Hi,

Just me thinkin' again. I am reading about sooo many new ones here, see and feel their pain. I am sorry to see so many here but if this means there are even more out there with even less support then maybe this isn't a bad place to be. U know what I mean!

Anyway, I was thinking about our choices. After D/d many of us feel our choices are limited. We spend large amounts of our time on trying to 'fix' the Ws. Trying find out about the OP and stop them in their tracks. Sometimes learning about how we may have errered or how to better ourselves.

We forge ahead often feel like we are in the dark. We see our lives and our choices dwindling down. But are they? Are our choices really dwindling down?

IMHO, No. It just appears that way. Shortly after d/d, while still in shock we wander aimlessly trying to 'understand' the babble. We don't know it is babble, we may have never experienced this situation before and for some of us we would swear our spouse is on drugs. That is how strong the effect of the A is on a person.

After a while...... we learn that we can not fix the WS but we can learn to better ourselves. We can learn to move forward. We do have choices.

Here are a few of my choices that have helped me.

1. I choose not to have the OP in my life.
2. I choose not to listen to WS babble.
3. I choose to move forward without the WS.
This means that unless the WS turns back
to a rightful spouse, there is an end.
4. I choose not to be treated with disrespect.
5. I choose to keep plan B in my back pocket.

What are your choices? How have they helped you?

L.

I like this

Here are mine:

1) I choose to focus on my future for me and my kids,
if WS, wants to be part of that future, then, we will see where the M is at when the FOG lifts

2) I choose to focus on improving me

3) I choose to keep my selfrespect

4) I choose to protect my children from H's fog

I like this, too!

Some of mine:

1) I chose to take control of my own life

2) I chose to stop trying to control OP and WS

3) I chose to take care of myself first- physically, emotionally and spiritually

4) I chose to surround myself only with supportive people

5) I chose to avoid bashing my WS, and avoided anyone who wanted to do so on my behalf

6) I chose to listen to all advice, but decide for myself what was best at the time

Basically, I think I chose to grow up, once and for all.

Orchid

U R still the best. I've missed ya <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

DOTY

I chose many of the same things listed above, but most recently I chose to leave as an act of self-preservation. It's been less than a week, but already I feel a sense of control of my own life.
My W has called me constantly, about 15-20 times for trivial things (see my post to "hope4future" for details). I keep the conversations short, but pleasant.

She chose to get involved with OM and she chose to file for D. I chose to do what I had to for me, and it feels good so far. When I have my daughter, she's the focus of my attention. When I don't, I'm accountable to no one. I chose to learn as much as I could about me, affairs and relationships. My W chose to continue to wallow in self pity and misery. In the end I'll be better off than she will.

sad dad

Hi Orchid!

"1. I choose not to have the OP in my life"

How did you do that?

Replaced

You have written some good choices. I think this can help others focus on some positive steps.

DOTY, good to hear from you. Please catch me up on how you've been. I know you have been through a lot.

Replaced, well in my case everytime the WS and OP fought, I got 2 phone calls and a few rude visits. I didn't notice the patter at first but then when I did. What an eye opener. So I told the WS and OP, they really needed to spend some quality LB time together!!! LOL! Well not in those words but real close!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I told the WS that I chose not to have the OW in my life. That meant no calls, e-mails, attitudes about the OW. If I wanted to ask or talk about the OW, it would be when I chose and what I chose. Otherwise any futurecontact with the OW constituted immediate expulsion and loss of roomming rights in our home.

I basically found what I felt brought the OW in my home (e-mails, phone calls, attitude, etc.) and threw it out. Besides.... the OW has OP cooties!!! LOL! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

L.

Orchid, then what do you do with the WS when he still tells the kids that he loves the OW, as we are going through a divorce? And the WS is telling the kids daily that I am wasting money on my lawyer? I talked with some of the kids last night and told them if dad would of cooperated with the lawyers, things would of run a lot cheaper and smoother. WH procrastinates, and this procrastination has caused lawyer expenses.

I am trying to move forward, but with the daily trashing of me by WH-STBX in my home in front of the kids, this is getting old, old, old! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Glad to hear that you and hubby are doing recovery. You are a stronger person now, you are a person with a goal, you are a person who is not going to let the OP interfere, Good for you. I wished that I had done what you did when the OW in my life called me and coerced and manipulated me with suicide if my husband and I were to tell her husband about this 2nd affair she had with my husband. Learned a lot from this soon to be X-marriage. Learned a lot about manipulators, learned a lot about deceit and lies. The future will only get better, can't get much worse.

Would like to talk to you orchid sometime. I was thinker, but now onecry2much. Hopefully, will change my name sometime in the future when I am settled and moving on.

c2m,

In your case, your children are (mostly) grown. I don't think you can stop him from telling the "kids" whatever he is going to tell them.

I think Orchid's point is to stop him from acting/saying his stupidness in front of you. You don't need the aggravation. If he starts, I would ask him to leave, he's abused his right to "visit" in your home. If he refuses to leave, then YOU leave! Leave the room, the house, if necessary if he continues.

As far as telling the kids you are wasting $, I really don't think it's his place to inform the "children" of how YOU are wasting money!! They shouldn't be burdened with that kind of info. Instruct your children to just let him talk, if they care to listen, otherwise, just WALK AWAY!!! Usually, a person won't continue to talk, if they have no audience. Take away his audience, and he'll get the message that no one cares!

I see that YOU also "burden" them with your "side" of the story. I think you both need to step back, realize these are your children - not contemporaries, and they cannot help you (other than with a listening ear, and even then, they probably feel powerless), and you might even be hurting them with the details of your anguish.

I reiterate what has been stated before - WHY is he still able to come into your home???? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Please be strong enough to put a STOP to this behavior. It's true you cannot stop much of his angry and irrational behavior, but you CAN stop him from being in YOUR safe haven. Get help from your attorney if necessary. Good luck to you.

Hey T (c2m),

Good to hear from you and yes, I will call later. Right now I am helping PI and it is a mess. Will share more later.

You and the WS both remember my hard times last year. I am stronger thanks in part to your understanding ear. Even that grouchy, stubborn Ws of yours helped me. Now my H (xws) is helping others. He loaned PI his truck so she could get around since her H thought he'd be cool by throwing her out on the street with no keys, no vehicles, no money, etc. Well her friends and family came through. She is still very much in shock and slowly struggling to get on her feet.

Anyway, so for now I need to give back to you the support you and even that crabby WS of yours gave to me. Tough love T, lots of tough love. You know I care a lot about both of you, even that grouchy PMSing Ws of yours. LOL!!!

Hey S, if you are reading this you know what I mean. You should know better but for some reason you head seems to be stuck in a bad place. I hope you figure that out soon and work on your recovery. Personal or M one doesn't matter at this point, though the personal one probably should come first.

T, you do have older children and while it is not good to dump things on them ask them how they think they can support you. You may be surprised at their ideas or they may be surprised at your needs. That will help you keep your communication skills up to par.

As far as that crabby WS of yours, well let him go take his anger away from you. T, both you and the WS have choices to make. He may have made his for now, so now it is your turn.

Why is he stalling when he seemed to be pushing for the D? Hm..... and the reason is?!?!?!? Well he may not even know and you need to be aware of that. He may be angry and confused. You may not be the one that can help him out of that anger. Maybe the mirror or wall would be more helpful. So just distance yourself from dealing with him. If he wants to be angry or wants the OW, then stay out of his way and send written instructions that he stay out of yours. Then do so. If his clothes don't look as clean as you know they should be or he is not taking care of himself as he should, you gotta let that go. The WS can go pretty low in their life. How long they choose to do that varies.

S, I hope with my heart that you don't go farther down in the dirt than you already have. U know I don't mean that because I don't like you, just the opposite...... I can't stand to see a person who has good potential throw it away.

Well, I have to go and sign some papers tonight. I have experience serving an RO. LOL!!! MB BS for Hire?!??! Just joking!

take care,
L.

Lupolady - I have no choice in WS coming to the home. My lawyer has asked his lawyer to tell WS that he is to call when he wants to come over. I usually don't get the message, and he appears at the doorstep. My lawyer has asked his lawyer to tell WS to make appearances minimum. WS excuse is that the business is run out of this home. Well, he took most of the files, he has a few parts left, I could have the kids take them out of the one room and deposit them on his doorstep. It is an excuse for him to come over. This is becoming more clear, the control issue. SNL is losing control and this is getting to him.

There is so much hatred from him. Our oldest daughter came home for a few days. Dad is buying her off by paying for her apartment, paid for her truck payment, and of course dad is paying for the room and board of her horse. She asked me for money, I told her I have none. Last night we got into an argument, the same crap, SNL has loaded her head with how I am wasting money on my lawyer. I relayed to her how SNL didn't want to admit to his sexual affair, which cost paperwork to fly back and forth from lawyer to lawyer, and only when my lawyer was going to supeona the OW did SNL come forward with the truth. Daughter says to me, she doesn't care about the affair. I said I do, I don't care about the OW, I care about HIV, STD. Daughter (soon to be 24yrs) says, she doesn't care. Says you are 52, Aids takes its course and you will die in 20 years. That is the lifespan of a woman anyway. Like so what mom, you have AIDS, dad has AIDS. This hurt, but deep inside I know she favors her father, and is much like her father. SNL has filled her mind, with how I spend money with the lawyer, how I paid off my credit card that SNL used, I spent only 80 dollars and he used the rest. So I told her yes, I paid off my credit card, cause I don't want bad credit, and I want him off my credit card. I explained, why do you think dad can't have credit of his own. He has to have a credit card with his mother being the master name on the credit card. Is this what you want in your life? It is not how I planned to have my life, bad credit. Her credit is ruined by her fathers habit of not paying credit bills. But she doesn't have to worry about money, she asks dad and he gives to her.

It was a terrible night last night, I had the letters for her to see from the lawyer, all in order by dates. I said if you would like to see the interaction we had to have to have him admit to the affair, here it is. She always brings up she doesn't care about the affair. I said it had to be stated by his father, for the 10% a BS automatically gets, plus the judge sees the betrayal, plus there are a few other things. She therefore said she doesn't want to look at the paperwork. Also, I said, now we are doing discovery. Of course SNL has warped her mind with that too. I told her SNL states that he is not going to do discovery like the court ordered, he will copy mine and give it to his lawyer. She doesn't want to see in her mind that her father is doing what he wants, and this is causing him to dig his ditch deeper and deeper. Now she is stating that dad doesn't care about giving me anything. Of course that is because I am not following his plan, I am following the lawyers plan. She told me if only I would cooperate with dad, I could of got anything I wanted. Replied, if I had cooperated with your dad, I would be in a dumpster. Trying to express to her, do you hear what dad is saying, he is not responsbile for her 2 siblings that are going to college? The child support that I get for one child I have had to buy groceries with for everyone here. Plus buy animal food, and that the kids have heard over and over, that dad is not responsible for the 2 in college. And dad comes here and eats whenever he wants, and I am trying to support us with this little amount of money. Of course, she goes out to eat, goes to clubs, buys gourmet food, and wine and etc. I don't have the priveledge of buying whatever I want. Things are tight here.

Times like this I want to leave, and leave the kids to see, what their dad is like. But I will not leave, I will fight this to the end. I am just being a loving mother, one that is tired of being told repeadedly that I am wasting money. I asked the daughter what about dad wasting $7000 on the OW in 6 months. She doesn't want to hear about the affair. So end of story.

Anyways, she is going back to her apartment which is about 2 hours away. Thank goodness. She talked to me very disrespectfully last night, and told me to kiss her [censored], and [censored] this house, and etc. Language she heard from her father. I told her to leave the house, said she wouldn't, I told her to have respect in this house. Anyways, I called the police, she got in my face and I asked the police what I could do. Anyways, she calls her dad, and the story gets messy.

I just let her be. I am tired of her coming home and using my laundry soap, my washer and dryer, using the house as her own, and not doing anything around the house to help clean up. I asked her to wash my van, she took time to do her truck, said no. This is selfishness to the extreme. I am sick of being used, I am no longer going to look for things at garage sales for her. I did buy one thing, said she loves it, but that is the last. Let her buy herstuff with her dads money. I will just be here for her, but no more giving her anything. This is called tough love. Hurts, but in reality, this is what she needs. When she moved out, the agreement between SNL and I was that she can't afford her apartment and truck payment, oh well. Well, he didn't stay with the plan, and of course she thinks the most of her father. I don't have money to give, I don't have the resources to get a job, injury to my back by SNL, and right arm injury. She could of gotten a job a McDonalds, or whatever. But no she wanted to use her time to find herself, and go to clubs, and etc. and use dads money, cause she knows she will get it from dad.

I have a choice, and I have made my choice to be here, but I am trying to be fair to all the kids. Planning a future without SNL is going to be tough, but I will do it. Already, it is getting better without him here. And packing all his stuff is getting him out of here too. I could of just thrown all the stuff on his porch, but no I am packing stuff and labeling it. Easier for him to have how many days I give him when the divorce if final to get his stuff out of here. I am moving on, and I am recovering from this nightmare. I know I am a good person, I know that I am moving forward, little baby steps, but moving forward. I know now that SNL is still angry, but his life will be whatever he makes of it, and mine will be what I make of it. Hopefully, one day we will beable to talk, but not now. I would talk, if he would leave the lawyers bill out of the subject, leave the manipulation and coercing out of the subject, leave the kids out, but he doesn't, therefore, I am not willing to talk with him. When he grows up, I will talk, but for now it is better to keep my distance.

Yes, BS's you all have a choice, and remember that YOU ARE A GOOD PERSON!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Orchid,
I am new here and the BS. I am not new to infidelity. I only hope that because of MB, this is the last time. I am seeing this in a whole new light and I see alot of wisdom here. Hopefully I will learn from all of you and become a better person/wife because of it.

To answer your question: I think your choices change as the course of the Affair and Recovery change. Right now I feel we are in recovery (again) and here are the choices I face. (BTW, I carry these with me for support)

1. Stop analysing A to death. It will never make sense.

2. Start being trustworthy and in turn you will start trusting others (FWH). I became a person I didn't like during discovery (I became my own PI plus hired one when I hit a wall). I never want to be that decieving again. It isn't my nature. As a result I start to see everyone as sneaky and the enemy.

3. I can't control anyone but me. If FWH wants to cheat he will...no matter how good of a wife I am.

4. Move on with your life; this A has taken up too much of our lives. (10 months now)

5. The more I feel badly, the more he is reminded of his failures. Why would he want to spend the rest of his life with someone that reminds him of the worst mistakes he has made. Are any of us perfect. I am not.

6. I love the tag line at the end of someone's post here (sorry can't remember who) If you harbor bitterness, Happiness will dock somewhere else. How true.

7. The WS is depressed too. He is hurting too. Don't feel too badly if he can't support you and comfort you at the beginning. That will come. (and it does)

8. The two people we were before the A are gone. Don't try to find them. They don't exists.

9. He has been given the ultimatum; he can leave anytime he isn't happy and if he see her behind my back, I am gone.

10. Snooping only hurts me...be prepared if you discover something that might destroy recovery.

11. Concentrate on the good times in your marriage..the little things he does like pull the covers up over me when we are sleeping and the kisses on the forehead when he thinks I am sleeping.

Just a few things I keep close to me and read them on bad days..which are becoming less and less.

madabouthim - good for you. Yes, there is a lot to learn, and I am glad you are in recovery. Orchid is a good example. I wasn't that good of an example. But I have a WH who shows no remorse or guilt for his actions. And tells my kids repeadedly that I am wasting money on my lawyer. I have been given advice from someone I know today. Therefore, I will tell the kids, think what you want, but God knows the truth, and your father is not dealing with this correctly. Please excuse his anger, his threats to me, please excuse your fathers emotional state right now. Things will get better, but it is going to take time. This is all I can say for now. I am having a hard time, and I hate for my WH to be here. My two boys and I went to the fair grounds today, our 2nd daughter is showing a horse. While we were gone, he was at the house, watching TV, on my computer, etc. I am so sick of this, made me start to cry, he doesn't realize the hurt he is causing me, the pain, I don't feel safe in my own home, I don't feel like I have privacy. He was in my bedroom, where the computer was, watched TV, and now I see he touched papers. This has got to stop, he said it doesn't have to be this way, but until he lets me put closure to this, I have to have it this way. Total disconnect is needed, and SNL won't let me have it. So SNL tells me tonight that I need to move out of thehouse and he will live here with the kids. I am in a no win battle here. So I will stick to my plan of telling the kids, the truth will be known to God, and therefore, we will not discuss it anymore. That is it. Let SNL do what he wants, but I will stick close to the house, cause he is taking things without letting me know and this hurts.

MAH,

Thanks for your words of wisdom. Yes our views do change from d/d to recovery. We learn a lot from this rough and traveled road of life. One of the things I learned what that I have choices and as C2m said, we are not as bad as we have been made to feel.

Same can be for the WS but they have to turn around first. 1st sign of repentance is turning around. The next step is continuing in that direction and stay that way.

C2m,
Oh my dear..... I still read and see your pain. If your daughter is taking his side over ours, understand that as a young person she can not grasp it yet. Yelling at mom may be her way to letting out her frustation that she can not handle it at all.

Yes, SNL maybe taking advantage of her vulnerbility and using it to his advantage. But it will not last for long. Unless he has a huge stash of cash ........ no not even then. See MOney does NOT buy love but it sure tries.

So for now, go about and do what you need to do. I am suggesting you change the locks. Then he can go watch TV at his new place. Remember that was his choice. He must be happier..... don't you remember how happy my WS was?!?!?!?

take care,
L.