Steve H. says Plan B should be put on hold. Keep Plan A'ing. And I really trust him.

H is still angry. It's been over a year. Am I fooling myself? Steve says no way.

But has it been too long? Today, I'm just confused and I need some reinforcement one way or the other.

Thanks.

T- I tend to believe plan a will work best for you and me... sad, but true.. these are temper fit babies who want to be treated great... plan b is not the answer to showing them more love.. in my book...good luck, it is hard... did he say start the drop offs and pick ups at home again?

No , you are not crazy.,... trust steve h... I believe... get that song... I believe I can fly... I believe I can touch the sky- I think I saw you posting about it before? right? maybe not... but I do believe...and believing is one great step towards being together again... act as if...

Hugs to you, you need them.. HONEY <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Terri,
I'm not gone yet <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> .

I think the big danger in a long Plan A is the lovebank drain on you. What does Steve say about boundaries, like H doesn't walk into your house, calls first before coming over, regular visitation? I think those help bank again the drain.

My Plan A was long, 18 mos. We reconciled 26 months after H's PA began, 21 months after the first separation. I think the Plan A served to show my H I was serious about my commitment, my changes, and I really did love him.

I guess I'd worry about your H's temper and safeguarding against that.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Terrified:
[QB]

... Steve says no way.

QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Terri,
I do not know what you mean here? ... Too long?
I have never spoke with Steve, but his reputation & all this material sure suggest that he knows what he is doing!

You have a sense for the depth of what you covered with Steve, (and the confidence you have in his approach)it just seems, based on all of your post, I have not seen very many signs that your H shows any respect nor has anything but his own interst in mind.
My first instinct is frankly that Steve's job may be somewhat limited if you go to Plan B & his job is to repair and he would naturally have confidence in his techniques, but you have the resources to continue with more sessions with Steve & it would seem prudent to follow his advice! Steve is quote, the expert here, not us!! -- It would be very interesting to learn his perceptions through you on this. My thinking for example, would suggest that the plan B would shake up the satus quo and put more teeth into the idea that your H cannot continue to play both sides of the fense & continue to abuse you!! (As in dobson's book). Did Steve talk about setting boundaries for yourself, thus avoiding such abusive actions, while you try & impress your H that you are a worthy person? One that would not tolerate such abuse? Curious if Steve addressed that part of it?
Obviously a delicate tight rope.
Are you able to have another session soon?
Best Wishes!
HH

<small>[ August 12, 2002, 04:25 PM: Message edited by: Hurrian Hoosier ]</small>

Honey, I definitely still "believe"...sometimes I just have to remind myself as to why I still want him.

HH, By too long, I'm making reference to the length of time that has lapsed...I feel so disconnected from him. I did send him a short email telling him he was still in our prayers. That's all I said and the only reason I did that was because I re-read H's Diary of a Madman.

You're absolutely right about where my H's head is these days...certainly not with me. He's SO angry that I told his family about the affair. He says he may never forgive me for that. Is it because I burst his bubble or is it because he thinks I've ruined him in the eyes of his parents? I don't know.

Steve simply suggested not reacting to his abuse. If he abuses, retract and walk away instead of responding. Part of my ongoing Plan A efforts is to prove to him and to myself that I can curb my angry outbursts.

Steve's counselling is expensive but, based on something I read in a recent post from Bramblerose which mentioned the high costs of divorce, I decided to invest in Steve. I'm trying to have my H attend an appointment (Steve's request) and following that occurrence (I pray that it does), I'm going to meet with him again.

The struggle continues but I thank all of you for your patience since friends/family get pretty sick of this, want it to be over, etc.

Terri,

I don't think this is over by a long shot...your husband has yet to process any other thought pattern in the situation you BOTH are in other than blaming you....

Local weather report in your zone goes something like this "Fog remains thick and present with a zero-zero visibility forcast at present time...now back to to the real world...

EVEN if you your were the wife from heck (which you were not)...he still was with you..he had that beautiful little one with you....and still has to face the choices and actions that make him a responsible party...especially the whole OW in other country mess...gag...HE did that...independant of you....

Also even with all his moaning and gnashing of teeth...he hasn't filed...he hasn't been the one to tell family member's he has found his 'soul mate" gag again...All he has managed to do in all this time is play the blame card over and over again..ad-nauseum...

Terrified he has much to process...and if he is one of those people that can not process his own actions and learn from them...you will come to a spot where moving on is easier than not because he will just become pathetic.....and he will be doomed to repeat the same mistake over and over again...

If your choice was take in the man who blames you for everything...including the fact that ink sticks to children...the way he is today...I know you wouldn't want him....

This man is still filled with such self-hate and anger....and plan A is actually the armor not to be baited into taking abuse...to be strong and show that old patterns just don't work with you any more...that you are adult enough to accept what mistakes were made...and change...

His anger hides his pain...his anger diverts the attention from him...his anger is his only defense in avoiding the real issues...his anger even keeps him from moving on with or with out you...

I think the one thing you should not do is make any type of move to file..shields up cause often part of the plan is to give the spouse so much grief that they file and the WS feels relieved of being the "bad guy"....and it is the out they are cowardly waiting for....

Read up on how to speak alien fog talk...take deep breathes....smile often...
and hold on tight....
peace to your home.
ARK

Hello dear Ark,

Earth to Ark...you're the angel I need today at a time when detachment feels very lonely. You helped me to soften my reaction to my H when he angrily called me at work.

I still have access to our joint account. It's how I transfer money to and from...I had discussed with him last Friday that he owed me money for the bed and mattress we bought for our D (his share) which is due on my Visa yesterday. He called wondering why I still have access (?)...grumbled that there's no way that should happen, etc. I didn't lose it. I just said, Okay. Sure. Sorry. Thought you understood my Visa was due on Monday." Hurt like hell but I did it with a smile.

Again, I thank you for your insightful and caring words.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Terrified:
<strong>

HH,

I did send him a short email telling him he was still in our prayers.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This sounds very good -- you know he has some serious issues & I think of him as a sick person, more than a bad person --

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Steve simply suggested not reacting to his abuse. If he abuses, retract and walk away instead of responding. Part of my ongoing Plan A efforts is to prove to him and to myself that I can curb my angry outbursts.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This makes sense to not get drawn into his challeneges to fight -- you be the adult -maybe he'll follow?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I'm trying to have my H attend an appointment (Steve's request) and following that occurrence (I pray that it does), I'm going to meet with him again.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Terrie, Frankly this surprises me that your H would consider this - I'll pray for this as well!
BTW, I assume a part of Harley thing is to counsel with you personally - If you have not already, I am sure you will bring this up with him about your H being so mad at you about you telling --personally, I don't think it is so bad, but Harley can give you good input as to how to deal with this -- I am very proud of you in contacting Harley & working with him! Way to go!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

T -

I'm usually on the divorce board, but my ExH is ALOT like yours and I wanted to share with you my experience.

I went to Plan B - BIG mistake. Made Ex - who wasn't Ex at the time - REALLY ANGRY. He did crazy things like break into our house to get things.

Anyway, if you think about your WH like a child trapped in an adult's body, then you'll know how to deal with him better.

So, what do two year olds do when they are told no - they throw a tantrum. It's better to give themn choices like do you want to do A or B. Use I messages as much as possible, don't make demands. All of this works soooooooo much better.

So, what will help in this situation? Well, learning to set your boundaries and to take care of you works the absolute best.

If the divorce laws we're the way they were in my state I would have continued Plan A and not gone to Plan B. I too counseled with Steve H and received great advice.

You are on the right track, if there is a right track. Plan A is definitely the way to go - however, I do have to say that the more independent and selfconfident I became, the more attractive I was to my spouse. Kind of like a Divorce Busting make them think you have a life kind of thing.

These men are extremely jealous and possessive and don't want us but don't want anyone else to have us either. I'm not saying to go out with other guys or anything. But they do get curious when you start having a life without them and seem happy about it.

The key is to wait out their childish behavior and get them to trust that the changes we've made are for real and are lasting.

You are on the right track.

Stay strong and keep up the good work. K

Terri,
I was thinking about your distress over your H's anger about you telling his P's the truth. How was that for a mouthfull!
From my point of view I feel you were completely justified. We undersatnd your H being upset - he did not apprectiate being exposed as the bad guy.
Right or wrong? I know that we have discussed this & I have forgotten some specifics, but what alternatives did you have?
He is not living with you. This of course indicates some kind of a problem. DAAA! Now as I recall, at the time he went on with other people (mutual friends ?) about what a bad W your were and more or less presented a case that he was unhappy (and had been for years!) & that is why he left.
That is one thing, if he wants to make that kind of presentation to the genral public - this still brings you down - makes it your fault. Is that fair to you? I don't think so!! When it comes to dealing with your D, thier Grand D and all the complexities of that & you know that he has made you out as the bad person, I personally feel you had every right to tell them the truth.
That is my opinion -- I feel you did the right thing -- Now if he cannot forgive you for what he feels is your betrayal to him, then again, like what was said before, he is being very self-centered -- From my perspective at least, I would say that should rightfuilly be his problem and not yours!!
I am sure you will bring this up to Harley.

This whole thing gets weird for me. I understand that he has not even asked you to forgive him for his A -- it is still ongoing - he says he wants out, yet makes no real effort to file for D ?? Then goes on about whatyou may say in a negative fashion to his parents -- to me, this would be important if you were still a couple, but if not, what's up with that? And he seems to want total access to your life, like he wants to be married, but live their & not share any intamcay or affection -- just abuse --
You have your hands full! -- I hope he agrees to see Harley -- if not, I would not be crushed - based on his pattern, I would think it typical that he not want to do that.

Do you cower down to your H about his anger towards you over you telling the truth to his parents? Admitt that you made some mistake and apologise? That would be very difficult for me -- I would then feel even more manipulated and all. But that may be me!
Perhaps Harley will have an idea to try & make it better for all concerned. You & H!

Best Wishes ...

<small>[ August 14, 2002, 08:39 AM: Message edited by: Hurrian Hoosier ]</small>

Hello HH! Yes, my H has grumbled that he doesn't need to speak to the doctor for more than 5 minutes...we'll see if he actually agrees. I've sent him some random appointment times. Keep your fingers crossed for me. Thanks for your support. I'm not really sure if Steve agreed with me telling his parents. However, it's something I really had to do. It might have been wrong for recovery? I don't know but I needed for them to know that he has ulterior motives that do not include my D or me which could seriously impact my D's wellbeing not to mention, everyone else. That was my motivation for telling them. However, he has grown much angrier and more resentful of me since the telling...

Hi GIC, So what I'm hearing is that Plan B is definitely not a good thing? And how is your situation?

HH, I don't feel bad about telling his parents. However, I have made it clear to my H that I did it for self protection. I did not want to hurt him. He's just reinforced that "now, he's never coming back"...etc.. as if he thought was before my telling? Probably just another excuse or way out...when I did tell his parents, I told them with the utmost of love for my H explaining that althought this is true, I have not given up. That H is a good person...etc.

Hugs