I was wondering how many of the BETRAYED were no longer in love with their BETRAYING spouse???<P>My h and I seem to be playing reverse roles. I'm the one pulling away, and he being the betrayer doesn't seem to be exhibiting any of the symptoms many betrayers do.<P>I on the other hand feel like the one capable of walking away from all of this. It's like I'm the one not in love with him anymore.<P>Anyone else feel this way???

I think that is a normal reaction to being betrayed and hurt. Your trust is not there. That doesn't mean that your love cannot return. Many here on this forum are living proof that love can be restored after infidelity and even say that their marriages are better than they ever thought possible and stronger too. Not everyone has the will to follow that path, though. My H gave up on our marriage after I confessed. The divorce was final in May. I hadn't talked to him in months, till last night. He called and apologized. Said he wished he was a bigger person and could have gotten through it. Said that there is a part of him that will always love me, and wants me to stay in touch with him. This is from the man who was dead set to divorce me, even though I many,many times begged, pleaded and cried for him not to do so. So, you should very, very carefully consider your decision. I understand that the initial reaction is one of disgust and anger. Those feelings will wear away eventually, either with your spouse or without them. Starting over with someone new is no guarantee of not getting hurt in the future. You will have lost however many years you've invested in your current relationship. Just something to consider.

TheStudent,<P>Thank you for your sensible reply. Sometimes you get lost in too many thoughts that just aren't productive, and underneath it all I do love him.<P>The other night I wrote him a letter full of hate for him, and taped it to the door for him to read when he got home from work. Later, before he got home, I went down and took it off, but it helped me understand just what bothered me.<P>I'm sad to hear about you and your husband. I don't mean to seem like a dreamer, but is there any chance that there could be a future for the two of you???<P>Dragonfly<p>[This message has been edited by Dragonfly (edited August 12, 1999).]

dragonfly, i am where you are right now. i just keep thinking, "why bother"?<BR>We are still dealing with HUGE trust issues, though (he will not show me where he is living, and for months he has been that way, but he lived with OW-how am i supposed to believe he isn't now?). <BR>I'm not sure if i would be so indifferent to him if he were actually at home, but for now, i am in total self-protection mode. I'm sick of being angry, sick of being hurt, sick of broken promises and dashed expectations...<BR>well, you know the feelings. <BR>im proud of you for not letting him read that angry letter you wrote. I've done a lot of that in the past, and i really regret it.<BR>my fingers are crossed for you.

Love was Blind,<P>Thank you so much for responding. It helps to know others feel the same way!<P>My h is home, and willing to make every possible concession to keep us together, so I shouldn't really complain.<P>He calls to tell/ask me if it's ok for him to stay late, and he knows that the other guys think he's "whipped", but that's what he's willing to do.<P>The letter wouldn't have done anything but cause pain, and writting it helped me work thru those things, some of them I didn't even mean. So, better left unsaid!!<P>As for you, why won't yr h let you know where he is?? Sounds very odd??? I understand your pain tho'. Different circumstances but a universal pain.<P>Instead of pulling into yourself, make yourself stronger by taking good care of yourself, and doing things that make you happy. As Ann Landers always asks, "am I better off with or without him??".<P>So far I'm better off with him!!<P>Dragonfly

Going thru the same thing. I was 99% over her and couldn't even stand the sight of her. I'll always love her, I just am very angry about the affair and the way she treated me. Had the divorce going and was moving on at a fast pace. Then she decides she wants to stay. The only reason I stayed was the kids. I am still with her taking it day by day. I still have times where I just want to walk away 8 months later. I'm not sure if that feeling will ever fully go away.<P>Student, glad to see that there is a thaw in your X's behaviour. Hoping this will be the long road back..... <p>[This message has been edited by fighter (edited August 12, 1999).]

Hi Dragonfly,<P>I don't know how long it's been for you, since discovery, but it's been a little over 6 months for me. I am still stuck where you are. It's such a contradiction, but there are days where things between us are better than ever. I definitely feel closer to him, and vice versa, but I'm still so damn bitter about it all. I have good days, when, for whatever reason, I just want to be around him all day. Then there are the days that I could easily walk away. <P>I posted on here quite a bit, a while ago. And the one thing I never mentioned was that I had moved out of my house. After 3 months, the disgust wore me down, and I could no longer stand to look at him in the face. I was only living down the street at my mother's house, and it was like I hadn't left. But, I had somewhere to sleep at night, and nights are when I would go pretty ballistic on him. I stayed for almost 3 months, and it was definitely a good idea. We recently went to Retrouvaille, and that helped a little. I moved home the next weekend. Speaking of Retrouvaille, one of the counselors asked us why we were there, cause he had never seen two people so in love. And that it was very apparent we had something very special and he hoped we realized it. He called us "The newlywed's" the whole weekend. Go figure. Well, it was one of our good spurts. Had he seen us on our bad days, he would have been running for cover. Anyhow, we are the best of friends, and that makes it hard for me to walk away. We're the kind of couple that when you see us out, we're so busy talking, laughing, holding hands, etc., that people must believe we're truly newlyweds. We don't butt heads on anything. It's hard to find someone who is so close to yourself, that it makes me fight extra hard to keep this marriage together, and to learn to love him again. Or shall I say, love him as I should have loved him all along, but didn't. As our therapist says, "Wherever you go, there you are." I love that saying. You can't expect to run away from your problems and have them solved. Often times, they just follow. Whether you think you're leaving the actual problem or not. <P>My husband is such a one of a kind, that I couldn't imagine him not being there with me forever. And it has nothing to do with my love, or lack of. You have to evaluate what kind of person your H is, and it surely seems that he's willing to put forth total effort in restoring your love and trust. If he's the kind of man that you admire or desire, then please stick it out. I know it's hard to separate yourself from the situation, and the anger, to be able to get an objective view of him as a person, rather than as the betrayer. But, you must truly decide if it's worth the long struggle of trying to feel for him what you should. It's going to be a very long process. That love may elude you, but you need to give it everything you've got. Nothing less will do. To reiterate what I've told others here in the past, you sometimes have to act toward your partner as though you feel love for them. Then the love will follow. I recently read here that someone had written that exact quote, it escapes me, verbatim, for the moment. But, it definitely works in my situation.<P>Also, my husband is like yours. He's very remorseful and will do ANYTHING to keep this marriage together. Sometimes I wonder if he wasn't showing such an interest, that maybe it would be easier to forgive. It sounds sick, but you can see that a lot of the betrayed here fight harder when they have to win back their betrayer spouse. It's that old adage, of wanting what you can't have. Maybe we feel like this about our H's because they are so willing. Not a popular opinion, but definitely food for thought. <P>Sorry for the length. I have the habit of rambling. If you have any questions, feel free to email me. distrusting1@hotmail.com <P>------------------<BR>The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or even touched. They must be felt with the heart.<BR>Helen Keller<p>[This message has been edited by Distrusting (edited August 12, 1999).]

Hi Dragonfly,<P>I have actually told Tony that I no longer love him. He he tells me he loves my my one word reply is yup.<P>He has a deadline and it is slipping through his fingers fast. I have taken all I can take from him. <P>In case you do not know my story we have been together since 97. In fact right about now two years ago he was just getting ready to break up with one of his OW. He has had many in real life and on-line. I found out in October/November about Peaches (her nick). Then in Feb of 98 I found out about anouther real life OW. During this time he threatened to kick me out on the streets and or leave. I was in a strange state with no friends no money of my own and no way to protect myself.<P>We started therapy. We ended up moving out of Mass to NH. Actually that summer besides some bad flash backs was nice. I actually started to trust him. Then durring the winter he was back on-line all the time. I finally was able to get him to stop AOL and get a local provider. My reason was he used AOL to find women local to have sex with. <P>I found out in March/April of this year that he was back to having cyber and phone sex with women that he met on the internet. We went to therapy for a bit but she was of no use. <P>Since then if I bring up the affairs and how he promised to find a therapist, read SSA and get AIDS test...he informs me all the time that I have mental problems. After yet anouther fight last night I just told him point blank that I do not love him anymore and since he knows his butt is so close to the curb to stop kissing my butt till he can be honest, forthright and more important keep his promise, try to regain trust and work on finding out why he cheats.<P>He called work a million times to day to keep us together but I am ready for plan b. So the more I pull away the more he is coming to the relization that he loves and needs me in his life. Not sure what is going to happen. He has till August 31 to show some major improvement.<P>I am sorry if I have not assisted you. I am still very angry and bitter over all the pain he has caused me. You see I was engaged to be married before and he cheated on me. So when Tony and I got together I asked him one thing. Not to cheat on me. I even took the time out to explain how much it hurts. He did not listen nor did he care.

pahakissa-i had the same discussion with my H about how cheating was the one unacceptable thing-in fact, he brought it up, because it had happened to him before, and had been so painful. funny how fast they forget....<BR>dragonfly-i told H i needed to see where he's living, and he told me that that was the one thing i really needed to trust him on. let me tell you the anger THAT engendered...no, i'll spare you. it's nothing new . well, he tells me his "lease" is up on sunday, so i wonder what will happen then?<BR>he sent me flowers today, and all i could think was "why?". oh well, they came in a nice vase....<P>------------------<BR>for better or for worse, in sickness and in health, for richer or for poorer, till death do us part.<P><BR>

I know exactly where you are comming from here. I spent the best part of a year battling to win back my W and feeling so in love with her but, since I discovered the extent of her betrayal several weeks ago, it is like the roles are reversed. My loving feelings have receded and I have been very unhappy. So unhappy that last night we discussed seperation. I suppose I am looking for my W to start 'making it up' to me for what has happened and to show me she loves me enough now to make our marriage worth saving. At the same time she is waiting for me to stop feeling sorry for myself and show her some love and affection.<BR>The result is a stalemate and things have got very bad with neither side wanting to make the next move.....until last night when we both realised how close to the edge we are.<BR>I have realised I needed some help coping with my negative feelings and have been to the Dr today who prescribed anti depressants.<BR>Hopefully I will start to feel more positive in the days to come and be able to make decisions about the future with a clear head instead of a miserable, self pitying head.<BR>

I have also had ambivalant feeling towards my husband through all of this. It has been two years since the first discovery..and a few "discoveries" since, all involving the same woman. I have done all I feel I can do to try to save my marriage, but he feels compelled to continue to persue her, dispite her going back to her husband. Each time I would find out he had been communicating with her again, I felt unloved, and a little part of my love for him died. I am now at the point that I am not sure I have any true loving feelings left for him. <P>------------------<BR>Susan

I have come to understand more about the "withdrawal" that occurs after the affair, but the continuance after discovery, to me, is almost worse than pre-discovery. Someone also said that one of the experts (not sure if it was Dr. Harley) suggested that continuing the affair after the spouse knows significantly affects the love that the betrayed spouse has for the betrayer. I know this is true in my case. He continued after both discoveries. I can recall asking over and over, why won't you stop?...this is killing me...why continue if you say you still want to be married to me? He still does not understand how deeply this has affected me. Yet, he never claimed to love them nor did he want to divorce.

So glad to find you all. I am new, could not even get past the word"infdelity" a few months ago. I must be getting better. It makes me sick to think I have to be a part of this group of people. Anyone else??? I fought hard to getH home and away from her, I was pregnant with our first. My hopes were certainly detroyed (pure terror) while pregnant. he came back remorseful (alittle) I am working on him. Makinghim read Dr. H and going to counel. But, want to divorce just to gain some respect and make him chase me all over again. Perhaps, teach him a lesson or two, now that he is so willing to do anything to make it work. Yeah, had his cake and ate it too. Now he wants to move on with me. Happy little family with new baby. I feel like leaving him everyday. I talk of reconciliation and divorce too. I feel he needs to show me he really has respect for marriage vows and we could re-marry when we are both ready.<P>------------------<BR><P>

Love,<P>yes it is amazing how fast they forget anything when they are in selfish mode. Well I have decided to get into self protection mode. It sounds cold blooded but now Tony can deal. I have tried for two years and nothing.

I feel this way.....sometimes.....and other times I don't think I can live without him.<P>For me it's more questioning HIS ability to love me, or IF he's in love with me.<P>I'm 100% sure that I LOVE him, am In Love with him.......but I'm not so sure of his love for me! And this is where my problems lie......<P>Love is a choice......I chose to love him. But in the reverse, Love being a choice, has he chosen to love me? And I'm not sure how to go about believing he loves me.....<P>I used to believe he loved me, would proctect me, etc,etc...and found that even if he loved (loves) me that he didn't (doesn't) protect me.<P>I know I'm rambling.....<BR>Hang in there everybody!

Fighter - I guess if I let myself I could be 99% over him too, but (and I hate saying this right now) he's a good man even tho' he had the affair. I pray for both you and me that the pain subsides so we can begin to live again.<P>Distrusting - It's only been 2 mths since I discovered, but we have had problems with the internet/cyber sex for over three years (we've been married five).<P>What is Retrouvaille??<P>My h and I sound just like you - "newlywed's". Holding hands, laughing, playing no matter where we were, that's what makes this all so hard, and now he's so scared he lost me (and he's so close to being right)!<P>Pahakissa - I've done what you've done when he says he loves me. I tell him, "ya know, you've always told me you love me, and look what has happened. What makes your love for me any different now, and how do I believe in that love??" He hates when I do that that, and lately it's been getting more and more often.<P>Your problems sound a lot like mine, although he swears it was only one OW that he did anything with??? Who knows, the truth has a way of coming out anyway!<P>I'm starting to believe that the Internet is a very real evil. No scratch that, I BELIEVE that it is a very real evil!<P>I hope your deadline to him comes, and he's made some changes. If not, plan b may be the way to go. Sometimes we enable them to be the way they are (just like an alcoholic)!! I'll keep you in my thoughts and prays!<P>love WAS blind - I feel for you. I couldn't trust him on this if I knew I couldn't trust him on anything else. I wonder why he needs you to trust him on this? Sometimes I think they get themselves in so deep, they don't know how to handle the situation. Just like a little kid!! <P>The flowers are a good sign!!! I hope that by Sunday your life is changing for the better...<P>Sue, I'm so sorry that he has hurt you time and again. Your a better person than me, because I've already told him that if I find out anything, and I mean anything else has happened, that I'll be gone in the "flash of an eye", and you know what?? I mean it, and he knows it. It sounds like he is "addicted" to this life, I only hope you can talk some sense into him.<P>Channel#5 - It's funny but men seem to cheat a lot once their wives are pregnant. I think that's when most of our problems started. I use to tease my h that he never made it past the age of 14, and now I KNOW that I'm right. Think about what is best for you and the baby, and whether or not you are better with or without him. Take into account whether or not he is making a real effort to change too. I have a 2 1/2 old son, who we both adore. It would be very hard to break this family up with out trying first, although at times I could just kick his a** out of here!!! Take your time, and don't do anything to soon. And yes we all hate having to be here, but luckily we have each other!!!<P>Pahakissa - When you say self protection, do you mean drawing away from him???

OnceHappy, I think the hardest part is not knowing the mind and soul of someone you thought you knew. It's pure torture!!!

hmmm, I'm not sure what I feel right now, kind of numb I think. I know in my heart I love my h BUT...... right now I find myself pulling away from him emotionally, I hate feeling this way, but there it is. There has been very little talking for the last couple of weeks, and no sex, I wish these feelings would just go away, it's been 11 months since the last affair, I don't know what will happen next, Part of the problem may be that I'm always afraid of him doing me again. <P>------------------<BR>Just call me - Deb<BR>------------------------<BR>The only day I can do anything about is today, yesterday is gone, tomorrow is not yet mine.<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I'm starting to believe that the Internet is a very real evil. No scratch that, I BELIEVE that it is a very real evil!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Uh...excuse me, but where do you think you're getting this support, dear? The corner drugstore?<P>Seriously, though, this is a very dangerous statement. To say that the Internet is evil because some people use it to have affairs is like saying that a particular movie is evil because it drove a few people to do something stupid or malevolent.<P>Some people can't handle television...or movies...or alcohol...or gambling...or even trading in the stock market. That doesn't make any of these things evil.<P>It's up to PEOPLE to control themselves. Yes, a lot of people have internet affairs. That's not the Internet's fault. <P>I have a fairly large Internet presence, between my fan fiction and my movie reviews. I get "fan mail" all the time, some of it from men, and sometimes they're clearly "looking". I've had plenty of opportunity to have Internet affairs, and all you have to do to avoid them is say, "Sorry, I'm married and not interested." That usually does it. I have made many, many friends that I know only through E-mail -- all of them women. I have a husband who goes to sleep at 9 PM, and since he's so needy, I rarely see my friends anymore...having these women helps the loneliness a lot. I suppose I could be susceptible to an Internet affair, but I don't do it. I also don't participate in Internet chat. I could...anyone can. I'm not interested, and why play with fire?<P>If I can just stay away from potentially dangerous places, why can't other adults? Blaming the Internet is avoiding the real issue: SELF-CONTROL.<P>

Deb, you and me both. When I first found out I couldn't have sex with him enough. The counselor said it was because I was trying to fix everything, and make things better. Who knows, but now I'm numb too!<P>Dazed and Confused - "The internet is evil" may seem like a dangerous thought, as I know overall it's the person who is using it who either has or lacks self-control.<P>Also, I agree that the person on the whole is responsible for his/her own actions. However, the internet has opened an avenue to things you wouldn't usually be subjected to on a daily basis and would be able to avoid better.<P>I realize that I have the help of all of you thru this tool, but I'm like you, and don't feel drawn to the "evils" out there.<P>At one time, I was from the same school of thought as you on the internet, movies, t.v., and such; however I have begun to feel that there is definitely a connection between the deterioration of society and the mass market of these tools in a way that is not healthy. Movie makers for instance don't give a squat about what is right and proper to put out for viewing, money talks.<P>We could get into a long discussion about "freedom of speech", etc., etc., but no I do believe that the internet is a tool for evil.<P>Sorry to sound so much like chicken-little, but you know what, my 67 year-old Mother told me from the beginning that I shouldn't have the internet in my house. That it was no good. Now we can argue that he would have cheated anyway, and he very possibly may have, but with the Internet he has a means to get started very innocently at first. It progressed way out of control before I could even know, and then it was too late.<P>If it were a real-life romance I would have been able to notice him coming and going late, etc. But no, I had to come across some very gross pictures to find out. Plus, with him being an "addict" it gave him a sweet supply of his drug.<P>So I'm sorry, I still think in the wrong hands it can be used by evil to guide you in the wrong direction!