Hey...like I told Spacecase...it ain't over til it's over.

Yes, you finally got it...but she's not estatic and running in to your arms. Getting it is only half the battle...the other half is "proving" you can change. My hubby finally "got it" after I'd moved out and found him in a chat room flirting with another woman. For some reason that moment was when he understood his part in things. But I was too resentful and had HAD ENOUGH at that point. Everything he did right just made me madder that he hadn't been willing to do it before. It took time to get over that resentment.

The whole "too much damage" bit is old and worn out. There isn't too much damage...she's just tired and resentful. In time that too will fade. Right now you have to focus on working on you. Continue Plan A and give it some time. Remember, she's as confused and hurt as you are...so don't take her current "truths" as how she'll feel a month or 2 months from now. A WS's feelings can change with the wind.

Mortar,

Where are you????

Just want to see if you're OK?????????

MITT

I'm here guys and gals. Still in a funk, but somehow still standing erect and getting on with the day.

My WW came over last night for dinner. I called her on her cell right before she came over (my son and I were on the way back from baseball practice) and she sounded tired and cranky. I just knew when I got there, it was not going to go well with her like that. Well, I was right.

As soon as she walked in the door, she started complaining of being tired, that she had to work tomorrow, that having dinner at 7:30pm was rediculous (we had to do that because she is the one who originally asked to do it at 7pm because she had a hair appointment...but again, somehow I get the blame for her actions).
While I was making dinner, she kept at me, pushing the buttons. I kept telling her that I just wanted to have a nice night, no talk of us or our problems. Just eat, talk about work and the kids, and maybe watch a little TV. Then she can go back to her place and be in bed by 10pm (which she was). But she just kept pushing, kept telling me things like she had been trying to get out of the marriage before because of my not being there for her, that the affair shouldnt have happened because she should have just "done it right" and filed for divorce. Again all of this is fog talk, I know. It no way represents what the entire relationship was. I tell her that we were mostly happy, and that we would cycle back into our problems because we did not seek help and did not know how to fix them. She said "Sure, you would be great for a couple of days, then..." That's BS. We would go months without any problems, but would cycle back into our problems (really, they centered on not knowing how to fully love the other in a way that they wanted to be).

But now, we know what they are...know how to fix them. But she just says that it is too late. I asked her what it would hurt to find out "one more time," to make sure that she is not walking away right when she has a chance on getting it all. She said that what she would lose is any self-respect that she would have for herself. She also said that she doesnt see how it is possible because she feels nothing but anger toward me (although she told me Sunday that she does love me...confusing??) and that she wants someone to laugh with again, to enjoy life. Well, how the hell do we do that when me (and the kids) see her maybe once a week, she is living in her own apartment, she has this attitude about us and not willing to do any counseling together now (feels it is pointless now...more on that below)? Who knows, maybe she wants to win back the OM from his new GF. Maybe she is liking all of the attention she is getting at work, because she has told me that she has been asked out by several men. Maybe she just feels that starting over is easier and more beneficial than making any effort at this. I knew if she left our house that it would spell trouble, and now she has her "freedom" and I do not see how I can Plan A where she can see it, and even if she sees it, what will it matter with the limited time we have together? And when we are together, she is constantly trying to push arguments and to make me the bad guy (how can she laugh with me if she is constantly jumping on me?).

She did admit that she played a role in the failure of our marriage and that she said that "I have learned from the failure of my first marriage (us!!!)." Sounds to me like she wants to think she has learned and will apply it to a better, 2nd marriage.

She kept saying she thought the day together we had Sunday and dinner last night was a bad idea. that it led to arguments. Guys, I have tried to stay away from this stuff and foster a fun and happy environment. But her anger causes her to launch in on me immediately and keep pressing me until I follow her. She says when she is around me, she feels a knot in her chest and invariably she ends up "feeling sick." She gets herself spun up. I told her that we werent having these problems just a few weeks ago, and that we were talking to Steve, that it seemed everything was working. But then, something happened (I am not sure what...unless it was the fact that she found out that OM was now seeing someone else) and the next thing I know, she is moving out and taking $11,000 with her. it just doesnt make any sense. But, I also dont know how the hell to do this and how she will realize this and come back when she says she feels this way, that she has no positive feelings for me, that I am no longer in a position to meet any of her needs (probably why she is doing what she is doing...to lock me out so that it will make it easier to do what she is doing). She is talking to no one now. She is relying totally on herself. And we can see where that is leading us.

She says if I really understood how she feels, then I would backoff. What the hell does that mean? I have no one following her, have no idea what she is up to anymore. I have only been to her place once since helping her move in. We talk briefly maybe once every two days (she has been in her apartment for 10 days now). I have not talked about OM or the affair, but when we have talked about this stuff, I have tried to concentrate on us. Really, I have tried to not even talk about us, but she keeps pushing and then the argument starts...then she starts showing where she is at. Not in love with me, shows no interest in doing anything except seeing the kids, is now considering that her life will have to include someone else to make her happy (new husband). I have backed off. But in that void, she is just running amok. So, how can I backoff more? Disappear (Plan B)? All that will do is to allow her to solidfy her new life and finish us off, in my opinion. I might be wrong. Some of you WSs may be able to help with this. I will talk to Steve tomorrow, but two weeks ago, right as she was moving out, he talked to both of us, he believed WW was in fog and in withdrawal (might be right on that due to her finding out about that time that OM has new girlfriend) and that I needd to Plan A her back. I just dont see it with her. But maybe this is the course everyone takes. Just dont see the road back for her, especially since she is running the other way and sees no redeeming value to our relationship. Remember guys and gals, I was gone for 7 months while the A happened. She has learned to live without me on many levels (although I supported her and maintained out friendship whjile I was there). But the LBs since I have been back have seriously hammered the friendship. So, what's left for her to want here, besides the kids? And I believe she thinks that when she finishes school next June, she will go to court and make sure that she gets them for atleast equal time, if not custody (right now, I have them 6-7 days a week because of her work and school schedule...would do that anyway even if we were still together).

Anyway, I am beginning to feel that maybe I just should walk. I have too many people around me saying "Oh, stop kissing her ***, she isnt coming back, she is just using you, get out now and get your life started again." I know MB and Steve know what they are doing and a lot of you have been exactly in my position. But then I look at my wife and say that she is one of the 5% that dont make it, that steve and everyone else doesnt understand her. That maybe these people are right, and what I like to call "pure evil" is now taken over her life, and she is abandoning me, kids, friends, etc for her selfish pursuits (school, job, OMs???).

YellowRose: I talk to steve tomorrow. The plan since she moved out was for me to keep from LBing (I have pretty much failed at that), to keep Plan Aing and concentrate on me and the kids, and that next week, he wants to talk to her again to see where she is at and start "playing me up" to her by showing her the changes that have been made. When she first talked to him in June, she was excited because she said for the first time, someone understood where she is at and what happened. She loved SAA. Even read it to me. But, she has talked to him two more times and she has increasingly been more hostile to his counsel. I think that is because she doesnt see how or want our marriage back and steve is about saving marriages. Plus, I think she may have trouble counseling with a male. I may ask him tomorrow if it is possible for her to be talking to Jennifer, at least for awhile). She did talk about the board here, that she liked some of the posts to me and what they were saying. She said it was too bad all of you didnt know the "full story" (meaning her side). I told her she should log on and present it. She hates computers, and plus with her busy schedule, I doubt she will.

Nick: Not doing real well here. In military terms, morale is getting extremely low, running out of resources, and even the will to fight. I have been fighting really since last september, with no resupply. I doubt Plan B will do anything but force her to divorce. Plan A has not worked, and if anything, she still has not recognized any changes, and the last three weeks, things have gotten worse with her moving out and our constant LBs. On filing, financial issues, etc, she is unwilling to even discuss it, let alone work with me. she says she doesnt believe that I will take care of the financial obligations she "says" I have and that she should just force the issue with an official separation. but when she does that, then the fight begins because we will have lawyers, and we will fight over money and stuff and kids...completely destroying any chance to pull this thing out. no, I do not have much hope, time or faith here. My options are all not good.

MITT: it is great to here from you and the info on you and your wife because you two have been here and have made it thru it. My problem is I have little trust in my wife making any changes in order for positive things to happen. All the work in the world wont help here if she doesnt see it (Or refuses to see it). Her work schedule, school schedule, study time, time out with friends, limited time with the kids....will leave no time for us. And even if there is a little time, she has the walls so built up that that time will be just used by her to validate why she is gone and to finish our marriage off. i know the fog statements are just that. It is knowing that is what keeps me still here. But, I have no confidence that she is going to come out of the fog, even with the OM now gone (maybe). Because I think she believes that she will be happier with someone else out there. i know she will have no trouble (I am not just saying this...she is gorgeous...has modeled before). She is getting constant attention and being asked out now (especially since she has no wedding ring on and people find out she is separated). With the walls and turmoil at my place, with little time to work on things, with her living 10 miles away, and with new OMs (or even the old OM showing back up) all kissing her butt and being "happy and funny and making her laugh," I see no chance on me doing anything that would allow her to want to work on us or give me a chance.

Hope: That's what I'd like to know. you said you were resentful and had enough too. but what will it take for her to "wake up" if she ever does. Read above about how Plan A is not going to work in her seeing the changes in me because there is no time, and she has outside influences to pull her away and make her not want to see it. Two months from now, I may have official paperwork sitting here by then, she's starting to date again, and i am stuck in my hell at home. Due to my religious beliefs (and was hers until this), I cannot date or be with anyone else until I am divorced. So, I have been alone In Bosnia and now back here since last september, and now she will run around, I will work on me and try to be here for her and hope she wakes up, and in the meantime continue to have no needs met in my life for at least another year. And I WANT TO believe that she is capable of pulling herself out of this fog, but I see too many things, too many people pulling her the other way...especially the attention of men and that being contrasted against our arguments and our problems. With the way she is thinking, why would she even consider coming back and trying?

<small>[ August 14, 2002, 05:55 PM: Message edited by: Mortarman ]</small>

Basically everyone, I am doing everything I can to take care of me and my kids and be the husband I want to be and that she wants, but with the distractions (school, work, guys hitting on her), the anger, her not being around to see the changes or even believing the ones she does see...I do not have any faith in her becoming that woman I used to know (character, morals, doing the right thing, love, etc). I think she is on a path of destruction, sees nothing of merit to our relationship, and is hellbent on taking me and the kids down the tube with her. I want to believe, and keep moving forward so far because i really have no other choice. but that does not mean I have faith in her making it.

<small>[ August 14, 2002, 11:40 AM: Message edited by: Mortarman ]</small>

Hi Mortarman,

I think she is still in the fog and withdrawal stuff. As far as guys hitting on her, well, my H used to tell me all the time how these women would hit on him. Is it really happening or is it happening in thier own minds? The dating scene gets old. I don't know for sure, having not dated much as a single mom, but from what I've heard, there truly is not that many men who want the burden of someone elses family. They see her right now as a single women with no responsibilities. No, I'm not suggesting she take the kids, so she can see what life is like asa a single mom. What I am saying is, she will see things differently once her head clears. Someday, she will miss her children greatly.

Do you best to not LB. Don't respond to her prodding. You could tell her that right now is not a good time to discuss the problems or our R. At this point, I dont' think either of you are ready to discuss it without LB'ing the other. She is probably pushing and prodding to prove to herself that she is right and you will never change. She may not even be aware that she is doing this. It may also bug her that you are not pestering her about the relationship. She might be afraid that she is losing you, but does not want to admit, maybe does not see it herself, or possibly does feel that she has the right to say anything because of guilt.

Hang in there. I know it sounds bad. I know when I thought my H was gone for good, he came back. Never say never.

Sue

Yup, I agree with Sue. I'm not sure I've heard a BS NOT lose hope yet. Your W is ANGRY and HURT and in the fog. GIVE HER TIME. You can't expect just to apologize and show a little change and she'll just drop all the attitude and come running in to your arms. I mean, I understand it would be nice...just HIGHLY unusual for a WS. You can't date right now anyway, so WHY NOT hang out and try to be the best family man you can?

Well, thanks for the replies. And I have tried my damndest to do what you all have talked about (I am talkiing to Steve in 10 mintues...so this will be a short post). I am interested in what you think of the turn of events for me yesterday.

I was checking phone messages yesterday, when I found a message from my WW's bestfriend asking how her "boob job" went. She said that my WW was supposed to call her, or the OM was supposed to call her once it was done to let her know how she was. it seems that the OM was to take her to and from the doctors, and she is staying at a nursing friends house recovering.

I knew nothing about any of this. I feel that the OM is fully involved with her again, that I was cut out of being with her (she could have died and I would have never known). With our financial problems, with her taking $11,000 from our account and moving out, with her pressuring me to pay her bills, and she spends $4000 on a new set of breasts for the OM. Well I called her friends house she is staying at, who lied to me and said she wasnt there. My WW called me back 10 minutes later, out of it from the surgery.

I told her "We are moving you home this weekend, going to see a counselor and you are going to stop this childish crap and we are going to fix our marriage. I have had enough!" She was astounded that I was saying she was going to move home. I asked if our marriage, our friendship, our family over with. She said "yes." I then said goodbye and hungup on her.

I am seeing my attorney this afternoon. I have been played. She may be in the fog, but that fog has allowed her not to make one good decision in the last year since this started. She is out of control (a woman making $500 every two weeks, with a $900 a month rent, school and everything else, and she spends half the money she "stole" from our family on boobs?). If there is love for me and our family, she is willing to risk it all for the OM, boobs, etc. Damn, she went and got a $150 haircut tuesday before coming over to my place for dinner.

She has continued to lie to me. the OM is involved (I now question the girlfriend stuff).

It is time to protect myself, and my kids. My doormat status of Plan A has now ended. She just doesnt know how bad she has made it for herself.

Keep posting guys and gals because it has been all of you that have helped me stay on the straight and narrow. I dont want to blow it now. But I do feel that my marriage is over. time to take care of the rest opf the family that she is ready to abandon.

Well...it certainly sounds like she is lying to you (this is typical BTW) and I agree you shouldn't be stuck with paying for her boobs or that she gets to keep all your money.

However...I think you're making the wrong choice as to how to handle it. I don't think that ordering her to get home and quit acting childish is going to make her feel more secure or that you're a safe haven to go home to. If you go ahead on the road you seem to have chosen...I believe that yes, most likely it will be over.

I'm glad you have an appt with SH. I hope he can offer some healthier choices. Good luck!

Mortar,

I'll agree with you there, having a breast enhancement at this point in her life is to say -- a little unusual????

I agree w/ H4F that ordering her home is not the thing to do either because she will not and the added pressure will push her even further...

The best thing you are doing is talking to Steve right now.

Let us know how the session goes / went...

MITT

I haven't posted in like, but your situation sounds painfully similar to mine.

The boob job, moving out and the $150 haircut are for one thing and that's to get her boyfreind back. She's already shown her willingness to give up everything so my advice to you is to let her. There's no way you're going to get her back right now. Let her pursue this guy with reckless abandon. That's the only way now. But you have to let her. Don't stand in her way. Be a man and protect your interests and your kids. It's freakin hard... I know. The thoughts and images are excruciating and none of this makes any sense at all.

The bright side is when she finally catches him, reality must and will hit. That's your chance to shine my freind but get to work on it now. You don't have a snowball's chance right now to compete with this intense of a fog but how you handle the now and in between is going to dictate how good you look when all this crap finally begins to really stink to her... and trust me, it will.

MM,

You are a soldier with mental toughness (its not easy). Try to block out everything she is doing and focus on you and your children. Do fun things with the kids - I know that is good anytime. I think if you not focus on the things you can not control, it would be easier for you. Put all your energy on you and the children.

Your WW - in her mind - its all about her, herself and her - no one else matters now, its pretty typical...

I feel your pain. Take Care of the kids. They will give you the strength and love that you need.

hi Motar,

Boob job, totally unnessary. I should know I have the natural set. They are more hassle than they are worth. I've always hated have a set slightly smaller than Dolly Parton. Men don't see you as a person, they see the boobs and really, I hated being treated as a piece of meat on a meat hook. I did learn to few good lines to put the gawkers in their place.

$150.oo haircut!!!!!, I hope it lasts a year. My h would kick me out if I spent that much on a cut. I'd kick him out if he spent that much on a haircut. No hair cut is worth that much.

I have to agree with the others, that ordering her home is not how you get positive results. She is in a deep fog. Take care of you and your kids. Plan A, so you are a better person from all of this. You need to look out for you and your children.

Oh, by the way, didn't you say in the agreement that was signed, that your lawyer did incorporate something to protect you with regards to if she saw OM again? Just thought of this as a way to protect yourself.

Anyway, I'd like to know what Steve said.

I hate to suggest this, but I wonder if Plan B might be the next step. This I would not do without Steve's guidance. He has the expertise I lack. It seems that Plan A, is difficult for you to do, and at this point, she does not seem too interested in working the M. When you stopped bringing up the R, she started, and then it would snowball into an LB. Did you read Surviving an Affair?

The down side to this whole thing, is the two oldest of your children will remember this. She will also have to work on rebuilding her relationship with them. Children get offended and hurt deeply when a parent does not see them as top priority. I know, my children are hurt because I'm not home much. I try to talk to them often, spend as much free time with them. Just recently I told them that this is almost over and I have one year left of school. I told them that then I will work one job, no school, and more time at home for them. They also know I do my best. Fortunately I have a job where I can adjust my hours once in a while, such as to attend my kids soccer games. I was trying to show them, I may not be home much, by they are still important. Does she try to talk to the kids?

Maybe she needs to face the harsh realities of life. By the way, 11,000 will not last that long, especially if she spent 4,000 on her boobs. That leaves her with 7,000. She needs to catch up her car payments if she intends to go to work and school. Filing bankrupcy, they will not allow her to keep the car, she will have to either pay for it, or return it. You said rent is 900 per month on rent. (My mortagage is not much higher than that). The money will not last whole year. Then what?????????.

From an earlier post.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> her not being around to see the changes or even believing the ones she does see </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">When the fog lifts, she will see. She will notice the change in attitude. Some of it can be sensed, such as a lighter mood, less tension. Tone of voice. It isn't always what is said, but is is the attitude, that is sensed. Calmer, more relaxed, it can be felt in the air. (does this make sense)

<small>[ August 15, 2002, 06:04 PM: Message edited by: Sue with hope ]</small>

The woman had major surgery without consulting her husband, with no concern for her children. She has proved herself untrustworthy....fog no fog she has done a grevious thing to her family. The money to me is the least of her deception. Obviously she is frivolous but even if you were the worst of husbands, which youre not, how could she risk her life, health and not think about her children. Any surgery is risky. I am sorry to be so unforgiving but these are the choices she is making. She has crossed the line. You must focus on your children, you are the only responsible parent they have. Also I dont think it was a bad thing to order her home, at this point I think it is vital to speak the truth to her...meaning enough of this crap. You want to live like a crazy person do it on your own...you want to be a wife your place is home. She will have to live with her choices. Protect yourself, protect the innocents in all this your children. You and your family remain in my prayers. Especially your wife because she truly is the most lost, she is taking potential happiness and throwing it out the window with both hands, without regard for her children, or their father...

Just hoping you are ok. I know it must be an emotional time for you. Hope it helps to know people are thinking of you and praying for you. Even amongst devestation there is goodness and happiness in the world. Normalcy, in a new form, will return. You will be the better man for it.
You are right...you are in His arms...moreso than ever now. Just dont forget that.

ayslyne

Mortar,

I've been out of town the past few days.

I don't see any updates from you. Can you please let us know how you are doing?

MITT

Hi Mortar,

How is it going?

I'm here, but I am not sure why. The last week has completely decimated me. I have had 6 hours sleep in the last 5 days. Not eating. Things are pretty out of control. Here's the update...

Last wednesday, my WW went and had a boob job done. I knew nothing about it. The OM took her there, stayed with her, was there when the bandages came off, and took her to her nursing school friend's home to recover. I found out due to a message left on her cell phone from her girlfriend. See above for that whole breakdown.

Thursday, I decided it was over. I had had enough. I toalked to Steve Harley and he agreed that I could not go on. He said that she is deep in the fog and there is nothing I can do now but take myself, and my kids away from her irresponsible and destructive behavior. So I set up an appointment with my attorney on Friday. Friday, I filled out paperwork with him to file for divorce, with full custody of the kids.

Later that night, my WW called me. I had told her on Wednesay when I called her after the surgery that she was never to call me again unless it was an emergency with the kids or she was coming home. She was upset when she called. She said she had watched some movie the night before and made her miss her family, the kids. She said that family, a home, etc is the basis of what she wants out of life and that she is confused because she knows she is going to lose that by leaving. She didnt know at the time that I had filed for divorce. I told her during the conversation, explaining to her that I cannot go on like this, with her back involved with the OM and our family being destroyed. She said I had to do whatever I had to do, that she wasnt going to stop me. She said that she wasnt on my timetable.

Saturday, I went to pick up my other two kids, who were vacationing with my WW's mom. When I got back that evening, my oldest had a baseball practice. My wife the night before originally asked if she could come along on the trip to pick up the kids. Even though I was trying to cut her out of my life, I agreed. But then she couldnt make it happen because she was still recovering 20 miles from me and I had to leave at 5am. So she asked if it was okay to come out to the practice that evening. I told her sure, that it was her boy as well as mine. She wanted to come over after the practice and talk.

After the practice, she walked up to me and I asked if she was still coming over. She said she first wanted to know what was in the divorce action. I told her I was seeking sole custody. She then went ballistic. Yelling at me, telling me I would never get sole custody, that I was just proving to her the worst fears she had about me. That I was just showing that I was unwilling to provide for her financially for the next year, now that she is gone even though she feels I owe her because of the 8 good years. And that any recognition for her efforts during the marriage were now gone and that I was trying to take her children away from her.

I told her my motivation for sole custody was two-fold. First of all, she has not made ONE good decision in the last year concerning herself, me, our family or those kids. Not one. I told her I could not allow her to drag those kids down in the direction that she is headed. the second reason is that there is no way I will EVER let the OM get near my kids. That I am willing to do whatever it takes to make sure he never has any influence or relationship with the. She was saying that if she married him, there was nothing I could do. I told her that she shouldnt be so sure. guys and gals...I mean it. This guy may have stolen my wife, helped destroy my famil and screw up my kids, but he will not get the full package. As much damage as he has helped cause here to my kids and their lives, there is no way I will let my kids go one more day with him involved or with him having any influence over them. I will protect them!! Even though I couldnt protect my wife from him.

she calmed down a little, but was still very mad. She said she had to go, that she had to think. So, I said we had to set up a time to talk Sunday, because my lawyer was filing Monday and we had better make sure that this was dead. She said okay, and that we would meet Sunday evening. I left the kids with friends and we met Sunday evening at my place. She came with a calendar book, wanting to set up her visits with the kids. i told her I wasnt going to talk about the kids tonight, that this was about her and I. She said that I cant keep the kids from her. I told her that I wasnt, but I wasnt going to discuss them tonight.

We then got into a conversation that basically resembled the ones we had in the past. Except she reiterated to me that she is confused, that she has had feelings the last four days like she wants to maybe come home, but here I go with this sole custody thing, and she says that only shows her that she cant come home, cant trust me. Say what?? She said she is not going to come home under pressure. She told me she had went to church that morning and that she was now comfortable with what she is doing (didnt she just say she was confused??? now I'm confused). That she feels God is allowing her to cast me off because I was destroying her. What Bible is she reading??

Anyway, she left saying she needed to think more (seems to be code word for "I have had enough talking and need to go call/see my boyfriend"). She did hug me, and gave me the first full kiss that I have had since this had all started. Still confusing.

Monday, I was so out of it because of all of this, and it being d-day. but, early in the morning, I decided I would take the kids over to her place and did. When I got there, she was so happy to see them she started crying, hugging and kissing them and even hugging and kissing me. While the kids were raiding the refridgerator, I noticed an open bottle of wine. I asked her if she was drinking alone. She said no. Comes to find out the OM had been over recently. I turned to leave, but she grabbed me and asked me to stay. I told her i would leave the kids with her for the day but then she saked me to stay, that she wanted to talk. She said she had been listening to the Dr. Harley tape I had given to her and that she wanted to practice radical honesty, for us to talk staright. I said that would be a welcome change.

We talked for two hours, with her telling me that yes, her and the OM were starting back up since she moved in on the 1st in her new apartment. that he had dropped his new girlfriend after she had called him. I went to leave again, but she again grabbed me and asked me to stay and talk. More torture, I suspect. she said that she is confused about the family. Said there are things she wants out of life that he cannot or wont provide. That she wants a family, and knows that by leaving, she wont have one. And she said she is unwilling to start one with anyone else because it would destroy our kids (like she isnt already destroying them). I asked her what all of the things were that he couldnt/wouldnt provide, but she said she wasnt prepared to tell me right now. I asked what his intentions were. She said she didnt know. I asked what her intentions were. Again, she said she didnt know. I found out that because I cut off all financial support after she moved out (her #1 need is financial), that he has stepped up and offered help. They were supposed to go out Sat and buy a car for her (he would co-sign...she would pay the payments) but she backed down because she said that it would mean that she was tied to him and she wasnt ready for that. I said that what does that mean? Isnt this whole thing about being tied with him? She said no (fog!!), that it was about us. Of course, if it was about us, then she wouldnt have moved into her apartment (I moved her in) and then days later restarted the affair. It is about him. But I do know that she is going to be in dire starights soon financially and she will accept his help. And that will make him even better in here eyes, just like him being there for the surgery. And I will look like crap because I didnt do anything. She said "Go ahead and not support me through this last year of school. And if I have to go to him for help, I will." Guys and gals, I hate that!! I want to provide for her but not if he is involved. Maybe that lets him in further and further pushes her away from me but I cannot see supporting her while I am essentially supporting their relationship and their future (her school and career).

I just don't understand how my Christian wife is where she is at. How can she do this? How can she feel comfortable about all of this? How can she not see what this guy is doing to her and what the two of them are doing to her family? I have no chance to break thru this guys. I know the statistics about how many affairs end up married. But I firmly believe now that they will beat the odds and get married. Do I think their marriage will fail? Oh yeah. But that is too late for me and the kids. Added to the fact that if they go to get married, I have to do whatever I can to keep the kids away from him, which means probably keeping them away from her.

She came over last night with the kids, stayed for dinner and helped me unpack and fix up one of the kids rooms. We talked a lot during this. But the basics I got from the conversation was "Me and the OM are fine, don't think by me telling you that I have issues with him or that I am confused about my family situation, that it means that we are having problems."

So, there it is. She will be served probably today. Except for the sole custody, she says she wont fight the divorce, that she doesn't know what she is doing but is not coming back anytime soon, if ever. That she is going to find happiness. She says she loves me but that love is not enough.

Where is the justice here? Where is the justice for my kids? This guy can walk in, screw up my wife in her most vulnerable time, destroy her faith, her marriage and her family, make her give up her morals and character, destroy my kids family, leave them with no home (just mom's place and dad's place)…and somehow this guy gets to keep my wife, her money from her career (even though it was us who sacrificed for her to get it) and if he marries her, gets my kids half the time (even though we suffered financially for years to keep her at home to make sure they had a great start). Where is the justice. Why does he get to sin, destroy and then get everything that I hold dear in my life? I doubt I can take much more of this. Something has got to change. I feel powerless to protect my wife from this, and from him. I feel powerless to protect my kids from this, from her and from him. While it seems that I cannot get her back, I need to protect these kids…from her and especially from him.

My anger toward the OM now is increasing as I had to go up and comfort my 4 year old last night as he woke up three times crying because Mom had left. This has to stop. He cannot get away with this, destroy people's lives and just get whatever he wants. Somehow, there has to be justice here, especially for the innocents that did not ask for this.

Hi Mortarman,
I'm always following your threads... as usual, this one is really deep and insightful. What a situation, so much cruelty, so many wrong things being done.
All I can say is: you're the only guy in this who has his head screwed on properly. Your wife seems to be headed down the wrong path. What you are doing is rightful, good and cool. Of course, it hurts, of course it's unfair, but I hope for you, like for everybody (incl. myself) in this situation, that the rightful will earn his right place, and the ones who are wrong not.

On a more practical level, firstly, you do have to find some calm & peace. Do sports. Eat. Sleep.

Secondly, get WW out of your system - she clearly grinds you down. take a time out. call it plan B. just dont let her close to you, screw with your head and manipulate your emotions for a while. Not sure whether filing for D was necessarily the only way & the right thing. What I would do is give the situation some time. Even if you're hugely dissappointed, even if you think it's over with a big O, dont forget that your WW has her head screwed on the wrong way at the moment. Or would logically thinking people act like that? Hardly.

That's it, so in summary: 1) look after yourself, and 2) avoid contact, forget her for a while.

Good luck

Mortarman,

I am so very sorry things have come to this.
I know I may get flamed, and also that I may be very very wrong, but in my opinion your WW has turned into a prime time deserving USER.

Everytime you let her have a bit of freedom she takes the hand, the arm, and whatever else is there to take.

You have faith in her lies about "being confused" "being scared" "needing space", and voila, she goes off to do whatever she damn pleases like a spoiled brat.

I am thinking that she knows what she wants to do everytime she does something. She took the money for her boob job and as passport out of the family home. She went off the family home, got the boob job, the hair cut, etc to recover her OM.

Now she is pushing YOUR buttons, and HIS buttons.

"My husband is abandoning me, *Sniff*, I have no money, help me!"

"The OM is willig to help me, if you don't pay for my stuff, prepare to be abandoned!"

This all sounds terribly manipulative. She claims she is confused now, yeaaaah right! She is using the "poor me" victim card. Saying you are all she was affraid of by filling. What, she was scared you actually still had a spine and self-respect to protect yourself and your kids from her wreckless behaviour???

Mortarman she is so deep in the fog she cannot even see beyon her nose.

Do plan B inmediately, and stop worrying about what she is going to do. If she goes running to OM, too bad, but pal, she is a CAKE EATER!

Alright sorry, I am just irritated she is making you go through this and your kids too.

Mortarman,

I think there is one thing you are not accepting, actually several things.

1. The OM has little to do with this. Your W went looking and found what she wanted. She went to the apartment and then called him and got him back. She has power over him and she enjoys the power. He will pay for her school, he will pay for her car, and he will continue to pay until he can no longer pay and then she will leave him high and dry. You won't have to do a thing to punish him, she will take care of that and she has said as much.

2. Your W is using you just as badly now. THe lack of financial support is a joke. Were you buying fancy cars and clothes in Bosnia? Who had most of your salary to spend? Who choose to go to school, work, and raise the kids while having your salary? She did. Buddy if all you mean to her is a meal ticket, then you are dummer than the OM. If he is so good for her, let him meet her needs for money, for a family, and for fidelity. Wanna bet he has something going on the side?? He will if he doesn't. Your W isn't going to be much fun while she goes to school and works, and probably tries to sneak some time in with your children.

Finally, I suppose since she has restarted the affair, your separation agreement no longer holds nor does the fact that you slept with her. It is a new affair right?

Mortarman, don't talk with her, don't argue with her, and don't try to please her. She is not ready to face what she has done and until she is there is nothing you can do, unless of course you want to support her, take care of the kids, while she goes to school and runs around with OM.

In short, Mortarman the only way this marriage gets saved is if she wakes up and that won't happen with you talking to her, argueing with her, or dealing with her in any way. Take care of your children, and do your best not to LB her. This last bit of advice is most easily accomplished if you don't talk to her.

I am sorry it has come to this and I am hope that eventually she does see the light. One last thought. IF there is a chance to reconcile after the divorce I wouldn't consider it until she graduates from nursing school.

Hang in there and God Bless,

JL