My wife(WS) stopped by to sign some papers so we could refinances our house. At first I was ok with her being here and I was nice to my wife even though we are in Plan B. I choose to Plan A her if we did see each other due to finances or some other important reason. We sat down and she was filling out her portion of the paper work. I tried so hard but just seeing my wife for the fist time in a few weeks brought tears to my eyes. I couldn’t stop it and I tried my best to stop crying. The part that drives me up the wall is that I was very emotional and my wife showed nothing. She was so cold when she could just see on my face that I am just heart broken. Of course since the tears were flowing she was asking me if I was ok and I did tell her this whole thing is very hard on me. I told her there are a lot of things I don’t understand and a lot of questions that haven’t been answered. I probably screwed up about letting her know how I feel but hey I am human. The part that was bad was during the conversation she told me she doesn’t feel the same about me any more. That hasn’t been there for a while and she doesn’t think it is coming back. At one point she told me she never could see herself with me again in a relationship. My wife said she just wants to be alone and there is no body else in her life as far as another man. I did say there had to be another man because why else would she be doing this. She went of saying again there is no other man and that she just wants to be alone.
I really didn’t appreciate my wife never showing any emotion and that is probably because she is in a different spot then me. Second, I don’t appreciate the fact that she told me she never could see us as a couple again. Third she said those feelings that should be there towards me as a wife aren’t there.
So I want someone to be honest with me, is this still somewhat of fog talk? Shoot from the hip because at this point I don’t need any more smoke blown my way because my wife has done a good job at it. I think to myself my wife is just enjoying her freedom of being alone and that she can do what she wants. My wife did state that right now she just wants to be alone. I did notice she doesn’t wear her ring any more but that didn’t bother me too much because even when she did wear it she still got involved with another man. Should I say to my wife we both need to wear our rings or just drop it and let it be? I know the ring doesn’t make the marriage at all but the relationship it self makes the marriage.
I am just venting again because it was a hard evening. I was hoping for my wife to be different but that didn’t happen. We will both see each other again at the end of the month at her brothers wedding. After that I have to kick in a real hard Plan B on not seeing each other. This will really tell if she does miss me or not.
To my surprise when my wife left and she was driving home she did call me. She was crying which she wasn’t doing when she was here. She said she isn’t doing any of this on purpose and she does feel bad for doing this to me. The conversation was short but it was nice in a way to hear she was at least human about what she is doing to me. Too bad she doesn’t show that more often. Too bad she doesn’t try to be my wife any more… Too bad, right???

((( C-G )))

Tears are honest.
You did fine.

Feel better.

Pepper <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

(((CG))))

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> So I want someone to be honest with me, is this still somewhat of fog talk? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think its fog. The reason I think its fog is:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> To my surprise when my wife left and she was driving home she did call me. She was crying which she wasn&#8217;t doing when she was here. She said she isn&#8217;t doing any of this on purpose and she does feel bad for doing this to me. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think that bit isn't fog.

I sure hope Orchid reads this because I believe she's the expert.

I was going to say that it seems like Fog still for several reasons; she's still not filing for D, and her crying from the car shows she cares...probably held it in while there, but broke down when she left.

Hang in there while you still have the energy and desire. Sorry for your tough day!

Hey there confused_guy,

Tears are fine, tears are GOOD. Much better than keeping it bottled up.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">...tried my best to stop crying. The part that drives me up the wall is that I was very emotional and my wife showed nothing. She was so cold when she could just see on my face that I am just heart broken....The part that was bad was during the conversation she told me she doesn’t feel the same about me any more....She said she isn’t doing any of this on purpose and she does feel bad for doing this to me. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Even though I am a FWS, and you are a MBS, my heart goes out to you, because I can really relate to how you are feeling and your wife's behaviour.

I am the emotional one all the time when I see my H, and he is always stone-faced and unemotional. He repeats over and over that he no longer loves me and wonders if he ever will again. He even also tells me how sorry he is that all of this has to happen (our separation).

I do think it's a very good sign that your wife still cares about you if she was crying in the car on the way home. She can only maintain a stiff upper lip for so long. She's still human.

I hope it's the fog. I hope my H is still in his fog from anger. I hope for both of us they find their way out of it soon though!

Take care,

Jen

((((confused_guy)))))), I am so sorry for your pain. It seems the pain multiplies when it seems you are the only one in it, doesn't it??

I think that it is very encouraging that your wife called you when she left. She probably didn't want to say that to you there because she did not want you to see her cry.

My WH told me a couple of weeks ago that he has been miserable for the past year even though he has put on a "happy face" for me.

Stay strong, OK? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Confused Guy,

((((((confused guy))))))) Stay strong, you are not alone. I have been separated 4 months with my WW. The feeling of being alone is a real pain. Tonight,I broke down and cried too...

Take care

CG,

U R human and it showed. That is not a bad thing. That is a good thing. It shows you have a heart, conscience and basically still 100% human.

Now when someone who witnesses another's pain can still be cold hearted and then throw 'more salt on the open and oozing wound', then you can see by this description that you are still dealing with someone who is not only still in the fog and babbling but whose mind appears to be have been abducted of sorts. I mean is that inhumane? Yes and that is what many a WS execute.

They cut at the heart whenever the opportunity arises. So for now, realize that the person you are dealing with is babbling (ie: "I just want to be alone", "there is no one else", etc.) You already know about the EA/PA, then consider it babble if it does not make sense. I don't mean you have to like what she says but you do have to realize when it makes sense vs. babble. Any conversation that leaves you scratiching your head is basically babble.

Ok, now human vs alien. How to handle? Well you are in plan B so that is a good thing. Now put on your armor (MB stuff/plan B, counsel with Steve or Jennifer, venting here, etc) and protect your vulnerable points (pocketbook and heart). OK? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

take care,
L.

((((((((((((((confused_guy)))))))))))))) A BIG hug! FROM THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WORLD!
I know this must be soooo hard for you but your W ringing you like that must mean something positive...I just wish that my H would pick up the phone & ring me i would be elated & will wait for that day to arive I am sure it wil soon.

Please hang in there it's a bumpy ride I know & WS come out with all sorts of crap & sometimes it's just plain hard to hold yourself together.. So you cried you are only human as are all of us you didn't turn into a raging lunatic (she sure wouldn't have phoned you up if you had) SO THATS POSITIVE! please hang in there as long as you can & come here & vent & get ideas there are sooo many great people here with ideas I find it a great place to come when I am looking for answers & there is usually someone around with some words of wisdom although the weekends do get a bit quite we are all here to prop one another up when the going gets tough. Do you write a journal??? I have found it a great help WHY? well I go back over it now & again & can see just how far I have come since my WS & I were majorly LB one another if I hadn't had this site & Steve Harley to counsell me I would be LB all over the place by now & that would sure give my H something to justify his actions but I refuse to do it now & am a much better person for it. Counselling with Steve was the best money i ever invested in myself in just 2 sessions he had me on the right track which is a totally different one than i would have been taking by now H & OW would be feeling much better if they could only get me to LB. Anyway sorry to have rambled on so long but just wanted you to know that I was thinking of you heaps, now put a big smile on ya face for us grab yaself a beer or go & do something you enjoy. I know that my H is way confused now that I am not LB & seem to be doing stuff for me.... Let us know how you are doing eh?? CYA later

Dear CG

I am sorry to hear of your pain, and I don't think it is wrong to cry at all.

Although I am new to MB and my H and are in the very early stages pos D-day, I am the WS, and can tell you that sometimes, when my poor BS is very distraught or angry, I just don't know how to deal with his pain or upset. I love and care for him, but always think, not enough though to have done this terrible thing to him. When I see him sooo distressed or sooo angry, I just tend to close down emotionally, because I feel desperate myself am trying to protect myself, and can't reach out to him for fear of loosing it completely myself. Usually afterwards when he is calmer, I too get upset and tell him again how sorry I am for the pain and upset I have caused him.

I am confused, is it foggy here - certainly. I don't know what to do for the best. Sometimes I want to run as far away as I can and other times I want things to be back to how they used to be. Would I rather be by myself than with my H - at times definitely. Does that mean that I don't want to be with my H, not at all!!!!

I once heard that for women they would rather be single than in a bad relationship (I am not suggesting your M is bad, but it is obviously difficult at the moment) - that may be hard for you to think that your WS would rather be by herself than thinking there is someone else or she may not want to be with you. I have had a difficult R with my H at times, and at the moment, I sometimes think it would be easier for both of us to be alone because it is so hard and draining and feels so damaging to both of us. Again, I am not suggesting that this is what your W feels, but am only telling you how I feel.

I don't know if any of this helps or not, but try and stay positive and strong. In the same way that it is difficult for me to help my H through his pain and anger, it is difficult for him to help me through certain things too.

Confused,

You need to get a game plan . Crying in front of her is not a good idea. You need to consistently show her that you will be just fine without her. You do that by acting as if everything is just fine the way things are. Act happy.

Dont beat yourself up over the crying, but you cant afford to do it again. She cant feel love if she has pity for you.

Your answer is the same as it is for everybody else. Act happy, let her contact you, keep the conversations brief, no talks about the relationship, and agree with her that maybe she is right, maybe you two do need space, maybe this is for the best.

When you agree with her, it takes away her desire to defend her position, and releases her negative attitude. Be consistent is this. Quit letting her know you want answers to everything. Just accept it as it is and act like you are perfectly ok. You are a big boy and you can handle it. These kinds of attitudes are what gets the other person to come back.

Keepmvn4wrd....
I am not saying I act when my wife is around me however if she never saw the pain she has caused me, well she would be ok with the situation. I don't think my wife should just think that she hasn't caused me any pain and that all of this is just ok. I know I didn't do the best job by crying in front of her but I am not sure I can act that I am ok with all of this. If my wife thinks I am just ok with all of this she would be on cloud nine. My wife has been eating her cake for awhile and I am not sure I should feed her the cake myself.
I am going to try to do a stronger Plan B however I know I will see her at her brothers wedding. I am going to try my best to be there for her brother but at the same time I don't think I can just act like I am all ok. Deep down inside I am not ok and if I act too much my wife is going to be like oh my husband is ok now I won't feel so bad so I will file now. I am not saying you are wrong on what you said but I am saying why should I act one way when I really don't feel it?

CG; I'm afraid KM4W is right, you do need to "act as if" everything is fine, even if inside you are hurting badly.

Which is NOT to say that it isn't OK for it to happen; it is. We're all human. We have to get back up, dust ourselves off, and keep going.

I think most veterans here will agree that it is much more effective to show the WS that we don't need them, that we're moving on rather than anything else.

Hang in there, be strong for the wedding, try to show her you are 100% OK, moving on, and see what happens!

CG,

I'm so sorry and I know it sounds like tired cliche but I do feel your pain.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> those feelings that should be there towards me as a wife aren’t there.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> She said she isn’t doing any of this on purpose and she does feel bad for doing this to me. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My FWH did and said the same things. On several different occasions I cried so much I had to run to the bathroom to throw up. It amazed, confused, and insulted me that he could be so stoic and cold at times like that. How do you watch someone's heart break and not feel anything?

I'm not sure about the details of your situation but I'd like to share this with you...

When I found out there was an OW (although I didn't know who at first) my H said he was in love with her and wanted to be with her. All through a very brief separation, lies about NC, etc., I repeatedly asked him where we/I went wrong, because MM don't have As out of the blue... there's always something a WS is not getting. He lied at first saying that I couldn't give him what he wanted because what he wanted was her. I kept at it (I did a sorry a$$ Plan A), and finally he told me that some of his ENs that weren't being met had more to do with my "personality and unchangable character" traits than what she was giving him. He made me feel like such a loser. I was so angry with him for not giving me any say at all in the dissolution of our M. I wanted to give him what he needed... I love him and I don't want him to ever be in pain or confused because of me. He kept telling me there was nothing I could do. He loved me but wasn't "in love with me"... the "feelings were gone"... at one point he said the OW had "moved away", but he was still insistant upon leaving me 8 mo. pregnant, even though he had previously stated that "if I can't be with her I want to be with you, if I can't be with you I want to be with her"... said he " just wanted to be alone"...let me tell you CG, the fog was THICK!!!

One day I was so broken and unable to function, I curled up on the kitchen floor, big as a house, and cried until my 7 year old had to call his dad at work and ask him to "come home, I think Mommy is sick." It bring tears to my eyes that I couldn't be strong enough for my kids. Anyway, he came home that day (day I found out OW was an employee who was smiling in my face from day one), sat down at a compelte loss and started to spill it all. Every EN he had came out that day. Of course, in the midst of my nervous breakdown, all I could do was SHUT UP and listen to everything he had to say. That day he also made the decision to stay home and work on our M. It turns out that being able to tell me the truth about everything he felt without being judged or attacked was so cathartic for him, it rekindled a sliver of hope that he hadn't had for almost a year. He felt accepted in his entirety... flaws and all for the first time in our M.

Recovery is hard... I still cry every day... trying to focus on the kids, rebuilding my self esteem and meeting his ENs... still trying to get the echo of all of those awful things he said out of my head. He says now that his lack of compassion during the A was his way of dealing with the guilt. If he convinced himself that his feelings for me were gone, then what he was doing didn't seem so bad. He also admitted that any impulse he had to give up the OW and recommit was overshadowed by the assumption that we'd never make it past what he had done anyway... that I would make him PAY so dearly he'd still be miserable... so what would have been the point.

Like I said, I don't know all the details of your situation, but I can tell you that in my case, he opened up the door when I least expected it. I gave him what he needed by doing nothing at all.

I guess this is the first time I ever felt comfortable giving this detailed a version here at MB. I pray it helps you. I think you've been through enough. I think we all have. Your WW included. Give her what she needs, however long it takes you to find out... pre or post D... maybe no D at all... and know that you did your best as a H.

Oh Confused.....I SO understand how you are feeling - not that that helps you. Theoretically, WS and I are in recovery, BUT, my WS does not understand why he cannot still "chat" with OW and why it hurts me so much when he does. On Friday, I walked in on him "chatting" with her and fell apart, shaking, tears, the works. He kept telling me he didn't understand why I was so upset. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Brit's Brat/BS-41
WH-43
DS-10 months
Theoretically in recover.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by confused_guy:
<strong>So I want someone to be honest with me, is this still somewhat of fog talk? Shoot from the hip because at this point I don’t need any more smoke blown my way because my wife has done a good job at it. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I hope this comes out the right way - since I am going against a steady stream of common advice. I don't know your situation, and can't hazard a guess as to what *your* wife may or may not have meant.

In my first marriage, I was the one who ended it. There was no other man, no affair, no terrible activity on the part of my husband. He was a nice guy, doing the best he knew how. There was a realization that I was unhappy, and had a right to be happy, and that after giving it my best shot for 16 years, I was not going to be happy in that relationship. In reading your post, I realize I must have seemed cruel to him. I was not emotional, I was very matter of fact. He cried, he asked what he could do. But by that point, there was really nothing that he could do. He was devastated (or, as devastated as someone like him could be).

My point is that maybe your wife is in a fog; and maybe she has checked out of the marriage and is at peace with herself for doing so. I don't think there is ever a way to really know, but I wish you peace and happiness in finding your path.

I guess one thing that just scares the you know what out of me is that with being strong when I do see my wife, well I sort of feel like I have lost the battle and she has one. The few words she has told me is that "it will get better with time." "You will move on one day." With being strong I feel as if my wife is getting exactly what she wanted in the end. For me to just accept the entire situation and to move on. I guess this is the reason why I haven't choosen to act like none of this has hurt me. With doing that I feel my wife will have no problems just going oh he is ok, well I can move on. Shouldn't my wife have to learn to live with the guilt and the pain she has caused me? Why shouldn't she have to live with knowing she walked away from me and she broke my heart? Doesn't it seem like I will be the one giving my wife what she wants? I hear what everyone is saying about being strong but at the same time I have the doubts that I listed above.
I guess one reality is thinking that if my wife thinks I am strong that it will be easier for her to just double time it even faster away from me. The sad part is she broke my heart and now there is that big hole in it and it hurts.....

c_g,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> The few words she has told me is that "it will get better with time." "You will move on one day." With being strong I feel as if my wife is getting exactly what she wanted in the end. For me to just accept the entire situation and to move on. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh this is eerie. Those are the exact words my H liked to repeat over and over early on, within the first 6 weeks after D-day.

I pretty much agree with the continued need to show a strong front though. I simply tried to keep a stiff upper lip when he said this, and emphatically said, "No it won't get better with time unless you and I work things out. I don't want to move on one day. I want to spend the rest of my life with the man I love." Maybe try that approach. Somehow my H stopped saying those two phrases after he got that response from me over and over. So at least my research shows that it has indeed worked on one person!

So keep your chin up, and try to keep the tears from flowing until after an occasion when you see your wife.

Take care,

Jen

Just wanted to say I'm sorry for your pain