Venting..I've been doing a good job Plan A'ing. Result: WH and I have been friendly..no r or m talk or interest shown though. Today he asked me if he could take the kids to the company picnic. Yes, his OW, coworker, would be there. I completely lost it and yelled for awhile about her, which I haven't done. He said again that the OW had nothing to do with him leaving. Hello? I'm so frustrated. Why did he ask me when he knew I'd say no? He said he was sorry for asking. I did say if he wanted to revisit the nonrelative, opposite sex rule in our agreement, I would (no exposure to the kids for two yrs from separation). He said OK. I don't get it. Does he care so little? When I had told him that morning that I was sad about the kids being gone for three days (longest I've been apart from them) and asked if I could see them Sunday morning. He said yes, and suggested we all go out for breakfast. My WH is clueless, likes being "friends" and has no other interest in me. UG! I'm going back to Plan A and refocus, again.
-CS

Wh just picked-up kids. Asked if I was alright. I said, yes. He said, Are you sure? I said, yes. What does he think that I am going to crumble b/c he is a dink? I said, Are you alright? He shook his head yes and looked away. He asked four times where I was going/doing tonight. I never answered directly. Why does he get the info and I don't? He asked if I had on a new shirt, I said no, he said he'd never seen it. Hmnnn...afraid I'm spending too much money or just nosy? The tone between us has changed since this afternoon's fight. Oh well.
Tonight I looked at him and thought, "what the he## am I hanging on for?" History (18 yrs plus I've known him since we were 8), the kids, and I love him. But I have alot to offer someone-why do I allow him make me feel so undesirable? I am really close to being about done with it. He hasn't returned our paperwork to me so I can get it to lawyer, sign it, and file it (2 weeks and hasn't mentioned it). I am ready to get it done and then whatever happens...happens.Thanks for listening.
CS

CS; all of this just sounds like standard WS/BS "friction", probably generated by the WS fog and the BS impatience...don't take it so hard, WS is on another planet!

Hang in there, don't let it get to you so much, and Plan A!

Strength! Persistence!

Spacecase,
Thanks. I went out tonight and had a great time. I came home and thought, "I really don't need this anymore." It's sad. Today my daughter asked my parents if they are going to stay married. Bummer. I think WS and OW deserve each other...may they cheat in peace. I want a honest man who knows what mature love is..my WH isn't capable.
By the way, SC, I think you are doing a great job with your situation. You have persistence!
-CS

I've completely blown three weeks of good Plan A. After all of us going out for breakfast two days ago, I asked WH to go somewhere next weekend. He said he had plans but some other time,etc. It jsut set me off. Tonight I called him and did M/R talk. He got angry..said if he had wanted to come back or had even a glimmer of hope for our marriage-he would have told me. That I just called him tonight to start a fight and he just started screaming, etc. Told me how horrible I was to live with, etc. and that I just don't get it. OW is not missing the company picnic because she is on the planning committee. Isn't it ironic that she is planning the family picnic since she was involved in breaking ours up? I so wish I could call their work and vent. My kids can't go because of her.
I told him he wanted his family intact when he stopped by and he also wanted his single life. He said-that's it, the only time I'm stopping by is my assigned nights and to pick-up the kids. Blah, Blah.
I think maybe I sabotaged my efforts and our positive movement because he was getting too close again without commitment and it hurt too much. I am working on our paperwork and plan to have everything separate by next month. He, of course, isn't in a hurry to do, but he isn't the one that still hurts everytime we see each other.
He told me that he didn't love the OW but I asked him if he'd tell me if he did...and he said probably not. What?
I am so frustrated with myself and his wishy-washyness. I feel like he felt like maybe I was slipping away a bit and started coming closer again. Going out for breakfast, stopping by extra, etc. but still no talk of any future except our separate plans.
I have probably blown my three weeks of friendliness back about four months. I feel like after almost six months and not once mentioning coming back, it's really done. His kinder actions have been guilt related and for the kids. We haven't made any progress in six months. I don't think there's any future here. He just keeps throwing the same things in my face..I don't have a job, I was miserable, I didn't care when he was down, etc.
Should I just give it up?
CS

Hi, cANT SLEEP, IT SEEMS LIKE i AM reading my story when I read yours... I pla n a for a while then get soooo angry that there is no movement for real recovery that I major lb, etc. it seems a cycle... my ws says he cant live with me, wants to be friends, etc. just like yours it sounds... my h had 2 ows though, first a married/ or not? used to be lesbian dart playing girl.... who acts single even if married to a man, who knows about this dike? who knows? she is semi attractive but though like... psycho, as I a m femminine and no way like her at all.. then he moves on to the maid... my hs issues are coupled with alcoholism too... so it is nuts.

I too have an 18 yr history with this man. I have recent weight issues driving me insane- meed to lose 30-40 lbs.

I am sick, sick and sicker, it seems nothing works in this horrid situation.
Hug s to you my friend, I know it is horrid.. this stuff started for me about this time last yr.

Honey

Hello Can't Sleep - you know I can't tell you what to do no one can do only you - but I have been experiencing the same thing and am still living it since last October - but I basically made a choice and moved forward. OK first off my husband is also 37 so I am thinking that this is definately an early midlife crisis. But I go through the same thing - it is kind of like he has his apartment but he still can come home and feel welcome when he is feeling lonely or needs his family life and I am letting him do it. I still love him and I tried so hard but I could not live in the limbo anymore and I moved forward with the divorce - we have filed jointly and we have a court date on 9/18 - I am so sad somedays and other days I hope and pray he will wake up and realize that he is making the worst decision of his life but you know I know that isn't happening now. I would still be waiting for him to make a move forward and I just couldn't live like that. I am slowly starting to pull away. But I still have my days when I call him up and freak out about what he is doing and who he is doing it with. But he likes to come over and hang around - I figure once we go to court and things are finalized I am going to put an end to our buddy buddy relationship because it hurts me to much - he wanted a divorce and I deserve to finally be happy. Now if I can do this it will be great but it is so hard when you are with someone everyday and you basically wake up one day and your world is shattered and you don't know how or why it happened.... Good luck - stay strong -

Honey and MAW-
Thanks for your replies. It is so helpful to talk to someone else experiencing this. I am so confused-angry-hurt. I suspect MAW that I'll be following your actions. Once the paperwork is done, things will be pretty done (the actual divorce can't be filed until March but the rest can). I talked to a couple on the phone tonight and they both indicated that I sounded like I was chasing him with the things that I send and that WH's actions really indicate that he just wants to be friends because it is easier on the kids. I wish I could let go easier and truly mean it. I really would like to move far away and never see him again but I have to see him lots because of the kids.
Honey-I hope things start going better for you too.
I'm sure after the things I said tongiht about the OW, they are bonded even closer.
What is wrong with me that most people can stay in Plan A and I can't?
CS

I really could use some more feedback and insight and thoughts about my actions/WH's actions. Where do you think this is going? I am at that point again that I feel like holding out hope is more dangerous to me than giving up.
Thanks,
CS

Can't Sleep - like I said I can't give advice but I can kind of give you the insight into what I am dealing with - Well my husband came by yesterday to watch the kids he is on vacation - they did nothing all day because the girls didn't want to. so duh make them do something you know... Now today he came over again and he is going to take them school shopping to buy them sneakers - nothing to tough you know - so this morning - I asked him if he missed us and he said sometimes - then I asked him if he wanted to come home and he said no--- I was watching Jenny Jones and it was about infidelity and he is like wow you must have loved this show... See now to the public eye people who don't know we are getting divorced would think we are still together - we are not intimate but I am sure he would be if I wanted to - he hugs me, gives me kisses but sometimes he is uncomfortable - but it is so wierd because he justs comes in and makes him self comfortable and hangs around - he thinks nothing of coming over to see the kids versus taking them to his apartment or out to do something. I have decided this morning that I have to start acting like we are getting a divorce - I cannot continue to let him be comfortable in my home the one he chose to leave. I still don't know what happened - I don't know what the future holds but I know that I have to get on with my life - I can't keep trying to hold onto something that he doesn't want anymore - I deserve better. I am thinking that one day he will really wake up and realize he had it all and threw it all away - I have been in so much pain for so long.. I think the key here is to just work on ourselves and not worry about them anymore - And I could never do Plan A - I still am making the little remarks and that I believe is because I am hurt - he hurt me - somedays I just want to rub it in - and I think that is only human....

MAW: Thanks for your comments. I see the similarities. I got my paperwork to WH today and told him that I wanted it back by Friday. I'm done with the ties between us. We will put the house on the market Oct. 1. WH is so far in the clouds that I'll be 80 b/4 I see any movement toward me. He still denies that OW had anything to do with his leaving. I told him that I was calling work and telling them why my kids couldn't attend his company picnic. He completely freaked out-called and sent e-mail. Guess he mostly cares about his job. I didn't call. I took today off and sat around and tried to regroup. I need to refocus and be a happier mom. Hope you are feeling strong-I'll think we'll need it.
CS

Can't Sleep - you know it is funny somedays I feel so strong and other days I feel - wow what am I doing. I have decided to keep the house because frankly me and the kids deserve to live in the house we built only two years ago - my problem is my other woman lives next door or there could have been two I am not sure - but my husband always tells me that his affair has nothing to do with not wanting to be married anymore - he has shifted all of the blame to me - from my family won't accept him to I will never forgive him and he won't live that way for the rest of his life. I have put all of the bills into the mortgage so now I am 37 almost 38 with two kids a huge mortgage a cat, and somedays I am extremely overwhelmed. But I know I can make it on my own - I just need to convince myself that I don't want my husband anymore or that better he doesn't deserve me. I totally agree with you I would not want my kids with the woman who whatever they is the root of all problems - I don't know about you but my marriage never had any problems until he decided to have an affair - and it isn't fair - Do you really have to sell your house??? You stick by your decision not to let the kids go !!! Our WS need to once and for all stop thinking about themselves for a change - though they don't think they ever do that. My husband wanted to claim one of the kids on his tax return and I told him no - he said it was his right I said I don't care let the judge decide - and he actually had the nerve to say to me - Isn't it ok if I think about myself for a change???? I almost died - this from the man who had an affair - spoke to the woman next door on the phone behind my back for over a year - lied to me for a year - I mean give me a break........

MAW-
Yes, I do need to sell the house-for financial and emotional reasons. I need a fresh start and I can't afford it. No, it doesn't seem fair but it is my reality. My WH and I did have problems before the A-some things that I should have changed and he needed to change too. But like yours, WH places all the blame on me and is unwilling to give it a try again. And, of course, the OW has nothing to do with it. Today I just feel sad and defeated. I know I can make it...I'm just sad. I feel like the OW has outplayed me and I quit.
-CS
-CS

CS-

Know what you are going through..even from a man's point of view. I once was the WS and when I "saw the light of day" my W ran the other way...emotionally...then physically. After trying her a** off to get me home (mentally and emotionally), she couldn't trust me and then had an A of her own. Now after 1 year of dealing with d-day after d-day (see below) I now cannot trust her <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Ironic isn't it!!

I even went so far as to tap my home phone so I could find out how she truly feels <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> ?? I did my own plan A for a year and had to force her to make a decision by "taking myself out of her 3-some game". Now I am unsure if she chose me out of security needs (money/health) or she really wants to try.

I told her last night she needed to talk about her feelings with her IC cause she doesn't talk to me about them. EVERY time when she was caught she would say "it's over..I love you" but would tell mom she was confused and then after d-day #6, told me she was confused.

There are days when I wish she would have divorced me when she filed (twice) but when I talk about it, I feel better...(relief??).

Waiting for #7???

Doogie,
I hear you. It's frustrating. I don't forsee my WH ever seeing the light but I am glad you did and I bet your W will too. She's still hanging in there. My WH just goes along with all the changes and doesn't seem to care. I am really trying to refocus on me.
Thanks,
CS

WH sent me an e-mail after I threatened to call his work today and tell them why his kids can't go to the picnic. He said he was sorry things didn't work out between us. He is happy for me that I look great... That I'll find someone who is better than him...that he tries to do the right thing with the kids and he's sorry he is such a bad person...that I was unwilling to give him what he wanted for too long and that I'd never know how bad that made him feel..(he can never go back) and he wanted to send the e-mail to say that he cared.
Hmnn...first written expression of emotion in five months and the sad thing, I think it was written so I wouldn't call work.
Someone tell me what to do. I told him today that I was completely through with him...and I guess I need to stick with what I said. It's such a waste of so many years. I just feel sick about it. Don't you think just once he might have said he wanted to come back? One false recovery? I feel like my whole marriage was a joke. As I said earlier, I am just sad today and wishing for a miracle.
-CS

OK Cant sleep no one won - everyone lost - what kind of relationship can a WS have with an OW lets be real - the relationship is based on lies and cheating - would you ever trust anyone that did this to you - I went to my womans group tonight that meets every third Tuesday and there are alot of different problems going on there and basically my therapist told me once I go to court I will feel free - I think most of my problem is that I am tired of trying to hold onto something that I am the only one trying to hold onto - I know it is very frustrating - and actually if you would like to email me at anytime I wouldn't mind I love talking to people in this same rotten situation as me - mimiw64@yahoo.com feel free anytime you are feeling down - someday we are going to be happy again - without them and are they really going to be happy - I mean they have to live with the pain that they caused us - even if they pretend they don't recongnize it - they know - I mean I went from this normal wife and mother - to this person who has a womans group, is seeing a therapist one on one, is taking anitdepressants, sometimes sleeping pills - my self esteem is so screwed up and he has to live with the knowledge that he did this to me. You may have contributed to problems in the marriage but you did not make him cheat and betray you... Someday we will be happy - I am hoping and praying .. Feel free to email me anytime I am no authority but I surely know where you are coming from... Mimi

Can't sleep,
I am so sorry for what is happening. I know what it is like to kick yourself in the [censored] when you LB because you have just had it.
I wonder, when did we all become so defined by our spouses. Why do we feel like we are the garbage, easily thrown out when the truth is, wayward spouses shouldn't have the privledge of being loved by people as amazing as us.
I know the panicky scared feelings you're probably having right now.
It stinks to feel so powerless about your own fate.
You sound like an amazing person. I don't know you personally but I have followed your every post. Try to remember that if he doesn't come back. In the end, he is the one that lost, not you.
Hang in there sweety and keep posting.
Hugs,
Layli

CS-
I had to jump in. I don't think my comments will be too enlightening, but it may help those of us in the same boat.
I am continuing to wonder why I keep that glimmer of hope going- it seems so futile...I really wonder what the realistic odds are for those of us with spouses in the fog.
I continue a pretty good approach without LBs and try to minimize contact with my WH- BUT I AM GETTING NOWHERE. He continues to be distant with me and only speaks thru the kids or our sitter.
It's hard to know if this is the right approach or should i just give up.
My mind says quit, yet my heart wants to keep trying. I might as well hit my head against a wall.
I know this didn't give you any direct advice, but I wanted to empathize with you.

MAW: Thanks for your reply. I guess no-one wins-logically-but it doesn't really feel that way. Glad you are taking such good care of yourself. It is frustrating!
Layli: Read your post. SOunds like you are thinking about moving on. Hard decison. I don't think my spouse defines me but our situation takes up most of my thoughts. No, it's not fair.
PB: Nothing may seem like it's happening between you and WH but don't you feel better about your actions? I think it feels better to be control of myself.
Thinking about you all...
Update: Talked to WH this morning. He was perfectly amicable. I asked him to watch the kids tonight. He said he'd cancel his plans and watch the kids. He said the separation agreement terms sound OK.
HOW CAN SOMEONE JUST STOP HAVING FEELINGS? Do you think his e-mail indicates anything one way or another?
-CS