what to tell you about the cell phone thing. If you can let it ride for the 3 months remaining and then let the service ago aand get one in only your name if that's what you want, I was amazed I have lived without one for over a year now!! It can be done. I hate the way they charge for this and that!!!

Sounds like you did a good job talking this morning, staying calm and all. Don't leave the door open anymore though ok!!! Did he explain why he left it and didn't talk with you then? That is one thing I don't have to worry about is STBX coming into my house at all, too far away!!

I think it was BrambleRose who once had a post about detaching with love or something along those lines, find it and read it was worth it, most of her post are, she very good at explaining things and she is recovery, has been for year if not mistaken!!

Remember as much as you want to ask questions about ow, don't, they just lead to outbursts and angry actions.

You can do this, you are doing great thus far!!!

As far as contacting him over cell phone, give it a day or two and ask if he can explain what it is that he wants you to do. Then process the info and get back to him.

Dawn <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thanks Daybreak.

He's also screwy. We have about eight weeks left on our agreement. And I realized one thing: he can demand all he wants, do I need to acquiese is another story <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I'm thinking this is a controlling thing on his part. But, I am going to contact my attorney and put him on retainer this week to see what happens if H makes any more sudden moves or does that DIY divorce kit. H is really irrational, so I want to protect myself.

I could care less who pays for his cell phone, and I'm not going to get into any nitpicky arguments with him over $100 a month. I'll deal with it if I have to. But, I also want to make sure he doesn't make any sudden moves to drastically change our sep. agreement and I want to ensure that he doesn't do anything drastic or get forced into something that doesn't work for ME.

Guess I'm getting the hang of one thing and it might sound pretty mean and selfish, but I gotta look out for me and the girls right now. And he is financially responsible for half of the mortgage and child support at minimum. So... I'm gonna do what makes me happy today: take the Scarlett O'Hara approach, realize I can't do a lick about it today, let him stew because I think primary reason he ditched the phone back to me is because A is renewed and he wanted to give me another signal... he wants to severe another tie to me. Let him have it... let's see where this goes while I take care of myself and I ensure that I am legally and financially protected. Let that dragon in his cave breathe all the fire he wants. I don't need to stand at the entrance of that cave either <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

As for cells... wish I could live without it. But with the kids and I always here and there, it's our modus operandi for knowing who's on first and when!!! And H is right... He's saving ME money. I don't have to pay for his gal pal calls any more <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

bluekeys,

I had no time to post this weekend. Terrible weekend. I took off my ring last night it was so bad. Did not tell my WW I did. Good thing too, I changed my mind this morning. I am giving it a few days before I make a decision.

Guys are prety stupid. Especially when it comes to relationships. Everything is all black and white, nothing in between. IMHO: So as he sees it, you giving him the ring back was giving up on the M. The last and final action of disolving the M in his mind. If he was holding out for hope or for love or whatever, you told him not to by giving him the ring back. Stupid, but that is how us guys think. Positive sign that the M is over in his mind. More than likely, cell phone is just proof that he is tying up all loose ends before D.

WOW! Half of the mortgage and child support! That is quite a bit of money. If you went through a D, would you get that much? Have you talked to an attourney about this? In my state, child support is max around 35% of salary and alimony is rarely ever given, only in very extreme circumstance (such as wife has no job or education and needs time to get on her feet.)

My original advice still stands. More than ever now. I wish you the best in whatever decision you make.

Big theory I have in life is, life has enormous inertia. We set life going down a certain path and it takes drastic changes to alter the course. If one continues doing the same thing, the outcome will continue to be the same.

Thanks chameleon.

I'm just venting here, although I'm pretty sure that I'm prepared to let whatever happens, happen. It's beyond my control. What HE did and the confusing way he behaved and communicated to me drove me up the wall. I'm a pretty straight forward person... walk my walk and talk my talk.

So, as much as I'd love to pull this M from the bowels of hell, I am actually maintaining NO contact unless ABSOLUTELY necessary after this stunt.

I don't know where he's at except in his own little cave right now. I am going to contact my attorney today, get in there to give him a retainer, but let H do the initiating of the divorce. I'm going on his word that he said he wanted to "talk" to see "what I needed" before doing the D. Let's see what happens. I can decided how respond.

Am I angry? Not really. Just looking at this situation coldly and logically now. As for half the mortgage, he is the primary loan holder. And he is coowner of this property. The way I view it is that he too is an investor here, he needs to uphold his end of the deal. We both make fairly equal salaries. And we'll deal with D's auto accident and that fall out as it comes.

I am making my own contigency plans, but primarily just going on with my own life. The way I see it, he is severely sulking right now and throwing a temper tantrum. I realized another thing: he may have called our cell provider to get the balance due. And, it's kind of funny because there was a carry over balance from the previous month because I had another minor problem that he didn't know about. I had to pay for some dental work for my D, and the cash wasn't there. It happened, I called the cell provider to make arrangements and he just wasn't informed. He made a decision about that phone on his own, which was good. In our agreement, it was spelled out that he had that option. All he had to do was return the phone. I just don't like the way he did it. Like a kid running sccared... sneaking into the house, running in and then running out.

And I verified the list of calls in and out of both phones. Most charges on our phones weren't to each other. In fact, there were some mightly long calls (prime time, too) to his sister and a couple to the gal pal. A number for me were to my sister in California, work, and kids. Fine. Sounds like perhaps he made this decision on his own, without looking at all of the facts, and wanted to lash out once again.

So, I see his behavior right now as confusing. Let him take the first step towards the D while I consult an attorney. I do not need quickly acquiese to anything and have the option of considering my options.

I don't know if his A is started up again, though. Truthfully, not sure if I care at this point. I think my next steps are just to keep ignoring him, keeping him updated about just what I need to update him about (right now, D's auto accident and court appearances... he's agreed to go to court), and to just keep moving forward with my life. See what happens.

As for the rings, I guess that was a mistake, but right now, I am no position to ask for them back. What becomes of that action will happen, and I can't predict that. All I can do now is just work on myself, get to the attorney's office to see what my legal options are here, and keep my life moving along.

<small>[ July 22, 2002, 08:32 AM: Message edited by: bluekeys ]</small>

Sounds like you are doing much better. Was there ever a Plan B letter?

Don't worry about the rings then. Stick to no contact and see what happens. Maybe some consequences for his actions will jog him a bit.

Chameleon, Thanks. Yes, I am feeling better, thinking a bit more clearly. No letter. He probably wouldn't have read it. Problem is, we're both a couple of stubborn jackalopes <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> and I gotta cut that stuff out!!! Amazing how two stubborn folks can remain married for 24 years, ain't it?

He's a real stinker these days. And, truthfully, the way the man thinks sometimes these days isn't rational in my view. So, I don't care to add fuel to his fire. I also see it this way: he doesn't want contact, indicated by returning the phone. OK. Fine, I understand that. I can email if I have to, and I do have new cell number, and can contact him at work under emergency.

I just see the no contact decision as a way of complying with his wishes.

I really would like to use whatever time there is here for both of us to cool down, think. I got too responsive to external events I had no control over and to some stunts and statements he's made. It's been a rollercoaster ride these past four months... and I just need to get off that ride. (I prefer the Millenium Force at Cedar Point for REAL thrilling rides <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )

I'm updating my thread to see if anyone out there can provide perspective. I'm not following the MB philosophy except to say I'm attempting to maintain little or no contact and just keeping the door open to my H to turn around and at least be a friend. Following the Divorce Busting techniques through working on myself, distancing, being friendly when contact does occur... that sort of thing. But, I find a lot of the information and insights on this site helpful.

Long and short of it is, we're still at an impasse. I'm pretty sure that A is ended still but he denies it. However, he's usually available when kids or I do call, and he has a tendency right now to slink into his "cave" (that's what I jokingly refer to his apartment) and either work 24X7 from what I can tell or just workout. He's doing a few things to improve himself like bought a new car (dumped the old one on me to sell... but I'll deal with that as it comes, I don't think I should, another story though).

He's grumpy, mean, and angry when anyone calls him to talk, though. As if we are imposing on his life. He is very controlling and demanding, does not contact me or the girls, if we need to (such as to keep him up to date about the legal situaiton with our D's auto accident), he's just atrocious to me. Part of that is, I keep trying to just tell him, "be my friend, let's work this out" and then I get upset. He is insulting. And then he can be nice and calm a few days later if he happens to come by or one of us contacts him. He came by earlier this week to show off his new car (Jeep Baja... actually a cool car). But, the problem is... if he has control of the situation and can be top dog, then he's nice. He doesn't want to be bothered, he doesn't seem to want anyone intruding on his life.

I don't know what he's done with the DIY divorce kit. I'm waiting for him to make a move there and then do anything. As much as I dread that happening and needing to go through it, I really do not want a divorce (or not at least mentally prepared for one yet), I still do love him. Occasionally, he'll show a tiny spark of the real person underneath and be nice. I guess what I'm trying to do is stablize this situation, try to keep the peace (although yesterday was tough, we argued again... got nasty... got into R talk and made me very upset).

He says he "doesn't have this marriage thing in his head" -- direct quote from an email. He seems pretty certain he wants a divorce.

I don't quite know how to view this or rationally deal with this right now. Personally, I'd be happy for the separation to continue in the way it is right now... to attempt to slowly work towards just an understanding/peace and friendship between us to build some trust right now. I think he's head is still up his butt in terms of responsibility. But I also made the mistake in the beginning of empahsizing that to him rather than just being his friend. So, that's going to take some time to undo.

Anyone have any ideas or insights on how to deal with this? Thanks.

Hello bluekeys -- Well I am certainly no expert, but have been separated since January 02 and my WH has been in his cave (I like your term, although his apartment looks worse than a cave, more like a dumpster.)

I went through many of the same behaviors, especially as the A was ending. When their heads are up their rumps really far it takes a long time to pull them out (and wouldn't you be grumpy and in a bad mood if your head was up your rump <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ). They are angry and depressed an a whole lot of other emotions while they go through the end of an affair that was a fantasy. It's like drug withdrawal. You just have to stay away and let them stew but be friendly when you have contact.

My WH is still not at the point of committing to the marriage, but we have a friendship relationship that several months ago I did not think was possible. It takes an unbelievable amount of patience to ride out the A and the end of the A.

My thoughts are with you. You are doing better not to LB and to ride this out and concentrate on you.

Thanks unsureheart.

I haven't been posting actively here this past week, been in FL for work. But have been browsing.

This anger thing is so difficult for me to deal with. The angrier he is, the worse off I am. I become more upset and resentful... vicious cycle.

I'm finding out though the more I've distanced myself from him, the better I feel. I've been gone away now for a week. Had two short communications with him. One was to tell him my flight out was delayed... and was that one nasty 60 seconds. The other was Wed. night when I called to see how kids were doing. That lasted 45 seconds, and he was nice.

If we communicate now, it seems as if I will keep it very brief and to the point. He is so angry if I let any hint of how I feel into the conversation, and that escalates the situation. So, absolutely no R talk.

And in reality, I have no plans right now to even see him. I'll be out of town again next week. I bumped up my work travel schedule for a while to accomplish two things: one to get my job back on track and the other just to help me distance myself from this person for a while... to get some decent perspective. He's been with the kids a lot (I've been talking to the kids a lot this week) and has been working to paint some friend's house from what I hear. I am still unsure if that A is still going on, and I think the further I am away from the situation the less I am tempted to even figure that out right now.

May sound like I am running away, but somehow I think I need to toughen myself a bit with this person. Physical distance is somehow helping in that area. Now, when I get home tonight (am home Sat. and Sun.) and when I get home next week, I may be singing a different tune. Something might happen or he did do something with the DIY divorce kit. But, I'm hoping that almost no contact gives both of us a better attitude here.

My first goal throughout all of this is still to remove a lot of the perfunctory things like money and house and kids out of the arguments... I haven't griped to him about money or the house yet, and stay as far out of any communications he has with kids except to continue encouraging kids to keep contact with him. I'm hoping by eliminating these kinds of arguments, he and I can at least be friends. And that's hard to do because I'm still afraid he will lie or deliberately say or do something to hurt or disappointment again--another reason for the distance. I need to learn not to have high expectations in any encounter with him. We'd see each other often in the beginning of all of this, some small positive thing would happen. He'd hug or kiss me, say something nice, or volunteer to do something. And of course, I'd end up thinking to myself "this isn't enough..." or "I wish you'd come home and end that dratted A..." I would then open my big mouth and say what I was thinking.

Oh well... just venting and meandering here. This is such a self-learning process also!

Bluekeys,

Missed your post this week. Just blew by me I guess. Big week for me.

It sounds like you are nearly at a Plan B and it does sound like you are avoiding LB'ing. Give it some time. I think you will see that the distance may help both of you see what your missing, or not missing.

I need to leave work now. I will try to see what is up this weekend, if I can be alone.

Dear Blue,
It is good to hear from you. I, like you , have been reading but not posting. I was wondering what was happening to you.
I know how hard it is to maintain this "friendly /distance" thing. But I keep telling myself to control what I can and try to let go of the stuff I can't control-including my WH's actions!
It is also good to hear from others, like unsureheart and see that patience CAN pay off.
I guess what I really want is a crystal ball to peer into the future to see if all of this pain is going to be worth it!
Just wanted to offer some support and let you know I was thinking of you.

Hey PBm unsure, and others:

I haven't dropped off the earth. Been busy, traveling for work, doing a few things, working. Keep posting mainly to divorcebusting, though. Finding that those approaches are working better in my case. But, there's still a lot of good info here too to use and discuss.

Thanks for thinking of me.

A number of developments on my end... nothing great, nothing bad. But, H admitted to me he hasn't filed because he's "too lazy." Also through the help of a mediator, my sister, and my C, seeing the signs of an addiction in my H.

Seeing C tonight to discuss a few things like this addiction thing.

I actually have D papers now. Do not really want to move on them quickly, and might not.

A number of problems have to be batted down first really that aren't related to the D. D#2 had problems with her financial aid at college (H played a HUGE mind game with that, and the loan fell in my name ALONE and I it got turned down), so I am scrambling to get her emergency aid to keep her in college.

Weirdness on this end, and have to run here to make C appt. and get another kid to marching band practice. I'll keep up with what's on the board more frequently, though. Try to find everyone's threads and see what's happening.

<small>[ August 22, 2002, 04:00 PM: Message edited by: bluekeys ]</small>