I am not sure if I am posting in the right place here. I am the OW, but also married. My husband has been working away for 2 years, and foolishly I got involved with a married man with 4 children. Although this is over, I still feel very deeply for him and this confuses how I feel about my husband and whether I can lie to him anymore by being with him when I can't have my first choice. There is no question that the A is over, but how do I move forward with my husband? His contract is finishing and he comes home next week on Tuesday. Although I love him, surely not enough to have done this terrible thing that has torn him apart.

Do not judge me too harshly for the A - I feel bad enough about that as it is, but I don't know if my future is with my H or not.

Can anyone help

Lisa,
you are definately in the right spot. No one will judge you. We all make mistakes, you are only human. There is another poster by the name neverthought. She has had some great responses and she is the OW and WS. Read all you can on this site. Post questions, no matter how trivial you might think they are. Don't be afraid to ask questions.
Yes, you had an affair and that was wrong but how wonderful that you came here wanting to heal and help your marriage.
Keep your eye on that worthy goal.
Does your husbadn know about A?
Have you broken off entirely with OM?
These are important steps.
Have you considered marriage counseling or individual counseling for yourself?
Let us all know how we can help.
Good luck.
Hugs to you!
Layli

Layli

Thanks for this.

Yes my H knows. He found out in the most awful way - he read e-mail correspondence between myself and friends discussing fairly intimate details. In a moment of anger and upset he contacted the OM's wife, so yes it is definitely over there. They are working things out.

I have just started individual counselling, but feel so down on myself that I do not know if I can give to my H. He really wants us to work things out, but I am so unsure of who I am and why I did this awful thing that I am finding it incredibly hard to respond. I spend most days crying for the hurt and pain I have caused and for losing someone I loved. This now everyday virtually for more than a month.

In between, I do not want to hurt my husband anymore by making the wrong decision - if I stay with him and he comes back here and then it still doesn't work out, surely that's worse?

I worry if my A was about testing my marriage or whether it was about trying to bring it to an end. Two years by yourself with visits/trips every 2 to 3 weeks for a weekend is a long time apart.....

So very very confused and unhappy. I don't know myself anymore. The person I thought I was would not have done this awful thing and caused such devastation on so many lives. That is just someone I do not know or want to know, but I have to try and find out why.

<small>[ August 02, 2002, 05:47 AM: Message edited by: 231 ]</small>

the fact that you were apart is surely one of the main reasons why the A happened. you were unhappy with this - pure and simple. therefore, I dont think the A was to end the marriage, but rather to end that particular situation.

the fact that you feel guilty is surely painful for you, but also a necessary and good start for the healing process. I think your husband is a great chap that he tries to work it out.

good luck

N (from London too)

He is a great chap Nick. That's what makes it even worse that I can have had so little thought or regard for his feelings and what this has done to him.

I have always been independent, and being apart for 2 years has only encouraged this independence. I started new hobbies by myself and grew my friendship base to keep busy when he was not here. However, I still question how I could have done this. If I do not find the answers, I do not know how I can piece my marriage back together. The A has made me question my whole being and existence - it is simply not enough for me to say that I had opportunity, that I was lonely, that my emotional needs weren't being met. I could have just told my H - come back home I'm about to do something crazy. But I didn't, instead I went down the path of destruction.

I still feel destructive too. Am angry with the OM, and not feeling I can get any closure - why? He has made it clear that he is trying again with his W, so why can't I just move on?

I just go round and round in circles - washing machine syndrome.

Why can't I just do the right thing now and say I'll give it a go with H - put my heart and soul in to it - can I just be not ready for it yet?

H returns on Tuesday and looks like he will be moving out soon after - would have been difficult enough to come back without all this added disaster. Feel sad about that, but just can't have him back in my space yet....

Help anyone please!!!!!

You write that you question your life, existence because of the choice you have made (A instead of asking H to come back). Did you choose to go that way because you couldnt talk with your H about these issues? It was so in my case. In hindsight, we're always much smarter aren't we. To move forward, one thing for you both to learn is to communicate emotions & these thoughts - did you think about visiting a marriage councillor? I know a v. good guy in Clapham, I'll have you his details if you want.
I reckon that being apart now is the wrong thing for you to do. you were apart from each other long enough. in contrary - you should be closer. why not jointly go away somewhere, to talk & talk & share all these resentments, emotions?

Funnily enough,we have never had a problem communicating, only perhaps in the last six months, when all I did was lie and cheat. I tried to tell him, but not hard enough.

I am seeing a counsellor locally who I think will help. H is definite about moving out. I just don't know how it will work with him having been away anyway. That would have been hard enough, let alone dealing with our emotions - his anger, betrayal, etc. and my head all over the place.

Don't know what to do for the best.....

Lisa,

Do yourself a huge favor. Read the material on this site not just the forum part and order or buy if they are available in the UK (I think they are) two books. Surviving an Affair and His Needs Her Needs both by Harley.

I think in the first book you will start to see the reasons for what you have done. You will also see a plan for restoring your marriage.

When you read this site, please read carefully the section on Withdrawal. That is the phase you are in right now. Your H will need to understand this as well. It will last anywhere from a month to roughly 6 months. What is it like? Just what you are feeling now. Missing the OM, not sure about yourself, guilt, and fear that you are making the wrong choice by working on the marriage to H.

I believe if you stick around here and do this reading that eventually you will realize that no matter what eventually happens you should and will need to try to rebuild your marriage. It will take awhile, longer than it took to tear it down, but if your H is willing to endure the pain of it give it an honest try.

So educate yourself, give yourself and H plenty of time, and most of all exercise patience both with yourself and your H.

God Bless,

JL

I have read quite a lot on this site - I recognise the "withdrawal" phase, but because of our situation, I don't see it as quite as straight forward. My H and I don't live together and haven't for 2 years!

So much else going on, but I am not ready to share on this board. Also, I know it sounds strange, but us folks in the UK are different from you in the US and some of the advice/info is hard to digest - do you understand JL?

I take it all on board, and read as much as I can, but still feel rubbish and worthless - my poor poor H - do I just feel sorry for him..... Enough here now, time for bed. Not sleeping at all well, so exhausted by everything, and so very ashamed of my actions, but still missing OM.

Funny also, that I described myself as "OW, but also married". Didn't describe myself as WW and OW. You see, one of the problems is that I have felt "psuedo single" since my H has been away. Can I get back the feeling of being married?

Thank you for the post - I keep reading it all.

Hi Lisa,

I understand that the phrasing of certain concepts may be different between here and the UK, BUT the concepts hold water just about anywhere. I have managed to live in quite a few parts of the world and travel and work with people from many parts of the world. My observation is that when it all gets sorted out, people pretty much want the same things no matter who they are or where they live. That is why institutions such as marriage exist all over the world.

I suspect that it will take an adjustment having your H at home. It would without the affair. I know when I am gone on a lengthy trip it takes awhile for my family to readjust to me being there. My W is in fact pretty independent because I do work long hours and travel a fair amount. That can sometimes be a problem in and of itself.

I guess my question to you is: do you have a plan? Do you have some idea how you would like all of this to work out? Do you want to save the marriage? These are things that YOU need to decide and if you can do it before your H returns home it would be very beneficial. I will tell you that running and hiding won't help you much.

Oh, one last thing, if the wording of the Harley approach bothers you, you know the Love bank, Love busters, needs, etc. I think there are alternative ways to express these things which won't sound so...American perhaps. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> It really is based on some very sound observations about people. One of the most important is to give this lots of TIME and have PATIENCE with your H and yourself. The saying "time heals all wounds", maybe a little general but it is very accurate.

Look forward to hearing from you.

JL

No plan JL, not really. I think I am frightened to be alone properly - yes I have been alone in physical space, but for the last six months not only have I had my H, but the OM to deal with my needs. I have to say I am just not sure about whether or not I can stay married. How can I stay married when I have such strong feelings still for someone else? I know these will fade in time, but I ache and miss him. I haven't missed my H like this in all the time he's been away! Even before the A started. And why did I start the A with the imminent arrival back of my H? It's all so crazy, and I just don't know what to do. Of course I don't just want to throw away 12 years with my H, but am I being fair to him, let alone me? If he were to move back here on Tuesday, I couldn't honestly say that I whole heartedly want to make a go of my marriage.

It would be difficult to show my H some of these things too. He would not like me posting on this website and reading what I have written. He is a very private person, and he just wouldn't like this, so not sure how to deal with that either.

Anyway, I appreciate your help, and I know the wording and stuff on this site isn't the most important thing, but we're so reserved us Brits!

LisainLondon,
Your post struck a chord with me. I am the BS. WH had affair with student while we lived apart for two years. We also did the "see you on the weekend" thing. It was all supposed to help us make a stronger future. Now we may not have one.

My concern for you is this. WH and I had become used to living apart. It was difficult in the beginning to move back in physically and learn how to be a couple again on a daily basis. I felt we had grown into different people. We had missed so much for 2 years. It was hard but better than not moving back in.

You need a chance to be really married again before you decide to end it IMHO. I often felt like we had been DV for that time period of being apart. Moving back in made us rediscover each other. Not easy while an A is ongoing or one partner is in W/D but necessary. I was able to do a plan A and WH could see how we used to be together. I sometimes realize that I have forgotten a lot about him over the last 2 years.
Does that make any sense? I still love him but don't really know him anymore.
We are making progress. It can happen if you give it time and a chance. What do you think?
Shell

Thanks Shell.

I'm just so frightened that if he moves back in it will become a total nightmare and he'd have to move back out again. That worries me more than anything because he is also starting a new job, plus he has the strain of the A to deal with.

I feel that if he is back in the country but not living here, at least we can meet and talk and try and work things through. He has been, (naturally so), very up and down since discovering about the A four weeks ago today. I still cry everyday for the OM (should ditch that bad habbit, but can't). How could it possibly work, him moving back into my space with all the other pressures, and also I'm not 100% sure that I can make a go of my marriage? Have I just become too independent in the past 2 years? I have come to a place in my life where I don't need him, and currently don't want him, although I'm not sure I don't want to be without him forever!!

Also, what really pains me is the thing of not knowing who I have become since the A. I was always such an honest person who believed in fidelity and marriage for life, but I'm not that person anymore. I look in the mirror and don't know myself.

Did your WH's A take place when he was away? Was he due to come back shortly? My timing sucks really, 6 weeks before he was due to come home he found out. Did he come back earlier or what happened?

Does any of this make sense, or are these words of a rambling crazy woman?!?!?

Lisa,

I was going to make a comment about your "reserved" Brits, but decided you might not be in the mood for it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> First, I don't think a single WS has ever posted here without exactly your concerns and doubts both about your feelings for your H, and your image of yourself. In this respect you are like many people here.

I think it will hurt you to lose your H more than your realize. Whether you realize it or not he HAS been part of your life even during these two years. He has seen you, talked with you, and been in your thoughts. You are still early into withdrawal and you will have strong feelings for your OM.

As for the independence, don't forget that it works both ways. Your H has been without you for two years and is used to making his own decisions. Personally, I think independence is the cornerstone of a good marriage. This is not the same as "independent" behavior. When two independent come together that are capable of filling the gaps in the other persons life, not because they have to or the other person must have it so, but because they have CHOOSEN to do so. This makes for a marriage of mutual respect, and often deep connections.

Lisa, there is no doubt that you and your H must rebuild this relationship from the ground up, but I think the unfair part of things has already occured. If he comes home and stays to work it out and then decides to leave, it is not unfair, it is at least his choice and probably yours as well. As it is now, it is simply YOUR choice. That is not good.

Lisa, you may not have to worry about all of this. IF he decides he cannot live with someone who has cheated on him, you will be without an H and without OM. OM is gone, and H maybe.

So instead of worrying about what you may not be able to do, start to think about what you can do to save this marriage. It may come to pass that neither you nor your H can do this, but you will find that in the trying your feelings for your H will change. It happens here all of the time.

One of the subtle aspects of the Harley approach is that action leads to changes in feelings and thought. Hence the push to meet needs even when you don't feel like it. It changes the dynamic the relationship. I know for a fact that you aren't the first lady in the UK to have an affair. I also know for a fact that all affairs don't lead to divorce. I also know that this isn't a novel with pulsing hearts, and all of the other theatrical devices. This is life and in order for you to make an informed decision you need to TRY and rebuild this marriage.

Even if it fails, you will find in the long term the effort will help you. So my recommendation is to start with a positive action, decide to give it your best effort to rebuild this marriage. Yup, even if you don't feel like it right now. Your H may surprise you or he may decide to leave. You cannot control that.

Action Lisa, postive action is the first thing you should do. Don't worry whether it will work or not, at this point it is impossible to know that. Don't lose something that could turn into a fantasic marriage.

I do hope that something I have said will help you. One last question, are there any children involved in this marriage?

Must go.

God Bless,

JL

<small>[ August 03, 2002, 04:42 PM: Message edited by: Just Learning ]</small>

Lisa,
I too was the OW and wondered at myself now for how I ever let that happen. But I very very much loved the OM. So don't beat yourself up over the fact that it happened. Now you must allow yourself to grieve the lost of this man in your life. It sounds like your H is a very decent guy who loves you enough to want to work things out.
And you must have loved him a great deal in the beginning to have married him.
Here are a few things that helped me thru that initial withdrawal and grieving process with the OM. When thoughts of him invaded my mind, I would go back to what brought me to my H in the first place. I would think on what a fine man my H is and how much he must love me to want to make our marriage work. Each time I felt terrible about what I perceived as something I lost, I would remind myself of what I really had gained.
Then I thought about my family and how disappointed they would be if I didn't at least try to put things back together.
It's hard work and takes some time. If you feel you can, talk to your H more about how you are feeling. Let him know you want to work on your M, but you are having these thoughts of the OM.
Tell him you want to give it a wholehearted try again and then do it. Do all the things you did before the A happened. Remind yourself that you love your H because you married him. It will take time. Lots of time. Give yourself that time.
Time to grieve over the lost of the OM and then time to really love your H as you use to.
If you have any other questions, don't be afraid to ask.
debbie

The problem is that I am not wholehearted in wanting to make a go of it. I am still so upset about OM and my H just will not entertain that. He (understandably so), perceives the A as cheap, sordid and nasty and that the OM has used me. He has a lot of hatred for OM and is not ready or willing to understand why I still feel like this. JL are you telling me that I can still give it a go even if I'm not 100% sure? I understand the independence thing, and one of the problems I felt was that when my H came home, I felt like he was trying to control me and assert his authority in the home. I also understand about taking control of the things that I can. My H really really wants to come home, and me, I reckon I'm about 25% sure - is this enough to work from?

I have two step-daughters - the eldest is 18 next month and the youngest is 13. I am taking them for lunch today. It will be the first time I have seen them since they found out. Unfortunately H told the youngest one when he found out because she was with him. They are both incredibly supportive and remarkably want to see and be involved with me. The eldest is so highly principled and moral I thought she would never speak to me again. The youngest said to me "Lisa you are my third parent, but I am disappointed with you". That surely hurt if nothing else could!!!!

Thank you all for your support and encouragement. I am glad to have found this site and words of wisdom from you all. Please keep responding to my madness or fog perhaps, it helps me so.

Dear Lisa,
I've read through your thread and I think you should really listen to JL - he knows what he is talking about. I am American, but have lived in the UK for 12 years and my H is English. I understand your concerns about "being more reserved" and certain concepts not working over here in the UK, but my experience is that what JL is saying is right - maybe you might use different language or a more indirect approach to opening a difficult conversation - in the end, the human emotional needs are the same and must be addressed, no matter what culture you are from.

Through all your posts runs the fear of your H coming back - I wondered at first if you had been married only a short time before he took the job abroad, but later you said you have been married 12 years.

[QUOTE]
[/QB]I felt was that when my H came home, I felt like he was trying to control me and assert his authority in the home.[/QB]
Here you finally seem to start articulating your fear. You wonder how it is that you got involved with OM even when you knew H was coming home, and you didn't miss him while he was away. Could it be that you got involved with OM as a way of ending a marriage you were not wholly happy in and feared returning to the same status quo? If so, I would not advise you to DV, but to go to MC. Affairs usually happen because of other underlying issues - they don't "just" happen - counselling will help you sort out your feelings. I have been told that the Tavistock Clinic in London is the best place for an approach that does not lay "blame", and has a very good positive outcome. Do you think your H would agree to go to counselling with you?

[/qb]The problem is that I am not wholehearted in wanting to make a go of it. I am still so upset about OM and my H just will not entertain that. He (understandably so), perceives the A as cheap, sordid and nasty and that the OM has used me. He has a lot of hatred for OM and is not ready or willing to understand why I still feel like this.[/qb]
You still have feelings for OM and this is normal. Your H's reaction is also very common. It is easier for him to blame OM for preying on you when you were lonely than to accept that you did this willingly. If he starts to face the fact that you entered into this willingly, he will have to start asking himself hard questions, including "what have I done to contribute to this?" which is always hard for us BS to deal with in the beginning. After the initial shock, most of us start taking serious stock of ourselves and trying to make changes. It would be good if you can give him a chance to do this, but it may take time.

[/qb] JL are you telling me that I can still give it a go even if I'm not 100% sure?[/qb]
A lot of us BS are not 100% sure that we want to stay in a marriage where we have been betrayed and lied to, either. What we do want is to try to save and better our marriages, and it is certainly possible to try again. There will come a time, however, when you will have to make a decision about whether or not your H is the one you want to be committed to 100% and whether or not he is someone who will work with you to better your marriage. If he is someone who punishes you for your sins, and continues to punish you even after you have asked for forgiveness and are ready to work towards a better future together, that is the time to ask yourself serious questions. Are you afraid that he is the kind of person who will treat you this way, or do you think he is a forgiving person?

What you say about your step-daughters is very encouraging. I know the comments of the youngest hurt you, but she was trusting enough to be honest and open with you about how she felt, which is a plus. It is not impossible to heal from these wounds. Many have done it before you. You said in a previous post that you used to have high morals and believed in marriage for life. Now you are not so sure. No-one is perfect and we are all vulnerable to temptation - many BS find themselves in an affair and easily able to justify it because of the hurt they have suffered, so please don't assume that any BS who answers your post is replying from a loftier plane. We are all human, and forgiveness of ourselves is the first step towards learning to forgive others. Our parish priest told me that no marriage lasts a lifetime without going through at least one major crisis, and there's no reason why yours should be any different.

I think you and your H should stay together and try to work things out, even with all the ambivalent feelings - things may get rocky and you will have bad days together, but you may also find the times in your days together to build bridges, which could be lost if you were living apart. Running away from intense feelings won't solve anything, just leave you with feelings of shame and failure which you will have to find a way to live with. If you can rebuild your marriage, you may find that this A was a wake-up call for a better life together. H sounds like he really wants to try, so why not give him a chance?

Hope this helps,
LIR

P.S. Still struggling with how to edit on this blasted thing - my attempts at highlighting in bold-face didn't work. Sorry!
LIR

at the start of your quotation use [ Q B ] and at the end use [ / Q B ]

<strong> (without the spaces) </strong>

cheers
Nick