Hi. WH didn't call the kids again yesterday. I don't know what's going on..I can't make him call them. I woke up at 3 am and haven't been back to sleep. I was worrying about selling house, whether to start packing WH's stuff, etc. I got up, decided it was time to talk to WH about house and also I didn't feel good so I was going to ask to watch the kids. I called him and his roommate said he was gone for the day. I called cellphone. No answer. Left two messages and he called.
I got upset..telling him that the only reasons I've talked to him in three weeks is about the kids and/or money and it's extremely frustating that I never know when he is out-of-town, where to reach him for emergency, etc. I said if he doesn't want me to contact him about the kids, tell me and I'll find someone else to be the next contact (mom or friends). He said he was sorry and he'd do better letting me know. I said even though right now he didn't want the responsbility of three kids, he has them and he is still a dad, etc. I was crying and upset. I have the kids alot. I told him the majority of the time I am just fine but I'm sick and needed help today and that I hated that the only time we talk is when I need something. We ended the conversation amicably.
I am frustated that he heard how stressed out I am and tired and that I gave him a guilt trip about the kids. I didn't talk about us.
I think for my WH the marriage is over. He hasn't shown any interest regarding me. In four and a half months, we have spent no time alone. NONE. He did tell me I looked good last week.
I don't know what to do anymore. I bought Power of prayering Wife. Problem is I don't have a husband.
Not calling him hasn't shown change, he doesn't seem interested in spending time together...I don't know what else to do except forget about him.
-CS

I'm feeling better. WH came over Sunday to do housework and we talked for a long time (not about us), just catch-up talk. It ended well.
I went to a concert last night and had a really good time. I havent' been to a concert in ages. WH was pretty interested in the concert. He's probably just making small talk about a safe subject.
I believe he spent most of the weekend with OW. Here's my thoughts: I am going to stay in Plan A until I get myself where I want to be physcially-a few more months. If nothing has happened, I'll go to B and move-on. This isn't going to end without a fight-OW is going to have to realize she is involved with a man with three kids and he will need to be taking care of them more. I've noticed that when I think WH is with OW, he doesn't call the kids-so obviously, it must bum one of them out to be reminded of the kids.
What do you think?
-CS

<small>[ July 29, 2002, 10:53 AM: Message edited by: can't sleep ]</small>

CS- so why do you think that WH came over yesterday? Probably because he is feeling guilty and he understood how stressed out you are with everything. But why would he feel guilty, if he was 100% sure that the M is over, then why would he feel guilty about anything? And, how do you think OW felt about him coming over and spending time with you, shouldn't he be spending all his time with her? He is still interested, believe me, he is just unsure of what to do next, how you are going to react, how he is going to react, if you have given up. There are just too many unknowns for him. Its not fair and it leaves you feeling down, but its something you are going to have to put up with for now.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OW is going to have to realize she is involved with a man with three kids and he will need to be taking care of them more. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, and this shouldn't be looked at as a way to manipulate the A. WH is the kids dad and he needs to take responsibility for his 50% share of their upbringing. And that means taking them on his appointed visitation schedule. You are very stressed out with all you are doing, you deserve a break and the kids deserve to spend time with their dad. WH has gotten off too easy on this matter, its time to put a little pressure on him.

Keep doing what you are doing, CS, you seem to be settling down into a good Plan A and WH seems to be reacting to it a little. Remember that you are in it for the long haul so don't let one setback make you think it is all over. WH is making some effort to be with you, take advantage of that and watch those nasty LB's. Besides, the more time he spends with you, the less he has for OW and she can begin to feel the way you have. Who knows, maybe someday soon you'll become the OW!

Hi. Things are still calm. WH called the kids last night and helped with rides this morning. So, that is good.
I want this nightmere to be over. Do you think he'll ever talk about the OW or explain it? He still denies his time with her. I don't know what is going on with them. Maybe it's better that way?
I feel so restless not knowing where I am going to live, etc. I just need to decide and go from there.
Thanks,
CS

That makes 2 or 3 days in a row of WH coming around and helping out, doesn't it? Things that make you go hmmmm. Don't push it, let him come to you on his own. Don't you kinda feel like you are taking care of a lost puppy who is hiding under the porch and wont come out without a lot of TLC?

Don't ask about him and OW, let him think you are fine with it and have accepted his choices and are ready to move on. If you are feeling restless about moving, go look at some show homes or open houses. It doesn't mean you have made that commitment, but it might be fun to see some new homes (heck, the prices ought to be enough to scare you from even thinking of moving, I know they are around here!)

You should search back and look at some of your first posts. You'll be surprised at how much more stronger and confident you sound now.

Bumping you up to see how you are doing today

I'm doing OK today. No new news. OW stayed for a few minutes after we exchanged the kids last night. We chatted. He hasn't made any "extra" phone calls or suggestions to get together though. I did ask him if I didn't have health benefits at our one yr divorce date if he'd wait and file when I found benefits. He said, "Sure, no problem." Guess he is not planning on getting married soon.
Our 13th anni is next week. Dreading it. I am not going to acknowledge it to WH and I'll let him take the lead, if any.
Still in a quandry about jobs, etc. I'd do one thing if WH and I were going to work out (more risky, no benefits, less hours) and another if I need to 100% support myself.
LHS-I've been thinking alot about your moving post. I didn't answer my opinion because I would be so tempted to move in just to get that chance again but realistically knowing it's not good for the kids, I may not. If WW really doesn't want anything to do with the relationship, she would not put herself in the position to be observed 24/7. It's important to live together for the right reasons and it sounds like this isn't the time for you. Hard call though because I sure miss my H...
Cheers,
CS

Our 14th anni is this month as well as my 37th bday (3 more years and I can stop counting!) I feel exactly the same way you do, Ill let WW make an effort to do something. Anniversaries are supposed to celebrate your marriage, guess I dont have much of one to celebrate this year.

Take it slow, CS, its excruciating, I know, but little by little things will start to work out. It already seems like WH has spent more time with you these last few days than he has in the last 3 weeks or so. Dont push anything on him, let him make all the effort to come to you. The more he is with you, the less he is with OW.

As of now, I'm not really looking to move back in. WW is going to have to make a decision on her own free will to stop all contact with OM before I will even consider it. Until then, Plan A at a distance and see what develops. I like your 24/7 survellience thought, although WW's suggestions on me moving back in gave her plenty of free reign over the situation. If the topic comes up again, I'm going to mention this to her and see how she reacts, it could eb a good indication of where she is in regards to recovery.

Take care, we aint doing so bad after all, are we.

LHS-Thanks for reply. It is going so slow. Too slow.
WH didn't call kids yesterday at all. I may ask him to be consistent-either decide to call them on the days he doesn't see them or not call at all so there are no expectations. He did Monday-he didn't last night.
It appears that he NEVER calls the kids during the time he is with OW. What's with that? He did when he first left and he was with her. It feels like he is slipping away again. He never calls me during the day-he did when he first left.
I have decided that I'm going to move in with my family within the next two weeks, which will enable me to concentrate on jobs and me. I won't be worrying about the house,etc. I feel like a sitting duck here-everything just like WH left it when he comes over for the kids.
I am so grumpy that one absent phone to the kids can set me off like this.
Thanks for the vent-CS

I just talked to WH and told him my plans and asked him to decide either to call the kids or not. I think I've had it with his BS.
-CS

Vent here all you want, that's what we are here for. Hard as it is, we have to avoid showing the WS our anger so they don't use it as an excuse to prove how miserable the M is. It seems to be getting more and more difficult for me as well, seems like lately I have been really short with WW whenever she calls or I see her. I'm fed up with the BS too, seems like the only time (watch out, here come my vent!) WW ever calls me is when she needs me to do something for her. Last night I was supposed to go over and help the kids with a computer problem and ended up moving a ladder around while she finished painting a room. Afterwards she wanted to talk, but only for a minute, because she had to go bring the ladder back to a friends house and visit for a while. That crap really burns me, she never has any time just to be with me, but she sure seems to have a lot of time to visit with her friends. I'm going to have to put a stop to this 'handyman' routine real soon. If she wants the house exclusively, then she'll have to do everything her self.

You have every right to tell WH to be consistent with calling the kids. Even though he isn't living at home, that doesn't mean he cant pick up the phone and call them every night. Those kids need some consistency, they need to know that their daddy thinks about them all the time and misses them. If he cant even give them that, well, maybe he shouldn't be giving them anything at all.

Have you considered starting to box up WH's stuff and move it into the garage or telling him he needs to pick it up. Maybe its time that he sees some action on your part showing him you are moving on. After all, he doesn't seem to show any interest in coming back, so maybe you need to take the stand that he isn't. Just a suggestion, not sure if it is the right thing to do.

Is the move back to the parents going to be temporary? I'm guessing that WH and our parents don't see eye-to-eye on the A and it will definitely put a strain on your R, but you gotta take care of yourself above all else. Hopefully this will give you a little breathing room and allow you to focus on yourself and what you need to do right now.

Take care, the weekend is coming up, so make plans to have some fun.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Dear CS,
I feel like I'm jumping in the middle here- but here goes my 2 cents.
What you are going thru is so similar to my situation- I wanted to share what my IC said about the phone call thing.
He told me that a parent-child relationship is from top to bottom- that is the parent must initiate the contact. That's not to say what your H is doing is right, but he needs to realize it is UP TO HIM if he wants to maintain his relationship with his children.
I know the pain you are going thru because my formerly very involved parent /now WH is acting just like this.
Also- regarding his stuff- it is a sign of ongoing ambivalence according to my IC. He advised me not to do anything with his stuff right now. He said at a later date, I can tell him what day to pack up. He didn't think I was ready to do that yet.
I hope this gives you yet another perpective to help you try to figure things out.

PB511: Thanks for reply. Yes, it's frustrating when my WH is being such a removed parent now. Your IC is right-it does need to come from the parent. I never, ever thought my WH would put another person before his children. He's been such a great dad. WH did take some of this things when he left (clothes) and I packed some things in bags and gave them to him. The rest of the stuff is here-I think WH likes coming here and seeing everything the way it was-lucky him. I appreciate your insight and welcome additional comments.
LHS: Yes, my parents are disgusted with WH's behavior and have been encouraging reconcilation up until a month ago or so. I think WH's limited contact with be even more reduced when I move as we won't chat at the house when we exchange kids; however, for me to move on emotionally, I need to be out of this house. WH had the nerve to say to me: "I can't believe that your taking the kids out of the house." I didn't say anything but what about taking the Dad out of the house?
I think he was shocked and when I came back with boxes after work, he was even more grumpy about it. Reality check? No more family and house?
I didn't tell him about my move for a reaction but he gave me a small one. I'm scared to move-scared it's the end-but I know I can't sit here wondering anymore and not knowing whether to redecorate because we need to sell the house, etc. It's time for a change.
I feel a sense of relief about the immediate future. I'll live with my parents until March (after bar) and we'll sell the house as soon as we can get it on the market.
Everything's going to be alright-that song just popped into my head.
WH has the kids for the weekend. I have no big plans. I'm going to a cooking class. Just feel tired.-
-CS

I feel like I don't know what I am doing anymore. I made the decision to move but am scared that it is the end with WH. He and I are meeting Sunday night to talk about financial issues-"early dinner or coffee" -it's always early because OW gets off work at 6. Part of me wants to flirt and be engaging; the other part of me thinks: "Why bother? You're talking about money, he's with someone else, etc."
Feeling pretty discouraged. Feeling like the bad person (OW) won and it's over. Some days are good. This one isn't.
-CS

Thoughts?

Dear cs,

I really feel for you right now. I am having a hard time as well with feeling like I'm really shutting the door. But maybe the door isn't really there anymore?
I try to look at this in a "harsh reality" point of view- ie why do I want to work on something with someone who is treating me this way? But I still can't let it all go. I wonder is it really that I want him and THIS M to work- or am I reluctant to admit that I was part of a failed M? I just don't know. I guess what I want is a crystal ball to peer into the future....
The hardest days are when the children are with him- I feel like I'm being punished even more. It's good that you are in a cooking class...that sounds like a great distraction.
I really don't have much advice to give you- I just wanted to let you know that you had support from someone who is going thru the same kind of thing.

PB511: Thanks for reply. I do sometimes wonder why I still want to stay married and there may come a time when I say, No More. I am getting closer. However, I do love WH and I don't want to be d'ed. I accept my part of the failed marriage-I made some major blunders too.

WH and I did meet last night-talked finances and went out for dinner. It went fine-nothing resolved except how to sell house. I didn't bring up OW except when he started quizing me about my personal life, indicating that I had a boyfriend. I told him that it was none of his business as he didn't share his with me. He also noticed that I'd whitened my teeth (my very own MLC response <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ) and asked if I was still going to the gym. He said the reason we were sitting there today was because of our debts. What? Last time I heard, it was because of other reasons.
He gave no indications of interest in working on the marriage, no saddness at selling the house, nothing, no future talk. I didn't either. He knew exactly what personal property that he wanted from the house.
I mentioned using another dinner gift certificate and asked if he wanted to use it with me sometime. He said he'd like too.
I have been reading Power of Praying Wife every night. It makes me feel better-more forgiving.
Today is our 13th anniversary. I bought myself some expensive flowers. I'm doing OK. Neither spouse or I mentioned what today is..
Seeing him makes it so hard. I just wanted to hug him and say, "Come home. Knock the rocks out of your head." No, don't worry. I didn't.
Thanks for listening-
-CS

My real questions: Do you think he'll ever show any interest in working on the marriage again? What if he is too "pridefull" to say "I screwed up?"
He's still wanting to keep our finances together and that could be for sometime (1 yr). Is that guilt, ease or of course, what I want to hear, because he's not completely gone? He is willing to sell the house if that's what I want.
-CS

Dear cs,
This total "deadness" is so hard for me to deal with, too. My H is also the same way- no emotion - a kind of robot-like being that looks like my H but has no emotional attachment.
I get discouraged because I can't see any effort to try to break out of this state. Is it the effect of the OW? How long does it last? How long should we wait?
There is much talk here about "the fog" but I can't get a feel for what causes it to end and why some people never get out of it.
I still think waiting and being patient are the best tools- but it is soooo hard to do.
In your situationI think the money thing is related to the guilt that your H is feeling. At least that's what my C told me.
Stay strong.PB

I haven't heard from WH on our anniversary. I haven't called either..so that's good.
GIVE ME FEEDBACK, PLEASE!
-CS

<small>[ August 05, 2002, 04:33 PM: Message edited by: can't sleep ]</small>