I've been in Plan B for 4 months now. I am in Plan B because I kept sabotaging my Plan A by LBing. I didn't even realize this until I started to listen to the Love Buster's tape series and do the exercises...the question that always got me was "if you are love busting, what triggers this..." Without a doubt, it was always his continued contact with the OW. So since he wouldn't stop the contact, we seperated.

I have heard all of the lies..okay the standard ones. I have heard all of the hurtful remarks that WSes lay on us BSes. And yes, he is still in his A. So, after all that has been said and done - he has his own place and the freedom he so desperately craved, the OW, why hasn't he just run out and filed for divorce? I think I'd like to know from those of you who are going or gone through a divorce after doing the Plan A Plan B bit - who actually filed for divorce?

I don't get it.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Hi I actually haven't got my divorce yet but I will tell you - my husband was the one that cheated - he was and still is the one that wanted the divorce - yet I am the one that got the lawyer and decided to file jointly he doesn't even have a lawyer - Now the reason why I did this was because I got to the point that you know what I cannot live like this wondering does he want a divorce, is he going to file etc.. So I pushed the issue got the answer and started the proceedings - I am upset that it has come to this but I also have a life to lead - when I will actually get to the point of wanting to lead it and get over him I don't know - but I am ending all of this indecision in my life and standing up for me - somewhat - I still am very nice to him - but one day I assume that I am going to loose it and all my anger is going to come flying out.. So I guess my advice to you - is do what you think is right - don't wait for him - he doesn't want to look like the bad guy..... Good Luck...

It's definatly a mixed message when the WS repeats consistantly that they no longer love you, want nothing more than to get rid of the marriage, yadda yadda yadday...and then NEVER get off their lazy butts and actually file. (I was one of these, BTW, and only finally DID file when I was pushed).

I can think of several reasons for dragging the feet. For one, often the wayward spouse confused. They spout absolute surity about this or that, but in reality they say it to try to convince themselves as much as you. They also don't want responsibility for the downfall of the marriage. They KNOW the A was damaging, but often they say it's a symptom, not the cause...so therefore it was the BS's fault in the first place. If they can tire or badger the BS in to doing the filing it feeds in to their "victim" status...after all *boo hoo* the BS "gave up" on them (I was EXTREMELY guilty of that one). Another reason is pure laziness. Often the WS is too lazy to put forth effort in to fixing the marriage they have, so they figure it will just be easier (and more fun) to start a new relationship. But the actual work of divorcing...far to strenuous to waste their time on.

I'm sure there are TONS of reasons....those are just a few that come to mind.

I ditto both maw's and hope's responses.

I also think it is because truthfully, they are incapable of making a decision on their own that involves anything beyond their own immediate wants and needs.

At least in my case, my H is undergoing a huge MLC. Guilt may be playing a big factor, and he's very angry. Because of that, it seems all he wants to do is sit in his own cave and salve his wounds--make himself feel good with the lack of responsibility, having a fun time gal pal who doesn't respresent anything other than a good time who "understands" him. As hope said, it's a LOT of work to do a divorce right in a manner that isn't very antagonistic. Also think that perhaps this is a method of control for MLC'ers too.

I see that in my H, he downloaded a DIY divorce kit over the internet and thinks that will take care of everything!! Rest assured, I have an attorney in my pocket though so that I can now be informed of what to do legally.

I truly think they are irrational.

Hi All,

Thank you so much for your responses! I was glad to hear from both perspectives. Sometimes I just need to hear some confirmation on why such irrational behavior continues. As hard as being the BS is, I would not want to be a WS. It seems that there is such internal termoil that has no way of being satisfied for the long term.

Maw - I have had your thoughts for 2 weeks now. Being the "proactive" sort, this Plan B is killing me in terms of "just wait". But it was weird cuz I had a dream last night where my H came up to me and served me D papers. I really felt bad in my dreams - not relieved as I thought I would. I'm interpreting this to mean that I'm not quite ready to throw in the towel.

Hope - I think that if I pushed, my H would also get off of his conflict avoiding butt and file. But just as I pray that the A would end, I also pray that he will make this decision on his own.

Blue - Yup they are completely irrational. But does that me I am also since I'm trying to be in a relationship with him? UGH. My girlfriend always says - don't try and reason with the unreasonable. ...or as my H used to say
" Don't try to teach a pig to sing - it's a waste of your time, and it annoys the pig. " He is such a pig. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Local,

No you are not irrational. You're in pain and are confused, that's it.

I don't think necessarily you need to "do nothing." Perhaps making plans for YOURSELF here would be in order, doing things to make your life forge ahead. All you need to do here is not interact with S unless absolutely necessary.

All maybe you're trying to imply right now is that you are keeping an open mind to this marriage...

Just my 2 cents worth.

Blue -

You're right...I am trying to keep an open mind to this marriage. I'm trying to slow down the process of building the walls around too high.

I guess I've started to get antsy about moving things along because I find that I want to do things that either require him (refinance the house) or doesn't (try and find a new "friend").
I don't need his money to refinance, but he's still on title, so I would need his signature. Heavy sigh.

Lo

Local, you're much in the same boat as I am.

I had to refi the house recently (last month) with H, was that hard.

Had many many other things in way too. Next hurdle is negotations with attorney/court and state over D's auto accident. (He forgot to pay auto insurance premium as part of our separation agreement!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> )

So, each encounter is difficult still, I will admit. But, I'm beginning to feel a bit more confident with each new encounter too. And I think A picked up again... H pulled a stunt on me yesterday about his cell phone. It worried for for the day, and then I decided I could act on it how I deemed to. He didn't need to yank my chains through things that are not necessarily under my control all of the time, and demands aren't the way to negotiate <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> I'm trying to do all of this without letting him off of the hook legally or financially and still not get upset and hurt by his anger and irrational behavior.

Who's handling all of the refinancing work? You or H? If you are, I'd keep communications to him and updates to fact. I did it through email so that I didn't need to hear his anger. Of course, he'd always scream through email about terms, but I didn't need to see or hear him. If he is, is he keeping you abreast about terms, etc. as partner would?

Blue thanks for the reply - are you only seperated and no one has filed for D? Do you have some agreement with your WS or yourself on how long you plan to Plan B?

I handle all of the finances for the house, insurance, etc. We informally settled on a dollar amount during the seperation which is adequate for now to handle bills.

I'm in such turmoil right now. My son spent the weekend with H. When he got home, I noticed his eyes were red - I knew he had been swimming. So I asked him where, and he said at the OW's house. ARRRRRRGH. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> What is the man thinking?!! Are they trying to see if the "kids" get along...she has two...broke up her marriage for H. What an ego trip this must be for him. I am not going to say a word to him. My son knows I do not like this woman - I said she was evil once a while ago. So of course, he got all stressed out when he told me where he went swimming. The poor fella - so, I said she is one of the reasons why Daddy and I do not live together anymore. We went into a little about what it means to be married and sharing and selfishness. My son is so curious about what is going on and what is going to happen. If my H thinks this OW is so great that he wants to test his "blended" family, why doesn't he have the balls to divorce his old one first?

I guess I've gone full circle. I want to ask him if he thinks his OW is going to protect our S. But I know I'm letting emotions rule, so it would be best to keep my mouth shut and let them both stew. I figure if he's shared this with the OW, she's probably telling him to dump me right now. Wow, I just had a glimpse of what it must be like to be her - even though he's probably with her right now, I wouldn't want to be in her shoes.

What a night.
Lo

Local,

I agree with all of the reasons that have been given plus I have another one (in my opinion) for you.

If your WS filed for divorce, he would look like the "bad guy" because he had an affair and filed for divorce.

But if you filed, that would take some of the heat off of him, and he could say to his family and to you that you did not want this marriage either.

It's a guilt trip, my WH is living it. He's a major "conflict avoider"!!

Conflict avoiders!!! boy, if I ever get out of this and start looking for a new relationship, I have to find a way to screen out conflict avoiders!!

Going Crazy - I read your bio, and something struck me - your H almost moved back because he thought that it wouldn't work out. You know how many times I've heard that from my H? The believability that our M could work out is just not in him, and that, more than anything else will be the death of our M. I'm sad. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> If your WS filed for divorce, he would look like the "bad guy" because he had an affair and filed for divorce. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That is another reason why I'm not going to do it...(at least for now ) because he chose to blow off his marriage. Let the record show this. Please let me know if this is just looney tunes.

That's all folks! (I wish)
Lo

Local,

Yes, we are just separated, no D filed. I just plan to continue this "Plan B" (MB lingo, mine is "going dark"). I have no time frame for this right now... just keep getting darker and darker to the guy to keep the detachment process going. It may sound contradictory, but that is the only way I can continue this situation on my own. No contact unless a matter of life, death, kids, legal or financial. And if legal or financial, I'll decide if I need to tell him anything.

Yes, I handle almost everything for the house and the family. I pay for all insurance (life, home, auto, health, dental) out of my salary--all of his too, except auto. I handle most expenses related to this home except the trash and sewer bill. He's paying off some joint debt and student loans for D. We both make pretty good money, not riches but we should be doing OK. ("should" is the operative word... we hadn't communicated well about finances together for a few years.)

I am going to take the stance here of just standing back, getting a retainer to an attorney, let him file first. Let's see what he does with a DIY divorce kit he's got. I don't have to acquiesce to anything immediately, and I can review my own options and propose things myself. I'm hoping at worst, that if he does file for D, that I can get an attorney here to push for mediation because things escalated to the point in my view where it will be nothing more than "my way or the highway" and that's not good. I don't wish to feel forced into anything. I also look at it this way... I don't need to have his respect right now for anything. I need to continue to live and how I manage this situation is up to me, I don't need to let him punch my buttons any longer.

I hear you about the OW. This one is a real skank. I've learned a few things about her that make my hair curl--she's bi, promiscuous, is very likely into pornography (these I learned through H's confession), and had possibly an abusive family background. Now, I understand that abuse can hurt someone severely, but I also don't need to accept that type of influence in my life, either. Sounds like she came from a severely broken family, possibly really dysfunctional. So, I think this may be why H hasn't bucked my requests for no OW contact thus far, although he's whined about it before.

If H has dreams of a blended family at this point, I think he's hallucinating. It won't happen well... I know my girls well enough to know that they will contact him, will maintain contact, but I severely doubt that they will care to join into a family 24X7 like that. First, they a lot older now, and they are all headed out of the nest. Secondly, they're all pretty settled here and while it's difficult for them, this is HOME to them. I think the most H can hope for is... by any miracle that A turns in to a M (ha ha that it will be a good one <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ) is that the kids will drift in and out of the situation. Additionally, in this state, they are of the age to decide where to live. Two are legal adults and two are in HS heavily involved in a number of activities such as marching band and sports, and I don't think they'd feel comfortable being uprooted to a new school district and a new home with strangers.

I know, I know, I'm venting and getting on a soap box here. But, I seriously have my doubts about the long-term viability of that A turning into anything serious. Now, he may have designs of moving into HER house eventually... but even there, hers is more expensive (ritzier neighborhood), higher expenses, she has small kids and a teenager herself, and I don't know if her common law husband would be willing to give up that home and move out yet, either. He sounds as if he's unwilling to give up custody of their small kids. And, I understand he has other kids scattered around too... so, there's another indication of repeated negative relationship patterns.

Why my H hasn't filed for D yet is beyond me. I am not going to second guess that any longer. I won't even discuss it with him any longer until he brings the topic up. If I get a surprise serving, I do not need to confront him, I can discuss it with any attorney.... and I think in this state, I have the right to ask for mediation if necessary to deal with custody and finances...

the saga will continue, but H will need to take the lead here. I am not giving up, but I am simply going to live here too and realized that H needs to think a few things through too. Ball's in his court, and I can't make a play until he does right now.

What a life!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Local - hello I was just finally checking back to see what kind of advice you had gotten - and it is sad to see so many of stuck in this place - Like I said before or I think I said it - you have to decide for yourself - You have to decide how long you wish to continue living this way.. It is so hard for the kids - my youngest who is nine thinks that she has to be very diplomatic and tell me everything then if I get upset she tries to change the story to make me happy. Your husband is wrong throwing another woman in front of your son now. I have asked my husband to please not bring anyone into my childrens lives until he is sure that it is totally serious. See technically he doesn't have another woman right now - I thought he had an affair with some unknown person that I only knew by a phone number - but then come to find out many months later the woman next door - it was her unumber and they had been talking for a year and hooking up - by he swears nothing happened.. Anyways like I said you have decide what is right for you - set a time you can live with - Good luck..

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by local:
<strong>
Going Crazy - I read your bio, and something struck me - your H almost moved back because he thought that it wouldn't work out. You know how many times I've heard that from my H? The believability that our M could work out is just not in him, and that, more than anything else will be the death of our M. I'm sad. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There's also a little history to that. Both of our parents marriages ended in divorce due to affairs on both of our fathers part. WH looks at this experience and bases everything on this. However, in both cases, it was both of our mothers who did the initial filing. I don't know about WH's father, but talking with mine, it is a huge regret, and he always has the "What IF's". I think that it is just too easy to give up. The WS does not realize the consequences until it is too late.

It has been hard, and I have had alot of support here and from "real" friends, and my faith in God. If you choose to "stand" for your marriage, I encourage you to check out this website:
http://www.rejoiceministries.org
Sign up for the Charlene Cares daily email, it has helped me alot.

Why doesn't the WS get a divorce and leave instead of cheating? Because cheating is giving both the WS and the OP exactly what they're looking for: huge amounts of ego-stroking.

When Selfishness + Arrogance meet Opportunity, that's when the cheating starts.

WS: I deserve a little fun and happiness. I'm not hurting anybody by doing this (Selfishness.)

WS: I'm waaaaaaayyy to smart to ever get caught. Only stupid saps get caught (Arrogance.)

OP: What's that? You think I'm so wonderful and special you'd rather be with me than with the person you married? Wow, I must really be terrific! (Opportunity)

And they're off and running.

If the WS' spouse starts to suspect or gets a little upset, no matter. That's actually the best part! It's GREAT to think your husband or wife is jealous of someone else who likes you! That's the biggest ego-booster in the world! Give me more of that!

And they'll hang on to that -- having both a jealous frantic spouse at home and a fun adoring friend on the side -- for just as long as they possibly can, because there's nothing better than to be in the middle of two desirable people who are essentially fighting over you.

That's what they really want. That's why they'll never get off that fence unless you force them. All they're really doing is getting off on someone else's pain (their spouse's.) That's why they keep right on going even after being found out, usually even stronger than before.

If they really wanted to leave, they would. But most of them never do.

PsychoB_***h

Hi - I'm the BS, I did plans A and B, then I was the one to file. My WW had been saying it was over and she wanted a divorce, but now she seems less anxious. Here is why I think the perspective changes:
</font>

• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Divorce has permanent financial and family consequences. The BS has spent time coming to grips with this, while WS may have become used to the state of limbo.</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Being married/separated obviously has no impact on the WS love life. The BS may now be ready to "move on", but not while still married.</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The WS doesn't want to be publicly responsible, and may be revising history to support that. It's easier if the BS files.
  </font></li>

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think it may be different, if the WS actually wanted to marry the OP. Then WS would probably file for divorce and keep pushing it.
There is another thread similar to this one on the D/D forum.

- Tom

tmmx: I ditto you all the way.

My S gave me such conflicting messages all the way along about this that I think that even that was a method of not going after a D himself.

He originally put ball in my court. Literally told me I should take the "appropriate actions." Well, I thought "appropriate actions" were to attempt to ride out this storm! Don't think he expected that. Then he seemed angrier about that, too. Odd. Very odd what they'll do.

The really unfortunate part of all of this though is the effects it has on the BS and the family in general. Sigh...

What made you finally decide to file?

Hi All -

Sorry it has taken me so long to get back. I guess most people take the weekend off, but that's when I have more time for this. Now that I'm a single mom, I try to devote time with my son during the waking hours. And then I'm pretty out by time chores get done.

Anyway, thanks for all of the replies!! REALLY good insight. I'm very sad about my H deciding to introduce our Son into his "second" life. In fact it has made me crazy. But, I haven't said/written a word about it. What really gets me worried is that he's using our son as a pawn in this game, and it only stresses out our son...big time.

I'm kinda proud of myself cuz I haven't made any contact about this - especially when I want to say many choice things...but one thing I've learned from many of you here, is that they won't hear, so why waste my breath. I'm going to chat with Steve about this.

Blue - I'm sorta where you are in that I don't have financial needs, and it isn't currently hurting me to just hang out. When I start to get really antsy is when I feel like I want to move on to be in a relationship with another person!!
However, I refuse to even entertain the idea while I'm in this state. Just doesn't seem fair and the bizzare thing is I know I'd feel guilty.

What worries me right now is that I do not want to have a custody battle, but I know my H is unhappy with the current visitaiton schedule. So, it really sucks that he decided to introduce our Son to the OW and her kids. UGH...it makes me so mad...cuz it really stressed him out. Deep breath.

going crazy - thanks for the web site - I'll go check it out. I need all the help I can get!

I guess why I originally posted this was because I tried Plan A for 7 months and he wouldn't stop the contact. I think he gave it the best shot he could, but wasn't willing to go the whole 9 yards. So I say it's either your family or her. He chooses her and their job...yes, typically they work together. He has two "loves" (job and OW) - he says he can't believe that he can be happy with me you'd think he'd wanna be done with it. And on top of that he so enjoys his freedom?!

psycho_b - am I enabling the fence sitting by not filing? You see, I thought I was enabling the fence sitting by doing Plan A...once I said get out, I figured the fence was no longer their since I didn't care whether he stayed or went as long as the OW went.

What a life...somedays taken only a minute at a time...
Lo

Does this position we're in stink or what? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

H threatened me with the DIY kit again, I made no real comment other than to say I'd see my attorney and take the actions I though were appropriate. He told me to either seek (get this...)

- A formal legal separation agreement
- An uncontested divorce agreement
- or deal with things as HE does them

ARghghgh. My attorney is telling me time is on my side, if he proceeds with the DIY papers, it's like putting a bullseye on his back to be shot at by the attorney.

Anyone tell me... does H's reasoning sound sensible here? He's asking for either a LEGAL separation agreement or an uncontested divorce. How odd. In this state, it makes no sense according to atty to go after a formal sep. agreement. It's basically same process as divorce, all financial matters divded up, but living in limbo still like we are.

Sigh... I'm keeping my mouth shut to H and just biding time, see if he cools down, and just going to put attorney on retainer.

H is such an angry person. It really saddens me, too. He's wanting shared custody of our two minor teenagers, which makes NO sense. He's living in another school district and in a small one bed apt.