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Joined: Jul 2002
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TerryFX Offline OP
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I just found out just over a week ago that my wife has had affairs on me with people at the factory where she works with two different men in two different Jan.'s. I am so freaked out that I can hardly stand it. I'm shaking like a leaf, my BP is out of control and I can't stop thinking about her doing it with someone else. She's even a Christian (as well as myself) and it's all being blamed on me and my work status. I did it by myself last night and she asked me this morning if I ever did that and I was honest and said yes and she blew up saying that I can't make love to his freakin wife or something of that nature. It's like dah, what did you just tell me you have been doing? Who went to the Dr. to check for diseases? Who has been devastated here? How do I get intimate with her again, or will it happen. It's weird, she must think I can just forget about it all and go back to doing it. She's got to have a mental problem or something. How do I get to where I stop seeing her getting it on with two other men, both single sexual predator types? Has anyone made it through this crap. I'm about ready to have a nerveous breakdown. I'm trying to keep us together, but boy is she making things even harder than they already are. Please advise?

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Are you in counseling? Together and/or individually? It may be a very good idea.

In any event, I'm sorry I can't really tell you how to get past all this, but I can tell you it is possible. My husband was haunted by those thoughts, images, dreams, etc. for a long time. Today we are 1 yr. into rebuilding, things going reall good for us, bad thoughts are far and few, and looking at a very promising future.

What it will require is a lot of work and understanding on both your part and your wife's part. As you want her to understand your thoughts and feelings, and you want her to hear your voice, you will need to do the same in return. One person always has to be the leader, and the other person is sure to follow. Communication is the key, and being certain to learn to communicate productively is a must.

Sure she wants it to just all go away - don't you? I can pretty much guarantee you do. It's only natural. So, don't feel negative at the fact that she feels the same way. (I'm not saying you are, but you may come to that point and I'm just saying to keep in mind it's the same as you wanting it to just go away.)

Truth is, we all want it to just go away, but we also know it won't just happen that way. You are new in all this. It takes a lot of time, but it is well worth it. Forgive and forget? Remember, they are two very very different things, and you CAN do one without the other. You know the truth, and I get the feeling you want to work on your marriage and hope for a better and brighter future with your wife. So, then is it accurate that you have come to a point that you can forgive what she has done? If so, tell her this. Let her know you forgive her but that forgetting will take time and work; time and work you are more than willing to put into it and hope that she is too.

My husband and I have wonderful intimacy in our marriage. Not just sexual intimacy, but intimacy all around. Sure, there are still some things that require some more fine tuning, but we communicate about that and are continually working on it so that we never go in separate directions again.

I hope this helps some. Stick around here. There are a lot of great people here and they are a wonderful help. My best to you - take care.

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Terry;
Terribly sorry to hear about your situation. MB is a good place to come for learning and support. I hope you make use of all its resources.

In the menatime, here are 2 articles on forgiveness which may help you:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Forgiveness is a Gift You Give Yourself
Are you someone who walks around feeling angry with your spouse or loved one much of the time? Do you have a little inner voice that constantly reminds you of all of his or her wrongdoings? Have you become expert at remembering all the minute details of past injustices just so that you can keep score? If this describes you at all, you better read what I’m about to say and take it to heart.
Lack of forgiveness imprisons you. It takes its toll on your physical and emotional health. It keeps you stuck in the deepest of relationship ruts. No matter how justified you feel about your point of view regarding your partner’s insensitive behavior, you still are miserable. When you wake up each morning, a gray tint shadows your life. You walk around with a low-grade depression. You can’t feel joy because you’re too busy being angry or feeling disappointed.
In the face of these fairly obvious disadvantages, you hang on to your belief that, since you feel let down, you must not “give in.” To you, giving in means forgiving, letting go, making peace. To do so, would be tantamount to giving up your soul. So, you keep your distance. You interact in perfunctory ways, never allowing your partner to step over the emotional line you’ve drawn. And though the distance often feels intolerable, forgiveness is not on your short list of solutions to your dilemma.
I have worked with so many couples who say they want to heal their relationships. And yet, when they’re offered the tools, they can’t seem to move forward. These are the couples who, instead of finding effective ways to get beyond blame, continue to repeat their mantra, “Our problems are your fault and you must pay.” As long as they maintain this mindset, they are doomed to failure. How very sad. Even sadder are their children who, on a day-by-day observe their parents being “right” but “miserable.” What lessons are they learning about love?
If any of this strikes a chord with you (and you wouldn’t be reading this if it didn’t), you need to internalize that forgiveness is a gift you give yourself. Letting go of resentment can set you free. It can bring more love and happiness into your life. It opens the door to intimacy and connection. It makes you feel whole. Forgiving others takes strength, particularly when you feel wronged, but the fortitude required to forgive pales in comparison to the energy necessary to maintain a sizable grudge. The person most hurt by holding out or blaming is YOU, no matter what the circumstances.
“All this sounds good,” you tell yourself, “but how can I ever forget what my partner did to me?” Good question. You don’t! Forgiveness is not the same as forgetting. You will probably always remember the particular injustice(s) that drove you into your corner. But what will happen, is that when you forgive, the intense emotions associated with the event(s) begin to fade. You will feel happier, lighter, more loving. And these renewed positive feelings won’t go unnoticed. Others will be drawn to you.
Just keep in mind that forgiveness isn’t a feeling. It is a decision. You decide that you are going start tomorrow with a clean slate. Even if it isn’t easy, you make the determination that the alternative is even harder, and that you are going to do what you must to begin creating a more positive future.
So promise yourself, that no matter what the reason, you will not go another day blaming your partner and feeling lonely. Make peace. Make up. Make love. I promise you that the benefits of deciding to forgive go far beyond anything you can picture in your mind’s eye at the moment. Your decision to forgive will create a ripple effect of exponential changes in your life.
Michelle Weiner-Davis
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Forgiveness
From “After the Affair” – Janis Abrahms Spring, PhD
Learning to forgive p. 238 (Excerpts)

If your goal is reconciliation, forgiveness requires restitution. Forgiveness is a two-person process; you can’t forgive those who refuse to acknowledge and redress the harm they’ve caused you-you certainly can’t have a vital, intimate relationship with them.

“True forgiveness cannot be granted until the perpetrator has sought and earned it through confession, repentance, and restitution.” - Judith Lewis Herman

A partner who wants to be physically and psychologically connected to you must work to win forgiveness through specific concrete behaviors. Unearned forgiveness, like unrequited love, reinforces the assumption that it’s your job alone to stay attached, that your partner doesn’t need to share the burden of recovery. If you have even a shred of self-esteem, you’re likely to find this a dysfunctional notion.

“While reconciliation may be a desirable outcome, psychologically, forgiveness has to be earned. To forgive people who do not acknowledge the injury, or even worse, rationalize their injurious behavior as having been deserved (or justified), is to sustain the injury all over again.” Robert Lovinger (Clinical Psychologist) in “Religion and Counseling”

The truth is, however, that you, the hurt partner, won’t ever forget how you’ve been deceived, whether you forgive or not. Years later, you’ll still be able to recall the exact moment of the revelation, and all the gory details of the affair. You, the unfaithful one, are likely to want your partner to forgive and forget so that you can move on to a peaceful reconciliation, but you can’t rush the process. If you don’t attend to the damage you’ve caused, your partner probably will.

When you forgive, you don’t forget how you’ve been wronged, but you do allow yourself to stop dwelling on it. Your hurtful memories are likely to stay alive, but relegated to a corner of your mind. You continue to see the damage, but only as part of a picture that includes the loving times as well-the ones that remind you why you’ve chosen to stay together. The past may continue to sting, but it’s also likely to teach come important lessons and inspire you to do better.

Forgiving, in short, entails conscious forgetting, which Jungian analyst Clarissa Pinkola Estes describes as “refusing to summon up the fiery material…willfully dropping the practice of obsessing…, thereby living in a new landscape, creating anew life and new experiences to think about instead of the old ones.”

Unearned forgiveness is pseudo forgiveness. It’s something you grant, not because your partner deserves it, but because you feel pressured to, either by others or by romantic moralistic assumptions about what forgiveness means. Given rashly or prematurely, it buries the pain alive, and robs you and your partner of the chance to confront the lessons of the affair and properly redress each other’s wounds.

It is commonly assumed that forgiveness is not just a gift to your partner, but a gift to yourself, in service of your best self, and that it imbues you, the forgiver, with a sense of well-being, of psychological and physical health. By forgiving “you set a prisoner free, but you discover the real prisoner was yourself”.

The idea that forgiveness is categorically good for you is popular both with the general public and with professionals, but it hasn’t held up under study. In fact, it has been shown in some cases to be anti-therapeutic, spawning feelings of low self-worth in the person who forgives.
“A too ready tendency to forgive may be a sign that one lacks self-respect, and conveys-emotionally-either that we do not think we have rights or that we do not take our rights very seriously,” writes Jeffrie Murphy in “Forgiveness and resentment”. Murphy goes on to point out that a willingness to be a doormat for others reveals not love or friendship, but what psychiatrist Karen Horney calls “morbid dependency.” My own clinical experience confirms that unearned forgiveness is no cure for intimate wounds; that it merely hides them under a shroud of smiles and pleasantries, and allows them to fester.
You may have been taught by family or religious leaders that forgiveness is a redemptive act-a form of self-sacrifice that good people make to their enemies. By forgiving, you demonstrate your compassion and innocence, and preserve, or create, an image of yourself as a martyr or saint.
Forgiveness by itself, however, is not admirable-unless, of course, you believe that silencing yourself and denying yourself a just solution is admirable. What you consider magnanimity may in fact be nothing but a way of asserting your moral superiority over your partner and freeing yourself from your own contributions to the affair. What you see as self-sacrifice may serve the larger purpose of putting your partner under your control, under a debt of gratitude that can never be fully repaid.

The problem with expedient forgiveness-forgiveness granted without any attitudinal or emotional change towards the offender-is that it’s likely over time to exacerbate feelings of depression and grief, and feed an underlying aggression toward your partner. Those who forgive too quickly tend to interact with false or patronizing sweetness, punctuated by sarcasm or overt hostility. The result is a relationship ruled by resentment, petty squabbles, numbness, surface calm, and self-denial- a relationship lacking both in vitality and authenticity.

A patient named Pat modeled expedient forgiveness when she put her husband’s affair behind her long before the two of them had examined its meaning and put it to rest. “I know Henry never stopped loving me,” she told me. “I don’t need him to beg for my pardon.” Eight years later, however, though Henry never strayed again, they were still stumbling over trust and intimacy issues.

As I’ve said, “making nice” settles nothing. If you want to pave the way for genuine forgiveness, you can’t sweep what happened under the table. You need your partner to understand your pain, feel remorse, apologize, and demonstrate a commitment to rebuilding the relationship. To heal, you need to forgive, but your partner must apply salve to your wounds, first.

(Note: I believe the above is exactly what may have happened after WW’s first affair, when we did not address the issues, did not fully understand what had happened and what needed to change, and the mere end of the relationship brought “forgiveness”.)

Self-Forgiveness
In addition to forgiving your partner for wronging you, you should consider forgiving yourself for the wrongs you’ve inflicted on your partner, your family, and yourself.
For you, the hurt partner, these wrongs might include:

• Being overly naïve, trusting too blindly, ignoring your suspicions about your partner’s infidelity;
• Blaming yourself too harshly for your partner’s betrayal;
• Tolerating or making excuses for your partner’s unacceptable behavior to preserve your relationship;
• Having such poorly developed concepts of self and love that you felt un-entitled to more;
• Hurting and degrading yourself for making unfair comparisons between yourself and the lover;
• Feeling so desperate to win your partner back that you acted in ways that humiliated you-in front of the lover, your family, your friends;
• Losing your sense of self; losing sight of what you value in yourself;
• Putting your kids in the middle by needing them to support you, love you, and take your side against the other parent;
• Being so upset by the affair that you weren’t there for your children;
• Isolating yourself unnecessarily; trying so hard to protect the feelings of your children and parents that you cut yourself off from their support;
• Contributing to your partner’s dissatisfaction at home (for example, by failing to take your partner’s grievances seriously; getting buried in your career or in the needs of your children; being too critical, unavailable, or needy).

You, the unfaithful partner, should consider forgiving yourself for:

• Feeling so needy, so entitled to get your needs met, that you violated your partner;
• Exposing your partner-the person you love, the parent of your children-to a life-threatening disease.
• Blaming your partner for your dissatisfaction, without realizing how your own misperceptions, misbehavior, and unrealistic expectations compromised your relationship;
• Developing attitudes that justified your deception and minimized the significance of your actions;
• Failing to confront your partner with your essential needs; acting in ways that blocked your partner from satisfying them;
• Having unrealistic ideas about mature love that rendered you incapable of tolerating disenchantments in your relationship;
• Having such poorly developed concepts of self and love that you didn’t know how to create and sustain intimacy, or feel satisfied in a committed relationship;
• Inflicting chaos on your children, family, and friends.

No matter how your partner may have contributed to your unhappiness at home, you, the unfaithful partner, are solely responsible for your deception, and need to forgive yourself for the harm you’ve cause by violating your covenant of trust. You may also want to forgive yourself for the hurt you’ve caused your children. This may be an easier task if you can teach them through your own example that two people who love each other can make mistakes, take responsibility for them, and work together to renew their lives together.
It may help you and your partner to forgive yourselves if you learn to accept yourselves as fallible, erring human beings-conditioned, confused, struggling to make the most of a life you neither fully understand nor control. Self-forgiveness doesn’t relieve you of responsibility for your words or actions, but it may release you from self-contempt and from a “crippling sense of badness” that makes you believe “I can’t do better.” With self-forgiveness, you bring a gentle compassion to your understanding of who you are and why you acted the way you did, and reclaim what you most value in yourself.

To “forgive and forget” is just a popular saying. Forgiving and forgetting are two completely different notions, and rarely go together in the real world.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

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TerryFX,

WOW!! So many questions. So many things going through your mind all at once. It is time to focus on one thing at a time. You are already talking about recovering your feelings for her and you have not even finished dealing with all the other issues. Take all of this in stride. Take a day off of work to think if you have to.

There are many phases to getting through all of this and keeping your sanity:

The first phase I like to call DISCOVERY. In this phase you get together a long list of questions. Since she told you about this, she is more likely to be open with you now more than at any other time. So try to find out all of what you need to know. Questions like, why did you do it, what did you do, are you in Love with the other men, what did I do or not do to make you feel like you wanted an affair, where you looking to have an affair, are the affairs over etc. You will need these answers to start the next phase, DECISION.

There is another phase that I call the DECISION phase where you try to determine if the journey ahead is worth it. In this phase you write down all you know and love about your WW. You think back on your marriage and determine if at least 20% of the time you were happy with her. If you were happy at least this amount, then recovery is possible. Look at the answers to the above questions. Is she IN LOVE. If she is in love, then this process is going to be so much more difficult then if it was just one night stands. If they were one night stands, then you have to question her character.

If you decide to continue, you enter into the next phase and that is the PLANNING phase. Here you spend a short period of time reading things on this site to determine whether to plan A or Plan B. Based on your post, I would say start with Plan A. Set a time period where you are willing to put up with this. Typically, 6 months is a good guess. It usually depends on how much love you have for her still.

The next phase is the defined by Plan A or Plan B and always includes learning, understanding, and changing. You have to understand that typically the A is not the cause of the problems in the marriage. The A normally occurs as a symptom of something that went wrong. More than likely, she was missing some Emotional Needs (EN) and looked or acted elsewhere on her needs. So, you have partial responsibility here. What she did was wrong and inexcusable, but in order to move on, you also have to take some responsiblity. There are ways to help prevent A's and that is to ensure that each of you fill each other's most important EN's.

In summary, SLOW DOWN. Take things one step at a time. Read and learn. Go through the required phases so you do not have so much to focus on all at once.

Keep Posting.

Some questions:
Is the affair over?
Can you talk with her without getting visually upset (love busting)?
How long has the A been going on?
Do you know the Other Men?

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To Chameleon and others. My wife and I will be married for 20 years this coming Sept. if we make it that far. We have two boys, 12 and 14 who's our pride and joy. I am 48 and she is 38. She is a beautiful woman who has let sexual predator type men got to her right at times she was down and they came to her rescue so to speak. I know where one lives and his name and other information and I sort of left a message on his phone about it's not nice to screw around with married women. I want to get the same information on the other guy, but the wife will not give me any details like that. I want to put some fear in him as well. These types will keep doing what they do if they are not stopped. As far as her affairs, the first guy took place in Jan in 2001 and was a quickie sort of thing and the last guy was this past Jan. and it lasted the whole month for several sex sessions. The wife said it was over months ago and that same guy starting hitting on her again just a few days ago and she sort of told him off and told him that he was walking on dangerous ground and that she told me. He asked her why she told me and told her garbage like she's special. It's unreal to me and she works in the same building as with both of them. It's weird, so weird. She just called me from work on her cell and checked on me and told me she loved me, after yesterday telling me she didn't and then giving me dealline of Thursday to get a job. I've been self employed for 22 years, at times making big money and at times, not making anything, but I would never consider problems such as that grounds for affairs. My pastor just wants me to forgive her and move on so that God can work on us both, while another good pastor friend says she needs counciling bad and quick and understands that it's not that easy right now to forgive her. It's unreal to be in this position and my kids wants us to stay together and it's been an emotional roller coaster for them. My oldest said one day at the water park, dad she said she is sorry, just forgive her and go on. I had to come out and tell him more specifics that he didnt' know, such as it was two guys and several times. It's just not that simple. I'm trying, I just hope I can get my nerves settled and my BP down. It's made me a wreck and I'm physically messed up as well. Thanks to everyone who has replied to my delima.

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Tutter13

Just curious, how long was it until you started having sex with your husband again? Please look over my previous reply too. My wife's affair is supposed to have been over with after Jan.. It took place then 2=3 times she says. Please help me understand and be able to cope with this crazieness.

TerryFX


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