Where do they sell those T-shirts???? I need to get me one!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Sorry! I just read your post and that made me laugh!! THANKS!

I probably should start a new thread, but for Seahorse and others -- here is my update.

Last night I went to a barbecue at a friends house not far from where WH is now living. WH asked if I could stop by later that evening at his office and go out for a drink.

We did and he said some very unusual things.

First, he said that he knew he was a conflict avoider and has been avoiding having difficult conversations with me. He thought that we should make time just to talk. I told him that I agreed that would be good and that this was my highest priority and I would talk whenever he liked. He said he recognized that and that it was him avoiding the conversation not me.

Then he said that we needed to talk and put out what is in our hearts or else he was just going to be in his dumpy apartment paying rent. I don't know if that means he wants to come home or what. I just said, yes, I agree we need to talk about all of this.

He said that he is just so "undone" and unhappy and doesn't want to be around people. I told him that I could tell he was overwhelmed and unhappy and that I would do whatever I could to help him/support him, but that it was difficult for me because I was unsure what or when he wanted my support. He said he recognized that and that he would try and communicate better what he needed -- but that he just does not know what he needs.

He said he was feeling really down and having me there to support him was really important to him. I told him that I want to be there for him.

He asked if he could come over this weekend to take care of the cat, mow the lawn, etc. (I am going out of town because he told me a week ago he was going fly fishing with a friend of his and so I booked a flight to go see my family/didn't want to be alone). I told him that would be a great help if he could come over and take care of the cat. I also said that I hope he knows that if I thought we could have spent time together this weekend that I would not have booked a flight, but that I really had thought he was going out of town/would not want to spend any time together. He said he appreciated my saying so and that I should go on my trip.

He then said that he was really thinking about how he can set some boundarie with his work and not take on so much/not commit to so many things. I told him that I thought that was a good start. (This has been the biggest source of discord between us/he long hours and commitment to nothing but work).

I really feel as if he is coming out of the fog and feel hopeful. I know not to expect too much too soon, but I do believe that he is beginning to see that I am not the cause of his unhappiness. His unhappiness is due to feeling his life is out of control and he needs to recognize and take steps to change that. He is scared and he is somewhat paralyzed.

He called late last night to check and see that I got home okay. I told him I really appreciated his concern and calling and that it meant a lot to me (which it does).

I do not know if he will ask to come home. I do know very clearly that he needs to agree to counseling (either individual or joint or ideally both) in order for that to be feasible for me. He also needs to agree to sort out his job situation and how he is going to handle contact with the former OW. I want him home, but am also afraid.

Well, like others (such as Elad and GoingCrazy) I am continuing to hear:

"I cannot really commit to working on our marriage because, while I love you, I do not feel the passion I need to"

It is a catch-22. They don't want to take the leap and try until they feel passion. They can't feel the passion because they don't spend enough time with us to let us deposit love. The A started because they DID spend enough time with that person for them to deposit love and meet needs.

I feel as if this is an intractable situation. I am trying so very hard in plan A to meet needs and show love and change. At the same time I hear from my WH that he has noticed changes, that he is confused, but he cannot do anything until the passion returns. Yet, we barely spend time together because he feels guilty that he is giving me hope by spending time with me.

Ugh.

Are you sure we are are not married to the same husband??

Mine seems to want to look at the past, and base his decision on this, He won't allow me to deposit love units, I barely see him too, he has agreed to talk to Steve 6AM, I hope he doesnt' cancel.
It is so hard, we have been hoping and praying for the day that they say the A is over, but it is so hard to deal with their "pain" and confusion right now. Where were they when they left us? It is so tough.

<small>[ August 29, 2002, 05:49 AM: Message edited by: Seahorse ]</small>

Hi USH I'm sorry I haven't been around much for anyone.

Your H is still very foggy and it frustrates you that he cannot commit. Its a shame he dosen't know what we know about falling in love. They have forgotten how they got there and for some reason the commitment back to the marriage for them is too scarey.

My H told me he was trying to decide for the next 50 years. How silly! All we need is a commitment for a day, then the next day, then the next day, then the.... I'm sure that's probably all you after right now too, just a little bit, not a lot.

You are so committed and he just dosen't see it. There are a lot of people walking around with heads up you know where.

Hi Unsureheart,
Reality does seem to settle in with your Husband. A bit. I'm toning it down on purpose as I (and arent we all) well used to it by the roller coaster ride. It may take a bad day, a brief smile from OW or whatever and he might look at things differently.
But it is encouraging what he says. And what he does. If he asks for help in this phase, ie to re-do his feelings of being 'undone', then you should definately help. If part of the reason is his job-dissatisfaction, maybe you can hit two flies with the same stone - because if he moves jobs, the OW problem will go away too (at least they wont see each other daily)

So keep up the good work. Help and support him find a new job, if it's that what he wants to do. Make him understand that he isnt a loser at all if he moves jobs, even if lower paid (I beleive you mentioned something along these lines a while ago). Jobs and male pride go hand in hand, so dont patronize him there, just support whatever he does.

This is my first posting, I hope I can help as a struggling WH myself!

I am encouraged by Spacecase comments. Keep on with Plan A as long as you can, it can be a long haul I know (hope for a 'magic' moment).
I have been through the "Am I trying to get my BW to end M?" But I do not now think I am. I know how much love and value we have together over 30 years! She still sometimes saying, "I wonder if I was right to take you (me) back!" I hope/believe she was/is.....
You should know if you can trust and are seeing positive changes. There is hope as long as there is hope. Only if you really do not trust the WS should you consider the worst. So, Plan A for life sounds and feels to me necessary. As Heartpain has said, 6 months may be nothing in the rest of a lifetime.

kind regards....a hoping WS....

------------------------------
myself WH58,BW47,M 27yrs
2 sons 24,19
EA with M co-worker from 10/99,OW42
Left home for 15 months, but never lived with OW.
not seen OW since 05/01; 01/02 recovery started, v hard but getting there.. hoping.

Sorry, posting was wrong....! Didnt understand nomenclature/abreviations.
My A was PA!! And Married OW not a Male, LOL!
Working hard on second PlanA, PlanB failed after a while for my dear BS. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Going Crazy -- I posted to you on your thread. I am still so amazed by what the WH say. My thoughts are with you. Thanks for checking in with me -- I know you are in pain yourself right now.

Seahorse -- I am just catching up again with your thread and your thoughts about going out of plan B. I am glad you will be talking to Steve H. Maybe you can wait to make a decision until you get back from Vanuatu and your dive. Thank you for checking in with me.

Nick123 -- Thank you for your thoughts. I'm really struggling, but will get away for a few days this weekend to see my parents, sister, and her children. I haven't seen WH since Sunday, but he's called every night. He still doesn't know what to do about his job. The problem is that he's working so much, that he isn't taking the time to think all of this through. I am hopeful that he will spend some time this weekend "sorting out his head" or whatever he keeps putting off.

Sapdon -- Thank you for responding, I had to laugh at your second post. I too had trouble with the acronyms at first. I certainly intend to plan A for the rest of my life -- hopefully with my current H.

My update. I did not talk to WH yesterday after he had been so foggy the night before -- with the "I need to feel the passion again before I can reall recommit". After he called (Monday night) I got a call from a childhood friend who was going to be in town visiting with her children and husband. She asked if I would like to join them for dinner with her brother. As I was driving to the restaurant last night, WH calls on my cell and says "how was your day, what are you up to?" I told him what I was doing and he said "Oh". He called several times while I was at dinner (I had turned my cell off because I HATE it when people take cell calls in restaurants). After dinner we all went back to her brother's house so I could catch up with my friend. We had a really nice time. Now, her brother is someone I had gone to college with and have seen maybe 2x in the last two years. He is an extremely nice guy and single, but I have certainly never thought of him in the romantic sense since I have been married (and don't now).

WH called as I was driving home and said "that was a long dinner". I said yes, we had finished and put the kids to bed and all sat in the living room and talked for an hour or so. He asked whether I had an interest in the brother. I responded, "where is that coming from, I just had dinner with a group of people". He said "oh sorry". He called again when I got home to say good night. He called again this morning on his way out of town. I'm not going to suggest that playing games is a good idea, but I certainly got more attention and phone calls from WH when he thought I might be interested in someone else.

I am really glad to be getting out of here for the weekend. While I would love to talk to WH I sense he's not quite ready to talk and I really and truly need a break from this. I have to stop worrying about what he is or isn't thinking about us and our M (or the OW for that matter) for a few days.

I hope you have a nice weekend!!!!I will probably have a clean house this weekend, since WH and I were supposed to spend it together!

USH I will be posting soon about my appt with Steve (it got moved to Saturday my time (2am no less).

Hope you are OK and enjoyed your weekend.

r u back? how r things?

I wish I had something monumental to report, but I just have to report that I am feeling overwhelmed by life.

My weekend with my family was wonderful. As I sat in the house alone last night, I thought to myself that it would be very appealing to just pack and move here and live the life of a beach rat for a while. It was tempting to call up WH and say "Hey, you know what. I'm tired of being the responsible one. I'm leaving and going to work at the beach, so I'll need you to move home and take care of the house, the cat, etc. and I really don't know if and when I'll be coming back". Ok, I know I won't follow through on that, but I was feeling tired and the temporary mental escape felt good.

WH called and said he wanted to spend some time this upcoming weekend talking. I told him that would be fine. I dread the conversation because I dread hearing what going crazy has been hearing and has been all I've been hearing from WH intermittently. I dread hearing that he's still in love with OW. I don't want to hear anymore that he's not in love with me and doesn't see how he ever will be. I don't want to hear that we've always been incompatible. I don't want to hear this re-writing of history. Prior to the A, he was a loving and attentive man. I was not perfect, but I was not the woman he made me out to be during the A and during his withdrawal.

I have seen glimmers of hope and I am not willing to give up yet. I am just having a bad day. I see my parents and how they have survived to have a 42 year marriage that is still full of love despite many problems throughout the years. I spend time with my nieces and nephews and am filled with regret for not having children of my own.

Sorry for the whining. All in all my life is good and this A and the hurtful things WH says are setbacks. It's just when I talk to WH and he is so down (like he was today when he called) it is hard for me to not tell him that his making his life better/finding happiness are his to make and that he has to stop blaming everyone else. These are the days when I really wonder if he will ever see the light in any facet of his life, not just our relationship.

Well, on a positive note you can say that as long as he hangs around you, as long as he wants to talk, chances for reconciliation are still fully intact. And in terms of what he will say - well, don't we all know the stuff they tend to say on these occasions, be it the love you-not in love one, be it broken promises, fantasies etc etc.
His A will fade - that's what the statistics say at least. Try to help him with his work situation - that seems to be important to him as well as you (OW). Support him there, tell him you admire him in his work etc (if you honestly do) - that may help. Dont 'tell' him - just let him know that you're supporting & admiring him job-wise whatever he may do.

Hi unsure...

As you know I am in the same boat...especially the "I can't commit until I feel some passion" part. How can they feel that when they want to be apart? It's simple---you can't. That's how the relationship built originally---by spending time together...how simple is that?

Over the weekend my WW told me that every time she sees me she is hoping that something will be there, some spark, some of the old feeling...that she wants to get there but doesn't know how. But right now, still, there seems to be nothing... ...Ouch...

It's amazing in our case that she was always the one telling me how wonderful I was and how important I was to her..."the best" in her words...

Now, she, too, has re-written history and tells me that she was soooooo unhappy for so long and yada, yada, yada <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Anyway, tomorrow is our anniversary (10 years) she asked me to take her out for a nice dinner, which I plan to do but I don't expect much from her....

As you know, this is just SOOOOO FRUSTRATING!!!!

Oh, BTW I, too have heard the "would you like to date so & so?" All I can do is shake my head in wonder...

Hang in there unsure...keep doing stuff for yourself...things have to get better, right? They do, don't they, right? I hope so....

Take care

E

Very much the same over here, I can assure you

This rewriting history thing is scary, isn't it. And when you insist that, well, things weren't that bad actually, then it's "but I/you have changed so much in the mean time". A prime candidate for the next pub quiz at the Fog & Fence.

Same for the "would you like to date so & so?" - another classic, ringing big bells in my ears. My WW suggested why I don&#8217;t go away on a singles holiday (you know, these organised holidays intended for singles to meet each other) whilst she went away on holidays with OM. Another bestseller from the 'should I laugh or cry' department.

Isn't is amazing that our WS's seem to be saying the exact same thing to us BS's!! I don't know how your WS is, but mine says that his situation is "unique" and it feels real, it is not an addiction.

Anyway, unsureheart, I'm reading another book (of course) called the Surrendered Wife and it basically helps me better understand my controlling nature of mine, a big LB, even Steve said I was trying to "educate" WH. Anyway, something I got out of it last night, advice I need to take to heart as well, is to portray a positive mental attitude, act like everything is just fine. If you act negative, and portray your self as a negative person, the other person will see you that way and will not want to be around you.
Same goes for dreaded "conversations" we have been having with our WS's. The last conversation I had with him was horrible, but then I come here, and talk with Steve, and find out its babble, babble, babble. I really wish I knew how Orchid babbled back, I think I will have to start a topic on that one.
This is the time, (I think), that we need to show or best side to our WS. No LB's, no pursueing, nor R talk, unless initiated by the WS. We need to be upbeat, someone they want to spend the rest of their life with.
Anyway, I need to take that advice as well.

Oh yeah....

I also got the "How can this work we have both changed so much..." tossed out this past weekend, too.

It's like what? We have been totally different people in the course of some months as opposed to all the years prior?

I am still kind, thoughtful, loyal, generous (OK, now I sound like a Boy Scout) but you get my drift, right?

Of course this has changed us but not to the point that a R cannot be salvaged or reconstructed if the commitment is there.

I think there is a lot of merit in the suggestion to not be whiny, argumentative, distant etc when with your WS...I admit that I have been guilty of this--but no more.

She fell in love with a funny, intelligent, self-confident person and I need to regain those qualities and maintain them for good.

I do think there may be two things at work in their minds.

One good: They won't commit until they are sure in their own minds that they can do it and not cause further hurt to the BS. The fallacy here is that this can happen on a one-sided basis and that the WS will be clubbed over the head some day by the commitment fairy.

One bad: They really think they want out but care so deeply about the WS that they are trying to find some least hurtful way to do it. The fallacy here is that there is a least hurtful way to do it AND that in looking for it they aren't giving themselves the chance to rebuild what may be a completely salvagable situation...

I dunno...it all sux, but then I've been saying that for awhile...

E

HI Unsureheart, I've just spent the past hour reading this thread. I am sorry for the pain you are going through. Your WS sure is messed up right now, and I just want to encourage you, that you are doing exactly what you should be. Loving him, no matter how "fogged" he is, because one day he will come out of that fog, and be so blessed to know you have stood by him through it all. I will pray for you, that God will give you courage, peace and patience to deal with your WH throughout. I know that your faithfulness will pay off, even though the pain is so hard to bare at times. At those times, give that pain over to God and let Him take it from you.
You mentioned in one posting that you were not a religeous person, that you read a book that quoted alot of scriptures, and that it helped...
If I may suggest, to open your bible and ask God to show you the answers, He will gladly do so.
When I was going through this same struggle with my WS, being devistated at what was going on, I didn't know where to turn. My friend took me to a friend of hers, who happened to be a missionary on leave near here. So we talked, I cried, and let all my fears out, his words speak to me loud and clear today, and I believe was the best advise anyone ever gave me, he said "to become the Holiest woman I could become" and watch what God will do. I took his advise and although I still have a long way to go, I have had the most awesome life since my WH chose to leave. My relationship with God has grown so much, and I know that God has only His best in store for me. If I need answers, I go to the bible, and like magic the words jump off the page and it's exactly what I needed at that time.
Although my marriage has not yet been restored, I am happy, I have my own business, have sooo many people around me most of the time, I am loved and mostly know that I am loved by God.
I know that God wants marriages to work, and you have the right heart, you want it to work and you are standing for your marriage no matter how bleak it may look to you at times, you are going to be rewarded my friend! God will never let you go through more than He knows you can handle, and the day that restoration comes, you will look back and say, "it was all worth it".
God Bless you now and always, and know that there are many out there praying for you and your husband!
Monika