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Joined: Feb 2001
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As my earlier thread mentioned, my H seems angry with distance. Doesn't like the wall because he views it as my way of trying to make things difficult for him. Well, tonight, he drops off my D after work. She doesn't want him to leave. Okay, I don't engage in any conversation. She pulls him into the house to show him her barbies. She then asks him to help her with her pyjamas. I ask if he can include a light bath before changing. Since she has had an earache the past few nights, I wasn't washing her hair but just kind of rinsing her off. He blows up and tells me I'm mentally challenged (of course all in front of D). Well, this of course, sets me off. I ask him to leave. D gets upset and says Papa can't leave. H appears smug. I ask Papa to apologize in front of D.

Goes downstairs and calls me a wench in front of D. I blow up again. I cannot stand the name calling especially in front of D. I call his parents and leave a message for them to call me. I then start dialing the OW. Yes, I know it's an LB but he's gone too far.

He pulls out the jack and attempts to break it.
Then rushes upstairs to break our wedding portrait.

Then, in front of D, taunts me with "I've replaced you in every way. Believe me, D will hate you and love her.

I look at him and tell him it's sad to hear him talk like that.

I'm yelling, he's not...taunts again and says, who's been screaming for 1/2 hour?? Of course, it's me and he's pushed my buttons!!!

BUT, I didn't call him names!!! I didn't belittle our love!!! I demanded respect and he continued to taunt me in front of D.

I then called my friend in tears. She rushed over. H left before she arrived. D didn't want me to cry anymore.

Is it time for a restraining order? Can I ask his parents for help in keeping him away from me or is it really me that is out of control??? Does he have any right to verbally abuse me in front of my daughter? And how must/should one react?

And of course, one of greatest comebacks tonight, "I'm doing fine. I'm dealing with it. It's you that can't."

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I'm sorry for your bad night.

No, he doesn't have the right to verbally abuse you. He is in the wrong for that. He taunts you so you blow up, that gives him justification for his actions. It gives him reasons for having the OW. It also makes it appear to your D that your the one in the wrong.

Advice.... I have very little I'm sorry to say. I do suggest you remain in control of your feelings. I realize he knows what buttons to push in order to get you angry and cause you to blow up. However you control your reactions to him. Don't give him the satisfaction of pushing you to that extreme. Find ways to control your temper.

I'm here if your still on the site and want to talk more.

Good Luck

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Hm, why do the more sensitive of us always seem to have bad nights at the SAME TIME?! =p

Shesh..

Anyway, hang in there Terrified..

Do you have any friends that could stay with you for a bit to make you feel more secure or something?

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Terrified,

No one has the right to verbally abuse another. EVER! Especially in front of impressionable little one!

From your description you were being civil, and maybe even liked watching him be a father. I think your suggestion to do a light bath may have been a great idea but a trigger to him for something unresloved from the M, maybe he felt he was being controlled when all you wanted him to do was be a Dad....who knows????

Try to work on the temper, its good you would not let him disrespect you, but the shouting is what D will remember. You can keep your dignity better with a cool head, and realize that much of what he said did not need or desirve a reply.

It seems to me he is angry about the distance, so most anything will touch him off. Then with you mad also, he can feel better in knowing you feel as bad as he does. Don't play his game. There are no winners!! Its a downward spiral. The best way to make him feel bad is for you to be successful and accomplish things, such as knowing when and when not to argue, or at work, or saying you will do something then doing it.....successful at living your live without him... ( is this Plan B?)

Think of it this way, if you were your D, would you want to live with you?? At 2and a half years kids can still pic up on many things, but basicaly they only know two emotions, happy or hurt. They cant leave the situation so they will suppress the hurt and then later problems will show up in some form of mental health. Would you want to live with the hurt going on now??? I don't think so. but your D can't control it, you can. You can't control him, but you CAN control your reactions to him....

It is sad but he is using D to get to you......

Was any of this you? Well....IMHO yes.
As soon as you started playing his game, you were out of control......It happens all to often and without a person knowing it is happening. Unless you make an effort to recognize it and avoid it, the two-way blow ups will continue, with your help <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

The best you can keep up the No contact the better......let the pick up and drop off of D be done with your girlfriend in the house.

Getting a RO? maybe, he's shown he can be violent.....anytime you fear for your safety it is time for an RO.

If he thinks he is doing fine and your not, remember who was breaking wedding pictures and causing other damage.

Terrified, he is trying to be hurtful. But he can't be if you won't let him....He can treat you with disrespect, but can't take your selfrespect - you have to give that to him

I guess to boil everything down, Stay off his game board no one wins, and Kill him with kindness it will drive him crazy and show D how to be respectful and calm. I doesn't matter what D thinks of OW, she won't want to live with a ranting and raving Papa.

Stay strong, Prayers

DRS

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This post made me MAD. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

T...

Two words.

NO CONTACT.

Do whatever legally you have to to arrange third-party visits w/ daughter.

For that matter, by saying "I will replace you... etc.," maybe his visits need to be supervised as well.

See your lawyer. His behavior is totally unacceptable and don't you stand or sit for one more second of it.

NO CONTACT. Third-party exchange visits w/ daughter. Check on supervised visits due to his anger issues and inappropriate behavior toward you with daughter present. Please.

Cali

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I'm 100% with Cali, here. You've got to take whatever legal action available to take control of this situation. Anyone who will verbally abuse you in front of his own child is far too angry to be handled without professional help. And breaking things is absolutely unacceptable behavior. I know your daughter wants her papa, but you have to protect her at all costs, and seeing that kind of anger is not healthy- you know this. Please get help, and let us know how things are going. You are in my prayers.

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T,

I have to agree with everyone else's advice here.

NO CONTACT, NO ENGAGEMENT. He knew he "had" you when D asked him to help w/her PJ's and YOU asked him to give her a bath! You should be at the extreme other end of the house while he's there dealing w/D. Let him finish his visit w/her and LEAVE before you show yourself. DO NOT talk to him, or listen to him. If he has something to say, let him write you a note, and leave it on the table. Be on the phone, or have someone come over, whatever you need to do to keep from being in direct contact w/him.

We all know this hard. But look at how things escalated! You don't need this, it's not good for your D to witness, and it will NOT lead to recovery, if that's still in your long-range plans. Please, PLEASE, observe your own NO CONTACT strategy. It will give you peace, if it accomplishes nothing else.

God Bless you, dear Terri.

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I agree with the others, it is past time for no contact.

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I grew up with two brothers and one sister. Each of us learned how to push each others buttons. We would tease and poke until one of us would break. When you live with someone, it does not take long to find out what the buttons are. That taught me quite a bit of patience and thickened my skin a bit.

Can't you see what he is doing? He is purposfully pushing your buttons so that you can make a seen in front of your D. He is going to try to use this against you to get custody of the D. That should scare you to death. Use this fear next time to help you keep control. If you are the one yelling and screaming and he is remaining cool but still hurtfull, what do you think your D is seeing. Do not let him do this to you. What he is saying to you is so mean and hurtfull, but let it roll of your back.

Search your soul, why do you care what he thinks about you now and what he says to you now? He has betrayed you and your marriage. He has another women at his side. He is not comitted to you anymore. He has done the unpardonable sin in the marriage, the most cruel, heartless, and selfish thing one spouse can do to another. Considering this, what makes what he is doing now so unexpected? You should expect this cruel and insensitive behavior out of him now. This is what defines him in his life at this very second.

Own your situation you are in. Look at reality. Do not let his fog shift over to you. When you see him, expect him to be the most cruel person on the planet. If you expect it, you will not be so angry when he does what you expect. Do it for your daughter. Many a cases I have seen here where the husband provokes enough wrath in the wife that the wife does something stupid to loose custody of their children. Please, for the sake of your daughter, do not let this man do this to you.

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Chameleon, What a good post... I printed out your words of wisdom.... ! thank you--- btw- i was verb and emot. abused this am by email and yes afternoon while trying to talk to my ws. hugs, h <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

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Terrified,

How awful! I agree with everyone else who has posted...don't stoop to his level. He doesn't have anything bad to tell your daughter about you, so he tries to make you get angry...then he'll have something to make you look bad. He knows he is losing in your daughters eyes...he is the one who has gone away. Don't let him turn it around to be your fault.

NO CONTACT seems like the thing to do. He sounds like he could be physically abusive, and we don't want it to get that way at all.

Good luck.

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Go to NO CONTACT PLAN B immediately Terri.

Do not speak to him after last nites incident.

Rally all support and help that you can get -- via your in-laws, your mother, your sister, your friends. Tell all of them about what happened last nite, and that you are afraid and concerned about the abuse and possible escalation to physical abuse. I'd even tell them that he's pushed you down in the past. I would seek a restraining order.

All of this is to protect your daughter. She will not be a witness to another scene like that. So you, as her loving mother and responsible parent, are going to do what you need to do to protect her from this damage.

You have absolutely no obligation to make sure he has ANY parenting time whatsoever. He has abandoned his family -- he is abusive to you.
If he wants any visitation or time with daughter -- let him begin the legal action to seek it.

Do nothing in regard to the marriage. Do not file for divorce. If he wants one, he can go get it. Simply remove yourself from the whole situation.

Make other arrangements in terms of daughters schedule. No more help from him. Arrange with work so that you can drop her off in the mornings or pick up your mother yourself.

VERY important -- have a heart to heart with the in-laws and let them know what is going on. Let them know his plan is to replace you with OW. Tell them in detail what happened, and why you are doing Plan B. Tell them about marriage builders.

Plan B letter needs to happen soon.

If I were you, I'd take tomorrow off - and gather your resources and make plans.

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Terri,
Not only was he being awful to you, he was trying to prevent you from getting help when you were trying to call.

He's dangerous. He's mean. He's doing nothing in his life to make himself better. Calling you names, taunting you, physical altercation and breaking things in front of your daugher are ALL INEXCUSABLE!!!!! And all of them being done at once are worthy of a restraining order.

He's gone beyond mere WS behavior into psycho-city.

I think you are going to have to tell your daughter, "Daddy can't come in the house anymore." If you use time out...tell her when Daddy acts mean to you, he needs a time out.

You can't allow this kind of behavior to continue. You can't.

I'm just so sorry.

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{{{{Terri }}}}
OK, you said and did a couple things that by most standards of civil and approiate conduct would not be classified as a model -- But from where I sit, I say no big deal! You guys are way beyond a Plan A thing --
I am getting in here late & did not have the patience to read all the replies -- I don't know if it is neceassry to analyse the events, but I have an observation. To me, your first mistake (and please do not take this as a critism!) was asking him to help out with PJ's and bath and all -- I am not there, in your shoes, but honestly, (and I believe others have also suggested), please do invite him in!
Still his actions I am sure by some people could be rationalized as not that serious - I mean, he did not knock you down & kick you, right? But, please, we have spoken of this before - he is a sick person!! Who knows why or how come, at this point, who cares, but I can understand that this kind of rage could be PROGRESSIVE!
Restraining order? Yes, if possible? He may treathen more that he was provoked ?? But still, no matter what, if this pattern continues there is too much of a risk, I believe, that the next time he starts pounding on you!
It seems that you have stuffed so much & tried so hard to be nice and all, that the damn broke - I believe most people here can understand these emotions! You know now that this is sign that your resentment has reached a point where you need the Plan B ... for you!!
I am sure you have been in contact with Lexxxy, my prayers are with you - it seems to me that she can help you the most right now with the plan B letter and all - I will pray for you guys!
Please do not feel sorry for your H!! - He may not be a bad person, really; but right now he is a very sick person - I am not trying to be cute. I am serious!! He needs help!! You however, cannot take responsibility for him!!
This may sound absolutley horrible, but IMHO, I whish there were a way you could have your D detach from him -- I do not believe he is at all healthy for her!! But that may be my emotions speaking now and not fair.
His statements about OW -- Vindicitve - he is trying to hurt you, pure & simple, nothing else. You need to have serious talks with a lawyer - restraining order -- protecting your assets in D -- I know you don't want to, but I think you need to be prepared - you cannot waite for his totally mean spritited, vindictive, manipulative, self-centered style to strike on his terms!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Is he a big guy? Do I need to bring a ball bat? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

If you still think there is a chance you can love him again, you have to impliment a plan B - Filing for a D, is not automatic where you live, right? I mean if you file, there would still be time to resend, if he somehow comes around, right?

Love & HUGS!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
Bob

<small>[ July 25, 2002, 02:11 PM: Message edited by: Hurrian Hoosier ]</small>

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Terri,
I am a little more under control myslef now.
You now that I have the uptmost confidence in Lexxy on this kind of thing & I appreciate her post cause I can learn some things as well.
I got the impression you guys email, right?
I am not sure why Lexxxy recommende you not move to D - I may have over reacted on that ?
I would show caution in talking with the IL's -- I am not up todate on you relationship with them. I am concerned that the tables may have turned - They could easily sense that ther son has definately crossed a line & switch into a self preservation mode & be motivated to protect him and ultimately themselves with visataion rights and the like.
I am thinking talks with your family, clergy perhaps, but definately a lawyer would be first priorities! I agree with Lexxxy, is there anyone you can hang out with for a couple days - you did change the locks right -- if not can you hire some to do that today -- lock up & leave -

You need some quiet time, dear!!

Does he have access to joint accounts? If so, withdrawal & establish in your own name - I hate to sound like we are going to death com 3 or something here, but enough is enough!

You will survive this!!! This is not your fault!!
Peace be with you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
bhurrican@yahoo.com

<small>[ July 25, 2002, 02:29 PM: Message edited by: Hurrian Hoosier ]</small>

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It is difficult with a young one. They manipulate... your D's object was to have her two parents together in the same house- which is impossible.

I think there are some things to think about- 1)a restraining order? Don't let him come near you.
2)Or, do you have a cell phone? If D is returning and he is in the house, walk outside- tell him to call on your cell when he is ready to leave. Do not physically be near him. 3) Having him drop D off with a neutral party could be good, but difficult. What about your inlaws?

The reality in divorce is- once my sister divorced her H, she told me it made her extremely uncomfortable for him to even set foot in her foyer. In general, he does not come inside her house. Her kids were 4 and 6 when they D'd.

MB is great, plan A and plan B is great, but they don't always work. Do you really think you could recover your feelings for him- what you've described him doing sounds so destructive to your marriage and your love. At some point could it make sense to file for divorce, wish him well with his life with OW, (the woman he wishes to replace you with anyway, his choice after all), and keep him out of your life? Do you want this person in your life?

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Another vote for the no contact. T, PI just did the RO on the ws. One of the reported incidents was when the phone was removed (by force) from the wall. She was informed that this is a 'federal' offense. I was surprised but she is sure that is what she was told.

Given that piece of info, what we all need to elarn here is when to stop accepting/enabling the abuse and make a choice to remove ourselves from that environment.

Plan B, 3rd party participant via RO sounds like a direction to deeply consider. If you were to write a factual account of what has gone on in the past 6 months and show it to the women's abuse hotline in your area or even the police, you might find out that you have been tolerant for way tooo long. Keep it up and you will start to look like the one who needs her head checked out. I know why you are doing this but to all outsiders some of our actions appear tooo enabling.

T, viist your local women's abuse center. When PI gets a chance to post, she may be able to give you some suggestions. She is a strong young woman who has endured much.

Let me share an observation. When the police get involved and they see the BS wavering it can be perceived as wimping out and the police are less likely to provide assistance. Remember that you are sooo involved in this situation that you may lose sight of the fact that you are being treated with disrespect.

If you H treated anyone else like he has done to you, he would probably have been arrested. So why allow him to do it to you? Think about this and let us know how you are doing.

take care,
L.

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Hi T,

Not much to add on what others have said.
You still have a chance to recover your M, but, you have to plan B.
My H was a lot like yours after d-day, he's come a long way since then. Only after a solid plan B for 3 months he has treated me with more respect. He's not home yet, but I haven't given up.

Remember, before love there has to be respect.
Work on your self respect.

Take care of yourself and your D.


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