Well, here's a brief update... It's always encouraging to see positive words from others, so hopefully some from me can provide some encouragement.

Haven't communicated with WW in about 6 days now, from the last e-mail... that one was fairly close to the draft I'd posted here, but with some minor modifications. I had passed it by IC/MC, and her response was "Much Better!" (as compared with a venting-type of letter I'd sent IC/MC a few days before).

So WW has respected my NC wishes quite well. And now today, I get an e-mail from her, mainly business-related, but she addresses me as, "Hey Handsome", says, "Working hard - missing you", signs it "Love" (fairly unusual as of late!).

Maybe some signs of thinning fog? I'd like to believe so... her tone is fairly relaxed, not paniced like she's got to reel me in, but almost "Plan A"-like! Wouldn't that be wonderful? To be on the receiving end of some Plan A??

Don't worry, I'm not getting too excited or setting any expectations - I'm maintaining Plan B for now, and will only respond based on business... but I do like where things are going... for me also, notwithstanding WW, the path is getting easier.

<small>[ July 30, 2002, 12:16 PM: Message edited by: J.R. ]</small>

Hi JR, glad to hear you are more comfortable with plan B and that WW is 'waking up'. Good luck

J.R.
Sounds like you made the right move to plan B and that it is having the efffects that you need it to have. Best wishes with the process, keep the hopes and espectations low!!! Remember that!

Dawn <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Now will you go read my post and tell me what you think!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Glad to hear that you feel things are looking up. I truly hope they are! Even though you feel better, don't forget to be nice to yourself and treat yourself well!

Hmm, yes indeed, we can always hope for the best, but expect the worst!

The best in this case is that she's definitely getting some religion... and that it's shaking her to her core.

The worst is that she's consciously trying to bait me back into her "den of lies"... trying to get me to admit I'm so lost without her that I could die... bleh. She's got another thing coming.

Reality is it's probably somewhere in the middle. I doubt she's anywhere close to being "ready" for true recovery, but she seems pretty close to willing to try a few false attempts. Sorry, girlie... I'm holding out for the "good stuff"... all or nothing, I say.

I'm continuing to be very upbeat in my business-only replies. Even injecting some humor... and some mystery. Yup, had to mention I'm going out of town again next weekend......

This is good news, JR, and we're happy for you.

I think you're taking the right, cautious approach to this. BUT, those ARE positive words you're hearing. Proof that something's coming through!

Like I've said before:
"Plan for the worst, hope for the best, and hang on to your hats!"

And

"The words open the door, the actions keep it open...cautious optimism, wary eyes, open arms!"

Wow... well, things keep getting more and more... interesting?

Another e-mail from her as follows:

Hey,
Yep - I sure can come and take care of the cats. I can only imagine
what Amber looks like - it must be quite the sight! Did she put up a
big stink (that could be taken in two ways, knowing her)?

Its probably good that we got a station wagon. If we got anything
sportier there may not be any tires left at all! Zoooom......

I've been thinking about you. Don't worry - all good thoughts.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Love,
WW

I really want to believe... but right now I've got a lot of skepticism and mistrust... any added words of wisdom?? Am I being set up, or is she really starting to come back to reality??? I don't know what to think or feel right now!

My gut says SLOWLEEE... SLOWLEEE... it's good I'm talking to IC/MC tonight - we can compare notes on where she is. I passed WW's messages onto IC/MC, and she tends to think the fog is clearing... we shall see... another Plan B success in the making???? Stay tuned.

JR,

I would guess that the "steady as you go" is the best advice. However, in my line of work (research) I have found it useful to ask myself a question BEFORE I start the research program. The question is: "How would I know I have found the answer if I got it?"

I think you might benefit from considering such a question. How would you know when it was time to work on the marriage and come out of Plan B. When she says OM is out of the picture, but still working with her? When she claims she wants to "try". When, what will it take.

Also how are your plans to move back home coming? Have you formulated a time schedule for doing that? I hope you have. I think that eventually you need to be where you are happiest not where WW is currently camping.

Must go, but do think about my question.

God Bless,

JL

I'd be extrememly cautious and continue in your current plan. She may be coming out of the fog atleast enough to know she definatly wants to keep you a part of her life, but that doesn't mean she's figured out what that really entails. Even if she knows it means she leaves OM behind...she still might not realize it involves more than that.

Give this plan the time it deserves. If she really comes out of the fog you'll hear less flirting and more apologizing. I didn't walk back in to H's life by trying to seduce him...it was by apologizing, admitting I was a stubborn fool, and offering him promises and proof to back it up that I was ready to commit to our marriage.

Yes all... your words balance me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

As for plans, I'm not deviating... she knows what's needed. My requirements are clear. I'm not interested in false recovery, or being an OM myself, on the side.

As for what it'll take... I'm willing to listen to her - when she is willing to provide enough assurances - then we're getting somewhere big. Until then, I'll quietly welcome her attention as showing she wants me in some way... and to know that OM would be fuming if he knew she was talking to me in such a way <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

As for moving back home... I think that ties into my "larger plans" that are slowly unfolding. There is a schedule around things, in my mind. I'll keep on my path, into October at which time a sit-down, face-to-face, heart-to-heart is likely going to happen where I lay everything out on the table - and on the line. If she continues her current (apparent) path towards me... then by that time, it should be an easy choice for her. If not, I'll be willing to state my honest position and feelings - of which I think are becoming clearer - and that would allow me to move on with or without her. It will become clear by then that I won't be staying here beyond the end of the year, period. My matter-of-fact calm and confident approach should tell her a lot about how serious things are at that point.

As for seduction vs. apologizing... I hear you... I think she might be starting to figure things out, but might not know how to proceed at this point. She has apologized in the past, but words are one thing - actions are another. My stance - of not allowing her to get closer to me while OM is in the picture - is going to remain indefinitely. So I agree - time is the factor that should help "educate" her, as she realizes that these feelings for me aren't going away, might be getting stronger, and yet she can't act on them because of my "conditions" - spelled out in my letter. As her desire to pursue grows, yet is unfulfilled, I would hope her love is "cemented" more and more... and that's where part of my plan - tough but loving - comes into play. As Dobson puts it, we're trying to build bridges to these WS, not burn them as we go... So what little interaction we do have shows me as the confident, poised and charming guy that I am <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I apologized over and over too....much like she's done in the past:

I'm sorry, I never meant to hurt you, I never wanted this to happen, I didn't go out looking for this etc etc etc....

When I came back it was:

Yes, I was a total @sshole, I am SO SORRY I treated you like total cr@p. I know you tried and I just pushed you away. I know I blamed you for everything, I was just still so angry and confused. I'm sorry I pushed you away and soooo sorry I ran away from us over and over. I know I love you, but I also know I can let you go. I know we'll continue to work to remain friends and coparent...but I also now know we could work together too, if given the chance again. I wouldn't screw it up this time, and I wouldn't run away this time. I know what committment means now, and I'm willing to do whatever it takes.

See the difference? The first one is all "I didn't mean" like everything was some accident. While it's true I DIDN'T mean for all of this to happen...I still didn't do what it took to stop it either. I was weak, and I DID treat my H like most WS's do. I was as selfish and angry as they come...and I'm still very ashamed of how I acted. I never wanted to believe I could be that way. Now I'm just hoping that I've gained enough knowledge to know it CAN happen, but I don't have to LET IT! Committment and control...that's what I learned.

H4F, huh, funny thing is on a couple of occasions, even during the thick of this, she was able to admit, "I've used my anger and resentment to justify my bad behavior". Her very words. Those words usually emerged in a moment of fog clearing, brought on by something large, such as a major blow-out with OM, I suspect. Usually they were short-lived - within a day she'd be back to her old cold self.

This time is hard to know, because I'm not there to gently probe her mind. But that's perfectly okay... she knows my stance, as I've reinforced it time and again for her - and will keep doing so gently but firmly - by Steve's suggestion.

I think she's finally starting to realize that she really COULD lose me. Of course, I don't want her back for shallow reasons - I want her back because her feelings have changed enough to let us have some success. It will take more time, and more evidence of such. I'm off to talk with IC/MC this evening, so that should be interesting. I'll be curious to see how WW's recent words to me match up with what her an IC/MC have been talking about in private for the past x months.