We have been having huge arguments at home over some of the work e-mail he’s sent to his single female co-workers. I happened to find this article in an old business magazine and keyed it up last night.

(These are not his e-mails, but they are the same sort of thing.)

In all cases, the married male bosses’ wives had no idea these e-mails existed.

Hope it’s ok to post this here. I would really, really like to know what you all think. So
take the quiz and see how these strike you.

*****
Here are a group of e-mails sent between several different Married Male Bosses (MMB) and their subordinates, all Single Female Employees (SFE.)

Read each e-mail and decide how you would describe the exchange:
1) Sexual harassment
2) Harmless joking
3) Inviting and flirtatious
4) A pair of cheating lovers
5) Normal business communication
6) _______________________________ (add your own opinion)

There are no right or wrong answers. It is all hypothetical and meant to start
discussion. So, what do you think?

*****
Sent By: Married Male Boss (MMB)
Subject: Reports
SFE, Fred called me about some reports but I wasn't able to get back to him. Can you call
him for me? His number is 123-4567. I swear, some day, I will be working in the
department again. MMB
P.S. While in NY, do I need to get you Jewelry, chocolate...what?

Response From: Single Female Employee (SFE)
Subject: Reports
Thanks MMB. You are awesome!

Is this:
1) Sexual harassment
2) Harmless joking
3) Inviting and flirtatious
4) A pair of cheating lovers
5) Normal business communication
6) _______________________________ (add your own opinion)

*****
Sent By: Married Male Boss (MMB)
Subject: Fun, fun, fun, fun
SFE, welcome back. I hope you had a great holiday and birthday (you old woman, you).

Response From: Single Female Employee (SFE)
Subject: Fun, fun, fun, fun
Low blow on the 'old woman' thing. Just wait until YOUR birthday. Oh, the ideas I have!

Is this:
1) Sexual harassment
2) Harmless joking
3) Inviting and flirtatious
4) A pair of cheating lovers
5) Normal business communication
6) _______________________________ (add your own opinion)

*****
(following a workplace birthday party held for SFE:)

Sent By: Married Male Boss (MMB)
Subject: Thank you
I see, loving, caring......I wasn't there what the heck happened....did it turn into some kind
of LOVE IN...............

Response From: Single Female Employee (SFE)
Subject: Re: Thank you
Actually, it was a LOVE FEST! I have to increase my scores somehow now that you're
leaving me.
SFE

Response From: Married Male Boss (MMB)
Subject: Re: Thank you
Geee, the kindler, gentler, SUBMISSIVE SFE...... I never thought I see the day........

Is this:
1) Sexual harassment
2) Harmless joking
3) Inviting and flirtatious
4) A pair of cheating lovers
5) Normal business communication
6) _______________________________ (add your own opinion)

*****
(following announcement of MMB’s promotion)

Sent By: Single Female Employee (SFE)
Subject: Announcement
Congratulations!! Way to go!
Maybe we will cross paths while visiting at (the out-of-town office.)

Response From: Married Male Boss (MMB)
Subject: Re: Announcement
SFE, that would be good. How are things? MMB

Response From: Single Female Employee (SFE)
Subject: Re: Announcement
Just fine. I am now working in the XYZ office and I'm in the process of building a house
closer to work. Let me know next time you are in town!

Response From: Married Male Boss (MMB)
Subject: Re: Announcement
Will do. MMB

Is this:
1) Sexual harassment
2) Harmless joking
3) Inviting and flirtatious
4) A pair of cheating lovers
5) Normal business communication
6) _______________________________ (add your own opinion)

*****
Sent By: Single Female Employee
Subject: Suggestion
Bite me.

Response From: Married Male Boss (MMB)
Subject: Re: Suggestion
Hard??

Is this:
1) Sexual harassment
2) Harmless joking
3) Inviting and flirtatious
4) A pair of cheating lovers
5) Normal business communication
6) _______________________________ (add your own opinion)

*****
(following MMB’s forwarding of a glowing report about SFE to the higher-ups)

Sent By: Single Female Employee (SFE)
Subject: Y2K
Thanks for the love.

Response From: Married Male Boss (MMB)
Subject: Y2K
You know it..............

Is this:
1) Sexual harassment
2) Harmless joking
3) Inviting and flirtatious
4) A pair of cheating lovers
5) Normal business communication
6) _______________________________ (add your own opinion)

*****
(shortly after SFE transferred out of MMB’s department)

Sent By: Single Female Employee (SFE)
Subject: Scheduling
Was I unclear? (about giving orders to her subordinates)
Miss me yet?

Response From: Married Male Boss (MMB)
Subject: Scheduling
Flames shot off of my computer singing my eyebrows.............so, yes, it was
UN-Clear...smile.
But the real question is "do you miss me"?
MMB
P.S. Go get em..

Is this:
1) Sexual harassment
2) Harmless joking
3) Inviting and flirtatious
4) A pair of cheating lovers
5) Normal business communication
6) _______________________________ (add your own opinion)

*****
Sent By: Single Female Employee (SFE)
Subject: Re: Help me if you can, I am feelin' down ...
No problem.
I asked (our secretary) to make you a copy and place it on your desk.
Thanks! SFE

Response From: Married Male Boss (MMB)
Subject: Re: Help me if you can, I am feelin' down ...
Aren't you wonderful?? MMB

Is this:
1) Sexual harassment
2) Harmless joking
3) Inviting and flirtatious
4) A pair of cheating lovers
5) Normal business communication
6) _______________________________ (add your own opinion)

*****
Sent By: Single Female Employee (SFE)
Subject: Equiprment
I am available if you need me. Thanks..... Well maybe I should know when the call is
scheduled....

Response From: Married Male Boss (MMB)
Subject: Equiprment
Aren't you always? Thanks for the help. MMB

Is this:
1) Sexual harassment
2) Harmless joking
3) Inviting and flirtatious
4) A pair of cheating lovers
5) Normal business communication
6) _______________________________ (add your own opinion)

I didn't read them all but the bottom line is IF a spouse has a problem with them....THEN they are a problem! A good way to protect a marriage is cc: your spouse on all communication between people of the opposite sex.

With our marriage history I would say I would find them all inviting and flirtatious.

Psycho:

I answered all inviting and flirtatious, but some pushing to cheaters.

Flaca

I am having a very hard time today.

I've fought hard to get through and get things to change -- really change, not just the superficial I-won't-do-it-again-now-let's-move-on kind of change.

I've tried to get my questions answered. All I've ever gotten is a wall of denial.

There was a time when he needed me, but I think that ended long ago. That job, that Company, gives him absolutely everything he needs now. Go down the Emotional Needs list and it's all there:

Affection -- plenty, especially from the women. Gifts, cards, hugs, personal support, you name it -- there are virtually no rules at this place. They like the touchy-feely Teambuilding culture and live it to the hilt.

Attention -- See above. It's endless for a successful high-powered manager. It's both personal and professional and comes from both male and female.

Admiration -- also endless, both personal and professional, both male and female. There are awards and recognition and congratulations for just about everything.

Recreational companionship -- there are lunches and get-togethers happening on a daily basis. Teambuilding involves anything from hiking at beautiful tourist destinations to horseback riding to confidence-building camps in the woods. Outings, off-site lunches, and fancy awards dinners happen regularly. The Company pays for everything and spouses are *never* invited to any of this.

Sexual fulfillment -- well, the place is full of cute young women happy to give a friendly outgoing boss all the female attention he could ever want. Strippers and porn are readily available every time he goes on the road, where the wife won't know what he's up to.

I cannot compete with all of this. I don't even know how to try anymore. It's like trying to hold back a tidal wave by myself.

I turned out to be only 1/3 of his life. He had the women at work, the strippers on the road, and the unquestioning wife at home, and that's the way he wanted it. Things only got bad when I started to object.

I thought I could handle this and hold on until he seemed to finally understand -- the things he and his friends have done are so blatant that I couldn't fathom anyone trying to deny them forever -- but he still does, vehemently and angrily, and apparently always will.

I don't have the first clue what to do now. He is stronger than I am, he can shout a lot louder, and he has far less to lose. I can't outlast him when he is determined never ever to admit to anything wrong or to ever fully answer my questions.

He doesn't need me. He's got the Company and he's got his friends. I need him, and I want him, but I am only one person and I can't compete against that tidal wave -- especially when it's slamming me against that wall of denial every day.

It hurts. It just hurts too much.

Yeah, I could have had a very nice comfortable stress-free life. All I had to do was look the other way and stay out of my husband's personal life.

I would have had everything I ever wanted -- everything except my self-respect.

As a manager I find this corresponence VERY inappropriate and unprofessional!! There are certain boundaries in one's professional life...to protect the manager/company from a harassment lawsuit and to protect the employee from the stress of inappropriate actions by their superiors. I have men working for me and would never show them this type of disrespect. I value their professioanl skills too much. I can't imagine creating an enviroment where they felt their careers were based on how well they "got along with me, personally"! I certainly don't offer to buy gifts on my out of town trips and ask if they miss me when I'm away from them!! If you ask me this is an abuse of power.

Your WH will not change unless he can see the need to do so. You can't fix him! You can't make things better in your marriage by yourself. IMHO your WH has no respect for boundaries, personal or professional. My suggestion to you is to start looking after yourself. Do what you need to do to feel better about yourself and reduce some of the stress in your life. Are the two of your in MC?? If he won't go then you go to IC, it'll help, I promise. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

This marriage is NOT all about him and what he needs. What about what you need? Do you really want and need him? Why do you say he has far less to loose?

He will loose you, a faithful loving wife. IF he can't see the value in that then why do you want/need him?

I see you loosing an unfaithful, uncaring H. Why do you want/need that?

Have you read "Love must be tough" by James Dobson. I don't think you are giving yourself enough credit. Enough credit for what you deserve. Enough credit of what you have to offer. Enough credit to walk away if he is unwilling to do the things that make a marriage good.

You have choices. You have control over some of what you allow in your life. Examine all your options. Sometimes the ones that seem unfathomable are the ones that bring you freedom and peace. Have you tried Plan B? How long have you been in Plan A? I was in Plan A for most of my marriage before I knew what Plan A was. based on this comment of yours I suspect you've been in it too long too: Things only got bad when I started to object.

I don't think I will be posting here anymore. I've learned a lot, but most people make at least some kind of progress after well over a year and I've made none at all.

He will never admit it was wrong. He will never answer my questions. Just the idea of doing either one makes him nail-spitting angry.

He is either deliberately being cruel by continuing to keep me in the dark, or he is so determined to hide something that he would rather let our marriage die than tell me what it is.

There is no way I can fight either of those.

I mentioned that I was a romance novelist. This is my website: http://www.okerry.net

Thanks to everyone for trying to help. Good luck to all of you.

Please keep posting.

It was not a year for me. Read my signature line. me and my H divorce in 95 and remarried and 97 and continued contact was just last year!!!! But I'm telling you it is different now because I was willing to walk away. It didn't guarantee me my marriage but it guaranteed me my sanity!

Hi PB,

First, please stay and keep posting!

hope4future gave me excellent advice recently (it's been over a year with us too). I was asking "how long" questions and she said that it varies greatly, and if things were progressing then keep doing what I'm doing but if things weren't progressing then do something different.

This forum is a great place for ideas on how to do something different so I hope you stay--no matter how your M turns out, YOU'LL turn out great!!

p_b,
I agree, don't leave! Keep working on you--God will take care of your H. When we give up the struggle to change our mates, WE end up changing and suddenly what they do or don't do doesn't even affect us.

YOU can recover from this because you can become a better you... You know what is what. He knows what is what. God will change only you in this process because that is all *you* have control over at this point... Sometimes the changes in us brings out the change in our mates! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Regarding these scenarios in business communication between a boss and subordinate--I find them to be inappropriate and most unprofessional--definitely ABNORMAL.

Maybe peers would have joking conversations like this, esp. the one about kidding each other about old age. We celebrate birthdays and have those black streamers with over the hill printed on them and such, but NO TALK OF LOVE. Maybe we (PEERS) would even ask if someone wanted a souvenir from some exotic place but coming from a boss (to me) is NEVER "normal business communication"--EVER!!!

Maybe these e-mails do not necessarily indicate that affairs or even flirting is going on, but this is not in any way "normal business conversation" because they are generally too personal in nature.

Hey pb, I am so sorry you are feeling like you are at the end of your rope. Over on another site I go to we were discussing people with narcissistic personalities, you might want to do some research to see if your H is one.

p_b:

I've only followed a few of your threads since I came on board in Feb. I would tend to agree with your assessment, that your H isn't making any effort to understand your concerns.

Have you considered plan Bing him?

psycho-b,

Can you elaborate on this Teambuilding concept used by this company? Is this a formal concept/policy used by companies, something that is actually put into place as a way of doing business?

I need to know where I can get more info on this.

replaced