Hey, ML!
You doing OK today? Just checking in on you!

I think his response is about what one might expect. Hold out for the "enthusiastic" engagement.

Dear SC,
Thank you for looking in on me. I am doing much better today as my twin sister is here from New york for a few days and we are yapping away non stop about everything and nothing. As My BIL says, hope you two find something to say!

Otherwise plan B is ongoing and I am waiting to see what H does about talking with SH. Not holding my breath.

Hey, ML!

Hope you're doing well in your sister's company!
Just dropped by to say hi ;-)

SC, Thank you for your greetings. It's really nice having someone with me during these tough times. We have been going out every night with friends and while I work all day she keeps busy by cleaning and decorating my house ( she is a decorator). Talk about a good deal. Mostly though she gives me priceless support. Bless her heart.
And you, how are you holding up. My thoughts are with at all times and I know you will do well no matter what in the end. I really think you should get out and do things. It really helps. Big hug to you.

Well, my sister just left with her daughters on her way back to NYC and I am left here, on a beautiful week-end in an empty house with no will to go anywhere or do anything but post here. I am feeling very low, very lonely and totally hopeless, basically having a self-pity party again.
I have a ton of bills to deal with and I don't feel like doing that. I could go biking but it reminds me too much of my H and so on for everything I think of doing.
OK, I am going to pull myself up by the boot straps and remind myself that if there is a chance that I may have a fulfilling marriage one day, this is the only way to get there.
I did not have a marriage before. I was part of a triangle and I was miserable. So I have to hang on for a little while longer and stop whining.
There, I am better...maybe.
I miss my H so much. I know I mustn't call him and I won't but I have a knot in my stomach and I try not to think of the good times we had together because they were not real.

Oh, ML; sorry to hear you so down. It's easy to fall down again after a little high (your sister's visit), but you have to. I've been there a hundred times.

Do go biking, or visit with friends, cheer up! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Things will get better, hang in there. You have friends here...remember that.

Big hug!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thank you for your encouragement, SC. It's nice to know you look in on me from time to time. I don't have much to say. I have had no contact at all with H for one week today. Actually we did have that exchange of email on Monday so I guess that counts. I don't know what he has done about my suggestion to call SH but since appointments with him are difficult to get I doubt if he has one lined up yet. We will see. I am not too optimistyic and my expectations for anything happening soon are next to nil so all I can do is go on with my life and wait for things to happen on H's schedule.
Hope you are doing well.

Hi ML!
I'm doing well. Spent the whole day yesterday fixing my W's pc.

Do you have another session scheduled with Steve soon? I was wondering because of your Plan B letter, and if you're going to go with that and when. I presume you'd run all that by Steve before acting?

Maybe if you have a session scheduled, you could email H and let him know, maybe offer to "share" the session with him? That's how my W and I have done it up to now. He'd talk to each one separately but in the same session.

SC,
Good to hear you are holding up. You really handled yesterday very well. I have a feeling that as in my H's case it will take a while for things to sink in with your wife. Like my H, she is still in I-can-have-them-both mode and does not yet believe that you are in it for real (plan B, I mean). Like my H she thinks she can still reel you in anytime by saying what used to get us rolling over doggy style not so long ago. By now though she must be starting to have doubts big time. If you continue what you have been doing and in the great way you have been doing it, I bet you will see results.

In my case as hard as it is, I find that not having to deal with H daily is really a relief. I miss him terribly but I don't miss the awkwardness and pain of our discussions before he left, and always wondering (knowing!) if he was in contact with her probably everyday. And I remind myself that boundaries had to be set at last: OW contact means: NO ME. I don't count the number of times I told him to choose between her and me, to decide if he wanted to be married to me or not. To no avail. As a matter of fact he was becoming more and more disrespectful by telling me not to ask anymore and ASSUME he was in contact with her. It was time to stop asking, to stop hoping that doing the same thing over and over was going to bring different results. History showed that the result was the same for three years. Boy, am I a slow learner or what?
It all boils down to self-respect. It does not matter what they do but they will have to do it without us. Their choice not ours.

Plan B ( or plan A for that matter) is not made for us to convince them to stop their affair and come back to us, we can't. It is for us to reclaim our life and extract ourselves from their drama. What they do when they are alone is up to them not us. Hopefully they will start seeing that what they had was not the horrible marriage that they thought and they will want it back. But I am not holding my breath. H and OW have been at it for seven years so I am not hopeful that they will be able to let go. That makes me very sad but there is nothing I can do but be gracious and strong. But that is very hard at times as you know.

You are absolutely correct, ML; the sooner we internalize that it is about US (BS) and not about THEM (WS), the sooner things seem to begin to turn around.

They turn around for us, because we recognize that we will be OK, or as OK as we are able to make ourselves, and they turn around for the WS because they see this, and for the first time they hear <strong>"You are free to do what you want, I just choose to not be a part of it"</strong> as opposed to <strong>"You have to choose between me and OP"</strong>

And that makes a world of difference, because it is then that they begin to imagine a life without you, it is then that they no longer have the "excuse" of "I need time" or whatever other excuse they have had. You're telling them "sure, take all the time you want, just do it without me"

That is how WE begin to heal and begin to prepare for a better life for us; with or without them. Sadly, but with less pain.

I haven't posted in a couple of days because nothing much was happening.
Yesterday H came over for supposedly the last of his non-forwarded mail. Why he still has some mail sent here fits with the not wanting to settle down in his appartment. Keeping a foot in the door.
Once again we talked (I know, not in plan B) but his initiating OR talk is such a new development.
Anyway to make a long story short, it was the same stuff as usual: he is not happy. I "threw him out" and he does not have his house to work on. When I pointed out that I did not throw him out but that he had made a choice to leave because I did not accept the situation we were in, he answered: "well you said you did not want me here when you came from vacation".
In other words he missed the point entirely and I kept it at that. He also said at one point that I did not understand him, that many of the things he said to me (like I don't love you, I am not with the most important person in my life, I don't want to be close to you) were said because I got him to say them by berating him, and asking questions over and over. Did you say fog and blame assigning?????
After he left I found an email he had written me just before coming over":
"I have been thinking about emailing but it's difficult. I saw part of the movie "Love Story" on TV and was moved by the scenes where they find out that the wife is seriously ill. It was emotional because I remember the similar time in our lives as when we were closest. I guess its a benchmark for how close we can be." This from someone who told me that when he was ill he felt alone and that is one of the reasons he got closer to OW.
So the ambivalence continues but I know better now. It's very depressing to see that he is making no progress at all, just fishing to see if I'll change my mind and fall for his sentimental blackmail as I always did in the past.

He did not mention if he called to make an appointment with SH and I did not ask. He did not say anything about coming home or no contact with OW but I really don't expect that any time soon if ever. About that he said that things are not what they seem and that one oi the great joys in his life is renovating the house and now he does not have even that.

He said that he takes life as it comes, that he does not expect to be happy in life and just takes what comes his way. To which I replied that on the contrary he did not take what came his way but sought what he believed would make him happy. That he made conscious choices all the time just like everyone else.
It irks me that he wants me to believe that he has no hand in anything, no responsability, that things just happen to him and he just deals with them as they come when all the while he is actively doing what's good for him and disregarding what his actions are doing to others.

So I guess we are nowhere near any king of fog lifting and I am even more determined in my plan B. No more OR talk, not being there when he comes over etc... Now if I can only make that stick.

Fog, Fog, Fog!!!

Nothing but fog, ML. He is displaying all of the classic textbook WS traits; not responsible, doesn't want to face himself, blaming you, blaming the "circumstances", bla, bla, bla.

BUT: he IS sending soem positive signals; he misses his life with you, his home, he doesn't want to let go. That's positive. His comment on "Love Story" too. Very positive thoughts about your care for him.

I'd say that a full Plan B might be just the "medicine" you both need. If you feel YOU are ready, and you can do it...I think you should.
But I would talk to Steve about it first to make sure, and to help you prepare.

It's a tough road, ML, but I see there's hope...I really think there is. Stay strong and focused, you are doing well.

Yes, SC, you are sure right about the fog.It isn't getting any better although I sense that he does not like my new stance and is trying to see which one of us will blink first in the dare game. He does not seem to understand that this is no game. This will make or brake our marriage I am sure of that.

As for those positive signals, I have been getting those same signals all along. He has often said that what is important to him is the fact that we work together on the house and do things together like biking, tennis. OW lives in another province and cannot provide that. OW provides the emotional part of his life and I provide the material. He says he wants me for the companionship and for the things we do together but that he is entitled to his calls to OW. So missing the house and what we did together is a given. He has his life perfectly compartmentalized and picks and chooses what he needs from each one of us. This way he has it all but neither one of us does. Rather selfish.

The only thing that may be different is that he is talking without me initiating it. But the story is always the same: how can I get her to see things my way. He is still trying all his old tricks, blame, sentimental blackmail and self pity. Problem is I don't fall for it anymore and that has to disturb him some. On the other end he is no closer to seeing where his choices are taking him. He thinks he is not making choices, he is just going where life leads him. He is an innocent bystander in his own life scenario. Amazing!

ML; the important thing is that you are now able to recognize those things about him, and not allow him to influence you, and not give him what he asks.

That, in itself, should be a signal to him that things are changing, and that's good.

Of course, he takes and wants no responsibility for his actions and sees them as "destiny", but that's only because he does not want to face his own demons.

A life-changing event is the only thing that will push him off the security of the fence he's sitting on; the OW dumping him, the A ending for some other reason, or your stopping to provide him with those things he gets from you.

Hi, Mapleleaf!
Wanted to check up on you; hope you're doing OK <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Hang in there, ML--you are doing so well. I admire you. You are seeing the truth of his behavior so well. I am encouraged by you and trying to do that for myself as well. My WH is the same way--all the events are him as a victim, he had no choice etc. When I am able to see that for the blaming etc that it is, instead of trying to fix it, or change him, and know that he is separate from me and not a reflection of me, I feel so much better. No contact or conversations with him help me not obsess about his state of mind. As SH said to me--he is like an alcoholic who says he is depressed. You try to tell him to stop drinking and you can take care of the depression, and he says--take care of the depression and then I will stop drinking b/c it is the only thing that helps me. They are just so mixed up!

You are not alone--hang in!

ML; ca va bien?

SC, Those three words brought tears to my eyes. You are so amazing. You are going through hell and you take time to ask about me.
I have been away for a week and am just catching up with all your news.
I love the thread about unconditional love and it really makes sense to me. This is what I feel for my husband. I love him in spite of what he has done and is still doing. On the other hand it does not mean I accept what he does or that I want to be with him while he is involved with OW. I love him but my boundaries are clear. I hate what he has done to me and to us but I don't hate him. I wish I did. It would be easier to let go.
H came over yesterday. I actually heard the garage door open and I saw him there. He was putting his father's ladder on his car roof racks. I was surprised to see him and he came up to get his mail and we had tea. We talked about different things but no OR talk. It was pleasant. The phone kept ringing so I let it ring. It was my sister who wondered where I had gone so realy on a holiday. Anyway he left "to let me get back to my caller". As he was heading back to the garage he said : "What a nice house" and then turned to me and said : "What a nice house person". And that was it.
All in all peaceful and nice but not really plan B.

I have not heard from him today and did not expect him to. So as it turns out I am really in a modified plan B. I can't seem to be able to ignore him totally. Somehow it seems so rude.

There is also a new addition to my household. My sister let me have one of her cats whom I adore. He is the most affectionate animal I have ever seen and he follows me everywhere. He even sits on the keyboard to get my attention. He needs my love and i am happy to give it to him as I need to give it right now.

So SC, Ça va bien. I think that no matter what happens I will be OK. Mostly because there are men like you around who take the time to care about others. Thak you from the bottom of my heart.

ML; it's good to hear from you again. Helping others helps me love myself more, and I need to do that right now, as I am going through some difficult moments, moments of doubt and uncertainty.

Je soigne de vous.
SC

Today started out pretty well. I felt good and went to work happily. Then, mid morning, the only person who knows about my situation told me that her best friend who is in the same profession was told that my H had been seen this summer with another woman in a restaurant. I know this is bound to happen and I know that H saw her but I did not know she came to this city. Anyway, the point is that no matter how much I accept the fact that he is now totally "free" to be with OW, it really hurts me to hear this. I don't know if it is because it made their R more real to me, or if I am upset because now everyone is going to know about us. My H has been very careful to not let anyone on to his A or our separation and I guess it was fine with me because I feel it is no one's business but ours. I am just trying to analyse why I am so upset.

What worries me is that I am still not immune to this type of pain and that if he going "public" with this, it may mean that he is getting comfortable with it. I guess I care still enough to be hurt by this kind of trigger.

So now I am very sad, very discouraged and very down and I hate realising how little I have detached from H and from our situation.
Help! I need encouragement!