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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 35
L
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 35
H left a week before Christmas, did the back and forth thing for months, found out there was an OW but H insists she was a friend that took it all wrong....but yea, waaayyyyy too many things that even I would take as more than a friendship.

He has snapped out of it (so to speak), came home in March...had 2 mistakes in April that I found out about and confronted him so of course he confessed to them (couldn't deny it) but has been home since. So here's the problem.....

IS HE EVEN WORTH THE FIGHT ANYMORE???

I loved him tremendously, but the pain is just unbearable. The lies and the stories, I am just so afraid of when it will all happen again. I know I can't worry about the future, or even think about the past, in order to recover from all this, but WOW.....this is harder than I ever expected.

He gives me everything....passwords, never leaves the house, allows me to vent when I need to, but I don't think he has been completely honest. Are there any WS out there that really did just have a friendship that went wrong.....he swears it was never an affair, but then why all the hiding and lies?? A trip and roses?? The withdrawal....I know he is lying, but do I really know that....NO.

How do I move forward. Every man close to me has done this to his wife. My family I feels is notorious for doing this. Getting married was so scary to me becuase of this and look at what happened. He did it to me....he always told me he would be "that man" that would show me not all men do this and look at the mess he made. We were barely married 2 years....so do I have 2 years of a marriage to look back at or were those 2 years the joke I should laugh at?

I'm sorry....I'm just rambling. This is a hard time for me since school staff are back in session and he and her both work for the school district.....this is so not easy.

Joined: Mar 2002
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Leti - I don't really know what to say except that I can relate to you about the not knowing part - my situation was that my husband had an affair with a stranger some girl he met - then he told me about it and hid cell phone bills etc. Then I had one # that was supposedly the girlfriends - then come to find out it was my neighbor's cell phone and she had changed it once I found the # - Now they never told me it was her number but I found out because I got the code to his cell phone and intercepted five calls from her with the last one being Hi hon I guess we aren't going to hook up - I really wanted to hook up - Ok well to make a long story short - I flipped out - and now we are getting divorced because i will never trust him (he says) etc... but he still denies that he slept with the neighbor - he says that they were just friends - ok now just friends and they are hiding their phone calls, calling at 1 2 3 4 5 in the morning, calling from the mens room when we are out to eat, calling from my sisters on a holiday??? Now basically I am the only one who believes him half of the time but I know in my heart that there was something going on there that was not right - because if it was so innocent then why all the lies !!! I know how you feel always second guessing what you believe is true and then actually what is staring you in the face - I just wanted to let you know that I know how hard it is - and I am not sure when or if it gets better - but I am hoping soon... Good Luck and go with your first instinct....

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oh, there is no doubt in my mind something went on. He will never admit to it and that is because he is weak (if he wasn't, it wouldn't have gone this far). I guess my biggest problem is I am torn between being the b**tch he deserves to have or be that wonderful wife that got me stepped on the first time. Maybe I should rephrase that, to take some responsibility....I know I have my faults...and should have done more as a wife, but the sex was always there, I don't drink, I never wanted to go out without him...I guess my biggest downfall was working 2 jobs so he could have what he "wanted" (boots, clothes, extras) and going to school (which he pushed because he was proud of me)....I wasn't there much but I only did it because I thought he supported me. If he would have been man enough to tell me it was straining our marriage I would have quit in a heart beat.

Nonetheless, we are where we are and that can't be changed....he will never admit to a physical relationship with this person which is fine with me. I would say I have enough proof to believe what I want. But when do I allow those feelings of anger to subside and really move forward with him. He is trying so hard and I don't want to push him away but I am scared when I feel like letting my guard down. I feel that one day when all seems well he will hit me with "of course I am still seeing her....you LB all the time and so I needed someone" It's really hard not to.

So with your situation you mentioned getting a divorce. Do you want that because you can't forgive/forget or is that what he wants? Just asking....I want the same sometimes because I know I deserve more than looking at this man for the rest of my life and imagining all that I do.

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Leti - Hi well my situation is like this we have been together for 19 yrs. married 15 on Thursday - we were married at 22 and soon to be 38 - everything was fine with our relationship - or so I thought - we never had any sex problems either - the only problem we ever had was when he went out with his friends and came home loaded at like 3 in the morning I basically wanted him to grow and become a family man - I wanted me and my girls 12 and 9 to be his top priority - Last summer he started acting really wierd and I started joking about a girlfriend - well I never in a million years believed he had one - well then you know the rest about the stranger then the neighbor and never knowing what to believe - well what lead to the divorce - I said I would forgive him - I asked him to get rid of his cell phone - stop going out after work etc...- I was so insecure and crying all the time I guess you could say I was in shock - I couldn't let it go because I wanted to know what really happened - So he would hide his cell phone, stay at work drinking , come home go out again and stay out late to see if I was gonna trust him - we had a lot of fights - He didn't come home a couple of nights - then in April - he had come and gone a few times then I found out about the neighbor and it was one lie after another - and he said he wanted a divorce because - 1 - I would never trust him and he wasn't going to live like that 2 I don't believe he wasn't with the neighbor 3 my family will never accept him - it is all crap and he has been trying to lay all of the blame on me - I know I didn't handle the situaion very good but he betrayed me and did nothing to make it better.. He said he wanted the divorce I just wanted out of limbo land. I am still not doing good I have good days and bad days - I sometimes think I would take him back in a hearbeat and other times I think my god he might be right I may never trust him again - I don't trust him now - I still question everything - that is about the sum of my story any question?? Actually he never did anything to try and make it work.... So what do you think???

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Ladies,
I'm sorry to hear these things. Sadly, I am now in Plan B precisely because of the lies, and the continued, secret contact, etc. But forgiveness can come, peace can come, I hope this excerpt from a "After the Affair" might help both of you:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Forgiveness
From “After the Affair” – Janis Abrahms Spring, PhD
Learning to forgive p. 238 (Excerpts)

If your goal is reconciliation, forgiveness requires restitution. Forgiveness is a two-person process; you can’t forgive those who refuse to acknowledge and redress the harm they’ve caused you-you certainly can’t have a vital, intimate relationship with them.

“True forgiveness cannot be granted until the perpetrator has sought and earned it through confession, repentance, and restitution.” - Judith Lewis Herman

A partner who wants to be physically and psychologically connected to you must work to win forgiveness through specific concrete behaviors. Unearned forgiveness, like unrequited love, reinforces the assumption that it’s your job alone to stay attached, that your partner doesn’t need to share the burden of recovery. If you have even a shred of self-esteem, you’re likely to find this a dysfunctional notion.

“While reconciliation may be a desirable outcome, psychologically, forgiveness has to be earned. To forgive people who do not acknowledge the injury, or even worse, rationalize their injurious behavior as having been deserved (or justified), is to sustain the injury all over again.” Robert Lovinger (Clinical Psychologist) in “Religion and Counseling”

The truth is, however, that you, the hurt partner, won’t ever forget how you’ve been deceived, whether you forgive or not. Years later, you’ll still be able to recall the exact moment of the revelation, and all the gory details of the affair. You, the unfaithful one, are likely to want your partner to forgive and forget so that you can move on to a peaceful reconciliation, but you can’t rush the process. If you don’t attend to the damage you’ve caused, your partner probably will.

When you forgive, you don’t forget how you’ve been wronged, but you do allow yourself to stop dwelling on it. Your hurtful memories are likely to stay alive, but relegated to a corner of your mind. You continue to see the damage, but only as part of a picture that includes the loving times as well-the ones that remind you why you’ve chosen to stay together. The past may continue to sting, but it’s also likely to teach come important lessons and inspire you to do better.

Forgiving, in short, entails conscious forgetting, which Jungian analyst Clarissa Pinkola Estes describes as “refusing to summon up the fiery material…willfully dropping the practice of obsessing…, thereby living in a new landscape, creating anew life and new experiences to think about instead of the old ones.”

Unearned forgiveness is pseudo forgiveness. It’s something you grant, not because your partner deserves it, but because you feel pressured to, either by others or by romantic moralistic assumptions about what forgiveness means. Given rashly or prematurely, it buries the pain alive, and robs you and your partner of the chance to confront the lessons of the affair and properly redress each other’s wounds.

It is commonly assumed that forgiveness is not just a gift to your partner, but a gift to yourself, in service of your best self, and that it imbues you, the forgiver, with a sense of well-being, of psychological and physical health. By forgiving “you set a prisoner free, but you discover the real prisoner was yourself”.

The idea that forgiveness is categorically good for you is popular both with the general public and with professionals, but it hasn’t held up under study. In fact, it has been shown in some cases to be anti-therapeutic, spawning feelings of low self-worth in the person who forgives.
“A too ready tendency to forgive may be a sign that one lacks self-respect, and conveys-emotionally-either that we do not think we have rights or that we do not take our rights very seriously,” writes Jeffrie Murphy in “Forgiveness and resentment”. Murphy goes on to point out that a willingness to be a doormat for others reveals not love or friendship, but what psychiatrist Karen Horney calls “morbid dependency.” My own clinical experience confirms that unearned forgiveness is no cure for intimate wounds; that it merely hides them under a shroud of smiles and pleasantries, and allows them to fester.
You may have been taught by family or religious leaders that forgiveness is a redemptive act-a form of self-sacrifice that good people make to their enemies. By forgiving, you demonstrate your compassion and innocence, and preserve, or create, an image of yourself as a martyr or saint.
Forgiveness by itself, however, is not admirable-unless, of course, you believe that silencing yourself and denying yourself a just solution is admirable. What you consider magnanimity may in fact be nothing but a way of asserting your moral superiority over your partner and freeing yourself from your own contributions to the affair. What you see as self-sacrifice may serve the larger purpose of putting your partner under your control, under a debt of gratitude that can never be fully repaid.

The problem with expedient forgiveness-forgiveness granted without any attitudinal or emotional change towards the offender-is that it’s likely over time to exacerbate feelings of depression and grief, and feed an underlying aggression toward your partner. Those who forgive too quickly tend to interact with false or patronizing sweetness, punctuated by sarcasm or overt hostility. The result is a relationship ruled by resentment, petty squabbles, numbness, surface calm, and self-denial- a relationship lacking both in vitality and authenticity.

A patient named Pat modeled expedient forgiveness when she put her husband’s affair behind her long before the two of them had examined its meaning and put it to rest. “I know Henry never stopped loving me,” she told me. “I don’t need him to beg for my pardon.” Eight years later, however, though Henry never strayed again, they were still stumbling over trust and intimacy issues.

As I’ve said, “making nice” settles nothing. If you want to pave the way for genuine forgiveness, you can’t sweep what happened under the table. You need your partner to understand your pain, feel remorse, apologize, and demonstrate a commitment to rebuilding the relationship. To heal, you need to forgive, but your partner must apply salve to your wounds, first.

Self-Forgiveness
In addition to forgiving your partner for wronging you, you should consider forgiving yourself for the wrongs you’ve inflicted on your partner, your family, and yourself.
For you, the hurt partner, these wrongs might include:

• Being overly naïve, trusting too blindly, ignoring your suspicions about your partner’s infidelity;
• Blaming yourself too harshly for your partner’s betrayal;
• Tolerating or making excuses for your partner’s unacceptable behavior to preserve your relationship;
• Having such poorly developed concepts of self and love that you felt un-entitled to more;
• Hurting and degrading yourself for making unfair comparisons between yourself and the lover;
• Feeling so desperate to win your partner back that you acted in ways that humiliated you-in front of the lover, your family, your friends;
• Losing your sense of self; losing sight of what you value in yourself;
• Putting your kids in the middle by needing them to support you, love you, and take your side against the other parent;
• Being so upset by the affair that you weren’t there for your children;
• Isolating yourself unnecessarily; trying so hard to protect the feelings of your children and parents that you cut yourself off from their support;
• Contributing to your partner’s dissatisfaction at home (for example, by failing to take your partner’s grievances seriously; getting buried in your career or in the needs of your children; being too critical, unavailable, or needy).

You, the unfaithful partner, should consider forgiving yourself for:

• Feeling so needy, so entitled to get your needs met, that you violated your partner;
• Exposing your partner-the person you love, the parent of your children-to a life-threatening disease.
• Blaming your partner for your dissatisfaction, without realizing how your own misperceptions, misbehavior, and unrealistic expectations compromised your relationship;
• Developing attitudes that justified your deception and minimized the significance of your actions;
• Failing to confront your partner with your essential needs; acting in ways that blocked your partner from satisfying them;
• Having unrealistic ideas about mature love that rendered you incapable of tolerating disenchantments in your relationship;
• Having such poorly developed concepts of self and love that you didn’t know how to create and sustain intimacy, or feel satisfied in a committed relationship;
• Inflicting chaos on your children, family, and friends.

No matter how your partner may have contributed to your unhappiness at home, you, the unfaithful partner, are solely responsible for your deception, and need to forgive yourself for the harm you’ve cause by violating your covenant of trust. You may also want to forgive yourself for the hurt you’ve caused your children. This may be an easier task if you can teach them through your own example that two people who love each other can make mistakes, take responsibility for them, and work together to renew their lives together.
It may help you and your partner to forgive yourselves if you learn to accept yourselves as fallible, erring human beings-conditioned, confused, struggling to make the most of a life you neither fully understand nor control. Self-forgiveness doesn’t relieve you of responsibility for your words or actions, but it may release you from self-contempt and from a “crippling sense of badness” that makes you believe “I can’t do better.” With self-forgiveness, you bring a gentle compassion to your understanding of who you are and why you acted the way you did, and reclaim what you most value in yourself.

To “forgive and forget” is just a popular saying. Forgiving and forgetting are two completely different notions, and rarely go together in the real world.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If your Hs are willing to try, to do some of this, perhaps you may both find peace, and a way out of this pain. My best wishes to both of you!


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