We had a couple rough years where I did not meet W EN but we have reconciled and things have been great..yet I have this nagging fear. I have an intuition or gut feeling that she has not been faithful. There are several signs present that suggest but she has excusses for them all.

1.Gut filling that something is not right.
2. She has not always been truthful
3.Unaccounted periods of time. She says she just needs her private times and that most of the time she is just at the libarry.
4.Found a reciept for a money order $375.00 but she does not remember what it was for. Yet it was only about 8 months old.
5. She gets real defensive is I look at her stuff.
6. New sexual behavior that is more adventours.
7 New outfits and makeup to use during sex.
(says she is just coming into her prime and to watch out, reason behind the new sex stuff)
8.Revealed to me about Ex BF Fiance that was now living in town.
9. Found on computer where she had been looking up info on old BF's
10 Phone calls that just hang up.
11.Never keeps her cell phone on so I can reach her says she dosen't liked to be bothered by it.

Yet she swears she has always been faithful and offers to swear on the bible or even take a lie detector test. She can look me in the eye and promise me it has never happened, though she has done that with other lies. At times I believe her, but I just have this gut feeling that something is not right. Pleas any advice and I would be greatful.

<small>[ July 20, 2002, 09:59 AM: Message edited by: tornheart ]</small>

No advice other than " trust your gut"

TH;
Many of those "signs" sound very, very suspicious. But you know what the most powerful one is? Your GUT feeling. As you read here, you'll find that a great many of the As discovered started that way.

I suggest you do things to confirm your suspicions, as one can never be sure. Install "spy" software on the computer to track usage, sites, keys typed, emails. Record phone calls, check up on her and confirm or discard your suspicions.

I see why you are concerned. Unfortunately I am not the person to help you.

I found OW's name on phone bill's my H paid 4 years ago. I don't mean I just recently found them and they were 4 years old...I mean they were 'her' phone bills and I found them 4 years ago and didn't manage to figure out the whole story until 2 months ago. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> How stupid am I?????

That is one of my biggest regrets. I had absolute trust in H back then and when he said it's nothing, I just let it go.

Praying for you to learn whatever you need to get to the truth soon.

tornheart,

I'd for sure listen to my "gut" in your case. Do you notice a great change in how much sex she wants with you?? Does she react truely passionate??? (Does she enjoy pleasing you?)
Can you get the phone-calls tracked?? I mean get them listed by your telephone company???

just thinking
BB
PS: have you talked to her about her xbf? What does she say about contacting him???

There has been a major increse in her sex drive and whe has been willing to do things that she would not have done in the past.

She has also started using the address at a home on the coast that she visits at least once a month. She changed the directory listing for different groups she has been member of in past to this other address.

Asked about Ex she was like it was to make me know that other people had wanted her and she was a valuable commidity.

During our difficult period I had actually said I did not want to be married anymore and when she was going out of town for an extended period of time for a family health issue I told her there was the door and she did not have to come back.

She writes the most incredible love notes to me and says that she has never loved anyone but me. That she could not concieve of having an A she swears that she has not. But suppose how many people admit it when conforted.

From your description, if she did have an A, she is trying to rebuild. I hope you are also.

Perhaps she did, perhaps she came close and feels guilty. At this point we don't know. We do know that she wants you, is trying to get closer to you. I hope you are studing and trying to improve yourself, and meeting her needs. Please don't LB in trying to find out things. You can find out and still improve your marriage.

SS

If you found out for certain that she'd had an affair, would that be the deal breaker for you? Would it really kill your love? If you had a lot of proof, graphic information, would that destroy your marriage? If so, don't go snooping and spying. Read Plan A and prepare for lots of work.

But if you need to know for certain, it's not that hard to get evidence and proof. We had a thread here a long time ago, tips on putting in a phone line where the spouse doesn't go and hooking up a "caller id" box so that if WS erases incoming numbers, they won't know about the "backup" caller id box.

There's a site on the web where you punch in the phone number and get the name and/or address of the caller. I think it's ANYWHO.

There are kits to test for human semen on underwear.

You can hide a voice activated tape recorder close to a phone that she uses and check it.

You can hire a PI.

But like the others here, I vote with "trust your gut"

Best advice out there....'Trust your gut!'.

Tornheart,
There is a website that list 50 some signs that your S may be having an A. Most of your items would be on such a list.
I should worn you, that for your own sanity, it can be easy to get caught up in this investigative thing, to where it can be an obsession. it can actually get to be fun -- that is until you find what you're looking for, then it can be haunting --
No one best answer - can be a good argument both ways -- If marital relationship is not satisfactory, that in and of itself is critical --perhaps a focus on that would be beneifical -- if she is willing to proceed along those ones that could be an indication that if something happened, it is in the past & you move forward, building a stronger relationship.
If, on the other hand, she resists this, then you have more of a reason to explore what is happening. If you have the rescources, what Spacecase is doing by involving Steve Harley makes a lot of sense -- that is assuming you want the relationship, even with some wondering -- many of us make mistakes & get into something that overtakes our ability to reason & use logic, for example.
Now on the spying aspect, cell phone bills can be revealing, by using reverse lookup with Anywho or your phone company -- Hiring a PI is probablly the most effective -- If you have the bucks!!
If she does not hang out close to where your telephone line comes into your home, attaching a recording device there can work.
If she is cheating, she & this guy may be advanced with their sneakiness and it may be real difficult --
How long have you been married? Do you have children?
On the phone calls that hang up, you realize that with telemarketing calls many times there will be a pause and you can hear a click sound where they kind of put you on hold & then search for an available person & sometimes they are all busy & then it hangs up.
This is a very difficult period for you I am sure -- many of us here of course have been in your shoes & know all to well the pain and agony these things can cause. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />
Keep us updated!
This is not your fault, if she is cheating, it is her choice & she is the one that is wrong. At the same time, it could be beneficial if you hope to reconsile that you think about what you cou,d do to make the relationship better.
This is so hard and unfair, when a S cheats, it puts the BS through HeXX, but we then have to be strong and not be the nag or it only gets worse and can really spin out of control. This is not to say that should become like the proverbial "doormmat!" either. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
There of course is a possibility that she is not cheating & all your suspious actions to catch her do not make for a happy marriage.
If you have not yet, study the MB things --they make sense & can help!! I know it is hard, but try not to be too accussatory -- again, this doe snot make for a happy couple realtionhip & she will only use that as further rationalization to cheat (if she is or is thinking about).
Have you had other suspions in the past? I will say, like most have, Your gut is in most case a good barometer.
Best of Luck! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
HH

The key of course is your gut feeling. The information you received about catching your wife are excellent. She is exhibited many signs of a cheating spouse and I suspect she probably is cheating. I would take her up on her offer to take a lie detector test. My guess is that she figured you would not take her up on it. I would schedule a test for her to take. My guess is that she will refuse because she knows she will not be able to pass it and will come up with some excuse. If she agrees and passes it then I think it will say a great deal. I wish you luck.

Tornheart,
I found you other post & have a better sense of your story.
I sense that you don't really want to D your W, even if you discovery an A, is this correct?
You have some history and you do seem to love her, right?
I can relate to your concerns about your W se*ual history - this can be tough -- ideally it should not matter - we cannot expect them to be be loyal to us before we had a relationship. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
Remember, I grew up in the sixties & causual se* was in it's hay day perhaps --- although I am not sure it was that much different before or since, just a bigger focus -- Here is another wierd thing, back then my W 's promiscuous activity was one thing that attracted me to her. Now, I have a different perspective of course -- I had assumed that she pretty much shares my value system in that when people get married they give that stuff up. Well, we have learned, maybe not. UGH! It is not lioke they go out loking for it, but if a certain opportunity presents itself, they can't resist -- familar story with WS's -- <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> They may have an illness of sorts - not a bad person, but a sick person --
Well, this may be where you are coming from, are you wondering if your W's value system does not put a big priority on the speciality of se*ual realtionship with your S -- Just in general, niot you specifically, but just her enral sense of things -- the value of a "monagomous" realtionship?
This can be a marital enrichment exercise --- My W for example said se felt it was safe because the one guy was married & the other had a steady girlfriend - WOW, some logic, huh?! They say lots of weird stuff to protect their own self image, which in many case suffers and that can be a big contributing factor for all this to begin with!
With the potential for an A -- this is as tuff as it gets in many respects -- You will feel absolutely destroyed. Now the ironey is that the WS can actually feel validated that someone else finds tem attractive and all & with the secrecacy and all it can add to the romantic feeling --something forbidden - now put yourslef in their shoes -- they have an insecure, doubting, needy, acccusatory husband -- not much fun --
I am saying it might be best to prepare for the worst news & beginning your recovery now -- w or w/o the A, you have put yourself in an unfavorable light in some regards.
I believe it is imperative to contiunue to go to the counselor -- you have to do everything possible to remain positive, energetic, charming and whatever else to be appealing to your W - Plan A. This is not fair, I know.
I would also highly recommend James Dobson's book, "Love Must Be Tough" -- don't tell your W about this book - this is your secret --
This other address thing -- how long of a drive is it-- can you go by yourslef --check out the mail thing -- Ask your Counselot about this - how to discuss with W -- Independent of an A - good marital relationshio would call for policy of openness & honesty!
If she is having an A or contempating, this can of course have a big negative effect on her attitude towards the M. This is to say she may be in a Fog as we say. This is many times a temporary thing - if she is cheating & you bust her, All these dynamics can change -- this is why it is helpful for you to prepare now!
She could say, OK - I'm bolting & run to the other guy or she could fall to her knees & beg for mercy -- usually somewhere in between. ALthough, pride or whatever, it seems they seldom do the latter.
Primary focus ideally is on you - you are the "injured" party here -- It seems this has become an issue with you than is not going away -- you have a need to explore -- I am saying do some preventaive maintenaince kinds of things before implementing war like stratagies.
Having said all of that I would tend to want to porceed with investagative stuff -- you are not the first guy this has happened to of course & do not get overly concerned with your worries -- given what you have said, I too would be concerned!!
If she is having an A, it may not be this guy - she may be throwing up a trial baloon of sorts -- DO you have the ability to leave work during the day. You might vary your schedule -- come home early -- late -- leave late -- if she is cheating, she may rely on your predicable schedule. If your scedule gets unpredictable, then you might find she is calling you more to see what your plans are.
The telephone taping thing is easy - Radio Shack has equipment -- just tell them you want to record phone calls & they'll fix you right up!
Good luck man! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
HH

I would definately check it out. If you investigate you can find out one way or another. Some good methods are computer spy software, www.iopus.com, and Radio Shack recorders on your phone. That should clear matters up.

The others are right about trusting your gut. I ignored mine to my own peril and will never do it again. I used to consider gut instincts no more valid than silly superstition. Now I view them as a spiritual warning system that is designed to protect us. Never again will ignore those feelings again because they were DEAD RIGHT all along. I could have saved myself enormous grief had I listened to them.

Well, if my head wasn't spinning before it sure is now. Had told W that if she had A would rather her tell me than it coming out from another source. I do love my wife and feel terible guilt for the way I was too focused on my company and other things in life that I neglected her ENs. Told her that I would still stay by her side and that we need to continue moving forward, but I just needed the truth.

She says that she needs the secercy in her life for her own independence and her personality. That she feel that if I'm backing her into a corner and that there is nothing that I don't know about her. She still swears that she has never been unfaithful since our first date.

I do love her and so want to trust her, yet I have this nawing feeling in the gut that something was just not right. I hope that I'm not creating too big of a LB that she will feel compelled to turn to someone else.

I do enjoy her increased sexual energy and desire to please and when we discussed this...her reply..was that she does not feel as inhibited as in the past and she has become more comfortable and changed her outlook on life. Which I have seen a drastic change in her the last couple years. She no longer has to spend large sums of money on designer clothing and purses. Then again how many Channel bags can you use. So I do appreciatiate this desire to simplfy her life.

Something that I don't understand from several of your post was the concept that if this was the past then why worry about it since she wants to move forward. Does that not bo against the MB concept. Does that mean that if I had several affairs (didn't) years ago that now I should not be honest about them since they happened so long ago?

Think she could be worried about telling my if it is the case for the fear of what I would do to any individual that I caught. But had told her I would not harm anyone, would just want to move forward.

Thanks so much for everyones help.

I also said something about taking the lie detector test and she agreed but then informed my that I must be pitiful to feel the need for such a test and that I don't trust her. She tried to turn it around that I was evil by needing to do this test but that she would take it. Think it was an attempt to make me go no that ok dear you don't have to take the test.

She get so defensive when we talk about this...she usually offers two reasons for my doubts of her fidlity

1.That I want to get rid of her and just looking for an excuse.

2. I had admited to her somethings that I was not proud of and now I'm trying to make her look worse than me.

She says she just wants to enjoy life and our time together is whats important that what was past does not matter.

Maybee I should accept the fact that she loves me and is faithful now and the past does not matter.

This has been driving me crazy for the last few weeks, is this a noraml reaction or am I over reacting?

I am afraid that you have your answer. She only agreed to the lie detector test assuming that you would never call her on it. As soon as you agreed she immediately tells you that you are pitiful and you do not trust her. This is classic manipulation. She never had any intention of taking the test because she is fearful it would reveal the truth. I would still schedule the test and again I predict she will not take it. I am afraid your gut feeling was correct. Unfortunately she does not realize that by being truthful it is the only way to truly rebuild. Lies and secrets are like a cancer in a relationship and will eventualy destroy the relationship. It is sad that she does not understand this but at least you now know the answer to your question. I wish you luck.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by tornheart:
<strong>

She says she just wants to enjoy life and our time together is whats important that what was past does not matter.

?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">torn,

She is right that you should try and enjoy your time together now. And the way for you to do that is be reassured of her honesty and trustworthiness, via a lie detector. She has this great opportunity to prove her trustworthiness and clear her name. That will make her feel better and make you trust her! And that is what she wants, to be trusted.

She did finaly agree with great trepidation and said she cannot believe that she has to take a test.
Think I might forget about it...she is leaving this week to visit family at the coast...think I might tell her to leave early today...that we need some time to consider things and think about our life. So will see how she take me telling her to leave early and that I think it might be best.

Today has been a wasted effort. Had so many things I wanted to accomplish but have been unable. Not only has there been fears about a possible A but did have some other personal tragedy that came up this week.
So head is spinning and heart is still torn apart. Part of me wants to believe the W when she says that she has been faithfull since the day we met...yet that internal gut feeling tells me something otherwise. She did say it was pitiful that we have to go through the test in order to prove her honest, but she will do this inorder for us to move forward. She just feels that I have backed her into a corner with my concerns about her past and a possible A. Will admit my W is not like most woman that I have known in my life, she has always been very independent, and a leader. She was the capt. of the chearleaders and countless other things of that nature.
W is incredible inteligent so if A had happened know that it would be very hard to prove. She would never have anyone to the house and would never do a lot of the things that people do in regards to mistakes. She even made the comment do you really think I would be stupid enough to use the computer or cell phone if I was going to have an A.
Hate to keep whinning on this subject but yet I do feel so torn apart.

I run the emotional guantlet from it doesn't matter what she did to if she did have A I will not stay with her...to the desire to track down who ever this OM was and show him the pain I have felt.