Hi all,

I am not quite ready for plan B, in fact Steve H. suggested I hold off for a while, but I just wanted to get my thoughts together for when it happens. Just some quick facts: WS filed for D 11/01 but has taken no steps regarding it; Custody has been settled; I believe the EA is over as far WS and OM having a future, but some contact may continue; I moved out 2 weeks ago; WS has called 20-30 times since for various reasons, some legit, some just excuses to call, but she continues to rely on me like a H; the calls have tapered off recently.

Here's my letter to her:

"Dear <W>,

I regret that we find ourselves in the situation we're in. I never imagined this would happen to us.

I know that you've been unhappy for a long time, for many reasons, some of which you may not be sure of yourself. I'm aware that my behavior in the past contributed in part to your unhappiness and the emotional estrangement between us. I've worked very hard these past 21 months to overcome that behavior, not only for you, but for me and our daughter as well. I wanted to be a better husband, a better father, but most importantly a better person. The changes I've made have improved my relationships with many of the people in my life, especially <daughter>. We're closer now than ever. People can change if they're willing to take a long, hard look in the mirror and hold themselves accountable for who they are. I did it and I'm proud of the person I've become.

I still believe in our marriage. I believe we can learn from our mistakes, grow from them and with effort and desire we can begin to slowly rebuild the love that was the foundation of our marriage and start to become a family again, for our sake and our daughter's. I believe we can have a marriage based on trust and honesty where we both feel safe sharing our innermost thoughts, feelings, fears and dreams. The kind of marriage we both imagined when we said "I do". I'm not naive, I know there's been a lot of damage done. We'd likely need the help of Steve Harley or someone like him to guide us in learning better ways to communicate, meet each other's emotional needs and begin to rekindle the spark of emotional intimacy between us. It won't be easy, but it can be done. I've had the good fortune this past year to meet many people who have been able to do it.

Despite my contribution to our problems, it's no coincidence that our marriage deteriorated as your relationship with <OM> grew. I've suffered tremendous pain from seeing our marriage fall apart, from the lies and deception, from the many details I've learned about your relationship with <OM> and from our impending divorce, but my love for you and our daughter gave me the strength and hope to go on. But the pain became unbearable and it was more than I could take. I could not continue to live the way we were, so I had no choice but to move out for my own emotional well being.

This wasn't an easy thing for me to do, but it was a necessary step. I want to be your husband in every sense of the word, but until you want me back in your life as a husband, I cannot continue to have you rely on me when you have a problem or need help with something. It makes me feel uncomfortable and used. Therefore, I must ask you not to contact me except for issues regarding <daughter>. You have made it clear that you don't want me as your husband, and until you do, I cannot be a part of your life except as the father of your daughter, it is simply too painful. As always, I will continue to do whatever is necessary to insure our daughter's happiness and make her life as fulfilling as possible.

If, down the road, you have a change of heart and decide you want to give our marriage a chance, I am open to discussing it with you and working out a plan to restore our marriage, but I will need to know you are committed to our marriage and that <OM> is no longer a part of your life. I still love you, and as I said before, I believe in our marriage and I am willing to do whatever ever is necessary, but until that time, please respect my wishes.

All my love,
<H>"

Opinions wanted, please!!!

sad dad

Dear Sad Dad
I am not in a position to advise on the contents of a Plan B letter - my WH and I have only been in recovery for 2 months now and I am so hopeful that we will make it. I am Plan A'ing and my H is remorseful and committed to trying to find love in our marriage again. I just wanted to let you know that your letter brought tears to my eyes. It is very gentle and loving, but strong and firm too. I hope your WW appreciates the sentiment within it. I wish you the best for the future.
Fishwife

Saddad, I think it's a good starter letter...but it doesn't read to me like a love letter. I think it's supposed to leave the reader with a feeling of being loved, and a sadness at the ending of that. It comes off right now to me rather accusatory and somewhat weak. I think you want to come across strong and lovinging, willing to own your part of things...but I don't think you need to point out HER part of things. It's well known..both to you and to her.

fish,

Thanks for the kind words.

h4f,

I understand your point about being accusatory, but it's hard for me to take the brunt of the blame for our failed marriage (which I have done numerous times) when she has never admitted the EA or taken any accountability. That said, however, I did make some changes:

Dear <W>,

I regret that we find ourselves in the situation we're in. I never imagined this would happen to us.

I know that you've been unhappy for a long time, for many reasons, some of which you may not be sure of. I'm aware that my behavior in the past contributed in part to your unhappiness and the emotional estrangement between us. I've worked very hard these past 21 months to overcome that behavior, not only for you, but for me and our daughter as well. I wanted to be a better husband, a better father, but most importantly a better person. The changes I've made have improved my relationships with many of the people in my life, especially <daughter>. We're closer now than ever. People can change if they're willing to take a long, hard look in the mirror and hold themselves accountable for who they are. I did that and I'm proud of the person I've become.

I still believe we can have a happy, loving, fulfilling marriage. I believe we can learn from our mistakes, grow from them and with effort and desire we can begin to slowly rebuild the love that was the foundation of our marriage and start to become a family again, for our sake and our daughter's. I believe we can have a marriage based on trust and honesty where we both feel safe sharing our innermost thoughts, feelings, fears and dreams. The kind of marriage we both imagined when we said "I do". I'm not naive, I know there's been a lot of damage done. We'd likely need the help of someone like Steve Harley to guide us in learning better ways to communicate, meet each other's emotional needs and begin to rekindle the spark of emotional intimacy between us. It won't be easy, but it can be done. I've had the good fortune this past year to meet many people who have been able to do it.

I've suffered tremendous pain from seeing our marriage fall apart, learning about your relationship with <OM> and dealing with our impending divorce, but I never stopped loving you and I never forgot what a wonderful person you are and how much joy you brought me. That gave me the strength and hope to go on. But the pain became too much to bear and I could not continue to live the way we were, so I had no choice but to move out for my own emotional well being. This wasn't an easy thing for me to do, but it was a necessary step.

I do not want this divorce. I want to be your husband, in every sense of the word. I want to hold you, talk with you, laugh and cry with you, comfort you, share the joy of raising a family with you. I want to grow old with you. As much as I want this, you have made it clear that you don't, and as long as you feel this way, I cannot be a part of your life except as the father of your daughter, it is simply too painful. I cannot continue to have you rely on me like a husband when you have a problem or need help with something. It makes me feel uncomfortable and used. Therefore, I must ask you not to contact me except for issues regarding <daughter>. This is something I believe is necessary to preserve and protect the love I still have for you before it slips away.

As always, I will continue to be the best father I can be and do whatever is necessary to insure our daughter's happiness and make her life as fulfilling as possible.

If, down the road, you have a change of heart and decide you want to give our marriage a chance, I am open to discussing it with you and working out a plan to restore our marriage and make it what we only dreamed it could be, but I will need to know you are committed to our marriage and assurance that <OM> is no longer a part of your life. I still love you, and as I said before, I believe in our marriage and I am willing to do whatever ever is necessary, but until that time, please respect my wishes.

All my love,
<H>

How this?

sad dad

<small>[ August 06, 2002, 05:09 PM: Message edited by: sad dad ]</small>

MUCH BETTER! I know what's occured has not been your fault...and that's not what I meant by "accusatory". The fact is at this point WHOSE fault it is isn't the point. I know she needs to look within and accept fault in why her life is where it is...but that's not your job to educate her on. That's her choice to make. I think this letter sounds much more loving and painful to read. I think it's very very good!

The second version is much better. Warmer. Women like to hear their name spoken by the man they love.

My suggestion is this ... if you have a "pet name" that you've used for her in happier times (one that she likes) ... I suggest you "slip in " that name somewhere in your letter, at least once. Also, a one sentence happy memory would be good .... something very special you both have shared.

Think : warm + loving + saddened .... yet strong with backbone and integrity.

Pepper <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

h4f & pepper,

Thanks for your replies and suggestions. I also got a few good suggestions off the plan A/plan B board. Someone suggested I talk less about "my" pain and another suggested I soften "commit to restoring our marriage" to "commit to trying to restore our marriage". I hope for some more replies and I will post an updated version soon, then run this by Steve Harley for some "tweaking".
This may be the last meaningful correspondence I have with my W and it has to have a lasting affect.

Thank again!

sad dad

<small>[ August 06, 2002, 10:11 PM: Message edited by: sad dad ]</small>

Insure should be 'ensure.' <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Picky picky me!!!

I actually don't care for Ensure...can I have a Daquiri instead??

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Any other opinions???

sad dad

Hi sd,
I think your second letter is good. I'm pooped tonight, so I'll re-read it tomorrow and see if I can comment again.

You might want to take out "I'm not naive". That sorta struck me as a negative thing, and the rest of the sentence still gets your point across.

How would you prefer she contact you regarding issues about your daughter? I don't think phone should be the primary mode of communication. You might specify e-mail, and of course phone in emergencies. Or designate a middle-person.

I forget.... have you already arranged visitations/custody? A schedule? A mode for each seeing your D with minimal contact between you? If that's already organized, then good. and you may want to add "we'll continue our present arrangements.." bla bla. If it's not already organized, you may want to specify how you'd like those things to be handled.

BIG HUGGGGSSSSSS to YOU as you face this new phase!!!!

I'm not here as often... but I am here for ya best I can for pats on the back.

Faith1

Faith1,

It's good to hear from you. I hope you're doing well. Last I remember, your xH still calls you once a week or so. Is that still going on? How are you handling it?

Yes, we do have a custody arrangement, in fact it just got entered into court last week. 50/50 shared custody (best I could hope for). I have her Tues/Wed overnight and every other Fri/Sat/Sun overnight. That gives my W a five day stretch on her weekends, but I get my daughter one afternoon or evening during that time. We pick or drop our daughter from daycare on the appropriate days, so we seldom have to see each other.

As far as communication, my W doesn't have a computer at home, so email isn't an option. I don't mind phone calls, as long as they are necessary and pertain only to our daughter. However, she calls me for every little thing.
Yesterday, in fact, she called me because we got a letter from the county tax accessor that we may be in line for a refund, but they need a copy of the property taxes we paid in 1999 and she didn't know what to do. There's a copy of that with our 1999 tax return, which she has at the house. Grant it, it was important, but something she could have easily taken care of herself. She also called to ask if I picked up medication for the dog. He lives with her, why is this my problem? She called this morning to ask if she could put the fan on the thermostat on even if the AC is off. These are the things that drive me nuts. She doesn't seem to "get" that we're seperated and getting divorced.

Anyway, good to hear from you.

sad dad

<small>[ August 08, 2002, 07:02 AM: Message edited by: sad dad ]</small>

ok, well, I'm worried that her phone calls about your D will have the potential to become excuses for her to talk about anything, and just be more difficult for you to deal with. Or she might call about every little thing about your D. (based on her behavior right now)

Just think through it. There may be no way around it. Maybe she can e-mail from work? Send notes in D's bag back and forth? (about medicines, schedules, school stuff, etc.)... leave voice messages instead of speaking directly... etc.

Thanks for asking about me. His constant phone calls and neediness have stopped. Now I hear from him about once a week. He hasn't been following the D agreement on a few financial details, and I've made it clear that I can't be friends under those conditions. When he DOES call, he's very friendly and flirty, and he even left me a small gift yesterday at my door <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> (a small picture for the house). I believe the friendliness is just the "salesman" in him, and he's just trying to be on my good side. If he wants to make LB$ deposits, he's not trying very hard.

A couple of more "tweaks" for your letter... if you want my thoughts...

towards the top, add a little here... "proud of the person I have become, and I am happy to still be growing and learning." something like that - to indicate your humbleness in constant change in your journey in life...

perhaps... in the "I want to be your husband" paragraph... you could slide in another sentence telling her some of her strenghts. "You are a beautiful, vibrant woman, and I love having you in my life." ??? you know, being more specific about her good points. I know I love hearing things like that - makes a huge impact in my self-esteem... and would probably do the same for your W.

Perhaps a reminder at the very end: "please respect my wishes for no contact at this time." WS's are so foggy sometimes, that I'm afraid they miss the point of the letter.

Just some ideas...

<small>[ August 08, 2002, 09:35 AM: Message edited by: Faith1 ]</small>

Faith1,

She is calling about every little thing regarding our daughter, in addition to every little thing about the house, the dog, etc.

I'll take the changes you suggested under advisement, but it doesn't seem to matter much at this point. My W called this morning and told me she wants to get together to talk about selling the house. Please check out my recent post on it.

sad dad

Dear "sad dad",

your letter is touching, but I feel it is somehow too considerate and well thought through. It shows you are strong but some parts sound condescending (like "I have become a better person"-implies that she hasn't-which may be true but doesn't need to be said in this letter). After a long struggle like yours I can imagine that there is little passion left, but I really liked the part of "I want to hold you... More of that would be great. Mention some good memories that you have of her to express the sadness of loosing each other. Use her name in the text a few times with important passages.
All the best

Well, I've taken all the suggestions under advisement, and in light of my W's sudden desire to sell the house, I've made some changes. Here goes:

"Dear <W>,

I regret that we find ourselves in the situation we're in. I never imagined this would happen to us.

I know that you've been unhappy for a long time, for many reasons, some of which you may not be sure of. I'm aware that my behavior in the past contributed in part to your unhappiness and the emotional estrangement between us. I've worked very hard these past 21 months to overcome that behavior, not only for you, but for me and our daughter as well. I wanted to be a better husband, a better father, but most importantly a better person. The changes I've made have improved my relationships with many of the people in my life, especially <daughter>. We're closer now than ever. I realized people can change if they're willing to take a long, hard look in the mirror and hold themselves accountable for who they are. I did that and I'm proud of the person I've become.

I still believe we can have a happy, loving, fulfilling marriage. I believe we can learn from our mistakes, grow from them and with effort and desire we can begin to slowly rebuild the love that was the foundation of our marriage and start to become a family again, for our sake and our daughter's. I believe we can have a marriage based on trust and honesty where we both feel safe sharing our innermost thoughts, feelings, fears and dreams. The kind of marriage we both imagined when we said "I do". I know there's been a lot of damage done and it won't be easy, but I've had the good fortune this past year to meet many people who have been able to do it. We'd likely someone to help guide us in learning better ways to communicate, meet each other's emotional needs and begin to rekindle the spark of emotional intimacy between us.

I've suffered a great deal of pain from seeing our marriage fall apart, learning about your relationship with <OM> and dealing with our impending divorce, but I never stopped loving you and I never forgot what a wonderful person you are and how much joy you brought me. That gave me the strength and hope to go on. But the pain became too much to bear and I could not continue to live the way we were, so I had no choice but to move out for my own emotional well being. This wasn't an easy thing for me to do, but it was a necessary step.

<W>, I know it's hard to remember the happy times we had, but they weren't that long ago. Spending Sunday's at your parent's, laughing, having a few drinks, watching the family grow year by year. I think back often to the day <daughter> was born, and remember looking at her and then you in amazement, thinking how could you give us such a wonderful gift. I cry when I think about what a happy day that was for us. There were bad times too, like when <daughter > was sick two years ago. I was so scared we were going to lose her, but we got through it together, and with God's blessing, she was fine.

I know I've told you this a number of times before, but I do not want this divorce. I want to be your husband, in every sense of the word. I want to hold you, talk with you, laugh and cry with you, comfort you, share the joy of raising a family with you. I want to grow old with you. As much as I want this, you have made it clear that you don't, and as long as you feel this way, I cannot be a part of your life except as the father of our daughter, it is simply too painful. I cannot continue to have you rely on me like a husband when you have a question, a problem around the house or want me to do something for you. It makes me feel uncomfortable and used. Therefore, I must ask you not to contact me except for issues regarding <daughter>. If you must contact me about the sale of the house or anything else, please email me. This is something I believe is necessary to preserve and protect the love I still have for you before it slips completely away.

As always, I will continue to be the best father I can be and do whatever is necessary to ensure our daughter's happiness and make her life as fulfilling as possible.

If, down the road, you have a change of heart and decide you want to give our marriage a chance, I am open to discussing it with you and working out a plan to restore our marriage and make it what we only dreamed it could be, but I will need to know you are sincere about trying and assurance that <OM> is no longer a part of your life. I still love you, and as I said before, I believe in our marriage and I am willing to do whatever ever is necessary, but until that time, please respect my wishes that we have no contact at this time.

All my love,
<H>"

I have an appt with Steve H. on Tuesday and I plan on discussing this letter and how to proceed now that my W wants to sell the house. Thanks to all!

sad dad

<small>[ August 11, 2002, 11:40 PM: Message edited by: sad dad ]</small>

bumping

I like it! And I think by drawing your boundries you'll feel better too.

I'm sure she's not feeling as she thought she would...so she probably thinks selling the house will help to aid in closure so she can move on from her misery. She'll probably have some relief since her life will atleast be moving in SOME direction, and no longer stagnant...but it will not last. Then she'll convice herself it's just because the Dv isn't final. She'll be wrong about that too.

SD,

Very good letter. I'm tempted to copy parts of it for mine!

Just one comment; I don't think it is clear what she would have to do for you to engage in rebuilding your M. "Assurances" of NC w/OM I think is a little vague.

Of course, considering your situation in particular, that may be exactly what you need to say.

Best of luck! As you may know, I left my house on Wednesday, and will deliver the letter this Sunday according to Steve's plan.

Take care.

h4f,

You may be right, she may be thinking "well he's gone, but I'm no happier, must be the house, we have to sell the house, then I'll be happier".
Steve H. said pretty much what you did, that after I left, she wouldn't be happier, but would blame it on the house not being sold, D not being final, yada, yada, yada...and would begin pressing that issue. At some point she's not going to have anything or anyone to blame, the house will be sold, the D will be final and I'll be gone from her life.

Personally, the first couple of weeks after I left, I felt relieved, but that feeling has passed and now I'm feeling alone and struggling.

I really admire WS's like yourself who come here and try to help. It must be very difficult re-living some of the things you went through. It shows your character and I appreciate it more than I could say.

Spacecase,

I was intentionally vague about OM. My W never admitted her EA and I honestly don't know if he's in the picture anymore, so I didn't want to make her EA/OM the big issue.

Best of luck to you on Sunday. Let me know how it goes and how you adjust to living alone.

sad dad

<small>[ August 09, 2002, 11:42 AM: Message edited by: sad dad ]</small>