I have been implementing the "Last Resort Technique" from the "Divorce Remedy" book, started a little over a week ago.

He has tryed to call me on my cell phone a few times, I did not answer. I finally answered it this past Thursday. I acted cheerful, did not mention anything about our relationship. He asked me if I would like to decorate a birthday cake for his grandmother and take it to her (I have not seen her for over 18 months, before the affair). I told him, "we'll see". He said he would come over on Saturday to fix something in the house.(yesterday, 7/27), I said I might be there.

He came over on Saturday.

He started immediately talking about how I would feel on moving (closer to his new job) in the next few months, but then said "if we were to stay together".

He kept bringing up alot of things like that and then said "if we were to stay together".

I told him that I did not want to discuss our future together until he made a decision on what he wanted. He then said "hypothetically speaking, if we were to stay together". He then said, "I swear on my life, that if I am going to come home, that it will be in the next 2 weeks".
I then said "I am not getting my hopes up". He then said "you have more hope now than you ever had".

I changed the subject.

Then, out of the blue, he said "I am so sorry for what I have put you through this past 18 months". This is the first time he has ever apologized.

I said nothing, what could I say, he is still living with OW!!

He then said "I have not been happy for the past year, I have been miserable. Even though I acted like I was happy, I am not".

I said nothing. I changed the subject. I wanted to say "just come home", but I knew I would not get a straight answer!!

From my reading, my understanding is not to cave in until I am absolutely sure that he wants to save our marriage.

Am I correct to keep implementing the LRT? I think it is the only way since he is still living with the OW.

Am I correct on changing the subject when he wants to talk about the future. In the past, I was always the one wanting to talk, he did not.
This is the first time in the past 18 months that he has initated any "future talk".

He also told me that he would never have asked me to take his grandmother's cake to her if he was not serious. She is a very sweet old lady, and the only one from his family that has sent me birthday or Christmas cards, she wants to see us back together.

While we were out shopping, out of the blue, he kissed me on the cheek, I asked him why he did that (I was surprised!!, I didn't say it mean). He told me because I looked cute.

Anyway, I haven't heard from him since Saturday, I know that he went out of town yesterday with one of his best friends to a race.

Should I let him contact me next again??

My goodness ... you are so well controlled ! I applaud your ability to put forth such a calm demeanor in the face of his indecision ... You did GREAT !

Let him come to you ... that is my opinion. Live your life according to YOUR standards and principles ... and he can see just what a woman of substance looks like. If not ... well then, his loss.

Good Job !

Pepper <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
[QB]My goodness ... you are so well controlled ! I applaud your ability to put forth such a calm demeanor in the face of his indecision ks like. QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Don't know what else to do, I am not ready to do a full-fledged Plan B. It was definitely hard, I was more surprised than anything else, I didn't really know what to say, so I didn't say anything at all!!

I will have to see how it goes from here, let him do the contacting but when he does I will be a "pleasure" to be around, but make him wonder a little bit!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Just sent WH a quick email letting him know his dentist left a message for him on our voice mail.

He sent me a message back and in it told me as an FYI, he was staying with one of his friends this week!!!

Positive?? I hope so. I know, do not expect anything!

going-crazy

How helpful have you found "The Divorce Remedy" and how does it compare to SAA.

My WW and I have been seperated for about 2 months. Although she told me last week that she is not seeing OM, only talking to him on the phone, I found out without her knowledge that she went to see a lawyer. I am ordering this book. I have come to the point where I do want our marriage to work, but only if she is willing to put in a lot of effort on her part also. I have been holding on with everthing that I have to make things work and I'm just about fed up.

Thank you and God Bless

Going Crazy,
I would view this as a very good sign,but still be cautious. My WS came back to me
a few months ago, this all sounds very familiar. My advise would be to continue what you are doing.. I called it a modified Plan B, in other words, Plan B when WS is not around but then switch to Plan A when WS makes contact with you. It seemed to work very well but let him make the contact with you, and let him come back to you. After 18 months I am sure he is finding out that the grass is not greener on the other side, this is about the right time frame for this to happen. I am glad to see he is starting to take on the responsibility for the A and state that he is sorry, this is also a very good sign. You are doing great, keep up the good work, I want to hear about another success story here..
Take care,
Dave

I am sooo happy for you! congrats.. and keep being cool... how long have you been in mod. plan b? L

That's totally great! I feel so happy for you. Hang in there!I love to read sucess stories...they help to motivate and keep my hopes alive.

it took about 2 months of a modified Plan B for my WS to become my W again.... I think that a Plan B or modified plan B is most successful after a good Plan A - show them the changes that you have made for yourself, and then show them what it is going to be like without you - reality.

Dave

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Biscayne:
<strong>How helpful have you found "The Divorce Remedy" and how does it compare to SAA.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I like both books, SAA is dedicated entirely on the affair. The Divorce Remedy just has a few discussions on it but I found them to be very helpful. Also, a few months ago, I had sent my WH a link which had an excerpt of the Divorce Remedy. I then checked it out at the Library, and asked WH if he wanted to read it. He took it, even asked me to renew it, don't know if he read it, or how much he read it.
I think that both Harley and Weiner-Davis share similiar viewpoints.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by davepr:
<strong>I called it a modified Plan B, in other words, Plan B when WS is not around but then switch to Plan A when WS makes contact with you. It seemed to work very well but let him make the contact with you, and let him come back to you. After 18 months I am sure he is finding out that the grass is not greener on the other side, this is about the right time frame for this to happen. I am glad to see he is starting to take on the responsibility for the A and state that he is sorry, this is also a very good sign. You are doing great, keep up the good work, I want to hear about another success story here..
Take care,
Dave</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Dave I do agree with the way you explained it, Plan B while away from each other and Plan A when I see him. When the grass is greener, the lawn needs mowed more often!!

Also, I just did not know how to react when he apologized, because he said it out of the blue. I can't tell him I forgive him until he fully changes his ways and leaves OW entirely. It is encouraging that he told me he was staying with one of his friends.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Honey:
<strong>how long have you been in mod. plan b? L</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think I started around July 18, give or take a day?? My days seem to blend together!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Confuse n Lost:
<strong>I love to read sucess stories...they help to motivate and keep my hopes alive.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">how about "progress story" instead of "success story", but hey, progress is better than nothing, but I am proceeding with caution!! This board has helped me so much, I wish I would have found it sooner. Also, I get a daily "Charlene Cares" daily devotional from www.rejoiceministries.org that keeps me motivated!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by davepr:
<strong>I think that a Plan B or modified plan B is most successful after a good Plan A - show them the changes that you have made for yourself, and then show them what it is going to be like without you - reality.
Dave</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Dave, I totally agree, I tried to do a really good Plan A, but I needed to disengage myself a little bit to keep me from LBing. I feel like now that I have a plan, I have more control over my life, my day to day activity and feelings are not dependent on him.

Today's Update: WH had sent me an email early this morning, just to complain about having to put alot of hours in, etc.

Trying to keep a positive outlook

My personal observation is that the LRT is a valid part of the "spectrum" between Plan A and B. It's built on basic principles of human nature...

I found it can be a bit tiring over time... not that Plan A isn't... Plan B certainly gets you out of the mess and allows you to focus on yourself. As Dave points out, there are ways to customize any plan... there is no "magic bullet" - you need to "know your spouse" and act accordingly. Also, if you try something and it doesn't work, it makes no sense to continue doing it... And furthermore, doing something "different" often gets noticed (the 180's of divorce busting).

I say "go with what works"! But... I think LRT can wear out its usefulness over time, much like Plan A... it can enable. I think Plan B (going "dark" in Divorce Busting-speak) is definitely the "ultimate" tool to introduce reality, regardless of whose book you're following!

going_crazy,

My hat is off to you!!!

Can someone tell me what is involved in LRT? The basics of it?

Replaced

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by J.R.:
<strong>My personal observation is that the LRT is a valid part of the "spectrum" between Plan A and Bthere is no "magic bullet" - you need to "know your spouse" and act accordingly.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree, to me it seems like a gradual process, right now in this point of time, I would feel manipulative about implementing a full Plan B, but that is just me and my sitatuion. If the time comes that I have to, I think I will be stronger.

I guess you could also say it is a detached Plan A, if that makes sense. Because really Plan A is about learning about yourself and making yourself better, but it is difficult to implement w/ husband living with OW, it is difficult to meet those emotional needs

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Replaced:
<strong>Can someone tell me what is involved in LRT? The basics of it?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">check out these two threads from Michele Weiner-Davis's website:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=24;t=005917#000020

The LRT is doing the unexpected, since my WH is not home, it is very difficult to implement a full Plan A, that is just my situation. I also think it allows you to implement more "Boundaries" (Cloud & Townsend) within yourself, especially emotionally. Right now at this time, I feel much stronger, but I'm sure that the emotional roller coaster will kick in soon!!
someone in that post mentions in there that it is similiar to the Dobson letter, without sending it. Very similiar to a plan B letter, without sending it. To me, it fits my situation right now. Even STeve H told me that if I was to ever go to Plan B, it would be a modified Plan B, not the classic textbook type. I have written many Plan B letters, but never sent them, but writing them also helped me get more emotions out, I should have started journaling along time ago (maybe I should start today)

here's also a post on how long you should wait:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=forum;f=41

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by davepr:
<strong>I would view this as a very good sign,but still be cautious. My WS came back to me
a few months ago, this all sounds very familiar. My advise would be to continue what you are doing.. I called it a modified Plan B, in other words, Plan B when WS is not around but then switch to Plan A when WS makes contact with you. It seemed to work very well but let him make the contact with you, and let him come back to you. After 18 months I am sure he is finding out that the grass is not greener on the other side, this is about the right time frame for this to happen. I am glad to see he is starting to take on the responsibility for the A and state that he is sorry, this is also a very good sign. You are doing great, keep up the good work, I want to hear about another success story here..
Take care,
Dave</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I will definitely be cautious. It is such a fine line to walk, how do you know when you can fully let the WS back in. How do you know that they are back for good?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Honey:
<strong>I am sooo happy for you! congrats.. and keep being cool... how long have you been in mod. plan b?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">July 18, give or take a day!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Confuse n Lost:
<strong>That's totally great! I feel so happy for you. Hang in there!I love to read sucess stories...they help to motivate and keep my hopes alive.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Let's say "progress" instead of success, how about that!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by davepr:
<strong>it took about 2 months of a modified Plan B for my WS to become my W again.... I think that a Plan B or modified plan B is most successful after a good Plan A - show them the changes that you have made for yourself, and then show them what it is going to be like without you - reality.

Dave</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree, I don't think that any type of Plan B should be implemented without a really good Plan A, when you limit contact you want to leave them with the best impression possible.

It's difficult for me to implement a full Plan A anyway, since he is not here, but I have tried so hard to do so. I don't know maybe I am still kind of doing a Plan A, with some detachment.

Who knows? I haven't heard from him today. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> But that's okay.

I do need some more advice though. It really took alot for my WH to apologize to me and to let me know he was miserable. I could see it in his eyes that he meant it. I now feel bad, that maybe he thinks I did not appreciate what he said. His biggest thing about this is that he does not think I could ever forgive. This happened with his parents and they hate each other to this day, that is the environment he grew up in. Like I said, I was shocked, I did not know how to react. I do want him to know that I appreciate his comments, but I am not for sure how I should convey that.

Should I:

(1) just send him a quick email letting him know that I appreciated what he said to me and that I was just kind of "taken back" at the time.

(2) Or take on a more personal approach and just call him and say the same thing.

I don't want to take the conversation any futher than that, I just want him to know how much that meant to me.

Advice??

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I do need some more advice though. It really took alot for my WH to apologize to me and to let me know he was
miserable. I could see it in his eyes that he meant it. I now feel bad, that maybe he thinks I did not appreciate what he
said. His biggest thing about this is that he does not think I could ever forgive. This happened with his parents and they
hate each other to this day, that is the environment he grew up in. Like I said, I was shocked, I did not know how to
react. I do want him to know that I appreciate his comments, but I am not for sure how I should convey that.

Should I:

(1) just send him a quick email letting him know that I appreciated what he said to me and that I was just kind of
"taken back" at the time.

(2) Or take on a more personal approach and just call him and say the same thing.

I don't want to take the conversation any futher than that, I just want him to know how much that meant to me. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My advice would be an e-mail and just thank him for being honest with you. I learned never try to educate a WS that is in the FOG, if you think he is coming out of the FOG you may want to let him know that in the readings that you are doing you have seen many M survive an A and even become stronger as a result, I would not reference your situation, be a generic as possible, and don't push for anything.

Take care,
Dave

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I will definitely be cautious. It is such a fine line to walk, how do you know when you can fully let the WS back in. How
do you know that they are back for good? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The first two time my WS came back, she was still in the fog, she was still "in love" with the OM but came back becasue "it was the right thing to do". She had never once accepted any responsbility for the A, she called it a relationship and would never refer to it as an A. She came back because she missed the kids, the house, the pool, the neighbors, etc, but my name was never once mentioned. The withdraws from OM became too great after a few weeks and she went running back.

The last, and hopefully final time she came back, she was out of the fog. She saw the OM for what he really was. She took full responsibility for the A and her choices, she aploized for what she had done and the pain that she caused everyone. I could tell from her actions that this time was the real thing.

Good luck,
Dave

WH did try to come back at one point last year (about this time), he was moving his stuff back and everything. When it came the final carload of clothes, he could not go through with it. to this day, that is all he has over there, he never took the other stuff back.

He had told me at one time that he wished that he would have stayed that time. Sometimes I think our WS's have gotten themselves into such a pit that they will never get out, so it just keeps getting deeper and deeper.

Anyway, I did call him and said "I wanted to let you know that I appreciated what you said to me about (the apology, the misery), I know it took alot of strength for you to do that, and I wanted to thank you."

He said thanks, and as I was beginning to end the conversation, he asked me I could make his Grandmother's cake for her next week. He then told me he would talk to me this weekend.

Anyway, a little update.

GC,
How did the weekend go, did you get to talk to him? Hope things went well.
Take care,
Dave

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by davepr:
<strong>GC,
How did the weekend go, did you get to talk to him? Hope things went well.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Here's a link to my weekend update:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=019346

I haven't heard from him since Saturday when he left. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />