Feeling very blue lately about many things. I am VERY back and forth about my marriage. I get mixed messages from people I talk to about whether or not this marriage should be saved. H asked me to write here and get some advice from you all, since I’m really all over the place with my feelings.

First question H would like answered:

Is the way I’m acting normal behavior for a WS?

We had spent the past week or two apart (I lose track because I feel like I’m floating around half the time) with not much contact at all, but H was being very patient and sweet by going home during the day while I’m not home and leaving flowers, cards, fixing things, etc. All of which made me smile and gave me good feelings, as long as I wasn’t feeling pressured.

I am having some female problems and wasn’t feeling good all last week/weekend. H called me to ask if we could get together on Sunday and he could take care of the yardwork and I could make dinner. I was reluctant at first, but agreed. When he first arrived, I just opened the door & let him in (no kiss or hug). He told me later on that he didn’t have the urge to do that, and that was something very out-of-the-ordinary for him, and he didn’t even realize it until he was doing the yardwork.

We got done our chores, had dinner & lay down for a nap afterwards. While he was lying there, I started to stare at him, wondering if this is the man I’m supposed to be with for the rest of my life? He looked so peaceful sleeping there and I began to get upset thinking of the hell I’m putting him through. He felt me staring, and woke up and asked if I wanted to talk.

He told me he sees the way I look at him now and it’s the way he used to look at his ex-GF (6 yrs) when he knew there was nothing left. He said it was hard for him to admit that, but it’s what he sees. I confirmed that I do wonder if there’s enough love left to salvage the M. I told him I have terrible guilt about our living situations and what I’m putting him through, and that he was my best friend, but I wasn’t sure if we’re good together as H&W, even though we both enjoy and want the same things in life. I said that if we got back together at this point, I’d feel as if I was doing it out of guilt because he makes me feel guilty for many things:
- That I get to live in “that big, beautiful house” while he is in a room at his friend’s house
- His room is 83 degrees at all times
- I ruined his life
- He’s 32 and will have to start all over, etc…

He said being with him out of guilt is the wrong reason, I agree. But I really question my happiness if I go back. He says we weren’t that unhappy before the A. I realize I’ll never have a fairy tale marriage, and H reiterates this to me time & again. But I feel like I at least deserve to:
- enjoy my life
- not question my love for my H (he doesn’t deserve this either!)
- want to be intimate with H
- like to be affectionate with H
- feel supported in my decisions
- feel like I’m beautiful instead of a “piece of meat”

He tells me that we can get all this back with the help of the Harleys. I feel like things will just go back to the same ‘ol/same ‘ol after he thinks everything is OK.

So the talk ended up with him saying “Well it sounds like you’re leaning towards D”. I said I was, but I couldn’t bring myself to say the words. He agreed that he has the same feelings sometimes, but he’s not ready to give up.

We had a family vaca planned for next week. He really wants to go, and told me he’d give me until Tues (yesterday) to decide. When he called me, I said my feelings hadn’t changed, and that I didn’t feel comfortable with being around his family in my state of confusion. I’d feel pressured or smothered by H about our M, or his mom would want to talk to me, and I feel like I’d just want to leave. I don’t want to put myself in that situation. H was very disappointed and an argument started. I let him go, and thought a lot last night. I talked to my friend, and she said something that made me think:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Physical attributes fade away, and so will sex when you&#8217;re old & grey&#8230;it&#8217;s communication and compatibility that matter&#8230;I always picture myself old, on a porch with 2 rocking chairs. Who do you picture in that rocking chair next to you?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I picture H because he&#8217;s my BF and we can talk and he&#8217;s there for me whenever I need him. But I also think&#8230;someday maybe I won&#8217;t be old & grey&#8230;maybe I&#8217;ll die young and I&#8217;ll have wasted many good years trying to fix a relationship that&#8217;s unfixable. Or being with someone I can&#8217;t be comfortably intimate with.

I guess the bottom line is, how do you know when it&#8217;s just DONE? It&#8217;s unfixable? I speak to girls here at work, and most of them are on their 2nd marriages. Every last one of them says that it&#8217;s better the 2nd time around because they make smarter decisions. They tell me it&#8217;s a hard decision for me to make because he&#8217;s been such a huge part of my life, but that it&#8217;s obviously over if I have no feelings of intimacy. I have an aunt that just kept getting married over and over again. Grantid, she was a wastoid with some major issues. But I don&#8217;t want to end up like her, lonely, a wanderer. No one even knows where she is half the time.

I know this is long, but I&#8217;m having so many feelings right now. I&#8217;m a mess because I can&#8217;t think straight from day to day. It&#8217;s to the point now, that it would be easier to D since he&#8217;s already out of the house, his friends despise me, he hates my friends, etc. But is it the correct choice for me? Not only me, but him too. He doesn&#8217;t deserve to go through life with a wife who loves him halfway. Please help!

Any easy answer I once heard for "when do you know it is over:" Fortunately, it always has to do with the past and not the present. If you can think of a minimum of 20% good times with your H, then it is not over. There is an excelent chance that things will get better provided both of you continue to put a minimal of effort into it.

Remember that feelings come and go throughout the M. Can you remember a time before where you did not have strong feelings for H? I bet you can.

These things take time. Give it some time to work. You should try to make it work not because of guilt but because of comitment. That is after all the real reason you are staying, isn't it?

Do not get wrapped up in your feelings now. Try to focus on other things. Go out on a date. Start as friends again and move slowly into a relationship, like the first time you met. Do not expect anything out of each other now. Go out and have fun together. Start spending time together now, not away from each other. Give each other 15 hours a week. Follow the MB guidlines for recovery. IT WORKS. There are many here that will tell you it is successful and possible to turn this all around. One day, you will open the door to your heart just a little, and the feelings will begin to come back.

My WW is going through withdrawal now. It has been roughly 3 weeks. She says she feels identical to you, and I almost thought you were my WW posting there for a second. I believe your feelings are very normal for WS and many others here will tell you the same.

Dear inafunk,

The problem with A's is that WS can destroy something that took years to find, gather and put together in just seconds. The moment they cross the line they choose to forget the love they once proffessed to their spouses, the good times, the laughter, the hopes of a future together.

You are human, you are weak, you gave in to your weakness, so? Yes it is tragic, yes it is unfair, yes you messed up good, and yes you ought to feel guilty, BUT, your BS seems to forgive you, he seems to love you and want you back, he wants to work on this.

You need to learn to accept forgiveness, accept that yes you screwed up, but you can move through it. You dug your own hole, then jumped into it, and now you are sad because you dug too deep and it is difficult to get out on your own.

Why don't you let your husband give you a hand?

Almost 100% of the women I work with are in 2nd marriages, if not 5ths hehehehe, they are NOT that happy, believe me, they are not. Some of them remarried after their spouses or themselves had A's, none of them stayed with the OP, but found someone else. They didn't work on their issues, all of them were very reluctant to divorce, and when they did, it was because the living arrangements and all the waiting had become too much of a hassle.

These women hate me.

They hate me because I love my husband, because even when it was obvious he was treating me bad I stayed, because now I am still married, I still love him, and he loves me even more than he ever imagined to love anybody.

I am not saying that there are no times when you have to give up. I am just saying, it doesn't seem so long since your d-day to me, I have been in recovery for years!!!, I nearly gave up, but I decided I had to work this out, or I'd end up as bitter, and frustrated as those women. Having to wonder everytime my new husband is a jerk if I was better off with my ex, or if I should re-marry again for the honeymoon period.

I am not saying either that this is your case. I think you need to let go off the pain, for somebody to love you, you have to love yourself first, if the guilt and pain are in your way, it means you may be underminding yourself because of it.

Why don't you just give your husband a fighting chance? Why you keep pushing him away? How can anybody recover that way?

((((((((((Hugs))))))))

Mrs. Funk:

"He told me he sees the way I look at him now and it’s the way he used to look at his ex-GF (6 yrs) when he knew there was nothing left."

Where's that 2x4 I keep handy? Mr. Funk needs a knot jerked upside his haid for that one! You guys are still only just starting to recover. I think these feelings are normal. But him telling you how he feels in this manner isn't too bright, in my opinion. You can always choose to look at any situation optimistically or pessimistically. My W is a pessimist. She thinks she's "being honest" when she says stuff like that. But, is a 1-liter glass with 500ml of water in it half full, or half empty? If it made a positive difference in my W's outlook for me to describe it as half full, then THAT's what I'll say.

"I told him I have terrible guilt about our living situations and what I’m putting him through, and that he was my best friend, but I wasn’t sure if we’re good together as H&W, even though we both enjoy and want the same things in life. I said that if we got back together at this point, I’d feel as if I was doing it out of guilt because he makes me feel guilty for many things:"

Never mind the many things. I think these feelings are normal right now. Give it time. Don't dwell so much on the negative things. Nurture the positive things and let them overcome your negative feelings over time.

"But I feel like I at least deserve to:
- enjoy my life
- not question my love for my H (he doesn’t deserve this either!)
- want to be intimate with H
- like to be affectionate with H
- feel supported in my decisions
- feel like I’m beautiful instead of a “piece of meat”
He tells me that we can get all this back with the help of the Harleys. I feel like things will just go back to the same ‘ol/same ‘ol after he thinks everything is OK."

You won't know this until you've tried to get through it.

"So the talk ended up with him saying “Well it sounds like you’re leaning towards D”

Okay, I'm still looking for that 2x4! The twit!

"I said I was, but I couldn’t bring myself to say the words."

2x4 for YOU TOO, Mrs. Funk!!

"He agreed that he has the same feelings sometimes, but he’s not ready to give up."

He should have said this up front. But good for him for saying it, and good for you for remembering it.

"I’d feel pressured or smothered by H about our M, or his mom would want to talk to me, and I feel like I’d just want to leave. I don’t want to put myself in that situation."

I think it will be hard for him, but I think he needs to let you stay home if that's what you think you need to do.

"I talked to my friend"

be careful of well-meaning friends. Your R with her is not the same as with your H.

"But I also think…someday maybe I won’t be old & grey…maybe I’ll die young and I’ll have wasted many good years trying to fix a relationship that’s unfixable. Or being with someone I can’t be comfortably intimate with."

Again, you're still beginning the recovery process. Remember, even if you DV, you've got all this baggage to unload. Better to do it with someone you love than start over with someone else, especially if that person doesn't know anything about R problems (and since he'll likely be male, he'll probably resist addressing problems until a crisis wakes him up... ...like with your H). Fix what you have by fixing YOU. Stop worrying about whether you're right for each other at this point.

"I speak to girls here at work, and most of them are on their 2nd marriages. Every last one of them says that it’s better the 2nd time around because they make smarter decisions."

They don't sound particularly smart to me, sorry.

"I have an aunt that just kept getting married over and over again. Grantid, she was a wastoid with some major issues. But I don’t want to end up like her, lonely, a wanderer. No one even knows where she is half the time."

Yeah. This sounds like a lifestyle you want to avoid.

"it would be easier to D since he’s already out of the house,"

I doubt this.

"his friends despise me,"

So what? They're twits.

"he hates my friends,"

So what? They're twits, too.

"But is it the correct choice for me? Not only me, but him too. He doesn’t deserve to go through life with a wife who loves him halfway. Please help!"

I think, personally, that you should stick this out. You're full of emotions because so much has happened and it's all so recent. Remember, again, that no matter what you do, you both have a lot of problems to solve before you can have a truly healty, intimate R, and you have shared the experiences, so you might as well work on them together rather than with someone else that doesn't know your history.

all my best,

It is way too soon for the two of you to be in recovery. Recovery means recovering the love feelings of your marriage.

Your best bet is to try to follow the Harley plan. If both of you can commit to it, it is your best chance. You must give the recovery process time.

Dear Ina,

After reading your post, I have to say that there is a very good chance at reconciliation in your marriage. However, it is really hard to do it alone. You are both getting advice from people who are not in your situation.

As an attorney, I can assure you that a divorce will cost each of you approximately $5000 to $10,000. This will mean that you will pay a total of $10,000 to $20,000. Alternatively, counseling with Jennifer or Steve Harley will cost $165 per hour. I can almost guarantee that after 10 sessions, you will see a marked improvement for only $1650.. THIS IS A SAVINGS OF $8350, on the conservative side!! So taking the chance that they can help you could actually save you a heck of a lot of money, and it probably will have the effect of giving you a happier marriage than you ever dreamed possible.

It really sounds like neither you nor your husband really wants a divorce, you just don't know exactly how to improve your marriage. Steve or Jennifer can really help you do this. Click on the "Counsel" link at the top of this page, make an appointment, and you will see changes that you will not believe.

Ditto to all the above.

Your current feelings are based on fear. You both fear you'll always feel like this, and that there just might not be anything more for the two of you. It's a false reading. You absolutly, without a doubt, can have a MUCH better marriage. I don't think right now you should determine if that will be enough...determine if it's enough once it's WAAAY better than it is now.

Why are you two not in counseling? Don't you want things to be better? You realize, yes, that it will require you to DO something about it??? You can wait around forever and the answers will NOT fall in your lap. If you want to change how you feel...you have to do the work. If you don't know what to do...then FIND SOMEONE WHO DOES! It's WELL worth the investment.

Thank you everyone for your replies...I'm sure H appreciates it too.

Still trying to hold it together. Today was a bad day at work...cried on and off most of the day.

Hi there. It's been a while since we've chatted.

I don't know if you've seen my recent posts or not & how my relationship with my H is going??

Well, things have gotten so much better for me...and here are some things that have helped me...take it for what it's worth <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> As you know, I'm still in recovery & have a long ways to go....but I'm hopeful & finally really want things to work....I think that's a big first step!

(1) Don't worry about what others think. This is between you and your H. Alot of people won't understand. I myself, have lost some friends over my A. But when it comes down to it, your M is your #1 priority & all other relationships should come 2nd & can be looked at later to see if they can be repaired.

(2) You have to let go of the guilt. My H has forgiven me, but it wasn't until I forgave myself that I was able to start the recovery process. Until then, all efforts seemed hopeless. It really helped me to write a letter to myself...explaining what I had done, how I felt about it & asking for forgiveness & for my guilt to be set free. I then burned the letter & however korny it sounds, I felt 100X better after it...and it cleared the way for me to move forward...one step at a time.

(3) Let go of the OM completely if you haven't done so already. I always knew in the back of my mind that my OM was "waiting in the wings" for me. This knowledge also kept me from moving forward, so I included verbage in my letter to myself that I wanted the part of my heart that was holding onto OM to also be free. I wrote a letter to OM as well telling him not to wait...that my M was going to be successful & that this really was goodbye. I'm not saying this was easy...and I still think about OM and have feelings for him & I'm mourning the loss, but I felt more available for my H as soon as I sent the email to him...as soon as I knew I had closed the door, things seemed more hopefull.

(4) Take things slow. It's great advise to focus on being friends & not worry about sex for now. Our counselor suggested that we do little, thoughtful things for each other & start re-building our relationship by going out on dates, etc. At first I didn't feel that I wanted to do anything for my H...but once I planned a couple of things, I really got into it & wanted to do things for him again. And now I keep thinking of more and more ways that I can show my love for him. The behaviors were forced at first, but now they are enjoyable & becoming 2nd nature like they used to be. And I find myself excited about our dates <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> We haven't conquered the intimacy/sex issue at this point....We were instructed by our counselor to be more affectionate first...holding hands, cuddling while watching TV, giving each other facial massages & shoulder massages, taking showers together & touching....all under the undertanding that sex is not the expected outcome. When my H first got into the shower with me, it was very ackward...but things are starting to get less ackward & I think we're making progress. It's all about baby steps & we have no demands/expectations of each other, so it's non-threatening.

(5) I bought several books from marriagebuilders.com & we're reading them together. There are lots of worksheets, excercices, etc that get us communicating about stuff that matters...and opens up topics that we would not normally think of to discuss. I feel that I'm really getting to know my H on a whole different level & I feel my love growing for him.

(6) Marriage Counseling!! I wouldn't be where I was if it weren't for marriage counseling. I kept WAITING for something to happen within myself that would make my feelings change....it wasn't until I started DOING the things that our counselor suggested that recovery really began.

These are just some things that I've realized have helped me. I hope you find something in here that helps you.

Take care of yourself!! And hang in there. I don't think you should give up. The very fact that you've hung in there & haven't filed for divorce says a lot....I think you do love your H and I think there is hope for you too.....

<small>[ July 25, 2002, 02:39 PM: Message edited by: lostinlove92111 ]</small>