Hi all!

I am more confused than ever now. Last week I had my first session with Jennifer and her assessment of my situation(see earlier posts under this heading) was basically that she felt I was in Plan A too long. Since there is obviously continued contact with OW bymy WH (they still work together every day and I have snooped at cell phone bills to find calls still taking place outside work hours, at least back in May; as of June 14, WH locked his cell acct. with a password), she suggested I immediately begin preparing my Plan B letter. I ended the session thinking that is what I should do; however, feeling that I'm not quite sure I am ready to go to that step. I've read several other posts where BS are unsure they can proceed. I did state to her that I am not so sure I have done a good solid Plan A for more than a day or two, because I tend to snoop and then confront, or just interpret something WH does in a way that is accusing to him--big LBs! Then we'll fight for a while and I'll decide to ignore him and work on me for a while. Then he'll come around a bit, and the cycle continues. Rollercoaster!

Suppose I take the position of doing a good, solid Plan A, meeting his ENs, even the SF one, which is probably the top EN (maybe that means he's not getting it elsewhere), for a short period, say 30 days. I would have to work very hard at not snooping and checking up, and remember there are no emotional ties at this time. However, we are being drawn together right now, because all three of our childrens' birthdays are upon us, within a 30 day period. We just spent two evenings last week together because of our oldest daughter's BD. Things went pretty well--each of us being civil and I even felt he was opening up to me a little. However, I try to take these things with a grain of salt and not read more into it.

Here's the part I don't get. I agreed to being with my WH last week on a night after we had all been to dinner as a family. He initiated this. His approach presented to me was that we should go ahead with the divorce so that we would have closure on this whole mess and then I should allow him to have this need met by me every night and that way I would learn to trust him again.

How do you like that?! I should just give up all security, accountability and responsibility from him, and by meeting his need, he'll earn my trust back! I just don't see it! And basically I told him that and he said then we'll just move forward as planned with the divorce and simply be parents to the children.

Is he just flip-flopping back and forth. He left for a five-day business trip on Sunday, and he asked us to take him to the airport, even though the flight was early and required me pulling the kids from bed early to pick him up at his house and get the airport. He has called a couple times since he got there, just to say hi to me or the kids. The part that is killing me is that I am 99% sure that OW is there as well, as this is a big national meeting. I just keep wondering if he has been doing all this to throw me totally off so I think he's being good while out of town.

Forgive me for being so long; there is just a lot to think about. The Plan B idea is probably my best bet; I am just not so sure I am emotionally ready for that. But then again I'm gonna have to be if divorce is as close as it is anyway!

Any suggestions and or support that others think will work is greatly appreciated. In the meantime, I'm trying to stay busy, and pray that God knows best.

Dmand

I may not understand his logic, but I can for sure see what he's getting at....

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Here's the part I don't get. I agreed to being with my WH last week on a night after we had all been to dinner as a family. He initiated this. His approach presented to me was that we should go ahead with the divorce so that we would have closure on this whole mess and then I should allow him to have this need met by me every night and that way I would learn to trust him again. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Someone wants his cake the easy way. Someone thinks that a D will be easier and less costly than recovery...they're soooo silly when they're in the fog, aren't they?

Hon, if you think your plan A needs to be reved up before plan B...then by all means, take the extra month. But this time, do it with the goal of building yourself into a stronger and better person...not to "entice" him back.

Sure, eliminate LB's...they don't do you any good anyway and are rather demeaning. If snooping is making you lose it and feel crummy about yourself..quit snooping....but spend most of your time learning to be the best you possible...someone you'd want for a mate and friend.

Plan B when you feel like your love for him has diminished to the point that you are better off not being around him...but continue in your efforts to still be a strong capable woman.
T

Twyla:

Thanks for your support. I do have one question about what you said about Plan A. You stated to use Plan A to focus on myself and work on becoming a better person, not to "entice" him back. I guess I thought Plan A was to try to meet the WS's ENs, not at all costs of course, but a good portion of the time, and also to work on oneself as to what we contributed to the "bad" relationship which enabled the affair.

I must admit that I waffle from day to day, first feeling I will do everything possible to make him see that he is losing the best thing that ever happened to him, then to feeling as though I could care less what he needs anymore. I have been here, ready to work on this marriage since D-day on 6/9/01, and all I get is further indications of continued contact, more distant responses to work-related questions, and most aggravating of all, responses like he is just doing some of these things to tick me off (i.e. when I found some cell phone calls on his bill, 30 of them to be exact in a 12 hour period during his trip out of town to Vegas, at first he denied making the calls, then a month later states that he just made the calls to tick me off!) It's like he thinks this is just a big game; or he is just acting like a juvenile; or, most likely, he is lieing through his teeth and something is in fact still going on.

And now he is on the business trip and I know OW is there. I so wish I could have secretly gone there myself or had some PI watching things. But I am trying to keep busy with the kids and not let my imagination run wild. We were gone all day today and he called several times (per caller ID) but now when the call would really matter, he is nowhere to return my message I left him at 9:30 p.m.

I know I need to just put on a happy face and go on about my life and do what matters to me--so for now I need to finish a load of laundry and get to bed.

Thanks for listening and sharing any thoughts.

Dmand

Hon, if he says he's playing games..then he probably is...that cell phone bit was a bit too much.

The thing is...he knows exactly what role you are going to play too...either get all upset and throw an LB party, or ignore and continue to try to meet some of his needs. Either way, he continues to control the game and there is no way you can win if the rules change for his convinience. This is probably what Jennifer saw and why she advised Plan B.

There are some threads here and on recovery about "doing a 180" that may be helpful to you...while it is not plan B..it does allow for some space and protection...you are still nice, you are still gracious and strong..you simply withdraw from being drawn into the games.

Think that might help?
T

Starting Over?!

WH returned from 6-day vacation with our 3 kids and all of his family yesterday. We spoke on phone while he was driving home--rehashing what our problems were and how the affair started. Of course, these conversations always lead to both of us being defensive about our actions and arguments ensue.

He and kids arrived home about 8:45 p.m. and I had ordered pizza as they had not stopped for dinner. We ate, I put kids to bed, then he had a "deal" for me. Couldn't wait for this!

Basically it went like this: He will drop everything (meaning the divorce, I guess, and maybe the contact with OW?) right now if I agree to his terms of me "giving myself completely to him." Stated my main focus should be pleasing him and that if he asks me to do something, I should just do it because he asked. (The examples he gave were changing my hairstyle, buying a new outfit). He says he will not ask me to do anything that will hurt me physically or mentally. He just doesn't want to feel that everything he wants is up for discussion and disagreement by me.

In return, he will do everything he can to make sure I am happy. That he will pamper me, hire a maid, whatever it takes to make me happy. I stated that by me not being allowed to say no will make me feel controlled and will make me very unhappy. He stated if there is something I disagree with I should just do it and then voice my concern, not in a confrontational way, but in a constuctive way so that he can make adjustments in what he does.

Is this a rational restart for our marriage--it sort of sounds like each of us trying to meet each others' needs, with him having the upper hand of course. He is from a very traditional family, and believes the H should be the head of the house; I don't necessarily disagree with that. I just find it hard to believe that he is going to make the priority changes necessary to meet my needs. That would require adjusting his work schedule and the amount of time he spends with his family.

Is this positive? It appears to be. Should I agree to these terms? Should I insist on a no-contact letter? Or is this just too demanding on his part to even consider? I think I have always indicated I am willing to work on the M when his R with OW is over and I know that by his actions. He still insists we do not need counseling and will not even consider it.

Please share you thoughts, suggestions, etc.

I think you ought to take it to Jennifer.

He thinks he is giving you the world, but the conditions may kill you. Re-read on the site about the giver and the taker. I think you are being set up to have a major Giver/Taker war inside yourself. If you do you part and he fails to do his, it will tear you apart.

It is good that he is making offers like this, but Delay may be the best tactic. With him coming to you like this, he may offer more if you wait. I suppose he could get tired and just leave, but it doesn't sound like he wants that.

I suggest telling him you need time to think about it and leave it alone until you can talk to Jennifer.

Ss

Hello dmand2trust -- I am in the same boat. I agree with stillseeking on taking this to Jennifer. In my experience (can't believe I'm even having it), they make these types of offers but then change their minds. If it seems too good to be true/inconsistent with the most recent wacky behaviors, it usually is -- they throw out this stuff in order to keep you hanging on.

I don't have any sage wisdom on this. Whenever my WH senses that I'm about to give up, he makes all kinds of promises and makes things appear to be better/out of the fog. I am taking a wait and see approach per Jennifer (for not too much longer though -- just waiting to be able to verify whether A is still going on). Actions speak louder than words. I would do two things a) talk to Jennifer about this and b) tell him that you are thinking about it/buy yourself some time. If he insists that he needs an answer now then I think you know that not much has changed -- he's simply looking out for himself and not you.

So sorry you are experiencing this.

Still Seeking:

Thanks for you reply. I agree that waiting may be the best option. He is presenting this as an option for me to take right now as the divorce papers are probably in my mailbox ready for my signature as we speak. He acts as if he will stop that if I agree to his terms. Of course, I respond with "But what about the trust? What are your plans to rebuild that? And don't you think if I cannot tell you no on anything or disagree, that will hurt me emotionally and mentally?" He says there is no argument; it's either a yes I can agree to the terms or no I can't.

I might mention after this discussion, I proceeded to meet his SF need and he spent the night, leaving this morning for his house and to go to work. Three hours later he called me to say he was just then headed to work. You see, these things are questionable to me because in the past, after a 5-day vacation from work, he would have been all behind and had to be there first thing in the morning. Today he used the excuse that he had laid down for a while, done a couple loads of laundry, and been catching up on email (probably on IM with OW!, but I have no way of knowing) So many times I wish I could be a little fly on the wall! Anyway, he asked if I had thought about is proposal and I said yes, and meeting each others' needs sounds great; however, me not having a sayso and him thinking there will be no disagreements is not realistic. He again, said there's no arguing; it's a yes or no answer. I stated then no, I don't think I can live in a relationship like that.

As my sister says, it's all about him and his needs being met. In her words,I may as well put a rope around my neck and be led around. It's as if I am to be seen and not heard. Or am I making this too negative. He did state he would do what it takes to make me happy--the question is as you said--WILL HE!

Thanks again for your input--I haven't called for an appt. with Jennifer yet; guess I better go do that.

Stay tuned,

Dmand

Unsureheart:

I am so sorry you are going through this as well--it is indeed the most painfull experience I have ever incurred. (Even childbirth--I had 3 easy ones!) Like you said, I cannot believe he is true in anything he says because there has been so much deceit and lying. He tells me he is just tired of hearing 10 excuses why I cannot do something for him; says he is tired of having to beg for things. To better inform you, the things he is referring to are physical changes in myself such as changing my hair or dressing up for a regular evening at home or dinner out with the kids, or SF acts that he would like that I am uncomfortable with. These are things he began requesting in the last three years of our marriage, which were really never an issue before. During the time, I have been a stay-at-home mom with three children, now ages 7,6,and 3. So I just didn't place too much value on looking like a "date" for that environment. And we honestly didn't make a regular time to go out, for which I would have been inspired to get "beautiful". Not that I look like a hag every day either--I am very peticular about my hair and do use a bit of makeup. I guess bottom line is I realy don't put too much emphasis on people's outward appearance and as long as I am comfortable with mine and my heart is true, I don't expect others, especially my husband, to look down at me!

I'm just not sure this is something I can just say yes to. I feel that he needs to exhibit the no-contact requirement with regard to OW before I commit to giving 100% to our relationship.

How has your experience with Jennifer been? I've only had the one session and as I stated at the beginning of this thread, she suggested Plan B. Obviously, I haven't done that yet. I have to really be ready for that one.

Thanks again,

Dmand