Hello,
I am back again and had to make a list of what I view as hope. I also made a list of those things that concern me deeply. I am still studying the lb principles and believe I am doing better at not Lbing and providing a loving atmosphere for us.

Good things

1. He says he loves me. He thinks we have a strong marriage that can withstand anything.
2. He make future plans with me (children, house, upcoming holidays).
3. He has been opening up more about his feelings.
4. He is willing to read materials about strengthening marriage.
5. He tells me everyday I am good for him, that he likes being with me, that I would be irreplaceable.
6. He has agreed to no phone contact with online friends unless we agree and I am in the room (He has male friends too).
7. I have only been actively working on a plan A for a few weeks and I see glimpses of him getting better in some ways.
8. He wants to take time off work to spend time with me. He spoke of drive ins, going for walks, working out an exercise program for us.
9. In the online game, he is excited that my character will be high enough for him to group with soon so we can play together. He has been sending me love messages online when I am on the computer.
10. He bought a new computer game for us to play together (not online but me vs him via our network). The OW had asked him to buy a different computer game and play with her online but he has not bought that game and doesn’t seem to want to.

Bad Things

1. I can tell he still speaks to her on the computer but he doesn’t look as happy doing it.
2. He still locks his computer up like ft. Knox and has trouble being completely open.
3. He is still playing computer games that are online rather but more and more is playing computer games that are not online (computer games are a recreation we share together and we often will play together, share strategies and talk about them).
4. He still will not acknowledge the danger of their relationship although we have spoken about predators on the net and people not being what they seem.
5. He still is in the fog and will blame me for my suspicions rather than really seeing that his behavior is such that would arouse suspicion in anyone.
6. He gets jealous when I am online and so I tell him to come and read the messages I get from others so he need not be concerned, and genuinely offer not to group with others if he finds it offensive. He does this to try to convince me that he is the same way, and he isn’t doing anything either but he does not offer for me to read his in game chat logs or offer for me to read his messages. I hope that someday he will feel he can be that open, but for that to happen he will have to change the way he behaves, both he and I know that.

For now I have decided to not snoop. I dont like doing it and I cant handle it without emotion. I want to give him time to alter his behavior and will strive to get him off the computer in other ways, loving ways. We have spoken about online boundaries and I did describe what I thought was is appropriate between friends. I believe I caught him early, in that he started all this at a time when he was desparate to cope with our losses. He is now on anti-depressants and seems to be trying to get his behavior under control. From the icq messages I read before he knew, he had tried twice to end his relationship with woman. I know this is an emotional affair but now that it kinda blew up and he realizes he could lose me over this, it isnt as harmless as he once thought. I think he is trying to make it more harmless. The OW is also a cake eater in that she just wants this online and says her marriage is happy and that their relationship can only be online and they are just friends. At any rate that I hope he can do what is best for us. I do have faith in this man for I love him very much. I see how upset it gets him, I am trying to help him find alternate coping skills as well as build my own to strengthen our marriage.

<small>[ July 25, 2002, 11:56 PM: Message edited by: Luci ]</small>

Luci,

I know this is hard but it sounds like you are handling it well.

Have you also read "His Needs, Her Needs" and "Surviving an Affair"?

Zorweb, I hate chat now too. I have all three books and read them all. I am now reading lovebusters with H. We have only read the first chapter. He has agreed to continue but I don't want to make it a demand. Part of what I need from this process even in plan A is a willingness on his part. I can't control his behavior, I can only convey how I feel about what I think he is doing, he always counters with "What evidence do you have I am doing this?" Umm well none beside what I had already read and past phone bills. No new stuff because I can't access his computers. If I could Im sure I could have details. I will await next month's cell phone bill and see if he adheres to his promise. Of course you can buy phone cards these days so that is no guarrentee, but in a few months, if I still feel he is hiding and being suspicious, I will find a means to get more evidence(keyboard monitor device or some such). For now, I will give him some time to resolve this on his own. Once I am working again, I will be in a better position to move to plan B if necessary. I hope its not. I really hate this.
Luci

I there such a thing as the "game of life" on the computer/internet? H says he and OW played it on computer, that is all he would tell me. In one of his emails he addresed OW as "huntress". In the online games that you guys are familiar with do people have names such as "huntress"? He is not in the habit of using such terms except with OW. I am quite sure there is a lot he has not told me, just need to educate myself for future.

replaced

I have not heard of the game of life. But its typical in these games for women to pick sexy names. The women who want these types of relationships. I cant believe how easy it is. I just found out my H has been having problems with one of his online chickies, so he has already started courting another. With both he seems like he is trying to break it off one day and coming back the next.

The response to "What evidence do you have I am doing this?" is:

Given your past behaviors, I need to know what you are doing and going to do to make me feel protected, cared for and like you are being honest with me. What are you going to do to make me know it’s safe for me to stay with you? What are you going to do to prove that you are being honest with me? When are you going to not hide things from me on your computer?

Trust is not a given, it is earned. Now that his transgression is well known you don’t have to prove anything to him.

In response to this my H gave me the passwords to all of his computers, email accounts, IM accounts. And he installed keystroke-tracking software on his computer. He knew he had to earn my trust back. He also agreed to never chat or email with a woman outside of the family again. Yes he works with woman but I am aware of his communications with them as he does this openly. And he knew that if I did not feel safe I as leaving. To be fair to him I did the same with all of my computer stuff. We now follow the Harley rule of no privacy in our marriage. It’s very liberating.

Quite honestly, you H has to know that he is going to loose you over this. That while you are willing to work with him some; this is not a life style you are going to put up with for a lifetime.

Have you thought about a time limit? The amount of time you are willing to Plan A. When would you consider going to Plan B? This is important, as it will help you pase your efforts.

I suggest that you not wait a few months before you do more snooping you feel a need to. The reason is that this behavior has gone on for a long time. After some time it becomes a lifestyle and he will feel no need to change. He will feel that though you are not wild about his behavior, you accept it.

Your H is acting like a cakeman. He wants both of you. The only way he is going to give her up is if he feels he is truly going to lose you. Right now he seems to think that he can keep both of you. It’s too easy and comfortable for him.

AS for the lack of willingness on his side… you may want to look at the Divorce Busting material. In particular the two books “Divorce Busting” and “Getting Through to the Man You Love”. There is a rewrite of “Divorce Busting” called “Divorce Remedy”. While the rewrite it good.. the original “Divorce Busting” has more of the explanation of why the concepts work. IMHO the divorce busting material fits right in the MB. MB gives the overall framework for Plan A and building a good marriage, while DB gives great ideas on how to go about this on a daily basis.

Her idea is that one person can save a marriage. That if one spouse changes their behavior the other will be forced to changes, it will force the other to change. It’s like dancing… if a couple is going along waltzing and one of them changes the steps to a jitterbug, the other has to do something. They certainly cannot keep waltzing.

My heart goes out to you. I don’t know if I could do it one day if my H had maintained contact. I did it in my last marriage by just ignoring everything. It was the only way I could survive. I don’t want to just survive anymore.

Luci, I just read your last post. If he is moving on to more then one woman this is getting really bad. I am so sorry. It amazes me how many woman are out there doing this. No wonder he will not let you near his computer.

I read somewhere that something incredible like 10% of all marriages are experiencing problems with computer infidelity these days.

Thanks for the info, MelodyLane. I checked the web site you mentioned, and I liked what I saw there. I think I'm going to end up getting that program real soon... like, as soon as my WW is out of the house long enough to get it done.

She's installed Everquest on her computer again. I don't think she knows that I know about this. See, I've learned that it's a *real* bad sign around here when I come home and WW pops up from her computer right away, shuts off her monitor immediately and comes rushing at me, all affectionate and all smiles. It usually means there's something on her computer she doesn't want me to see. And I was able to confirm it while she was out of sight in another room for a while... turned on the monitor, and there it was. The ever-hated (by me) Everquest.

I knew she had the door propped open for a return to Evercrack even though she said she was giving it up. She had install disks hidden in the house. I found them, and scratched the hell out of the shiny side and covered the shiny side with black permanent marker too. This past Monday she found out that I found out about her secret stash when she tried and failed to load Everquest on her computer again using those hidden CDs.

She was reinstalling Evercrack because she was pissed at me for trying to get her to promise not to kill herself. See, she'd been very depressed about giving up her online OM and EQ (compounded by grieving over a loved family member that passed away), and lately she'd been keeping knives near her computer. I saw messages she sent to friends saying that she had been pressing the knives to her wrists and been toying with the idea of making vertical cuts to commit suicide. When I saw those messages, I went to her psychologist (who happens to be my shrink too, conveniently enough), told him about it, and was advised to get her to promise that she wouldn't kill herself at least until after she saw her shrink at his office.

I didn't want to reveal that I was snooping on her email, but she gave me the opportunity to ask for that promise when she brought up the subject of her suicide fantasies to me. She didn't want to promise even after I asked her three times, and I guess the attempt to get that promise got her angry and led to the decision to load up EQ on her computer again. I can only imagine how pissed off she must have been when her install CDs weren't working.

I called her shrink and told him that WW wasn't going to make the promise I asked for, and he got WW to come and see him at his office that same day. Later that day when I got home from work, I found a written promise taped to the door that WW was not going to kill or harm herself. I also found a smiling, affectionate and loving wife on the other side of that door. Which, as I've said before, throws up a red flag for me these days... this is way too early for her to be past her withdrawal from her OM and Everquest. But it did give me the chance to practice Plan A and make as many deposits into her love account as I could.

Later than night, she asks about the possibility of buying Everquest install CDs that work. I tell her "No." She sounds petulant and says "Yes." I say "No." We went back and forth like that for a while, until she finally says, still petulant, "I guess I don't have to play Everquest."

She brought up the possibility of starting up Everquest again a few more times this past week, saying that she feels like she can keep it to no more than an hour a day or something like that. Which sounds to me like an alcoholic saying he or she can go back to social drinking after spending a week off the bottle. I told her "I am not getting on that roller-coaster ride with you again." She later tells me "You know, just because I say that I like Everquest and I miss it, that doesn't mean I'm planning on going back to it."

Well, guess what? She did go back to it. And she's doing her damnedest to keep it hidden. At least for now.

My plan with WW was to move from Plan A to Plan B as soon as I found out that she was playing Evercrack again. That was the main reason I damaged her hidden stash... so she'd react to it and I'd know by her reaction that she was planning on putting it on her computer again. But here's the problem I'm running into... she's not playing Evercrack while I'm home, and while I *am* home she's suddenly doing a pretty good job of meeting my ENs. She's talking to me, spending time with me, giving me the affection and SF I crave... but what's the motivation? Is she being a loving and caring wife now, only about a week into her withdrawal from her online OM (which is supposed to be the end of the worst symptoms, to be fair) and is she now going to be playing Everquest a much more reasonable amount of time and less compulsively without contacting her online OM in the game or having other online As in the game? Or is she just trying to keep me from being suspicious, just bribing me with the ENs she knows I want met so she can go back to her old ways without me checking up on her?

This is why I now need to get that computer monitoring software in place as soon as I can. She's being deceptive about having Everquest on her computer. She reinstalled EQ after saying she was giving it up for good, and knowing that I would not be happy about it. What else is she not telling me?

I was able to look at her computer before I posted this... Everquest isn't installed on her computer now. I had a feeling that she was planning on installing Evercrack while I wasn't home and then uninstalling it before I'd get home to prevent discovery. If this is the case, I can't get transcripts of what the messages she sends and receives by turning on EQ's built in message logging function. One more reason why I need the monitoring software at this point.

Benfoldsfan…. Oh my gosh. That is exactly what my H. is doing. He has been trying super super hard to be Mr. Affection when I come to visit him by his computer. When I read what your wife was doing, it was so similar. It raises red flags with me too.

My strategy is slightly different from yours however, since my husband and I play games together, I do not feel justified in telling him he has to stop his favorite hobby. I just want him to play responsibly. I also know that he is trying to his best and right now I feel it is a success if we play another game (not DAOC which is similar to Everquest, but if hes in DAOC, so am I.), or go watch a movie.

More things on a positive note, we began an exercise program together and have been spending alone time together not in the computer room (going out to dinner, lighting candles and talking, watching movies). He has begun to realize how dissatisfied I have been with the current status of things. He has also begun to tell me whatever he is talking about when he is typing on the computer when I ask, and sometimes he volunteers. Still not complete honesty but progress.

I have still been monitoring his email when I get a chance and he still gets messages but more and more they are arguments about him not making someone happy. One OW though said she said its too bad he cant be lusty anymore. She asked if it hurt his wife and then noted that she didn’t care if it did. Nice. I don’t know what he replied to that yet as we have been together too much and haven’t been able to check. The opportunity will arise and I will.

It really is an addiction. On my part I have been being as supportive as I can be I wrote him a love letter the other day and he really liked it. I also send a love email today with a picture I knew he would like. I think knowing him better than anyone else has its benefits. I know what he likes, these women can only type what they think “men” like.

I still get very down. I mean I wish It didn’t have to be like this. I wish he could just stop because it hurts me but I have come to realize that it took time to develop and it will take time to stop it. I feel less concerned that he is ready to run off with any of these women and feel rather it is like a string of one night online stands that boost his ego. Still a problem but at least he’s not pineing away for any one, just the reinforcement he feels it gives him. With these women giving love busters, his guilt for what hes doing, and me being as nice as I can be, I think I see a little progress. Baby steps though, baby steps.

We have read the chapter on selfish demands, and talked about some issues. We have spoken of plans and past decisions and I feel like we have emphasized some of our strengths and weaknesses. I hope to continue that.

We have also created a phrase that means we have to stop discussing an issue because emotions are taking over and there is danger that we will begin to say things that we don’t mean. “I need to collect my thoughts”. It doesn’t mean the issue is resolved but rather that conversation at this point is no longer productive.
Luci

Last few days H. has been making great efforts to be attentive and discuss issues. I was feeling better. Today I came home from running errands and I think I caught him on the phone having phone sex. There was evidence of this. He swears he wasn't but then admitted to masturbating and he was embarassed because I caught him. I have never been offended by this and so didn't understand why he would be so wierd about it. I told him I thought he was having phone sex with someone and if he was, he needed to be honest. I was calm, I was supportive. This then led to a long discussion of the state of things. I want to believe he is sincerely trying. His words and some of his behaviors seem to indicate he is. However, I dont know if its just lies to cover up what he is doing. Its evident he doesnt want to leave, but at the same time, he is acting and doing wiggy things without explanation. He has committed to working on issues using Harleys concepts but I am just so afraid he is just trying to pacify me. Some of his behaviors have changed and he is trying to work on his issues and admits to having troubles with it. Am I seeing progress where there is none? Is this progress or am I just wanting it to work out so badly that I am easily satisfied?

Luci

Well I'm still here. Wish I could say that now that my husband knows I know, that he stopped all inappropriate online behavior. He hasn't. I just don't get it. We have been having great talks, better intimacy, and agreed on things that are wrong. Yet if I snoop just a little I can see its still going on! Its milder, less frequent, but yet its still there. He has taken the tact to reassure me daily to assuage my "paranoia" that he doesnt want anyone more than me, that he loves me and will never leave me and that his life is with me. He has agreed we should work on making our marriage better and is even reading stuff and discussing stuff with me. One night, I just asked again why he needed these online women. I ended up calling one. She was very nice to me and told me they were just friends. I kinda babbled. I was not blaming or accusatory but just wanted to understand. I guess you cant. Right now he is playing the game with one of them. He looks over smiles and says he loves me. Im so confused!

Luci

If he has changed or is trying to change, as he says he is, then his life should be an open book to you...even his on-line life. There doesn't ned to be actual physical contact for it to be an affair. From your ongoing posts I'd say he's still involved with someone. He also seems to be trying to reassure or calm you...to make you less suspicious??? My FWH A started as an online A. I know ALL passwords to ALL accts. and programs. He knows mine as well, fair is fair. Trust and respect are things one earns...I think he has forgotten that!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Luci:
<strong>Once I found out that my husband was flirting online. I was shocked. Deeply saddened but completely completely shocked. To be open about it (as open as he can be… he tends to lie when confronted). He has said he feels it is his problem and hates that it hurts me. He feels that its just ego stroking and does not show lack of loyalty to me (we disagree on this). He feels our marriage is perfect (if I could just live with this one little thing and he feels it is a little thing, I don’t.) I say I feel it isn’t a little thing and we need to work on it more, until we can agree and we can both live with it. He agrees.

I would really like to contact this woman’s husband. I mean he is probably as in the dark as I was. I feel this is just my desire for someone else to have to take responsibility and my inability to direct the anger solely at my husband. I would like her world shook up as she is shaking up mine. Unfortunately, I know where she works but no last name. This is more a fantasy for me, but I really hope Karma exists. I mean she knew what my H and I were going through and she swooped in when he was at his weakest. She even knew me from our online guild. She doesn’t know the truth though, my H doesn’t speak of me to her or of any real issues. He just wants compliments and love messages from her, not any real insight into his life because he doesn’t speak of real life, he speaks only of fantasies. She tries to get real information, and my husband, the artful dodger uses his abilities to dodge the question. He is really good at that.

Any thoughts?

Luci</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hi Luci! I see you have one of those "Do as I say not as I do" kinds. What's good for the goose is NOT good for the gander etc. So, I wonder what he would say if YOU told him that you had an 'online friend' too and that he was telling you nice things etc. to make you feel better, etc. but for him to not worry, as it's just an online friendship, etc. etc. Your hubby is IN THE FOG. I too, had an online EA last year - and said/did all the same things - I can speak from experience - your husband is SO WRONG!!!! Online friends do nothing but BUST UP marriages - they're best left for SINGLE PEEPS looking for love, but then again, I'm sure you already knew that. Now if your hubby would just see that - and get some good Marriage Counseling - things would improve with you both. My wife (God bless her for speaking the truth in LOVE to me) said when she discovered my EA online: "I love you, but you need to choose - HER or ME - you can't have us both." This meant NO CONTACT for any reason, change email address and IM Screen Name. I chose my wife and immediately did all the above, with a No-contact final email to her. She replied and I ignored it and then BLOCKED her address - haven't heard from her since and I DON'T want to! We immediately went into Marriage Counseling and a few months later, I discovered MarriageBuilders. I've read many of Dr. Harley's books, and also as a couple, we read them together. I'm sorry - I didn't mean to take up all this time, but I wanted to tell you there IS HOPE - if your husband will work with you. YOU have Emotional Needs and so does your husband. IF and IF you sit down and talk Emotional Needs over - and use the Policy Of Radical Honesty - you have a good fighting chance of getting thru this in one piece and stronger on the other side. Your husband has to do this with you. 5 Love Needs Of Men & Women, Guard Your Heart, are 2 excellent books to read together as Husband & Wife. Please read them.
May God Bless you and your Husband!
Harold

Luvdatbaby

Yes. My husband is deep in a fog. He knows that he doesnt want me to do the same with an online friend. In fact, I go in game when he is in game and he often comes over and wants to see who I am with or talking to. I model appropriate behavior and show him, and tell him. I joined an all female guild that is basically comprised of females that think its pathetic that men hit on you all the time and there are women in game with such low self esteem that they feel they must surround themselves with anonymous men. Pretty much all the females in the guild are in committed relationships with men that game so we are all pretty savy about what goes on online in these games. We know our presence there deters them somewhat. We also like to game and like to game with our spouses.

He knows what he is doing is inappropriate. However, he also seems to have no control over his behavior. It certainly seems like an addiction to me. He has been trying. We discussed that he has slipped back into old coping behaviors that are only appropriate for a single man. He knows but still does this. Emotionally, he is working his way out of a depression but working against himself by doing things that make him hate himself. He will not see a counselor. I have suggested that as well.

I have told him that I will not share him with online women. He claims I am not. I read and know I am. I am not at a point where I can leave, I dont have the strength. I know he loves me. I really dont think he has any deep feelings for these online women. He lies to them all the time. I spoke to one. She thinks they are just friends too. He doesnt know I spoke to her, she said she wouldnt tell him. We shall see.

The fact he really doesnt consider these "real" affairs just makes it harder to counter. He has always had a love hate relationship with people he has met online. Males too. That just makes it worse for me, I mean what kind of person needs that kind of attention.

For myself, I have been examining my own behavior and trying very hard not to lb and striving to meet his emotional needs. He did fill out the questionaire for me. Often he breaks down partially and becomes very upset and says how sorry he is. He is not always specific about what he is sorry for but he knows in his heart. Im sure of it. I guess that is what gives me hope that he can someday recover. I would love no contact. I would love if he would give me access to all his files. I suggested that to him once and he totally freaked out. That night I thought it was over, but then the next day he was mr perfect husband doting on me and trying to show me how hard he was trying.

Funny thing is, my husband is an addiction counselor. It isnt helping with his ability to deal with this addiction. Of course, first you have to admit its a problem. So far, my h has been able to admit it is a problem for me (because it hurts me) but he doesnt see how much it is destroying himself. I mean how much cognitive dissonance can you experience before you have a meltdown. You really cant love your wife and feel its okay to send these types of messages to multiple women.

Today is the one year anniversary of our son's death. I am trying to remain positive and am planning a nice day for us. When my husband is off the computer, he is very loving and the man I want to be with. He has been spending less time on the computer but yet when he is there these women are waiting (two I know of). Sometimes they even complain because he isnt very loving to them. I can see they are lbing to him. I can only hope that this type of affair dies down too, but I am afraid it is a deeply engrained coping mechanism he has always used in times of stress. Losing the children led him down this road. Now that I am better (from illness) I hope I can help him battle this addiction. My biggest fear is my love bank will deplete before he can wake up. I really do love him very much, but I know this cannot go on forever.

Luci

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Luci:
<strong>
I have told him that I will not share him with online women. He claims I am not. I read and know I am. I am not at a point where I can leave, I dont have the strength. I know he loves me. I really dont think he has any deep feelings for these online women. He lies to them all the time.

The fact he really doesnt consider these "real" affairs just makes it harder to counter.

Funny thing is, my husband is an addiction counselor. It isnt helping with his ability to deal with this addiction. Of course, first you have to admit its a problem. So far, my h has been able to admit it is a problem for me (because it hurts me) but he doesnt see how much it is destroying himself. I mean how much cognitive dissonance can you experience before you have a meltdown. You really cant love your wife and feel its okay to send these types of messages to multiple women.

Luci</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I quoted the parts of your post that I wanted to respond to... I'm looking to do a compare and contrast kind of thing with our experiences.

I nearly went into shock when I read about your husband being an addiction counselor... that's what my WW trained to be! She has a degree in social work and alcoholism counseling and she planned to work as an addiction counselor. Her experiences interning as an alcoholism counselor kinda burned her out on the idea... good thing she had her burnout early before she was even more committed to that career path. Now she's a research assistant at an institution that studies alcoholism, so she's still using her degrees that way.

I've had friends tell me that, just as doctors make the worst patients, my WW's training as an addiction counselor is really getting in the way of her admitting that her Everquest playing is a problem. It's easy for her to say something like "I'm trained as an addiction counselor, I know addictions, and this ain't it." As you've said, she can see that what's happening with her Evercrack playing and her online OM hurts me, but that can be (and has been) blamed on me being irrational, controlling, needy... whatever puts responsibility for the problems in our marriage squarely on my shoulders.

The good news is that as far as I can tell... and I've been checking *very* carefully... she hasn't played any Everquest at home for almost a week now. Same goes for messages to and from her online OM... nothing in or out on her computer. But there's still her computer (and her phone) at work to think about. She's said that she won't be contacting him... but I've seen her send a half-hearted request to someone she knows from Everquest to tell the OM to keep tabs on a public newsgroup that she posts on. I think it's about time to ask her that Plan A question again... "Have you been in contact with the OM?" and this time throw in "Have you asked any of your Everquest friends to give the OM any messages?" and see what response that gets. As far as I can tell, she's always been honest before when asked a question about her OM directly.

Another difference with my WW is that, while she has had cybersex with many different people while playing Everquest, she does have one in particular, her OM, who she's obsessed with. I'd say that they both consider each other soulmates... and we know that that's the hardest kind of A to deal with. But her many other cybersex partners helped her to feel attractive and desired by a large group of people, something that's been missing for her for just about all of her life. So, yeah, I'd have to say that Admiration is high on her EN list... probably even #1. And admiration is so much easier to obtain in the Everquest world than real life... if you have a way with words (especially if you're a flirtatious female), that and a few thousand mouse clicks a day will get you all the ego boosts you could ever want and more on EQ.

Right now she's playing The Sims compulsively for hours a day on her computer, probably to help fill the void left by not playing Everquest. One thing that worries me is hearing the news that The Sims will sometime in the not-too-distant future be turned into a huge multiplayer online game similar to Everquest... but that's a worry for another time. We'll burn that bridge when we come to it.

And you're absolutely right about the problem of online A's not being considered a problem. My WW has typed something similar to this while on Everquest: "It drives my husband crazy, but I consider cybersex to be harmless fun." When she's spending countless hours on EQ and instant message programs at home, often late at night, actively pursuing a sexual and intimate relationship with another man, that's a problem. When I'm being kept awake by her late-night sessions with her OM, both by the noise from her computer and her absence from our bed, that's a problem too. When my WW re-enacts things with the two of us in bed that she talked about with her OM, then rushes out of bed to tell her OM all about what happened... you'd better believe that's a problem. And when she sends him digital photos that graphically depict me and my WW in sexual acts... *BIG* problem!

She's told me recently that she "accepts my jurisdiction" over our sex life and that's why she's broken contact with her OM. She kept sneaking sessions of Everquest behind my back until I confronted her. She told me that she didn't think it was right for me to decide what games she can or can't play. I told her that Everquest is what started the problems between us and could easily be a problem again even if she keeps her OM out of the picture as she said she would. I told her that I did not intend to get back on that roller-coaster ride again, and if Everquest started taking over her life again, she could go live somewhere else and have all the freedom in the world to play whatever she wants however long she wants.

That shook her up, and that's when she stopped playing EQ again. Now comes the revisionist history... "Every time I find something that's fun for me, you take it away from me." Or "I've had crushes on other people before... the only difference between [OM] and the others is that he liked me too." And the one that really gets to me lately is seeing WW complain to all kinds of people about not being allowed to contact her OM and always referring to him as "a friend." When she tells the story, I'm dictating what friends she can or can't have. Now if she were to describe her OM to her friends using some of the other names she's used in the past... "special friend... *wink wink*", "big brother... *wink wink*", "soulmate", "lover"... and "Master" when they were acting out the S&M games online that they loved... then she'd be telling the story just a little bit more accurately.

My WW keeps portraying the situation as her being the long-suffering one who's making all kinds of sacrifices to keep the peace with her demanding husband. I keep Plan Aing as best I can, when she'll accept love deposits from me. I keep hoping that I'll get the chance to respectfully dispute some of this revisionist history that I'm overhearing. I keep hoping that with an end to the withdrawal and a lifting of the "fog" will come an understanding what's happening now is not being caused by my "childhood issues"... she had an online affair, she hurt and betrayed me badly with her words and her actions, and I need her help to make things better between us so something like this doesn't happen again. I need her to own up to her responsibility for what happened and stay away from her OM and Everquest out of love and respect, instead of grudgingly "accepting my jurisdiction".

[crying now]
Dammit, WW, I love you... I've done nothing wrong and I'm being punished for what's happened! I want the same love and concern and protection you've given me before when I've been hurting... but it isn't there. And now I'm hurting more than I ever have in the 10 1/2 years we've been together.

Please. Let me know I'm not going through all this torture now just so I can be hit by the same freight train again somewhere down the line. Help me love, believe and trust you again.

BenFoldsfan

It is quite a coincidence that both our spouses are addiction counselors and can’t see the impact of this behavior on their lives. Last night we had an event. As I had mentioned earlier, I called one of his online woman and asked her what she thought the nature of their relationship was. She too said they were just friends. I defined what I thought was a friend and she said that is what they were. I said friends don’t send love messages to one another and talk about the types of things they want to do to one another. She claimed she wasn’t doing anything like that with my husband. She was lieing. I also let her know that we weren’t separated and I think revealed some other things that she had no idea about. I was very nice, I didn’t judge her or my H. I told her I was just confused because he says he loves me and we were planning on having children and I needed to know what was going on before I made these decisions. Anyway she promised she wouldn’t mention the call to my husband and I hung up. Well I didn’t think she would keep that promise, and she didn’t. Last night she told my H. I called. It had been 4 days.
My husband asked if I had called her. I said Yes. I have never seen him so mad before. He was so angry he could barely talk. His face was twitching and he was looking at me with such anger. I kept calm. He asked me what we talked about. I told him. Furious typing on his end talking to the OW. He then said, so she just verified what I have been telling you about us just being friends. I said no, that she said you said we were separated and you no longer loved me. He said that he never said that. I know he did because I read it. He may not remember, I don’t know. I told him exactly what I had read of his, you would think he would have looked it over so he could address the points. He said I am very angry that you did this. I can’t believe you did this. I said, I know you think that all the computer interaction is harmless, but its not, it is hurting our relationship and it affects your behavior all the time. I don’t understand why you cannot see it. I told him that he himself told me that he thought his relationship with her was inappropriate and that he would not want me to have a similar relationship. I told him that I had been very clear that I would not share him in that way with online women. I felt that I was within my rights to find out what was going on. He said and she told you we were just friends. I said I knew that she said that but I didn’t say I believed her. I did not think they were behaving as friends would. He then quit the game and just sat there angry. When he left the room, I went and sat outside. A few minutes later he came outside, asked what I was doing, and I said just sitting here. He then said, well I will be in the bedroom ( a signal that he wanted to talk).

Here is where I was just shocked. He told me that he was very angry with me for doing that. I said that I was sorry that I didn’t tell him. I told him I was afraid of his reaction. I said will you forgive me for that. I asked that he vent and talk about his feelings on the matter. He said I am not going to yell at you. He said I have already forgiven you. I said that I do not do these things to hurt him but rather to understand why he is doing these things. I told him that I was territorial when it comes to him and feel that as his wife, I have a reason to be concerned about his relationships with other women. Then for the rest of the night he was really nice to me. He did not play his online game at all and instead we ate dinner and played non online games together.

It was weird. I think that he and Kit argued. I think she confronted him on the lies he told her. I think it was over already but this just put the nails in the coffin. Now, what I don’t know is how my husband feels about this. I don’t know if he now acknowledges the problems it causes us or if he is just hiding his feelings. I should also note that he also picked a fight with the other online woman. I think he is less vested in that one. It may be that these relationships crumbling has made him more aware that he could lose me over this. I have been clear. I have also been clear that I love him and want to meet his needs.

With your wife, it seems she also admits a partial problem and is more honest about the OM. Everything I find out, I find out on my own. I too have played the sims. I have ordered two books about cybersex and the recent research on them and how to deal with this issue. I will let you know if they are any good.

Its painful going through this. I know my husband is depressed and I know he is trying. I hate that it has to be so painful but this is a tug of war that I want to win. You are right about how they like to paint themselves as the victim, my husband does the same thing. He makes it seem like I am crazy jealous over nothing and that it is my behavior of trying to deal with this issue that is the root of the problem. I believe that part of him knows it isn’t, at least I hope that is what I am seeing.

It does seem like you are making progress with your wife. She has stopped, and is at least trying to find an alternative coping mechanism. Hang in there, I know its painful. I feel the pain too. Thanks for sharing.

Luci

Good news this time around... looks like progress is being made!

WW and I had a joint session with our shrink a couple of nights ago. I think a heck of a lot got said that needed to be said... I was able to talk about my feelings of being punished by her for insisting that she stop her online As and her Everquest playing. There's a long story behind the revelation that came up in that session that I won't go into right now... I'll only say that my WW broke down in tears when our shrink brought up the idea that most of what she's been doing that's been driving a wedge between me and her had started back in March after a revelation came up in an individual session with the shrink and WW that she hasn't wanted to talk about or work on with him since then. What our shrink's theory boils down to is that just about everything she's been doing since March... the compulsive Everquest playing, the cybersex, the online A with her online OM, and all kinds of other things... was all a defense mechanism to distract herself from her revelations in her individual therapy sessions that frighten her. She tearfully agreed. He said to WW while I was present: "Well, I guess we know what we need to be working on with you, right [WW]?".

She was so quiet, like she was in shock, the rest of that night... in the two days that have passed since then, she's been very loving and affectionate to me about half the time and moody and withdrawn the rest of the time. But even when she's moody, she's not giving me the nasty LB'ing treatment that she had been before our joint session with our shrink. So many love account deposits have been made and I've been happy and hopeful lately. Especially after seeing the message on her computer to Sony asking them to cancel her subscription to the Everquest game immediately. She mentioned in another message to someone else that the Everquest servers will hold on to her character for a good long time, so if she decided to return to EQ after a few months she still could... but right now I'm glad that she's taken this step away from Everquest and that she's showing me that she loves me. Because it felt for so long like she didn't.

Our shrink has a theory about the way WW has been treating me, both pre- and post-A, that she feels is right on target. The theory is that because I'm the only man that she's had a serious, living together kind of relationship with (for 10 years and counting...) besides her father, in her mind I become her father in so many ways that just don't fit. And her father is an alcoholic who's built like a boxer (because he was one at one point) who physically abused her all through her childhood. If I have two drinks in a year that's a lot for me, I'm not muscular by any stretch of the imagination and I am gentle and loving with my WW, never abusive. Having her react to me like I'm an abusive alcoholic feels like an insult until I can remember that it's not something that's meant that way, not even something she means to do at all. This partly explains her posts to so many of her friends about how nasty and how much of a control freak I've been about her online A... though I'm sure that "the fog" that gets talked about so much around here is partly to blame for that too.

That's all for now. I'm sure there'll be more to come later.

BenFoldsFan