just a question, but...

being the BH in my relationship, i have searched everywhere and in the deepest recesses of my mind for comfort, ie i will be happy no matter what, or, i will be alright because i was a good husband and a morally good man. one way i did this was by putting myself in OP's place. If the situation involved the same 3 people: me, my wife, and OM, but the marital relationships were different, would i allow myself to fall in love with this woman? i mean, i did already before we got married, so in this hypothetical situation, i'm sure i would fall in love with her if given the chance. hypothetically, she would be married to this OM, but if it were possible for us to begin the same relationship that led to us getting married in reality, should i not be allowed to pursue it?

i'm not justifying affairs, P or E. well, maybe in a way i am, even though i could rip the head off OM if given the chance. the ideas i post here really confuse me. my life is torn apart because of the A, but at the same time, i can't blame anyone for falling in love with my wife, in fact, i can't understand why anyone wouldn't.

as most of you can probably tell, i have loads of confusion in my mind. i'm sure you can relate. i think what i've decided on for now, is that...

i detest the OM wish him all sorts of bad things, but understand what he feels. i think in all honesty, i blame my W, and for that matter whichever spouse cheats, for allowing the relationship to ever begin and not ending it when it truly became a relationship rather than friendship.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by brentinsc:
[QB]just a question, but...

<<<< If the situation involved the same 3 people: me, my wife, and OM, but the marital relationships were different, would i allow myself to fall in love with this woman? i mean, i did already before we got married, so in this hypothetical situation, i'm sure i would fall in love with her if given the chance. hypothetically, she would be married to this OM, but if it were possible for us to begin the same relationship that led to us getting married in reality, should i not be allowed to pursue it? >>>>

Umm, no. And it wouldnt be the same relationship at all anyway. It would be a relationship based on lies, deceipt, sneaking around and the pain of other people. When my husband and I got together he couldn't wait to have me meet his friends & family and go everywhere together. When he got together with OW he wouldn't even admit to his childhood best friend that he was involved with her (even after he moved out of our house). He would have been horrified to run into someone he knew when out with OW. Not the same thing at all.

<<<i blame my W, and for that matter whichever spouse cheats, for allowing the relationship to ever begin and not ending it when it truly became a relationship rather than friendship.>>>

Absolutely. But it takes 2 to tango. I'm to the point where I dont' thing married peopel should have "friendships" any deeper than "acquaintance" with heterosexual members fo the opposite sex. Just asking for trouble.

your right about not having any opposite sex "friendships." anybody remember "when harry met sally?"

^^^^^

Ok, I saw this thread awhile ago and I kept silent because it totally freaked me out... I had been considering having my OM visit this site. I started a thread asking everyone to give reasons why the two of us even emailing each other is NOT ok. I planned on sending it to him, but then many of you discouraged me from doing it because then, I would not have the privacy of coming here to "talk" about things with you without him reading it. In that post, I remember I wrote that I was going to specifically spell out "other man" instead of "OM", etc., because my OM would not be familiar with the terms we use here. So, when he wrote in his post something to the effect that he would get used to the slang as he goes along, etc., well.... hmmmmmmmm.

Anyway, I just wanted to comment on a couple of things: Many of you asked him how he knows his married lady was so unhappy in her marriage, even in the beginning, etc. Maybe she is just feeding him a bunch of crap. I can tell you, it IS possible. In my case, I was a young girl who grew up with an abusive mother...anxious to get away from her, I moved in with my then-boyfriend, now husband. I got pregnant, it happens. I didn't realize that I was trying to just get away from my family at the time, but now I do. It's too late of course. I was just a young girl with no one to turn to.

My husband's family is not very nice to me. When I became pregnant, my father (the only person who has ever really been decent to me in my life) wanted me to move back home and have the baby and NOT get married. He liked my boyfriend, but did not like the way his family treated me or the fact that my boyfriend/husband LET them (and still does, BIG TIME.) My mom wanted me to try to make things work out for the sake of the baby. That is what I have tried to do all these years. (My dad died of cancer 1 1/2 months before the baby was born). My 2 children are now 14 and 11.

I have asked hubby for divorce a few times. He starts crying and begging me not to leave, lays guilt trips on me because he knows I am too nice of a person to cause problems for anyone. If I had the time, I would sit here and write down all of the times he has let me down and NOT been here for me....through the death of my mother, through all of my health problems, through problems with my kids, through other men bothering me, his parents verbally abusing me with him right there, you name it. And I have repeatedly tried and tried and tried to work on this marriage because I am a very sweet, caring, loving, CHRISTIAN woman who believes in marriage. That is what brought me to this website.

I developed feelings for another man many years ago. Been fighting them all along. There has never been ANY sex, never even a kiss. We have been emailing though, and I have been trying to stop doing even that because it only hurts me. That is why I was considering sending him to this site.

So folks, all I am saying is, I don't know "The Other Guy's" situation, (although it is really uncanny that he wrote around the same time I was considering having my OM visit here), but, there are some people here who are not the scum of the earth ok?

ws_woman; It is very sad to hear your story, and we all know people get themselves into terrible situations, many times without even seeing it.

The important point, though, is that if you are so unhappy, and your M does not work, your H is abusive, his family mistreats you, etc. Then you should get a divorce. And AFTER you get your divorce, THEN you can date anyone you want. Including you OM, if HE's not married himself.

What is wrong is not that you want to get away from a bad marriage, it is doing it WHILE you are still married.

Space........

You are so right on. I have always told my H that if he ever is too unhappy with me to please divorce me rather than cheat ever again. He did the opposite and I think that hurt far more than if he would have asked for divorce. At least then we would have had opportunity to work on our marriage BEFORE such terrible pain was inflicted by his EA. And his EA hurt me far more than other physical infidelities earlier in our marriage.

WS........Space is right, if you are that unhappy, and you have tried everything possible to make your marriage the best it can be, and it still doesnt work, just get a divorce. Then you can do what you want with any UNMARRIED man and hurt no-one.

By the way, I think the man in your life that you might want to invite here would be your H. Dont you think that might be a little more appropriate than the OM? Inviting OM here is certainly not going to help you build your marriage.

Replaced

To TOG

You are right where you need to be here on MB(MarriageBuilders).I find it so ironic how this women is looking through a microscopic lens at her Marriage. By the way she has you doing the same thing without you even knowing it.

Meaning pointing fingers, she forgot about what brought them together. She's only concentrating on what's not working and disregarding the rest.

So therefore she feels exempt without blame let you tell it. So by doing this she takes her imperfect self with her. Starting a new relationship creating the same problems she has with her husband.

Of course I don't expect you to see this because you have blinders on, you are in the honeymoon stage of the relationship you can't see the trees from the forest.

One thing for sure. If she left her husband only looking at his part he played and not her own character defects, she's doomed for failure. She will definitely attract even worse than what she left and that is you.

For starter you have no integrity. Issues means, (It's you) not the other person. We are only responsible for our part what we bring to the table.

See as human being we are so quick to take someone else's inventory and not our own. The Creator knew that. We where created like magnets, what we do not see or fail to see in our own lives, we will attract that very thing in our lives, because we live in such great denial. So we attract what we don't know about us into our existence and what we feel.

But I know I went over your head with that one but don't worry Life has a way of teaching us, one day you will learn this. You ever heard of The law of Reciprocity or You reap what you sow
Well oneday you will Marry and this will happened to you, it's has been all ready been ordain by you.

You created this situation for yourself so it's all ready manifested itself,as I'm speaking.
you will feel what her husband is feeling that's a guarantee you can ask my husband on that note.

Quess what I didn't have to do a thing but just sat back and watch the Universe take it's course.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Replaced:
<strong>Space........

You are so right on. I have always told my H that if he ever is too unhappy with me to please divorce me rather than cheat ever again. He did the opposite and I think that hurt far more than if he would have asked for divorce. At least then we would have had opportunity to work on our marriage BEFORE such terrible pain was inflicted by his EA. And his EA hurt me far more than other physical infidelities earlier in our marriage.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">R; there is no question that this is exactly correct. And that precisely is the part my WW doesn't seem to understand.
If she felt like our M was bad enough for her that she had to seek fulfillment elsewhere, she should divorced me. I would have been hurt, I would have tried to fix it, but that would have been more honest.
As it is, the most painful part of her EA is exactly that; that she stayed! I now know that at least for 2 years she has been lying and cheating, and feeling like it's OK to do that! Feeling like what she's done does not harm me or our R! THAT is more devastating than a divorce.

To WS & TOG

Question is TOG THE OM in your life?
Also WS... If you where having all these problem why not counseling from someone professional
like the Steve Harley who runs this site.

No one happiness should be contingent on someone else pain.

Ws I hear what you are saying but that's not a good excuse for me to have an EA ( emotional affair) My MIL (MOTHERINLAW) doesn't approve of me but this has nothing to do what I feel for my H
I will not tolerate her disrespecting me that's for sure.

If your husband has no back bone, where is your backbone to stand up for yourself. You allowed this disrespect to take place in your life in the begining.

Now you want to blame him for not standing up for
you. If you don't love you who else will.
You are giving out signal I don't love me so it's ok to mistreat me.

That is your ISSUES... means (It's you) Change you and everything around will change including your Marriage. What you run from you run right into again because you never fixed you.

You thought the person was the problem. So by running you think you have fixed your problem but you forgot all about you. Where ever you go you take you with you. Low selfesteem not loving self not standing up for self and all

<small>[ August 18, 2002, 05:06 AM: Message edited by: MALC ]</small>

Has ANYONE noticed that TOG is nowhere to be found?? He obviously came here for "support" with his affair, and since that is not gonna happen, I think he finally realized that MB is for saving M's, not giving the OP advice on how to STEAL a MW!!!

Why not let this thread just fade away???

He is wrong, and even if he reads this, do you think he will care?? He is set on his (selfish) mission, and when he did not get the "support" he was seeking from all us BS's, he just decided to walk away from here!

Don't waste any more of your precious time and energy on someone who has no concern for the pain they are helping to create!!!

just my opinion.

-mcnyh

Hey WSwoman...I'm sorry I haven't emailed lately...got busy and I kind of trailed off. I'm sorry!!!!

I know you take much of the hard truths that people point out here personally or as insults. They aren't...it's just the plain truth and hearing it hurts. No one is really dogging TOG...just pointing out the obvious errors in his thinking.

I know you're very disappointed in your hubby and full of resentment...I was there at one point, I remember how "right" I was and all the facts I had to prove it. But what the other posters responded is right. You're angry because hubby failed you...but you're also angry because you failed yourself. Hubby never did this or that or the other thing...but then you said yourself you back down and "play nice" every time push comes to shove too. Those ARE YOUR issues. Being angry with hubby...or even LEAVING hubby, won't fix those issues. You need to face the pain, face the hurt, and FACE yourself. Get a counselor...it's the best thing you could do for yourself and probably your marriage!

I'm going to email you...I hope to hear from you soon!!!

I give up. I will never write a thing here again. I have spent YEARS....DO YOU HEAR ME, YEARS fighting the feelings I have for this man because they are wrong. What I wrote yesterday, was exactly that... I was trying to explain that human emotions do come into play, whether you all like it or not. I am trying to control my human emotions and have been for years.

I will not come back here and be told how selfish I am, nor how little of a backbone I have to not stand up to my MIL. You have absolutely NO idea what I have or have not been through with that woman. I have literally had to speak to a lawyer (Yes, me personally, not my husband) on how to handle her and visitation of our son. All while my husband just sat there doing nothing.....I have done so much for him and let so much go. As I have stated in the past, it is just too hard to explain it all in these little posts. I have the book from this website...I have shown it to my husband, along with many other marriage books..I have asked him to try counseling. He DOES NOT THINK THERE IS A PROBLEM IN OUR MARRIAGE. He thinks everything is fine. He is selfish and stubborn and his mother has convinced him that he is way too good for me and that I am lucky to have him, so he doesn't need to lift a finger to do more for me.

Regardless, I give up. Will not be here again. I thought this was to help people like me to avoid going down the path of destruction, and encourage. I don't need this crap, thanks anyway.

Oh and by the way, I do not know if the other guy is my OM. I really don't see how he could be....he would have to somehow be able to read my emails to know that I come here. The Other Guy's story just sounded incredibly similar to ours, that's all.

(((WS)))

No one gave you "crap". Just their personal opinions.

Do not run away. Please.

Pepperband

<small>[ August 18, 2002, 01:11 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

wswoman...nobody...NOBODY was mocking you or putting you down. This is just more evidence of your self esteem problem girl!! You CAN'T run from this for the rest of your life! At some point...you will have to face your issues. You can leave your husband or stay and be resentful...no matter WHAT you do, you still have to live with you. I know you've struggled with your MIL...hey, I have too. I've been through MANY of the issues you have been and it wasn't so long ago I sounded just like you do. I'm telling you...my life and our marriage are WAY different, and the biggest changes were within me, not anything anyone else did or said.

WS;
Nobody is giving you "C--p", just pointing out what you yourself have confirmed; what you have been doing has not worked, has it? Don't you think it's time to do something different? Like taking care of YOU?

WS Woman
I could too tell of the nightmare stories from my in-laws. FIL was a weak man who was too afraid to get her to repeat how high she wanted him to jump. My H was/ia a momma's boy in the clinical sense. He decided when and how he would live his life and decided while we were on the honeymoon that our marriage would be her pet project to destroy. She got him to lie about his age, shave under his arms, had him tap dance on a local television show, wouldn't let him drive until he was 18 or have friends, taught him that sex was sin...and worse of all she taught him to lie.

Our marriage has been a nightmare but as you, I am a Christian and knew there was/is a reason for me to be here. I endured 19 years of his torture. I am in the same miserable marriage that he is yet I've had no affair. I've had just as many unmet needs as he.

Until last year, he believed I was the problem until a counselor told him otherwise. He believed every lie from that woman's mouth. I thought when she died that things would greatly improve...now I'm left with the rotating emotions he has toward her-anger/regret/extreme loyalty. My H too won't work on the relationship-that is until I get ready to leave. He is too important to himself to be bothered...and besides, I'm less than perfect.

Now my h has developed into a terrible alcoholic. I can't take it anymore and neither can my daughter-He refers to her as "your daughter" when he's drunk. She's a good student, beautiful girl, leader at school and church, talented, a good athlete and respected by adults and teens as well...all the while living with the abuse of an alcoholic.

As a Christian you know in your heart that this relationship with this man is wrong. You can get mad at others when you feel that they don't understand. Noone can truly understand anyone else's life unless they are a great part of it. I think that anger may come from your guilt toes being stepped upon.

As bad as our marriage is/was, my h had no right to have an affair...noone does. To justify until the cows come home still won't change that fact.

Nowhere in God's word does He promise us happiness in this world...quite the contrary, He
promises that we'll have heartache. He just wants us to lean on Him through those times-not another man.

God's also very clear on when it is permissible to divorce and we're expected to work on our relationships until those situations arise. How can we work on our marriage when our hearts are elsewhere?

I pray that instead of getting mad when you are confronted with the truth that you'll search your heart for the right answer...it's there.

Hi WS
No one here is bashing you, nor do we want you to stop posting. This about loving you to life not to death... these are your words..... All while my husband just sat there doing nothing.....I have done so much for him and let so much go please read Plan A & B http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html also read http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8100_article.html

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3000_intro.html

No one is coming down hard on you. It just seems you are trying to justify cheating. The very thing that hurts us all that's why we are here.

Look my husband is a very gullable man to the point, I never seen anything like it. He allowed a women he only knew for three weeks to trap him with a OC. I feel in my heart this is not his child.The lies my husband has told doesn't add up. I did my my investigation only to find he's lying.

But through all of this, I never cheated yes I get lonely, yes I desire to be with someone but I don't act on those feelings.

Something inside of my spirit won't allow me to inspite of what I'm feeling.

My MIL played a big part in our separation the other part was my H and I we allowed it.

I take full responsibilty for my part and only my part. You see if I put so much energy on him I won't be able to see my flaws.

Not excusing my H but right now the focus is on me. We point out to each other our flaws.

Now you want to run remember where ever you go you take you and your problem with you.

It seems to me you was looking for someone to Cosign your EA thats just my opinion, but you won't get that here I don't believe.

I hope you stay and get some counseling because this is not just about your H issues. You brought your baggage into the Marriage also you just won't own up to it. It seems to me it's easier and less painful to point fingers in your H direction instead of your own.

Example I have abandonment issue stemming from childhood. I didn't understand why it was hard for me to let people go clinging. I had to look where this started from childhood. Then I began to understand why it's hard for me to let go of people. Just get honest with yourself none of us are perfect.

<small>[ October 01, 2002, 05:52 AM: Message edited by: MALC ]</small>

ws_woman,

I’m sorry that you have taken the things people have said to you are attacks. They are not. Have you ever had the experience where you have been through something? Then a friend of yours goes through something similar. You share what you have learned with her but she just gets upset because you are not coddling her? Well that’s what’s going on here. I’ve been here a while and know these people. They usually say it exactly as they see it. Not to hurt but to help. The last thing you need in this world right now is someone who just tells you that they agree with you. Sometimes it's just plain hard to hear the truth.

Your story is not unique. That is not bad… that’s good. It means that there are things that people can help you with. People and share what they have learned and perhaps you can gleam something from their insight.

We all know how human emotions work. Many of us here have experienced such feelings. The way to handle them in a marriage is to have no contact with him. The feelings will go with time. Sometimes it’s a very long time – even years. But by having no contact with him you will not have to fight as hard and the feelings will not interfere with your life.

Many people here have or have had spouses that sound just like your husband. He’s not very unique either. He sounds a lot like my previous husband. You choose to have a relationship with him and to marry him. The circumstances are of little consequence. A woman can marry a man they are madly in love with and it turns out like yours. I know this from my own experience. Those were your choices. You knew who his mother was before you married him. But you choose his family. I’m not saying that ‘you made your bed now sleep in it’. What I’m saying is that you are where you are today because that is where you put yourself. You have as much power to get yourself out of this as you did to get yourself into it.

I’ve also had terrible mother-in-law issues. It was an issue in court. Even went to a psychiatrist to keep her away from my son. She is just plain evil and mean. The fact is that I stood up to her, protected my son and taught him how to deal with her.

There is nothing sweet, loving, caring for Christian about carrying on (even emotionally) behind your husband’s back, to talk about him behind his back, to stay with him just because you are too weak to deal with your problems. I view it as you are helping your H be the worst person he can be by not standing up to him and his mother.

The MB material is very good. I live and swear by it. But as you have seen it can be very hard to do when only one spouse recognizes the problem. I suggest that you augment your Plan A and MB reading material with the material on Divorce Busting. The premise of DB is that one spouse can totally change their marriage by changing their own outlook on life and their own behavior. So one spouse can force improvement in a marriage.

You are not a victim. You are where you are right now because of your own choices, not because of the way others treat you. So take your power back, build your self-esteem and work on YOU. If your H is lucky, at some point he will wake up and join you on this venture. If not, then you will be better equipped to move on in life. And stop all contact with the OM. This relationship will only serve to cripple your path to being the best person you can be.