I'd approach all of this with the "who says I'm gonna take you back?" attitude.

Keep going in the direction you are going. Stay detached.

Wow -- pretty presumptious to simply walk in and leave your stuff. Whoever said he was welcome??

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Lexxxy:
<strong>I'd approach all of this with the "who says I'm gonna take you back?" attitude.

Keep going in the direction you are going. Stay detached.

Wow -- pretty presumptious to simply walk in and leave your stuff. Whoever said he was welcome??</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So do you think I handled it well. I really didn't show any emotion when he dropped the stuff off, to him anyway. I did not talk about US,but asked him about his work, etc.

He said he was going to move everything out of there (has not done yet), leave it here, and stay with one of his friends for awhile closer to his work to "clear his head".

For the first year after I found about about OW, I did the no-nos, cried, making sure I told him I loved him etc. Since I found MB and have implemented the concepts since April I have seen the situation get a little better. However up until a few weeks ago, I did try to talk about US to often. That's when I decided things needed to change, and I was going to take control of my life. I wanted to be a stronger person for MYSELF. I do NOT want to feel like the victim here and feel like I have to tiptoe around him. I want him to see that if I have to, I will go on.

Once I started "detaching" myself, is when he started to come around a little bit, he initiated the relationship conversation which I quickly changed the subject (LEXXY: read my link to the old post in my initital post here)

I am fine with him leaving his stuff here, he does still pay half of the mortgage, which is not cheap, I have never asked him to, he just does it, but I still pay electric, water, etc.

I think that him leaving stuff here may be more of a transitional stage. He has expressed unhappiness in his situation (took it with a grain of salt), and maybe the fogs clearing, dont know.

I am hoping that the A is dying a natural death, I have heard from mutual friends that they fight all the time.

Just wanted to give a quick update:

WH just called me on my cell phone, said he wanted to check in, hadn't heard from me, wondering how I was doing, etc. Told him I was doing fine, been busy doing etc, etc (made myself look way busier than I am).

told me he was still staying with his friend, he would try to see me on Sunday, I told him, okay, might be around.

Then he said he was going to bring some more stuff over. I didn't say anything, just said I had to get back to work.

Thoughts?

GC, I think you are doing great.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Once I started "detaching" myself, is when he started to come around a little bit, he initiated the relationship
conversation which I quickly changed the subject (LEXXY: read my link to the old post in my initital post here) </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is usually what happens but it is so hard for the BS to get to this point. I would keep doing this, you handled the situation great. Keep letting him go to you, be somewhat distant but friendly, you want him to view coming home as safe but that you are not sitting around waiting for him.

I know you are not in recovery yet, I know that these small steps are encouraging, I have recently been exactly where you are, you are handling thing very well, Keep up the good work.
Take care,
Dave

Go GC! eVIDENTLY HE /likes strength in you, and your either way type of stance.. take it or leave it.. is improving things.. keep it up... I need that attitude and I am getting it.. H

WH just tried calling me on cell, then work phone, asked me to please call him as soon as I got the message.

OOoooh, how long should I make him wait. Don't want to make myself toooo available. (FYI..if it was a real emergency, he knows he can press "0" to have the operator page me)

<small>[ August 09, 2002, 11:56 AM: Message edited by: going_crazy ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Honey:
<strong>Go GC! eVIDENTLY HE /likes strength in you, and your either way type of stance.. take it or leave it.. is improving things.. keep it up... I need that attitude and I am getting it.. H</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Good for your, HONEY!!! Be strong!!

back again with an update:

he emailed me this time, would like for me to make a cake for secretary at his new job (I decorate and sell cakes on the side). then he asked me if I would go and buy some concert tickets tomorrow (at the start time, before sellout), I asked for who, and he said for him, me, and another couple.

What????????????

So, I said that I was pretty busy tomorrow, wouldn't have time to do that (mowing yard and haircut, make him wonder what I'm doing tomorrow).

So then he's like pleaase, said sorry, I'm not buying tickets for you and her (oops, small LB), and he said that was DEFINITELY not going to happen.
Put my foot down again, said I wouldn't have time.

He asked about the cake, said I may have time to do it Sun morning.

He said okay, I'll pick it up Sunday when I bring the rest of my stuff over. Asked what he was bring, told me everything but a few changes of clothes to stay at his friends house for a couple of weeks. So I changed the subject back to the cake.

Asked me if I could make two, one for the office, one for the guys.

Anyway, I remained calm, we will see how the conversation goes on Sunday.
YES, I do know that boundaries and conditions will need to be set IF he decides to come home.

Any suggestions when that conversation should take place?? I'm still in the "make him think" mode and don't want to talk about US too soon, but do want him to know that there will have to be conditions (no contact letter to OW, etc).

Help!!

<small>[ August 09, 2002, 11:56 AM: Message edited by: going_crazy ]</small>

he didnt even ask if you wanted to go tto the concert..? what is this pretending like everything is ok with the ws? I know they like to do this... so maybve new job is new beginning for him and he is telling people he is married to you... what the heck are his plans? but dont ask... let him ask you?... wher e is he?? sounds like he does not want a big ... I am sorry routine.. but wants to waltz home and pretend things are OK?

I am glad there are more positive signs... stay distant... let him wonder... make him invite you to concert!

H <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Honey:
<strong>he didnt even ask if you wanted to go tto the concert..? what is this pretending like everything is ok with the ws? I know they like to do this... so maybve new job is new beginning for him and he is telling people he is married to you... what the heck are his plans? but dont ask... let him ask you?... wher e is he?? sounds like he does not want a big ... I am sorry routine.. but wants to waltz home and pretend things are OK?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Nope, didn't he didn't ask, another reason why I said, sorry, don't have time. I will definitely make sure that things are going to have to change, can't just waltz home.

He did tell me that his new job knows he's married and does not know about the situation, if that's the truth, that could be encouraging, he'w too embarrassed to tell them.

At this point in time... and I am hopefully that he is at this point.... when the fog starts to clear and reality starts to set in, it is very painful for the WS. Some try to pretend nothing ever happened, they just want to go back to the way it was and avoid the reality of what they did and the pain that it causes. Not knowing him I don't know... but sooner or later you both will have to face the reality of the situation, not a easy task. Keep doing what you are doing.. at some point in the very near future, if this continues, you will have to draw some boundries, he can not just bounce in and out when he feels like it, the ground rules will have to be set prior to
a recovery. You will have to take a stand, ie like, we are seperated, i don't think we should be going to concerts together, you don't want to push for the recovery, let him come to you, but you will have to set your boundries to protect yourself.
Thanks
Dave.

I agree take it slow. My WS came back after 85 days out the house. Was living with his moms but was s eing OW at every opportunity. Came home said he ended it and realized that life was not for him. That was on Sat and the next day the OW called and slowly I started to see a change in him. Now suddenly he's not so interested in going over recovery strategy. Starts to say he doesn't think this is going to work. He doesn't love me that way anymore and by Thursday night he didn't come home and went to see OW. She actually even called my house at 2 a.m. so that I would know he was with her - what a witch. Now today he says he realized that he didn't really give us a chance and wants to try to give it a chance. So I'm about to suggest the only way we can go forward is with counseling and total separation from this woman otherwise he must walk out the door. So take it slow. I have gotten to the point that I have to leave this to God because there is nothing more that I can do.

I truly believe the A has to die an natural death, you can see in both PAF and GC that your
WS A are nearing the end, the question is is this really the end or just a blip on the way down.
IMHO they are going to end, big question is when. You certainly do not want to get into a false recovery and go through more hurt, therefore the boundries have to be set, of course nothing is without risk. Remember that 95% of these A end, the odds are with you. I think most people get divorced after an A because the BS has given up, moved on, had enough, etc, therefore the need to protect your love for the WS - Plan B.

Have a good weekend, I will say a prayer for all of you.

Take care,
Dave

Back with an update:

WH called me again yesterday afternoon, said he just wanted to call and thank me for making the cakes for his work, said he just stopped by the house to drop more things off.

I was up this morning baking and he called me again, said he was getting ready to stop by to drop a few more things off on his way to a golf tourn.

He came by for about an half hour. When he got ready to leave he actually really kissed me. (I would not allow anything between us when he left, did not want him to have his cake and eat it too). He then told me he loved me and he was sorry (looked like there was tears in his eyes).
Said he was going to ask one of his friends with an SUV to help him move the rest of his stuff tomorrow while the OW is still out of town (in Vegas, probably on the streets!).

He said that he was going to stay with a friend of his for a few days to clear his head.

I really need advice here, I know things need to taken slowly. If he does decide to come back for good, I'm going to resort Back to Plan A in SAA, which also includes him writing a no contact letter. I will know if he is serious about this if he agrees. If he does not agree to write a NC letter, then don't want him to move back in. I thought about having it with delivery confirmation just to make sure OW gets it. I don't know of any 3rd party friend that would do it that I trust.

How do I go about setting other boundaries?

I would like for him to get tested for STD's also, how do I ask that??

these questions are of course if he decides to work on us, I am just trying to be prepared.

congrats... just want to be here for support.. since I seem to be queen of the lb
's by talking truth with my ws... I dont know what to say- my h is not happy wit h me... when I mention anything he has done wrong... maybe slowly... you can ask some stuff... I hope some people experienced with recovery will post to you.

I am so tired of the anger... was your h ever angry with you? hugs, HONEY

GC, I am very glad to see that he is continues to take responsibility for his actions...

regarding a potential move back in....when we got to this point we sat down and talked in out, our agreement included no contact with OM but she did not want to do it via a letter, she called him and told him that we getting back together, I wanted a letter but settled for the phone call.
It also included changing all phone numbers including cell phone, new e-mail accounts, and going to MC one a week,and her continuing to take her Paxil on a daily basis. We also agreed to improve our communication process and never let our marriage get to the point where it was at. We also worked on a social schedule including dating, some that we did not do much with two young children, going to church weekly,etc.

Regarding the STD thing.... I wanted her to get tested, she felt she did not need to but I explained how common STD are, 1 in 5 people have one sometime in their life, problem is that you have to wait atleast 3 months after the last sexual contact to get tested.

Going back to Plan A is the right thing to do but be sure to think about all of the boundries YOU need to set.

Good luck, sounds very encouraging..

Dave

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Honey:
<strong>I am so tired of the anger... was your h ever angry with you? hugs, HONEY</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">oh yea!! see my reply to your post

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by davepr:
<strong>

regarding a potential move back in....when we got to this point we sat down and talked in out, our agreement included no contact with OM but she did not want to do it via a letter, she called him and told him that we getting back together, I wanted a letter but settled for the phone call.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Right now he is going to move everything out of OW's house (still in process, I'll give an update later this evening on this process). He is planning on staying with one of his friends close to his work, and I hope that we can use this time apart without him living there to discuss our future and how we are going to rebuild. I am going to ask him to write a letter, also should put in there that if he has accidently left something there to have a 3rd party person pick it up.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by davepr:
<strong>
It also included changing all phone numbers including cell phone, new e-mail accounts, and going to MC one a week</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">the only thing is that he will still have his email account at work which cannot be changed, and defintitely counseling

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by davepr:
<strong>
Regarding the STD thing.... I wanted her to get tested, she felt she did not need to but I explained how common STD are, 1 in 5 people have one sometime in their life, problem is that you have to wait atleast 3 months after the last sexual contact to get tested.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">didn't know about the 3month thing, is that for all STD's?? Also, so many STD do not have any signs or symptoms, especially for women. I think clamidia is one that shows no signs but can make a woman unable to have a baby.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by davepr:
<strong>
Going back to Plan A is the right thing to do but be sure to think about all of the boundries YOU need to set.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think that a huge boundary, which is part of Plan A, is absolutely no contact with OW

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Right now he is going to move everything out of OW's house (still in process, I'll give an update later this evening on this process). He is planning on staying with one of his friends close to his work, and I hope that we can use this time apart without him living there to discuss our future and how we are going to rebuild. I am going to ask him to write a letter, also should put in there that if he has accidently left something there to have a 3rd party person pick it up. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think this is good move, it will give you both the time need to work out the conditions. Also, he needs to commit to you that if there is any contact, even accidental, he informs you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">the only thing is that he will still have his email account at work which cannot be changed, and defintitely counseling </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Most e-mail systems (outlook, Notes, etc) allow you to block out e-mails based on userid.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">didn't know about the 3month thing, is that for all STD's?? Also, so many STD do not have any signs or symptoms, especially for women. I think clamidia is one that shows no signs but can make a woman unable to have a baby. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No,just HIV, some say to be 100% safe you should
be retested at 6 months. I know... that is a long time.. Our doctor told us that you are 99% confident at 3 months, but a small number of people do not develop antibodies until later. Until then their is always safe sex. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Yes,many STDs have no symptons,especially for females.

Dave

Back with an update:

WH just left (unloading another carful), OW won't actually be back until Wednesday from Vegas, he has almost everything back except the rest of his clothes, and a couple of pieces of furniture. His friend with the SUV couldn't help today but is going to help before Wednesday to get the larger stuff out.

He told me multiple times today that he was sorry, that he is embarrassed by what he has done. and that for the first time in 18 months he feels good about himself, and that he knows what he wants, me. He went on to say how depressed he has been this whole time even though it seemed on the surface he was OK. He just held me and hugged me alot, it felt real and it felt awesome.

I asked him if he wanted to read one of my books, and then I made a joke about me not having any ( I have about 30-35 books sitting in a laundry basket by my bed). He was like "we don't need those anymore". I did hold up "SAA" and he said to keep that one. I don't want to push, but I also know there's a long way to go.

I thought about saying: "Hey, this author mentions that SF is usually the top emotional need of a male and I should fulfill it"! Just kinda jokingly, see if it grabbed his attention and sparked some interest!!

Keep ya posted.